So are you single? Argos style....

Sardonicat

loalae wrote: »

Well I was being sarcastic and I think sardonicat may have been as well.

Do you really think that people lower down in organisations shouldn't have access to phone numbers? The vast majority or delivery drivers do not do this kind of thing and, in my view, it's not too much to expect a worker to not use a phone number provided for one purpose to get a date.

Eh yeah. That was sarcasm.

Feisar

loalae wrote: »

Well I was being sarcastic and I think sardonicat may have been as well.

Do you really think that people lower down in organisations shouldn't have access to phone numbers? The vast majority or delivery drivers do not do this kind of thing and, in my view, it's not too much to expect a worker to not use a phone number provided for one purpose to get a date.

I don't know about who should have phone numbers. Anyone that does should 1, need it to carry out their job and 2, be vetted. Everyone cries "data protection" however our data is scattered all over the place.
And yer man is stupid and weird.

Feisar

Sardonicat wrote: »

Eh yeah. That was sarcasm.

Yea I got that.

JayRoc

Texting a woman you know hasn't got your number with "Hey"....and then not following it up for hours after she asks who you are? That is the bit I find objectionable about this.

It's like he was trying to come off as a weirdo.

B.A._Baracus

hynesie08 wrote: »

I'm guessing we know each other? And since I doubt you actually have the balls to tell me who you are, let's just stick you on ignore......

Balls?
Well im not that much of an idiot to use my surname as a boards.ie username :pac:

Truthvader

Sardonicat wrote: »

Imagine if he was a stalker with sinister intent and she'd just shrugged it off and didn't report him?

What does this mean? Imagine if he was a millionaire, a fridge , a jahadi. Meaningless fantasy

What happened to "no thanks I have a boyfriend/ I'm washing my hair but thanks for the compliment" All the other fantasy fear mongering is delusional.

What is not a fantasy is the reaction of this girl who has set about trying to ruin someones life lose him his job and create as much nastiness as possible because someone asked her out. Who does this? Sorry still a vindictive bitch as far as I am concerned.

Sardonicat

Truthvader wrote: »

What does this mean? Imagine if he was a millionaire, a fridge , a jahadi. Meaningless fantasy

What happened to "no thanks I have a boyfriend/ I'm washing my hair but thanks for the compliment" All the other fantasy fear mongering is delusional.

What is not a fantasy is the reaction of this girl who has set about trying to ruin someones life lose him his job and create as much nastiness as possible because someone asked her out. Who does this? Sorry still a vindictive bitch as far as I am concerned.

It's equally fantasy to explain it as chancing his arm for a date or explaining his actions to be someone smitten with love taking his only chance. We don't know.

What happened to expecting employees to uphold company policy and procedure? What if he'd flounted a different kind of procedure and just dumped the item outside her front door and left it unattended to be damaged or stolen. Would she still be ruining his life if she reported that breech? Or is it just that she wasn't overwhelmed with delight that this individual breached policy to contact her personally?

Sardonicat

JayRoc wrote: »

Texting a woman you know hasn't got your number with "Hey"....and then not following it up for hours after she asks who you are? That is the bit I find objectionable about this.

It's like he was trying to come off as a weirdo.

Well, he definitely managed to come across as an immature idiot.

Truthvader

Sardonicat wrote: »

It's equally fantasy to explain it as chancing his arm for a date or explaining his actions to be someone smitten with love taking his only chance. We don't know.

What happened to expecting employees to uphold company policy and procedure? What if he'd flounted a different kind of procedure and just dumped the item outside her front door and left it unattended to be damaged or stolen. Would she still be ruining his life if she reported that breech? Or is it just that she wasn't overwhelmed with delight that this individual breached policy to contact her personally?

