Why are council estates such high crime areas?

Randy Archer

gar32 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/ZZuucE4R65Q " If someone doesn’t understand privilege, show them this"


If you are brought up by uneducated parents you will have less chance to break out of a working class life.

If you live in a working class estate you are much less likely to go to college.

I am all for punishment for crime. If your child breaks the law fine the Parents. (Reduce the welfare payments.)

If rent is not paid on council house. Take it a source from their dole.

Also more needs to be done to help children form respect towards people. Empathy should be part of all children's schooling.

I suggest that school should have these talks in class. Whats the point in teaching working class kids history if they don't understand whats happening around them.

Many people didn’t see inside a secondary school before the 1960s unless they got Scholarships . They went on the family farm and worked for nothing (and didn’t inherit it later ) or got into the boat for England . Some had the cop on and drive to do night school . Many of their kids went on further than their parent

You have a laughable idea of what the urban worker class are like . To think that kids didn’t think for themselves and think “**** this. My parent is a loser , I want what Barry big ****e has so I’m going to work hard in school”

If what you said was true , then all of Balkymun and Tallaght would have turned out to be uneducated and unemployable - well , that didn’t happen for most of them .

You are waffling , without much relevant stats , about a tiny minority of people

Absolutely , fine the parents for their neglect of their kids and allowing their rats cause disorder on society - you are correct there

Working class history sounds like the biggest load of rubbish ever , thought by lol middle class teachers

There ought to be no badge of honour to be working class , nor should they be ashamed of it . It should be about growing up developing and getting a better life

Randy Archer

Lau2976 wrote: »

This is an actual crock of ****.

Even forgetting all of the other socio-economic issues, students from these areas can’t go to college because of financial blocks.

Assuming you don’t live 45km away from your college the max SUSI grant you can get is roughly €260 a month. Also assuming the combined income of you and both your parents isn’t more the €24500. And that someone is on a qualifying social welfare payment. You can’t get any other secondary benefits or most SW at the same time.

You and your parents can’t get loans because of your low income. You don’t have your parents financial support as a back up. So you get a 20 hour part time job to get by and earn about €200 a week. This is because of all the increased costs you have because of college. You need transport and you need to pack or buy a lunch everyday.

But next years SUSI application comes along and OOPS working brought you over the threshold for your grant so now your down to €130 a month.

So now your living on €930 a month. Working 20 hours, doing a full time degree while probably living in your parents ****hole that you have to commute to and from everyday.

We may pretend it’s available because they won’t refuse you based on where your from but the reality of the matter is we larger just price those people out instead.

Wow the grants have got really stingy . Grants back in 2000-2006 **** you could live easily .grants would be about 2 k every two months or so for long distance students . Rent wasn’t as bad in Dublin and it was dirt cheap outside Dublin

Kids not do part time jobs no more ? No scholarships for the brighter kids ?

You don’t need to go to college or go immediately to get on in life . Even starting out in places like Lidl which have genuine career progression in place for staff is a start

. There are other education avenues like Fas or whatever they call themselves that’s days and get a trade . Beggars can’t be choosers and college is rather overrated even for those who aspire to go into business

Plenty of further education is institutes too That can be backdoors into college eventually

Randy Archer

Lau2976 wrote: »

This is an actual crock of ****.

Even forgetting all of the other socio-economic issues, students from these areas can’t go to college because of financial blocks.

Assuming you don’t live 45km away from your college the max SUSI grant you can get is roughly €260 a month. Also assuming the combined income of you and both your parents isn’t more the €24500. And that someone is on a qualifying social welfare payment. You can’t get any other secondary benefits or most SW at the same time.

You and your parents can’t get loans because of your low income. You don’t have your parents financial support as a back up. So you get a 20 hour part time job to get by and earn about €200 a week. This is because of all the increased costs you have because of college. You need transport and you need to pack or buy a lunch everyday.

But next years SUSI application comes along and OOPS working brought you over the threshold for your grant so now your down to €130 a month.

So now your living on €930 a month. Working 20 hours, doing a full time degree while probably living in your parents ****hole that you have to commute to and from everyday.

We may pretend it’s available because they won’t refuse you based on where your from but the reality of the matter is we larger just price those people out instead.

