Predicted Grades Appeals

joe40

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I'd be absolutely happy with the system for A levels, a real exam, set and corrected externally at the end of 5th year. It would help kids modulate their work ethic too, are they on track for what they want or do they need to put in more work.

Not that many subjects are 100% at the end as is. No practical subject like woodwork is mostly about the exam.home EC, History, Geog etc have projects. Languages have the oral. I'd love etc Id love to see them rolled out across more subjects but submitted the end of 5th year.

The ironic thing is England did away with a lot of the modular exams at A level and went for linear courses with assessment at the end like LC.
The Northern Ireland exam board CCEA kept the modules. It is a good system.

am_zarathustra

It's a much more sustainable way of doing things. A lot of kids really do go through to June of the LC with unrealistic expectations that do no one any good. Steadier work regularly would benefit them in preparation for college or even life. I didn't know NI had maintained the modulars, fair play.

Mardy Bum

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Applying for another course at the end of the year means they pay college fees the following year. WIth a registration fee of 3k and a course fee of at least 7k this would put college beyond a lot of students. It would make college in this country more elitist if anything else. A lot would drop out and never go back.

Your opinion isn't all that consistent. You're saying that it would require huge amounts of money and is utopian, yet a few posts back you were saying that it could work and it's only a lack of political will that is stopping it. Which is it?

It is utopian in the sense that we have centre right parties in government who are austerity merchants who have no desire to see any sort of change to the current system.

Money can always be found by a government. Always. If there was political will to change college entry for the year so that all students were treated equally then this is an option. There is no desire for this though.

I imagine any parent who has to console their child in the coming weeks will also wonder if there was a better way than the one decided.

joe40

am_zarathustra wrote: »

It's a much more sustainable way of doing things. A lot of kids really do go through to June of the LC with unrealistic expectations that do no one any good. Steadier work regularly would benefit them in preparation for college or even life. I didn't know NI had maintained the modulars, fair play.

Yeah there are two exam sessions, the AS exams at the end of year 13 ( worth 40% in my subject) and the final A level exams, called A2 at the end of year 14.
Pupils can also repeat year 13 exams if they wish.

I like the wider range of subjects the LC give but an awful lot depends on the performance in one exam.

am_zarathustra

I definitely agree, the range of subjects in the LC is definitely preferably. It's so hard for kids at 15 to decide a narrow range of subjects and I think it benefits cross curricular thinking to have a nice breath to learning.

I'd happily sign on for the 2 sets of exams though, it would really help with stress levels I feel and the hysteria around the LC which seems to get worse every year. Do many resit the year 13?

joe40

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I definitely agree, the range of subjects in the LC is definitely preferably. It's so hard for kids at 15 to decide a narrow range of subjects and I think it benefits cross curricular thinking to have a nice breath to learning.

I'd happily sign on for the 2 sets of exams though, it would really help with stress levels I feel and the hysteria around the LC which seems to get worse every year. Do many resit the year 13?

Yeah repeats would be quite common. The best mark stands. It would be difficult repeat all the exams though.

For example in my subject, the AS exams (Yr 13) have 3 separate module exams and the A2 exams (yr 14) also have 3 separate module exams.
So, in my subject, for the full A level each pupil has to sit 6 separate exams, that's without any repeats.

openup

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I definitely agree, the range of subjects in the LC is definitely preferably. It's so hard for kids at 15 to decide a narrow range of subjects and I think it benefits cross curricular thinking to have a nice breath to learning.

I'd happily sign on for the 2 sets of exams though, it would really help with stress levels I feel and the hysteria around the LC which seems to get worse every year. Do many resit the year 13?

I agree that the exam hysteria here is dreadful. Not sure when it started or why. I did my LC in 2008 and I feel like we all knew it wasn't the end of the world. Maybe that's rose tinted glasses.

However, I disagree entirely that two set of exams is less stress. In fact, I'd agree it's twice the stress. Both exams count. Same with continuious assessment. If it ALL counts then everything is stressful. I don't know if studies have been done on this but I would love to see some.

