Why are council estates such high crime areas?

The Unbearables

Pkiernan wrote: »

Well, do you think the animals that attacked that woman grew up in Killiney or Foxrock?

Where did Graham Dwyer grow up?

Have you got a point?

The Unbearables

I live a in a council estate. I work as does my wife, in front line health care.

My eldest son goes to college and plans to finish his degree and become a vet.

My youngest is incredibly bright and got student of the year last year in school. She wants to be a pilot when she finishes school.

Out of the 50 or so social houses in our part social and affordable estate we have three scummer families who are complete dirt and the rest are brilliant neighbours and friends and 90% of them work. I'd rate the posters on this thread looking down on ordinary decent people like myself and my family living in social houses as not only ignorant but cowards to boot.

smellyoldboot

Eric Cartman wrote: »

99% talking about almost any topic is wrong, the reality of social housing is probably more like

30% of people - those who work or work part time are absolutely grand , no issue, probably arent causing any problems
30% probably have some issues with drink/drugs/disability or just being a bit workshy but cause no harm to anyone
30% probably don’t have the gards called that often but are just piss takers , roaring down the road , partying till 4am , pissed on a wednesday, dont control their kids , live off lager and chicken nuggets , kids probably dont have many prospects
10% - absolute straight up scumbag criminals and wannabe hard lads fully involved in criminality/ drug dealing/ terrorising the estates and making them awful places.

This is a lot closer to reality than the 99/1 split. The lager and chicken nugget crowd is closer to 50% in some areas though and there's a fair bit of crossover between categories: some work and are still scumbags, some don't and are terrific neighbours etc.

Eric Cartman

The Unbearables wrote: »

Wrong

Ive posted the governments own stats proving that im correct atleast 20 times on this site

Pkiernan

The Unbearables wrote: »

Where did Graham Dwyer grow up?

Have you got a point?

I was responding as to why the case of the poor woman attacked by those animals was brought up in this thread.

Would have thought it obvious really.

Unlimited, consequence free welfare breeds crime.

IAMAMORON

Give up your auld sins.

It astonishes me the level of contempt and begrudgery that goes on.

You either want to live in a society that supports the less well off or you don't. Some real idle tripe posted here painting people in your own towns like they are second rate citizens or something, just because of where they live?

No one choses to live in a Council Estate, it is not some grand plan. Yes they are rough in parts and yes there are scumbags living there. But keyboard warriors cranking on about others who are less well off is really trite. It must be a slow enough weekend.

If you had an ounce of decency in yourselves you would take the opportunity to get to know people who live in council estates. They are not all criminals. I remember Dublin when Gardener St and Clanbrassil St looked like downtown Beirut. The North inner city was a slum up until the 1960's. Not everyone gets the same starts and opportunity in life. Have the decency to at least respect people who are trying to get on with things instead of kicking them on the floor.

James Brown

coolbeans wrote: »

Just like you don't care about acknowledging facts where about half of social housing tenants in Dublin don't pay their token rents. You can only do so much for people before they have to start shouldering even some of the responsibility for themselves.

Most social tenants pay little rent compared to private renters. Its great. The system works, that's the goal.
Now instead of being in council built and owned property its often privately owned estates and luxury apartments.
Thats on us for not supporting council builds.

Things are so tight for working tax payers they could look to policy makers but instead are looking to those worse off. Policy makers love that. Keep it up

Eric Cartman

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Give up your auld sins.

It astonishes me the level of contempt and begrudgery that goes on.

You either want to live in a society that supports the less well off or you don't. Some real idle tripe posted here painting people in your own towns like they are second rate citizens or something, just because of where they live?

No one choses to live in a Council Estate, it is not some grand plan. Yes they are rough in parts and yes there are scumbags living there. But keyboard warriors cranking on about others who are less well off is really trite. It must be a slow enough weekend.