WTF? No fantasy of any kind required. Man asks girl out. Girl not interested. Endy story. No hysterical victim speculation required

Sardonicat

Truthvader wrote: »

WTF? No fantasy of any kind required. Man asks girl out. Girl not interested. Endy story. No hysterical victim speculation required

He broke GDPR. She reported him for that. His rule breaking, his consequences. End of.

pgj2015

I was just thinking its funny how customers send these kind of message or more extreme one and think its perfectly ok. one customer text me asking me was I interested in fun, another one gave me directions to her bedroom.

Daragh1980

I recently saw what looked like a mild disgreement over Covid 19 quickly escalate into a report to employer

Daragh1980

Daragh1980 wrote: »

I recently saw what looked like a mild disgreement over Covid 19 quickly escalate into a report to employer

Check out Twitter @janeruffino
twitter.com/janeruffino/status/1293860224386977794

vikings2012

The driver is stupid and a creep.

Probably not his first time doing this. He took the time to save her number and most likely her name, address and any other information available.

If it was my girlfriend, sister, daughter etc that this happened to, I would be very annoyed and angry.

Nobody knows the motives of this man and what he is capable of doing.

Sure it could of been a laugh or a joke with the Argos lads but he just crossed the line contacting her.

Costly mistake for this man. Let’s hope he learns a lesson from this.

I don’t believe posting the messages/comment to Facebook was the correct course of action. She should of sent a private email or called into the store to directly communicate the issue and voice her concerns.

FunLover18

Lundstram wrote: »

Taking a stand would be to ignore, block the number and move on with your life.

This is just attention seeking.

No, taking a stand is making someone face the consequences of their actions.

Rick_

I had a very attractive guy once deliver me an item from Argos. He texted me from a mobile, though not sure if it was his or a company mobile to tell me about the expected delivery time and apologised for delay as he didn't know the area and got lost and was also stuck in traffic. When he arrived I instantly noticed how attractive he was. We started chatting generally and we shared a few jokes, which eventually turned into very mild flirty exchanges and were clearly checking each other out and there was plenty of smiling and eye contact. Almost as if we were trying to tell each other "hey, I think you're really attractive". But that was it, nothing more came of it. He headed off and continued with his work. I actually would have been fine with him messaging me again and asking about meeting up for a coffee or the likes. Though I can understand how some people would find that odd or creepy. Especially if there wasn't that kind of build up or rapport between them before he decided to just message her out of the blue and ask if she was single.

I think people instantly jumping to "he's obviously a rapist / sex offender" or "he might react badly if she said no" to be slightly jumping the gun and going a bit extreme on the judgements. He made a silly, unprofessional mistake that will likely cost him his job, no need to label him as a dodgy psychopath as a result. Everyone is so quick to rush out and be offended these days and expecting the world to compensate them. I'm sure there's plenty of people who are in relationships or married to people who they met through one of their work encounters. They would have known where the other lived, and would have had to contact them personally and not through work channels (or maybe they did). Suppose they are all creepy sex criminals too?

The guy was wrong, and I understand the girl's discomfort. Whether she should feel unsafe depends to some extent on his character, which we don't know. I am also uncomfortable with crucifying him on Facebook.

It's also notable how the definition of 'trauma' has been widened so much. I can see how it was appropriate for, say, shell-shocked soldiers returning from the Somme Offensive. Be interesting to see where this all goes.

littlevillage

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Still think he should have went old school and just asked her out in person, rather than being a big pu$$ie and texting her after he leaves!

And the added bonus, she can't put it on bookface if you choose this option.

Everyone is so wrapped up in technology these days, people have actually lost the ability to communicate properly face-to-face.

Yeah, I agree with this post. If they had a few words when he was at her door, maybe a bit of eye contact etc.... then that was the time to casually ask her for a date.... not later on, and not in a text.

hynesie08

vikings2012 wrote: »

I don’t believe posting the messages/comment to Facebook was the correct course of action. She should of sent a private email or called into the store to directly communicate the issue and voice her concerns.

She apparently couldn't find a complaints number and their live chat wouldn't help her. Maybe they should have better customer service, and less creepy drivers.....