Even with JC now. The kids are stressed out of their minds because their CBAs "count". Then they realise they count but seperately (so not really), and it's all fine.

rainbowtrout

openup wrote: »

Even with JC now. The kids are stressed out of their minds because their CBAs "count". Then they realise they count but seperately (so not really), and it's all fine.

I dunno about CBAs. A lot of my students place no value on them. Some of the more clued in students asked one or two pointed questions about them before lockdown. 'What percentage of the final exam goes for the CBA?' When I explained that the Dept grade was separate to the CBA grade, the students that were aiming for high marks just went 'OK, I don't really need to focus on this as it counts for nothing'. Now they still turned in the best projects because they are top of my class but they don't see a value in the school based grade, and I think as more and more CBAs are piled on that will become more prevalent.

am_zarathustra

CBAs should be done in first and second year if at all. Doing them in third year is a stupid idea. It's still end loading all the stress. Kids in first year are still in the habit of doing projects and it would make transition easier and keep them focused on independent learning. I've no idea what genius decided throwing them into third year every few weeks was a good idea, for staff or students

matildajane

the forgotten cohort are students from previous years LC's - those who perhaps were not sure what they wanted to do so took the advice that said oh do a plc or take a year out. They are now seriously disadvantaged. They are also older so unlikely to want to wait another year to apply. They should have a weighting now added to their results so that they are treated equally. So for example additional points awarded in their best subjects. Or a small percentage of places held back for them with lower points. I wonder how many will 'fail' higher level maths this year??

Millionaire only not

soso02 wrote: »

Really ? The government's roadmap was issued before they announced the cancellation. The holding of the LC seemed very doable.

Many countries went ahead with their exams, Germany being one example.

Your stupidity will come to light when the results are issued.

Stress ? I know many students who delighted in the fact they had an additional 2 months of study. The voiceless minority

There back 3 days and 3rd school school affected this evening from normal routine !
2 classes from different schools have been sent home , over student getting tested positive and a further school in clare completely closed !
Define how this was going to be any different from leaving cert exams ?
<Personal abuse snipped>
Please read the charter.

Treppen

Millionaire only not wrote: »

There back 3 days and 3rd school school affected this evening from normal routine !
2 classes from different schools have been sent home , over student getting tested positive and a further school in clare completely closed !
Define how this was going to be any different from leaving cert exams ?
<Personal abuse snipped>
Please read the charter.

Cases were lower.

Only 1/6 of school population present.

Social distancing would have been a lot easier.

Mardy Bum

Treppen wrote: »

Cases were lower.

Only 1/6 of school population present.

Social distancing would have been a lot easier.

Considering where we are now, running the LC was very straightforward if there was a desire by the government. Votes, votes, votes. Save, save save.

Millionaire only not

soso02 wrote: »

Really ? The government's roadmap was issued before they announced the cancellation. The holding of the LC seemed very doable.

Many countries went ahead with their exams, Germany being one example.

Your stupidity will come to light when the results are issued.

Stress ? I know many students who delighted in the fact they had an additional 2 months of study. The voiceless minority

To the mod watching my texts better address page 11 they started the name calling . It’s a form of bulling and I will not be bullied by anyone .

spurious

Millionaire only not wrote: »

To the mod watching my texts better address page 11 they started the name calling . It’s a form of bulling and I will not be bullied by anyone .

Did you report it?
I don't 'watch' posts, I act on reports.

spurious

soso02 banned for a month for being a serial re-reg to get around bans.

Millionaire only not

I don’t know the age profile posting here but the leaving cert to me is no comparison to 20 years ago!
It is about building up to a peak to perform well on the day . A peak performance can not be expected if the goal posts and dates keep on changing .

It’s on , it’s off , it’s starting this day if there’s no more covit cases .

Get the students to college if they can’t handle the course they’ll be out within the year .

The class of 2021 are nearly going to have it more difficult if the return of school is anything to go by .

Monday will be interesting 🀔

Treppen

Anyone's school letting former students in on Monday?

rainbowtrout

Treppen wrote: »

Anyone's school letting former students in on Monday?

Don’t mention the war

Moody_mona

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Don’t mention the war

Glad I'm not the only one caught up in this battle

Millionaire only not

What do the people here think about points at this stage will the increase much on cao applications !