If you had an ounce of decency in yourselves you would take the opportunity to get to know people who live in council estates. They are not all criminals. I remember Dublin when Gardener St and Clanbrassil St looked like downtown Beirut. The North inner city was a slum up until the 1960's. Not everyone gets the same starts and opportunity in life. Have the decency to at least respect people who are trying to get on with things instead of kicking them on the floor.

1) there are absolutely some people who choose to live in a council estate and make it their lifes goal to get a free gaf

2) there are some, not all / not a majority of people who absolutely are treated like 2nd class citizens and deserve to be, its not because they live in a cluncil estate but theor attitude to life, the same attitude that left them in those estates.

IAMAMORON

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1) there are absolutely some people who choose to live in a council estate and make it their lifes goal to get a free gaf

2) there are some, not all / not a majority of people who absolutely are treated like 2nd class citizens and deserve to be, its not because they live in a cluncil estate but theor attitude to life, the same attitude that left them in those estates.

Its attitudes like this that appeased the Nazi's in Munich when they built Dachau.

Appalling.

briany

I would just like to say that before anyone starts drawing up plans to bring back borstal, the workhouses, the laundries, capital/corporal punishment, and mad Christian brothers, there's a reason why we got rid of those things in the first place - they led to massive human rights abuses right across which would dwarf the problem of crime in council estates. Sometimes when you hear about scrotes getting away with all sorts, it can be attractive to think of a return to a more conservative time in Irish society, back when social controls were tighter. That is until you remember about all the crap that went along with that...

Mad_maxx

The Unbearables wrote: »

I live a in a council estate. I work as does my wife, in front line health care.

My eldest son goes to college and plans to finish his degree and become a vet.

My youngest is incredibly bright and got student of the year last year in school. She wants to be a pilot when she finishes school.

Out of the 50 or so social houses in our part social and affordable estate we have three scummer families who are complete dirt and the rest are brilliant neighbours and friends and 90% of them work. I'd rate the posters on this thread looking down on ordinary decent people like myself and my family living in social houses as not only ignorant but cowards to boot.

I'm attacking how local authority housing has been politicised, the hard left vehemently oppose any evictions and by doing so ,hurt those people who respect their area and neighbours

You have to have rules, PBP etc want none for these delinquent tenants

Mad_maxx

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Give up your auld sins.

It astonishes me the level of contempt and begrudgery that goes on.

You either want to live in a society that supports the less well off or you don't. Some real idle tripe posted here painting people in your own towns like they are second rate citizens or something, just because of where they live?

No one choses to live in a Council Estate, it is not some grand plan. Yes they are rough in parts and yes there are scumbags living there. But keyboard warriors cranking on about others who are less well off is really trite. It must be a slow enough weekend.

If you had an ounce of decency in yourselves you would take the opportunity to get to know people who live in council estates. They are not all criminals. I remember Dublin when Gardener St and Clanbrassil St looked like downtown Beirut. The North inner city was a slum up until the 1960's. Not everyone gets the same starts and opportunity in life. Have the decency to at least respect people who are trying to get on with things instead of kicking them on the floor.

Nothing more trite than middle class leftists eulogizing those from working class areas, how they categorise them as poor etc ,speak of people as effectively helpless

Bigotry of low expectations

saabsaab

The 99% of ordinary people in estates would thank you for removing the 1% that cause most of the trouble, criminality etc. Those that cause repeated trouble should be evicted and not be housed again in prime central located estates.

riclad

My friend lives on a council estate ,its calm and quiet,
the houses are all bought from the council.
theres very little crime there .
Theres maybe 1 or 2 houses left there where the tenant pays rent to the council.
i think it might be more relevant to say why is there more crime in working class areas.
people on low income tend to commit more crime,
People who use drugs tend to commit more crime.
theres no such thing as a free gaf.
people pay rent based on the total income of the household.
every estate is different.
Most people who live in council estates work and have a car.
Theres people on this forum, who make general comments
who live in apartments or private homes, they have probably never visited
anyone in a council estate.
if everyone stopped buying drugs the drug dealers would go out of business .
Many respectable middle class people buy cocaine or other drugs .