Tell me how

FunLover18 wrote: »

It's extremely creepy behaviour, fair play to her for taking a stand.

If you don't think it's creepy take a step back and genuinely consider how weird you'd feel if you got an unsolicited text from a random delivery man asking about your relationship status, knowing he knows where you live. If you're a man, don't gender flip it, imagine getting the text from another man. It's fúcking weird and there's no getting around it.

If this is the case, then every unsolicited enquiry has been creepy since day dot.
Text is simply a 21st century way of communication.

Should every guy living in an estate or apartment block with someone they find attractive rule out ever asking them out because if they are not interested, the fact that they know where the person lives could be making her uncomfortable?

I do appreciate it was not best practice and he should have introduced himself better, but if this is what constitutes creepy then maybe what you are suggesting is that arranged marriages or chaperoned first dates is an appropriate method to try to find a partner.

Church on Tuesday

hynesie08 wrote: »

She apparently couldn't find a complaints number and their live chat wouldn't help her. Maybe they should have better customer service, and less creepy drivers.....

You really need to stop the White Knight nonsense, it's not furthering the discussion in any way.

hynesie08

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

You really need to stop the White Knight nonsense, it's not furthering the discussion in any way.

Giving both sides of the story is white Knight ing now......... Cool

hynesie08

hynesie08 wrote: »

Giving both sides of the story is white Knight ing now......... Cool

What age are you, out of interest?

hynesie08

Deleted User wrote: »

What age are you, out of interest?

Mid 30s, again maybe I would have had a different view 10 years ago or if I didn't work with so many girls in their early 20s who tell me stories like this all the time..... Maybe I just don't understand the world anymore..

FunLover18

Tell me how wrote: »

If this is the case, then every unsolicited enquiry has been creepy since day dot.
Text is simply a 21st century way of communication.

Should every guy living in an estate or apartment block with someone they find attractive rule out ever asking them out because if they are not interested, the fact that they know where the person lives could be making her uncomfortable?

I do appreciate it was not best practice and he should have introduced himself better, but if this is what constitutes creepy then maybe what you are suggesting is that arranged marriages or chaperoned first dates is an appropriate method to try to find a partner.

I disagree. There's a massive gulf between approaching someone you share a building with and might occasionally chat to and taking a stranger's phone number without their permission when it was provided in good faith for professional reasons.

Tell me how

FunLover18 wrote: »

I disagree. There's a massive gulf between approaching someone you share a building with and might occasionally chat to and taking a stranger's phone number without their permission when it was provided in good faith for professional reasons.

See, I could understand how the text message might be less intrusive than doing so in the real world, and a person feeling that they were being cornered or intimidated.

The timing of the messages wasn't ideal as it would have left her wondering who was it that had texted for a couple of hours but I think the wording was pretty calm and explanatory and definitely not creepy.
I'm not saying that she didn't feel it was creepy, I can't say how she felt, but I don't think the behaviour was inherently creepy while still agreeing it was inappropriate.

And the reason that this conversation is interesting to me at this point is because it implies that how someone reacts to something is what determines whether it was creepy or not, rather than the event itself.

Say a friend told you they had a date with someone and explained that a delivery driver dropped off a package and they actually thought to themselves that he was cute and 2 hours later he texted (same texts as here) and asked her out and she said yes and was excited. If you were told that story, would you view the guy as being a creep?

hynesie08

Tell me how wrote: »

And the reason that this conversation is interesting to me at this point is because it implies that how someone reacts to something is what determines whether it was creepy or not, rather than the event itself.

That's a fair point, but I think it's somewhere in the middle. If someone in the group came up to the table in the pub and said she felt unsafe because a guy politely asked to buy her a drink and walked away when she said no? Overreacting

In this case though..... If she sees it as guy texts hey, doesn't identify himself, tells you he knows where you live, asks if you're alone, then asks again later that night when you'd be alone...... That's not overreacting in my opinion.