Mardy Bum

Millionaire only not wrote: »

What do the people here think about points at this stage will the increase much on cao applications !

Depends on the number of places available. Some courses have been increased.

Millionaire only not

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Depends on the number of places available. Some courses have been increased.

Is it the high point courses that the trouble will arise if they have been so generous with H1’s

rainbowtrout

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Is it the high point courses that the trouble will arise if they have been so generous with H1’s

Given that the DES already know the grades, they know where the pinch points are already. It's impossible to say how the points will fare out. I think a rise is inevitable, but the rise is across the board, so largely the same students who would have got the courses based on exam grades will get their offers through this method. There are extra places this year, and some students will want to take the year out and get the full college experience this year. How many will do that is not clear. It's also not clear how many will want to repeat in November and not take up a college place at all. After all, there will be fail grades on Monday.

joebloggs32

Treppen wrote: »

Anyone's school letting former students in on Monday?

We should have flame throwers at the entrances to keep them out

RealJohn

Millionaire only not wrote: »

What do the people here think about points at this stage will the increase much on cao applications !

I think it has nothing to do with me. I’m a teacher. I don’t work for the CAO.

RealJohn

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I think a rise is inevitable, but the rise is across the board, so largely the same students who would have got the courses based on exam grades will get their offers through this method.

There’ll be a rise across the board but it’s not going to be an even rise because the grades won’t have been awarded in a consistent manner, so lots of students whose teachers did their jobs properly and well will lose out, while lots students whose teachers did a bad and/or dishonest job will gain.

Treppen

RealJohn wrote: »

There’ll be a rise across the board but it’s not going to be an even rise because the grades won’t have been awarded in a consistent manner, so lots of students whose teachers did their jobs properly and well will lose out, while lots students whose teachers did a bad and/or dishonest job will gain.

Bit rough saying a teacher who has high expectations for their students is dishonest. The 17% of grades that the department wants to bump down... Is that really from 'dishonest' teachers?

It's simply not a 'proper' job either. It's like triage in a warzone. You do your best for the patient given a ****e situation. Maybe teachers who did a bad job were the ones who failed students too, who the heck knows?

That's the only point of principle going back decades which teachers in Ireland had to rely on. And that's what made the system in Ireland somewhat fair. Not grading our own students. Despite Ruairi Quins' best efforts he was given a trouncing and thankfully lost that battle, but it was hard fought, and will of course be forgotten.

You think the higher LC grades will make those idiots who were pushing for teacher JC certification realise how wrong they were?

No , instead we have teachers v teachers again fighting over who's fault it was that they lost out. Meanwhile the department are Laughing twenty steps ahead with the next initiatives and spin stories.

km79

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0059_2020.pdf


I think the latest Friday evening circular sums up this mess nicely
Click the link and be amazed at the ineptitude on display

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0059_2020.pdf


I think the latest Friday evening circular sums up this mess nicely
Click the link and be amazed at the ineptitude on display

Christ above I was going to end my rant above wondering why there wasn't a Friday night spoiler.

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0059_2020.pdf


I think the latest Friday evening circular sums up this mess nicely
Click the link and be amazed at the ineptitude on display

Very informative. Would read again.

Leftwaffe

Ah that's unreal altogether.

km79

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Very informative. Would read again.

Given that they released it just before the weekend and have clocked off until Monday it probably won’t even be changed
It should be sent out to every parent in every school and every media outlet to show what we are dealing with
It’s bad enough that they even waited until the Friday evening before the results to release it

rainbowtrout

km79 wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0059_2020.pdf


I think the latest Friday evening circular sums up this mess nicely
Click the link and be amazed at the ineptitude on display

I suppose you could say that the message is at least consistent if nothing else. :pac:

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

Given that they released it just before the weekend and have clocked off until Monday it probably won’t even be changed
It should be sent out to every parent in every school and every media outlet to show what we are dealing with
It’s bad enough that they even waited until the Friday evening before the results to release it

I for one feel that the clarity evident in the document is a quality that has long been absent. It is a welcome circular.

RealJohn

Treppen wrote: »

Bit rough saying a teacher who has high expectations for their students is dishonest. The 17% of grades that the department wants to bump down... Is that really from 'dishonest' teachers?