James Brown

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'm attacking how local authority housing has been politicised, the hard left vehemently oppose any evictions and by doing so ,hurt those people who respect their area and neighbours

You have to have rules, PBP etc want none for these delinquent tenants

No they don't. That's baloney. I've seen councillors try get rid of problem families from estates. They aren't going to risk losing hundreds of votes for one or two criminal families.

Eric Cartman

Bowie wrote: »

No they don't. That's baloney. I've seen councillors try get rid of problem famikies from estates. They aren't going to risk losing hundreds of votes for one or two criminal families.

try to, yes, success however is rare.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

try to, yes, success however is rare.

Agreed.
The idea that people can choose not to work, get a free house, engage in antisocial behaviour and have PBP defend them is bollocks.

Eric Cartman

Bowie wrote: »

Agreed.
The idea that people can choose not to work, get a free house, engage in antisocial behaviour and have PBP defend them is bollocks.

the issue is these types hide behind the genuine worker and pbp get over zealous

when you say "council estates cause crime and problems" people with the pbp rose tinted glasses on only see the cleaners, security guards and shop assistants and say 'thats complete crap, you have no idea what you're on about' meanwhile behind that row of actual working class people the scum are there wringing their hands together and shouting 'were salt of the earth'

pbp like to think of council estates as full of actual working class people genuinely in need and contributing , most of them have never even set foot in a council estate let alone lived there long enough to know its not all roses.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the issue is these types hide behind the genuine worker and pbp get over zealous

when you say "council estates cause crime and problems" people with the pbp rose tinted glasses on only see the cleaners, security guards and shop assistants and say 'thats complete crap, you have no idea what you're on about' meanwhile behind that row of actual working class people the scum are there wringing their hands together and shouting 'were salt of the earth'

pbp like to think of council estates as full of actual working class people genuinely in need and contributing , most of them have never even set foot in a council estate let alone lived there long enough to know its not all roses.

That is not credible nor believable.
Its akin to saying FF/FG support and fight for fraudsters and embezzlers. Just because there is a criminal element in their demographic they defend it doesn't mean they defend any criminal element within it.
Housing estates are mostly by far filled with people who bother nobody and go to work and pay taxes.
A few bad families run wild. You'll notice them more so. The solution is not to tar all social housing occupants as the same. And its an argument to nowhere. We've had decades of FF/FG and now we've private estates with a percentage of social and that includes luxury apartments.
PBP/SD/SF want a return to social housing builds. That will end you paying 400,000 to live next door to social housing.

Randy Archer

John Doe1 wrote: »

Because many of the least priveleged members of our society inhabit them and a small minority of these are the product of inter-generational trauma.

This minroity act out this trauma by committing crime. And the cycle continues....

Reading this thread makes me realise how blinkered some people are to their own class privelege and oppurtunities growing up.

It’s not people’s being blinkered . They simply do not accept and Won’t tolerate the lame excuses for their failures and unwillingness to improve themselves . Why bother when they have useful idiots with their pseudo social science degrees making excuses for them? Why bother when welfare pays for Their lifestyles

Privileges ? The people who ape that Americanism should be slapped multiple times

Most people , from a particular generation came from nothing backgrounds , some didn’t even get educated . They didn’t turn to crime and blame the “guberment” for their failures . Many of them didn’t get one red cent of financial support either

Greaney

The original question is

Whey are council estates such high crime areas?'

The short answer... because the residents aren't invested in the area, simply put, they don't own them.

Lemme 'splain.

I lived in council flats & in turn a new built council estate for a few years. I was one of a number of residents with a third level education who didn't grow up in a council estate. I learnt how different people have different values. Some of us were willing to put time into 'the community', picking up litter, forming a residents assoc., volunteering etc. while others were more concerned with the inside of their home, spending €4k on a fantastic kitchen, borrowing to fit out the entire home, in their rental property. As you can imagine, the people concerned with making the property perfect, hadn't much 'time' left to invest in the area....