Say a friend told you they had a date with someone and explained that a delivery driver dropped off a package and they actually thought to themselves that he was cute and 2 hours later he texted (same texts as here) and asked her out and she said yes and was excited. If you were told that story, would you view the guy as being a creep?

So, something very similar happened in my job, a guy went through the companies Facebook page to find one of the girls that worked there and messaged her to ask her out. She agreed and I would only refer to him as the Facebook stalker. It didn't work out for them.....

ILoveYourVibes

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2020/08/13/news/real-life/argos-delivery-driver-report

Don't wanna read the article? Well then...
- Argos delivery driver drops off an item a customer ordered. All well and grand so far.
- later that day he sends her a text asking if she was single.
- obviously got her number off the docket and blatant breaking the rules of GDPR.
- she posts the texts to Argos Facebook.
- she now feels "unsafe" ( €€€ )

Well that's his job lost :pac:
He was chancing his arm obviously but stupid move, man. Should have been thinking.
As for her... It was unwanted so yeah it's not right but "unsafe" to me whacks of wanting compensation.

Because it's funny in this world as anyone who seeks compensation always feels either unsafe, mental anguish, emotionally unwell blah blah.

It's funny because if this 20 years ago you'd have some people just ringing the guy up in question, tearing him a new arsehole then ringing the shop to give out loads to the manager or what not. But hey... Sue sue sue :pac:

Why didn't he ask her in person for her number?

Tell me how

hynesie08 wrote: »

That's a fair point, but I think it's somewhere in the middle. If someone in the group came up to the table in the pub and said she felt unsafe because a guy politely asked to buy her a drink and walked away when she said no? Overreacting

In this case though..... If she sees it as guy texts hey, doesn't identify himself, tells you he knows where you live, asks if you're alone, then asks again later that night when you'd be alone...... That's not overreacting in my opinion.

Hang on, lets make sure we are understanding things correctly.
This is as I understand the sequence of texts was.



All he said initially was 'Hey; and then later said who he was but didn't say that he knew where she lived, or didn't say that he knew she was alone.

He did explain who he was at that point and then asked the question. We can take it that once she didn't respond, he didn't retort in any way other than she had done earlier with the follow up '?' text.

Inappropriate? Yes. Creepy? No.

hynesie08

Tell me how wrote: »

Hang on, lets make sure we are understanding things correctly.
This is as I understand the sequence of texts was.



All he said initially was 'Hey; and then later said who he was but didn't say that he knew where she lived, or didn't say that he knew she was alone.

He did explain who he was at that point and then asked the question. We can take it that once she didn't respond, he didn't retort in any way other than she had done earlier with the follow up '?' text.

Inappropriate? Yes. Creepy? No.

That's why I said if she sees it, you have to take every situation on its own merit, in this case I can honestly see her thought process if she found the situation creepy and I wouldn't tell her she's wrong.

Also, he didn't identify himself, there were 2 lads in the van, he didn't say which one he was.

FunLover18

Tell me how wrote: »

See, I could understand how the text message might be less intrusive than doing so in the real world, and a person feeling that they were being cornered or intimidated.

The timing of the messages wasn't ideal as it would have left her wondering who was it that had texted for a couple of hours but I think the wording was pretty calm and explanatory and definitely not creepy.
I'm not saying that she didn't feel it was creepy, I can't say how she felt, but I don't think the behaviour was inherently creepy while still agreeing it was inappropriate.

And the reason that this conversation is interesting to me at this point is because it implies that how someone reacts to something is what determines whether it was creepy or not, rather than the event itself.

Say a friend told you they had a date with someone and explained that a delivery driver dropped off a package and they actually thought to themselves that he was cute and 2 hours later he texted (same texts as here) and asked her out and she said yes and was excited. If you were told that story, would you view the guy as being a creep?

The text isn't what's intrusive though, people text all the time but usually they've exchanged numbers for that purpose. The intrusive bit is that she didn't give him her number, she gave the company her number. He took her phone number without her permission and rightfully lost his job. You can't do that and his intentions are irrelevant.