You need transport everyday ? What college are you talking about ? In Dublin ? Living in Dublin ? Get a bike ! Ffs

Any college outside Dublin, you’d rent near the college which will hardly take forever to get to. There’s always digs or student accommodation centres too . Rent isn’t as bad outside Dublin

Doing full time degree and working 20 hours . And ? It’s doable , thousands of kids have done it and managed it and didn’t have a lot of money from one week to another .

20 hours a week work ? Eh you work all the hours you can get over the SUMMER and CHRISTMAS and EASTER , save all the wages )living rent free at home with the mammy , and by the time college starts you have a bit of a fund which you then budget . You then work at the weekends up and the odd mid week of you can get the hours

I’ll accept things are harder these days . Not sure many people are getting the likes of 20 hours of work a week even during the summer months now a days and ignoring Covid . Supermarkets have gone using computer tills . But there are the other usual jobs like bar work or billings

Far too many excuses here

Lau2976

Randy Archer wrote: »

Wow the grants have got really stingy . Grants back in 2000-2006 **** you could live easily .grants would be about 2 k every two months or so for long distance students . Rent wasn’t as bad in Dublin and it was dirt cheap outside Dublin

Kids not do part time jobs no more ? No scholarships for the brighter kids ?

Students over 45km away can get up to 650ish a month from SUSI, if both their and their parents income is below €25400 and someone is on a qualifying payment. But this would barely cover just accommodation costs, if even. And like I said working so you have something to live off would reduce your grant to half of that the next few years meaning after year 1 your grant wouldn’t even cover the accommodation.

I literally included a part time job in the breakdown.

There are other ways into college and college isn’t for everyone but to state that everyone has access to college is oversimplification of a multifaceted issue. Clearly, as laid out above, money is a massive block to education for people

Randy Archer

Lau2976 wrote: »

Students over 45km away can get up to 650ish a month from SUSI, if both their and their parents income is below €25400 and someone is on a qualifying payment. But this would barely cover just accommodation costs, if even. And like I said working so you have something to live off would reduce your grant to half of that the next few years meaning after year 1 your grant wouldn’t even cover the accommodation.

I literally included a part time job in the breakdown.

There are other ways into college and college isn’t for everyone but to state that everyone has access to college is oversimplification of a multifaceted issue. Clearly, as laid out above, money is a massive block to education for people

Are the grants not based on being dependent on parents and they don’t take into account your own modest part time earnings from the summer holidays ?

Look, obviously it’s been almost 20 years ������ Since i dealt with grants so thanks for the heads up . Didn’t think it was that bad .do they recheck yer finances after every year ? Christ I don’t recall the Vec doing that lol . I knew students in 2007 had issues . Glad I got to college at the right time

Looks likes people from that background must look at alternatives like FAs and then work or just get into some kind of job with career progression like Aldi and then do college latter

Believe me, college is Isn’t the be all and end all and frankly can be a bit of a waste of time . I know a few genuinely bright lads, one of whom is my brother , who hated school but did well in the LC without much effort . They gave college a go to to please the mammy but ****ed off by Christmas as they hated it )wanted to do something fancy like film and tv but they were private school fees , ended up doing business , which he has a head for ) he then just “took the easy way out” and worked in a well known petrol station and worked his way up over 10 years , now is in management with excellent pay . Zero college degree . But that’s not unusual , many business people born between 1940-1960 never bothered with college ; maybe night courses but learned their trade on the job

I think Michael O’Leary himself dropped out of college (he was from a well off family though ) and started a humble newsagent - no degrees for that really , book keeping I guess

If you are in Dublin and can go to college in Dublin and live at home , would it be easier financially ?

John Doe1

Because many of the least priveleged members of our society inhabit them and a small minority of these are the product of inter-generational trauma.

This minroity act out this trauma by committing crime. And the cycle continues....

Reading this thread makes me realise how blinkered some people are to their own class privelege and oppurtunities growing up.

Wanderer78

John Doe1 wrote:

Reading this thread makes me realise how blinkered some people are to their own class privelege and oppurtunities growing up.