Meanwhile, in the same suburb, across from us ( we were the only council estate in the area) were x2 private estates that mirrored each other, either side of our local park. Exactly the same, same builder, same spec etc.. One estate was mostly owner occupied, the other, mostly private landlords/rented. Guess what? The mostly rented estate had the exact same problems many council estates do. Anti-social behavior, dumping.... In fact, my estate wasn't as rough because we at least had a decent residents assoc. at the time and were organised.

The thing is, most folk in all the estates worked, they weren't bums, but there was a very different attitude to money & property within that group. I guess those of us who felt we had a 'voice, a seat at the table if you will, didn't waste our money on carpets & kitchens, but saved to buy a house, often elsewhere (and that was a bit of a brain drain out of the estate) and those who felt dis-empowered tried to make they're homes nicer cos they perhaps didn't understand that location is where the value lies, and the only thing they feel they have control of is the colour scheme.... Furthermore, many of us understood, that the quality of our lives do depend on the quality of our neighbors behavior... so we were not afraid of reporting our neighbors for anti-social behavior, and we knew how to go about it . The threats of scumbags did not silence us.

Either way, if you notice, old council estates, where there's higher owner occupier ship, begin to gentrify...

This negative talk about the residents of council estates on this thread is not only nasty & bigoted, it's also genuinely clueless. There's sponger, freeloaders, criminals and dodgy dealers in all strata of society. Those who end up with a nice address are often just better at negotiating 'life' and play smarter with the hand that's dealt them.

John Doe1

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What a load of leftist crap.

I deal with these people every single day. It's nothing to do with being unfortunate. They are scum. They obtain pleasure from others suffering. They have no moral issues with taking your property and hurting you for their own benefit.

The sooner naive fools get over this desire to hug the world better and accept that sometimes people don't want to be saved and are just parasite scumbags, the better.

Go to sheriff street, see how your supposed minority of the minority theory plays out.

Christ....

So you are saying they just genetically inferior and are pretty much a different species rather than the product of inter-genertional trauma and lack of opprtunities?

So what do we do with this species, kill them all, sterilise them, maybe a concentration camp will set them right?

Eric Cartman

John Doe1 wrote: »

Christ....

So you are saying they just genetically inferior and are pretty much a different species rather than the product of inter-genertional trauma and lack of opprtunities?

So what do we do with this species, kill them all, sterilise them, maybe a concentration camp will set them right?

it is possible that neither of those answers are agreeable.

intergenerational trauma alsolutely sound like the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.

IAMAMORON

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Nothing more trite than middle class leftists eulogizing those from working class areas, how they categorise them as poor etc ,speak of people as effectively helpless

Bigotry of low expectations

I would rather have someone's back than be sliming around cyberspace whipping up hatred from behind your keypad. it takes a certain creep to have contempt for his fellow citizens.

This is a free country ( get it ).

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

99% talking about almost any topic is wrong, the reality of social housing is probably more like

30% of people - those who work or work part time are absolutely grand , no issue, probably arent causing any problems
30% probably have some issues with drink/drugs/disability or just being a bit workshy but cause no harm to anyone
30% probably don’t have the gards called that often but are just piss takers , roaring down the road , partying till 4am , pissed on a wednesday, dont control their kids , live off lager and chicken nuggets , kids probably dont have many prospects
10% - absolute straight up scumbag criminals and wannabe hard lads fully involved in criminality/ drug dealing/ terrorising the estates and making them awful places.

Load of w@nk you're spouting here



https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114321511&postcount=105

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

Load of w@nk you're spouting here



https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114321511&postcount=105

one singular anecdotal post, and that poster said 'from my childhood' there is a ginormous difference between social housing of the pre 80s and post , drugs and not locking up lone mothers in asylums changed the dynamic entirely. The rise of drugs and absence of fathers degraded social housing enormously.