No, I think it will be a minority (though not an inconsequentially small minority) who will have been dishonest. Mostly, it will just be teachers doing a bad job.
Not their* fault. They haven’t been trained for it and even if they had, many of them doing a bad job is inevitable, and the lack of any real oversight won’t have helped matters.
The fact that overall, there will have been inflation across the board does not mean that a lot of deserving students won’t miss out and that a lot of undeserving students won’t gain.

*To be clear, I am not excluding myself from this. It’s just as likely that I did a bad job as anyone else.

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0059_2020.pdf


I think the latest Friday evening circular sums up this mess nicely
Click the link and be amazed at the ineptitude on display

Good lord that’s the actual document they uploaded??! I genuinely thought this was a joke this morning....

km79

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Good lord that’s the actual document they uploaded??! I genuinely thought this was a joke this morning....

That’s it
Still there
Sure it’s the weekend for them

Treppen

They should have put this at the bottom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfr64zoBTAQ

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Rickcirculard

Millionaire only not

RealJohn wrote: »

I think it has nothing to do with me. I’m a teacher. I don’t work for the CAO.

I asked for an opinion not ur hand in marriage

Alqua

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Good lord that’s the actual document they uploaded??! I genuinely thought this was a joke this morning....

I thought km had fooled us all nicely! Gobsmacked now.

km79

Alqua wrote: »

I thought km had fooled us all nicely! Gobsmacked now.

No it’s real
That’s it
Still there
Sure they don’t work weekends or holidays same as us .......

I must send it to our friendly education correspondents in the media

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

Given that they released it just before the weekend and have clocked off until Monday it probably won’t even be changed
It should be sent out to every parent in every school and every media outlet to show what we are dealing with
It’s bad enough that they even waited until the Friday evening before the results to release it

Still up today. If a school did something like this it would be removed immediately regardless of the day of the week.

Treppen

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Still up today. If a school did something like this it would be removed immediately regardless of the day of the week.

The minions in the department are probably under strict instructions to upload an announcement every Friday, no matter what.

r93kaey5p2izun

km79 wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0059_2020.pdf


I think the latest Friday evening circular sums up this mess nicely
Click the link and be amazed at the ineptitude on display

I had steeled myself for "what madcap u turn or ill conceived plan have they rushed out now?", but I was not prepared for that. Personally I think there is a hardcore troll in charge of DES circulars and press releases so I shouldn't be surprised.

km79

I see the LC exams “plan “ is nights and weekends ?
Where ?
Organized by whom ?
School staff are at breaking point already

RealJohn

km79 wrote: »

I see the LC exams “plan “ is nights and weekends ?
Where ?
Organized by whom ?
School staff are at breaking point already

They're relying on the fact that most students won't bother, as long as they get a college course they're satisfied with, or are happy with their pretend grades and go off to work.
If most students decided they were going to sit most of their exams, they'd cancel the exams again, because they wouldn't have the resources to hold them.

Mardy Bum

RealJohn wrote: »

They're relying on the fact that most students won't bother, as long as they get a college course they're satisfied with, or are happy with their pretend grades and go off to work.
If most students decided they were going to sit most of their exams, they'd cancel the exams again, because they wouldn't have the resources to hold them.

Some schools will have their best ever results this year whilst others may have lots of students who want to do the exam. I think the uptake for the exam will be disproportionate across the country.

RealJohn

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Some schools will have their best ever results this year whilst others may have lots of students who want to do the exam. I think the uptake for the exam will be disproportionate across the country.

I agree, but in the cold light of day, I think most students will opt not to sit the exams, even if they’re disappointed with their results, as long as they’ve been offered a college place they’re willing to try, or if they’re not going to college and their pretend grades are good enough for what the want (plc/army/Gardaí, etc).

rainbowtrout

RealJohn wrote: »

They're relying on the fact that most students won't bother, as long as they get a college course they're satisfied with, or are happy with their pretend grades and go off to work.
If most students decided they were going to sit most of their exams, they'd cancel the exams again, because they wouldn't have the resources to hold them.

Along with the 100% exam with no practical components except for a couple of exams, it’s just further discouragement