Absolutely if it happened to a friend I would think he's a bit of a creep, not that he's a rapist or the creepiest creep alive but I would definitely question the character of anyone who thinks it's ok to use customer data in that way. Where do you draw the line, email? Personal address?

Like there's no argument that he had the right to do what he did. If she had reacted positively and they'd got married, is it suddenly ok for every delivery person to store the number of and text all the people they find attractive? Absolutely not.

hynesie08

To clear it up, there are levels of creepy, and I would class this as a solid 3/10, doesn't mean it's not creepy though.

Church on Tuesday

hynesie08 wrote: »

To clear it up, there are levels of creepy, and I would class this as a solid 3/10, doesn't mean it's not creepy though.

Strange, you were more on the 9/10 side there a few pages back.

hynesie08

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Strange, you were more on the 9/10 side there a few pages back.

No I wasn't, in fact at one point I said not rapey but creepy, do I need to include a graph for future reference?

Tell me how

hynesie08 wrote: »

That's why I said if she sees it, you have to take every situation on its own merit, in this case I can honestly see her thought process if she found the situation creepy and I wouldn't tell her she's wrong.

Also, he didn't identify himself, there were 2 lads in the van, he didn't say which one he was.

This why it is interesting to me to explore this, because a determination on whether or not something is creepy surely must be based on more than just whether or not someone found it to be so.

It is an interesting topic and reminded me of a Tedx talk I saw some years ago on 'How To Skip the Small Talk and Connect With Anyone'. The girl giving the talk suggested that you go straight to ask meaningful questions and that that would lead to better interactions with people.

The top comment on the video included the following.

I try to imagine what would happen, if I, a forty-something, 6-feet, fat, bearded guy, would meet a young woman like Kalina in a train, lean over to her and ask her in my nicest voice: "What do you want to do before you die?"

The comment was a bit funny, but it does raise the point that behaviour can be viewed differently based on the person carrying it out or the person on the receiving end of it and is that a fair scenario?

Tell me how

FunLover18 wrote: »

The text isn't what's intrusive though, people text all the time but usually they've exchanged numbers for that purpose. The intrusive bit is that she didn't give him her number, she gave the company her number. He took her phone number without her permission and rightfully lost his job. You can't do that and his intentions are irrelevant.

Agree with it being inappropriate.
Disagree with it being creepy.

On the balance, losing his job was probably still warranted given that every day a driver will have access to new numbers and meet new people and GDPR legislation very much was designed to prevent your data being used in a way you haven't specifically agreed to.

kenmm

Tell me how wrote: »

This why it is interesting to me to explore this, because a determination on whether or not something is creepy surely must be based on more than just whether or not someone found it to be so.

It is an interesting topic and reminded me of a Tedx talk I saw some years ago on 'How To Skip the Small Talk and Connect With Anyone'. The girl giving the talk suggested that you go straight to ask meaningful questions and that that would lead to better interactions with people.

The top comment on the video included the following.



The comment was a bit funny, but it does raise the point that behaviour can be viewed differently based on the person carrying it out or the person on the receiving end of it and is that a fair scenario?

Ye, it's a combination of things really.


Taking the phone number without permission and then the awkward disjointed texts.

If he asked for the number first or didn't start the conversation and leave it hanging then I'd wager there would be no issue. But I think those things together moved it into the 'thats a bit creepy' zone for a lot of people.

And that is all there is to it.
Comparing to other situations, down the pub, work colleagues, gender reversals and all the other what-ifs are all irrelevant in this case.

hynesie08

This why it is interesting to me to explore this, because a determination on whether or not something is creepy surely must be based on more than just whether or not someone found it to be so.

Agreed, there are so many more factors than just perception, but at the same time downplaying someone's fears because of our perception is not the right way to go.