Ballymun held up as the typical example of a failed social development is just a victim of timing. The children born to ballymuns original residents became teens during a heroin epidemic, they were the first offspring of a generation of dock workers and other labourers who would never see jobs again. 20 years after its completion and you have a second wave of kids starting to be born to drug addicted mothers or where the fathers are addicts, dealers, not present or locked up. A bus route or a shopping centre had about as much to do with that failure as the rain did.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Council House list, from my childhood peers

1. Army, retail, and apprenticeships
2. Apprenticeships, retail
3. College
4. Wasters x2
5. College x2
6. College x2
7. College, DJ, Retail
8. No college, no crime
9. Apprenticeship, retail
10. College and regular work
11. College
12. College x2
13. Apprenticeships x3
14. No college, no crime
15. Drug taking, ruined life
16. Apprenticeship
17. College x2
18. Apprenticeships x2, regular work x2
19. Regular work
20. Absolute scum: dealing, thieving, voilence, Gardaí always there, suspended sentences all around
21. Regular and retail

Any private area houses 15 and 20 would have been put through eviction process. Public means entire estate had to suffer in perpetuity.

Also, in relation to crime in social areas... White collar crimes take far more, in value, preventing social programs designed to help kids of scumbag parents.

Crimes committed by rich people are just brushed under carpet, in this country

Sorry if that skewers the elitist attitude of some posters here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOZ3IzRaf4

How do you know what crimes these people are committing? I'm a Garda and I don't have such detailed information on my neighbors.

riclad

riclad wrote: »

My friend lives on a council estate ,its calm and quiet,
the houses are all bought from the council.
theres very little crime there .
Theres maybe 1 or 2 houses left there where the tenant pays rent to the council.
i think it might be more relevant to say why is there more crime in working class areas.
people on low income tend to commit more crime,
People who use drugs tend to commit more crime.
theres no such thing as a free gaf.
people pay rent based on the total income of the household.
every estate is different.
Most people who live in council estates work and have a car.
Theres people on this forum, who make general comments
who live in apartments or private homes, they have probably never visited
anyone in a council estate.
if everyone stopped buying drugs the drug dealers would go out of business .
Many respectable middle class people buy cocaine or other drugs .

I can name 3 areas where the majority do not have jobs. Prsi paying jobs I should say.

A house where no one works or a single mother with 4 kids is not paying rent of any description, that's a free house.

Your bang on about the dealer though.

Rubberchikken

It's not a fair question to ask and it's generalising in the extreme.
Most people are ok. It's doesn't matter where they live.
There are troublemakers everywhere. In the fanciest private estates, in privately built owner occupied/rented out estates, apartment blocks whatever.

This looking down on someone from a council house is a truly narrow minded attitude and this thread like all the others in this line are just a pathetic attempt to generate hate.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

one singular anecdotal post, and that poster said 'from my childhood' there is a ginormous difference between social housing of the pre 80s and post , drugs and not locking up lone mothers in asylums changed the dynamic entirely. The rise of drugs and absence of fathers degraded social housing enormously.

Ballymun held up as the typical example of a failed social development is just a victim of timing. The children born to ballymuns original residents became teens during a heroin epidemic, they were the first offspring of a generation of dock workers and other labourers who would never see jobs again. 20 years after its completion and you have a second wave of kids starting to be born to drug addicted mothers or where the fathers are addicts, dealers, not present or locked up. A bus route or a shopping centre had about as much to do with that failure as the rain did.

You are talking some ****e pulling all this out of your arse. Your ignorance on this is astounding.
People housed in ballymun came from all over Dublin. There were no amenities not even shops. So you put that many people in tower blocks you're going to have concentrated issues. High density.
How many single parent no father families are we talking? All of them never worked, (again)? Where's the stats for all this? Its completely anecdotal elitist Tory crap.