People are just ignorant and not willing to actually do any research about such complexities and dysfunctions, covid has been horrendous for these people. my dysfunctional neighbours have been killing each other since all this kicked off, fueled by alcohol and drugs no doubt, and what a desperate environment for kids, they don't have a hope, and the more disturbing part is, the systems response is the same as always, simply, 'nothing', we should be ashamed of ourselves.

Meathman12

Wanderer78 wrote: »

my dysfunctional neighbours have been killing each other since all this kicked off, fueled by alcohol and drugs no doubt, and what a desperate environment

Do you think the government should have banned alcohol sales during the covid crisis.
Previously the children might have gotten some break from drunken parents that we're stuck in the pub all day.

John Doe1

John Doe1 wrote: »

Because many of the least priveleged members of our society inhabit them and a small minority of these are the product of inter-generational trauma.

This minroity act out this trauma by committing crime. And the cycle continues....

Reading this thread makes me realise how blinkered some people are to their own class privelege and oppurtunities growing up.

What a load of leftist crap.

I deal with these people every single day. It's nothing to do with being unfortunate. They are scum. They obtain pleasure from others suffering. They have no moral issues with taking your property and hurting you for their own benefit.

The sooner naive fools get over this desire to hug the world better and accept that sometimes people don't want to be saved and are just parasite scumbags, the better.

Go to sheriff street, see how your supposed minority of the minority theory plays out.

Wanderer78

Meathman12 wrote:

Do you think the government should have banned alcohol sales during the covid crisis. Previously the children might have gotten some break from drunken parents that we're stuck in the pub all day.

Not at all, as a previous poster stated, this is intergenerational dysfunction, it has required state intervention many decades ago, but it's now so dysfunctional, it's probably unresolvable, but state intervention would help. the health services should be all over this, and should have been decades ago, but again, the states bodies typical response is simply, 'nothing'! I've seen this my whole life, it's incredibly disturbing to watch, these people urgently need mental health professionals involved, social workers, the lot, to try deal with some of the dysfunction, no easy task though, they'd probably need gardai assistance also. It's a mess

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

People are just ignorant and not willing to actually do any research about such complexities and dysfunctions, covid has been horrendous for these people. my dysfunctional neighbours have been killing each other since all this kicked off, fueled by alcohol and drugs no doubt, and what a desperate environment for kids, they don't have a hope, and the more disturbing part is, the systems response is the same as always, simply, 'nothing', we should be ashamed of ourselves.

The system doesn't respond? They get Gardai on tap, usually daily to deal with their crap. They get paramedics, doctors and nurses for free on tap. They get social workers and teachers for free. They get money for free. Electricity, housing and heating reduced. Their children get school uniforms, breakfast and books for free.

If anything the mistake the system makes is giving them too much instead of just removing the kids

Wanderer78

Niner leprauchan wrote:

The system doesn't respond? They get Gardai on tap, usually daily to deal with their crap. They get paramedics, doctors and nurses for free on tap. They get social workers and teachers for free. They get money for free. Electricity, housing and heating reduced. Their children get school uniforms, breakfast and books for free.

....and this is usual bullsh1t response, these actions are simply not dealing with the problem, they need a lifetime of serious professional help, particularly from mental health services, which effectively doesnt exist in this country, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. effectively giving them these things is obviously not resolving their issues, as their issues are highly complex, and potentially somewhat unresolvable, but not untreatable. They need help! Removing their kids does not resolve the underlying issues, it would more than likely cause even more dysfunction, even more trauma, for all involved, including for the kids

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....and this is usual bullsh1t response, these actions are simply not dealing with the problem, they need a lifetime of serious professional help, particularly from mental health services, which effectively doesnt exist in this country, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. effectively giving them these things is obviously not resolving their issues, as their issues are highly complex, and potentially somewhat unresolvable, but not untreatable. They need help! Removing their kids does not resolve the underlying issues, it would more than likely cause even more dysfunction, even more trauma, for all involved, including for the kids

"Need a lifetime of serious help "

FFS

why do socialists have so little faith in people ? , having the state wipe people's butt's turns them into life long infants

The root of much of the growing culture of delinquency in Ireland is down to too much state support

We simply must expect more of people

Council House list, from my childhood peers

1. Army, retail, and apprenticeships
2. Apprenticeships, retail
3. College
4. Wasters x2
5. College x2
6. College x2
7. College, DJ, Retail
8. No college, no crime
9. Apprenticeship, retail
10. College and regular work
11. College
12. College x2
13. Apprenticeships x3
14. No college, no crime
15. Drug taking, ruined life
16. Apprenticeship
17. College x2
18. Apprenticeships x2, regular work x2
19. Regular work
20. Absolute scum: dealing, thieving, voilence, Gardaí always there, suspended sentences all around
21. Regular and retail

Any private area houses 15 and 20 would have been put through eviction process. Public means entire estate had to suffer in perpetuity.