It is an interesting topic and reminded me of a Tedx talk I saw some years ago on 'How To Skip the Small Talk and Connect With Anyone'. The girl giving the talk suggested that you go straight to ask meaningful questions and that that would lead to better interactions with people.

The top comment on the video included the following.



The comment was a bit funny, but it does raise the point that behaviour can be viewed differently based on the person carrying it out or the person on the receiving end of it and is that a fair scenario?

Intent vs outcome is something that fascinates me, I don't think AH is the place for that discussion.....

kenmm

Tell me how wrote: »

On the balance, losing his job was probably still warranted given that every day a driver will have access to new numbers and meet new people and GDPR legislation very much was designed to prevent your data being used in a way you haven't specifically agreed to.

Ye, loosing the job is harsh but probably inevitable in this case. He broke his employers trust (and it all played out in public to boot)

hynesie08

kenmm wrote: »

Ye, loosing the job is harsh but probably inevitable in this case. He broke his employers trust (and it all played out in public to boot)

Is it harsh though? Every job has a red line DO NOT DO THIS, and I'd imagine this would cross that, I know if I did something like this I'd be out on my ear. Play stupid games and all that.

breezy1985

Love everyone arguing about is it this or that and "oh everyones a snowflake get over it" when its very simple. He took her number against rules and probably law so he rightly got sacked. There is no grey area here he broke rules and probably laws

kenmm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Love everyone arguing about is it this or that and "oh everyones a snowflake get over it" when its very simple. He took her number against rules and probably law so he rightly got sacked. There is no grey area here he broke rules and probably laws

Exactly.

That's what I mean. All these bs comparisons, back in my day, going for a kiss in a club, using 'snowflake' to shut down discussion. All of it is irrelevant as ultimately he wrongly took her personal details and she wasn't (rightly) too happy about it.
All the other nonsense is just the usual boards.ie/forum off topic noise that always happens.

kenmm

hynesie08 wrote: »

Is it harsh though? Every job has a red line DO NOT DO THIS, and I'd imagine this would cross that, I know if I did something like this I'd be out on my ear. Play stupid games and all that.

Depends on lots of factors. Probably it's a straight stackable offence but if he was (for example) a great employee and made one error in judgement after many years of loyal diligent, honest service then it might be preferable to go down some other disciplinary procedure.

But we don't know anything other than the basic facts, so it's all speculation really.

ILoveYourVibes

I wouldn't sack him ..i would just put him on probation and give her some free stuff.

kenmm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I wouldn't sack him ..i would just put him on probation and give her some free stuff.

Trying to giver her some is what caused this mess in the first place :pac:

Tell me how

breezy1985 wrote: »

Love everyone arguing about is it this or that and "oh everyones a snowflake get over it" when its very simple. He took her number against rules and probably law so he rightly got sacked. There is no grey area here he broke rules and probably laws

Your statement here contains a grey area with the use of the word 'probably'

ILoveYourVibes

kenmm wrote: »

Trying to giver her some is what caused this mess in the first place :pac:

lol

There is nothing cheap jewelry from argos cannot fix.

Im so lying

kenmm

Tell me how wrote: »

Your statement here contains a grey area with the use of the word 'probably'

The boards wink face is even creepier than Argos delivery drivers

the purple tin

kenmm wrote: »

Ye, it's a combination of things really.


Taking the phone number without permission and then the awkward disjointed texts.

If he asked for the number first or didn't start the conversation and leave it hanging then I'd wager there would be no issue. But I think those things together moved it into the 'thats a bit creepy' zone for a lot of people.

And that is all there is to it.
Comparing to other situations, down the pub, work colleagues, gender reversals and all the other what-ifs are all irrelevant in this case.

Yeah that is a bit weird. You don't just text 'hey' to somebody and then leave it unless they actually know who you are.
Even then it annoys my head, I would be tempted to text 'f**k off' back no matter who sent it.

Tell me how

kenmm wrote: »

The boards wink face is even creepier than Argos delivery drivers

Hope I don't lose my job over this.