Also, in relation to crime in social areas... White collar crimes take far more, in value, preventing social programs designed to help kids of scumbag parents.

Crimes committed by rich people are just brushed under carpet, in this country

Sorry if that skewers the elitist attitude of some posters here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOZ3IzRaf4

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote: »

"Need a lifetime of serious help "

FFS

why do socialists have so little faith in people ? , having the state wipe people's butt's turns them into life long infants

The root of much of the growing culture of delinquency in Ireland is down to too much state support

We simply must expect more of people

well its good im not a socialist then!

we ve been basically engaging in project 'personal responsibility' on this one, forever, its clearly failing!

have you ever actually engaged with folks that behave like this? they dont exactly live in the world of the norm

at9qu5vp0wcix7

Lau2976 wrote: »

This is an actual crock of ****.

Even forgetting all of the other socio-economic issues, students from these areas can’t go to college because of financial blocks.

Assuming you don’t live 45km away from your college the max SUSI grant you can get is roughly €260 a month. Also assuming the combined income of you and both your parents isn’t more the €24500. And that someone is on a qualifying social welfare payment. You can’t get any other secondary benefits or most SW at the same time.

You and your parents can’t get loans because of your low income. You don’t have your parents financial support as a back up. So you get a 20 hour part time job to get by and earn about €200 a week. This is because of all the increased costs you have because of college. You need transport and you need to pack or buy a lunch everyday.

But next years SUSI application comes along and OOPS working brought you over the threshold for your grant so now your down to €130 a month.

So now your living on €930 a month. Working 20 hours, doing a full time degree while probably living in your parents ****hole that you have to commute to and from everyday.

We may pretend it’s available because they won’t refuse you based on where your from but the reality of the matter is we larger just price those people out instead.

The max grant is over 600/month for somebody more than 45km away. Combined with money from the HEAR program, it's more than enough to survive. If you're less than 45km away, you live at home. Best bet is to move more than 45km away and go to a college in a cheap town/city. I did this myself, as did others in the council estate I grew up in. But we were the minority, most wanted to stay around the estate, and get a free house in the same area as their family.

Wanderer78

Maya Tiny Courthouse wrote: »

The max grant is over 600/month for somebody more than 45km away. Combined with money from the HEAR program, it's more than enough to survive. If you're less than 45km away, you live at home. Best bet is to move more than 45km away and go to a college in a cheap town/city. I did this myself, as did others in the council estate I grew up in. But we were the minority, most wanted to stay around the estate, and get a free house in the same area as their family.

how long ago was this?

at9qu5vp0wcix7

Wanderer78 wrote: »

how long ago was this?

Recent enough for it to sell be relevant and still be the case - in the last 5-10 years.

Before you go screaming rent, have a look at student rooms in Waterford or Sligo.

Wanderer78

Maya Tiny Courthouse wrote: »

Recent enough for it to sell be relevant and still be the case - in the last 5-10 years.

Before you go screaming rent, have a look at student rooms in Waterford or Sligo.

im from one of those places, rent situations, and work conditions have changed in the last few years, particularly for younger generations, what worked for older generations, may not work for younger generations, rent in waterford has been steadily rising over the last few years

Pawwed Rig

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Listening to my lovely Part V neighbor's house party where people are boxing the head off each other in the garden. Gardai have been and gone twice.

It's nights like tonight where you feel like a gobshiite for buying a new house and subsidizing these clowns.

Next time discretely lob a couple of stink bombs over the wall.

at9qu5vp0wcix7

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im from one of those places, rent situations, and work conditions have changed in the last few years, particularly for younger generations, what worked for older generations, may not work for younger generations, rent in waterford has been steadily rising over the last few years

I know people still in college there, 350/month does you for rent, another small amount for bills. An overall lack of prosperity in the city does make it harder to get part time work, but it is still more than possible for anybody with an ounce of determination to get an education there.

Wanderer78

Maya Tiny Courthouse wrote: »

I know people still in college there, 350/month does you for rent, another small amount for bills. An overall lack of prosperity in the city does make it harder to get part time work, but it is still more than possible for anybody with an ounce of determination to get an education there.

less likely though, if you re from a lower socioeconomic background, putting the financial issues aside, you ll find many of these individuals mentioned n the tread would in fact have struggled in the earlier stages of our educational system, many quitting before leaving cert, therefore being unable to proceed further. complex psychological disorders are more than likely at play here, including learning disabilities etc

walshb

gailforecast wrote: »

If everyone’s the same, why should it make a difference?

A lot of it is rearing. Simple as. The lack of good moral values being instilled in children. And a serious chip on the shoulder for many..

Many living in less well-off circumstances have a real disdain and contempt and begrudgery’ for others doing better..

And sadly, there are influential people and parties actively encouraging this and driving this..

Donald Trump

There seems to be an amount of cognitive dissonance on this thread.

The overlap between:
1) posters talking about and agreeing that "99%" of people on council estates are grand
and
2) You don't understand you privilege on how hard it is to get into college when your parents are alchos and druggies and wasters who never went to school
seems quite high


So which is it lads? Is it that there is only 1% bad, or that there are plenty bad and that is why there are so many kids who find it difficult to make their ways out of the socioeconomic circumstances?






Personally, I think that the biggest barrier to further education is just attitude and expectations of parents/peers etc. That is a really really difficult thing to overcome for any kid - much more so than financial issues. The kid from the well off area expects to go to college from the time they are probably 10-12 and learn some vague idea of what a college is. It's not necessarily just wealth - it's that expectation. Whereas the kid from the poor area might just think it's what "other" people do - "not for me". They just don't know




But on the overall thread topic - yes - of course there is going to be a conditional bias. If you are a waster and a chancer who likes to play the system then you will more likely end up in those areas. That will skew the stats of the "we are all the same" argument.

Eric Cartman

If we segregated social housing things would get a lot better. Only 18% of social tenants only work, over 60% are only on the dole, only give the working ones the prime properties in cities and suburbs.

Pkiernan

The Unbearables wrote: »

Again what's that got to do with the thread title?

Well, do you think the animals that attacked that woman grew up in Killiney or Foxrock?

The Unbearables

The Unbearables wrote: »

You pay rent on council houses so bang goes your argument.

Some people pay rent from their welfare payment. Others don’t bother to pay. 1.6 million in 2017. https://www.thejournal.ie/rtb-annual-report-4124661-Jul2018/

walshb

Donald Trump wrote: »

There seems to be an amount of cognitive dissonance on this thread.

The overlap between:
1) posters talking about and agreeing that "99%" of people on council estates are grand
and
2) You don't understand you privilege on how hard it is to get into college when your parents are alchos and druggies and wasters who never went to school
seems quite


So which is it lads? Is it that there is on

The 99 percent figure is nonsense...

Always felt that line was horse****...

If that was true then every estate in Ireland would be riddled with crime and problems..

Eric Cartman

walshb wrote: »

The 99 percent figure is nonsense...

Always felt that line was horse****...

If that was true then every estate in Ireland would be riddled with crime and problems..

99% talking about almost any topic is wrong, the reality of social housing is probably more like

30% of people - those who work or work part time are absolutely grand , no issue, probably arent causing any problems
30% probably have some issues with drink/drugs/disability or just being a bit workshy but cause no harm to anyone
30% probably don’t have the gards called that often but are just piss takers , roaring down the road , partying till 4am , pissed on a wednesday, dont control their kids , live off lager and chicken nuggets , kids probably dont have many prospects
10% - absolute straight up scumbag criminals and wannabe hard lads fully involved in criminality/ drug dealing/ terrorising the estates and making them awful places.

The Unbearables

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If we segregated social housing things would get a lot better. Only 18% of social tenants only work, over 60% are only on the dole, only give the working ones the prime properties in cities and suburbs.

Wrong