Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

It will need to be to be successful. Maybe SF should face reality and accept it will be a financial decision for many and come up with a plan.

Before you say what about FF/FG? I don't think they have any interest in an UI until the economy is prosperous again.

I think FF and FG will be led to the inevitable on this. Martin knows it is coming - his Unity Unit is (IMO a weak attempt) to try and control it and claim it.

But it will belong to all of us. I have yet to see even the glimmer of a political party here that will oppose it. Who do you see standing against it politically...Peter Casey maybe? Gemma might see it as a bandwagon?
Genuine question BTW.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think FF and FG will be led to the inevitable on this. Martin knows it is coming - his Unity Unit is (IMO a weak attempt) to try and control it and claim it.

But it will belong to all of us. I have yet to see even the glimmer of a political party here that will oppose it. Who do you see standing against it politically...Peter Casey maybe? Gemma might see it as a bandwagon?
Genuine question BTW.

Because it's at the whim of the SoS I expect the border poll will only be called when it suits the Republic too and in that case these issues will be moot.

It's not happening anytime soon despite MLD bluster on it. Both sides will want to recover from COVID first and get their economies back on track.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

Because it's at the whim of the SoS I expect the border poll will only be called when it suits the Republic too and in that case these issues will be moot.

It's not happening anytime soon despite MLD bluster on it. Both sides will want to recover from COVID first and get their economies back on track.

I forgot that SF are likely to be in government next. Even still they won't be able to push it hard. If they do they won't be in power for long. Pretty much everything is a bigger priority in the Republic. Once SF lose power it will be put on the back burner again.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Because it's at the whim of the SoS I expect the border poll will only be called when it suits the Republic too and in that case these issues will be moot.

It's not happening anytime soon despite MLD bluster on it. Both sides will want to recover from COVID first and get their economies back on track.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose and events my dear...events.

There are many things that can radically change here, some very likely. The Scots, the British finding they have to renege on the deal with the EU, some unforeseen consequences into the mix.

Alll up in the air, and none of the scenarios are good for partition.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Different strokes for different folks I suppose and events my dear...events.

There are many things that can radically change here, some very likely. The Scots, the British finding they have to renege on the deal with the EU, some unforeseen consequences into the mix.

Alll up in the air, and none of the scenarios are good for partition.

Talking about Scotland,it looks like the Scots have begun the policing of UK waters post brexit in earnest.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/brexit-scottish-patrol-boat-turns-irish-boat-away-rockall-over-fishing-rights-3086506

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Talking about Scotland,it looks like the Scots have begun the policing of UK waters post brexit in earnest.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/brexit-scottish-patrol-boat-turns-irish-boat-away-rockall-over-fishing-rights-3086506

Rockall has been contentious as long as I have been alive Rob...periodically in this way.

After that, not sure what your point is. Are you claiming this is a sign they have dropped their desire to be independent with a view to rejoining the EU - i.e. the 'relevant' point to this thread?

jh79

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I mean, if we micromanaged the economy to such an extent as to ask the citizenry to pay for various services, then as tightfisted as the Irish are and how they see anyone getting anything as scrounger, then nothing would ever be done.

It's plain nonsense to ask a loaded question like that when the "paying" for it will be barely a ripple to the man on the street if a cost at all long-term.

The question on the referendum will be a simple:

"Should Ireland be reunified?"

That will be it!

Micromanage the economy! We are talking about a population increase of 40% with only a 10% increase in GDP. Think about that for a minute.

trixi001

RobMc59 wrote: »

Talking about Scotland,it looks like the Scots have begun the policing of UK waters post brexit in earnest.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/brexit-scottish-patrol-boat-turns-irish-boat-away-rockall-over-fishing-rights-3086506

As has the south of Ireland https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55566214

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Micromanage the economy! We are talking about a population increase of 40% with only a 10% increase in GDP. Think about that for a minute.

Where are you getting that from - increase in pop with only 10% increase in GDP?

RobMc59

trixi001 wrote: »

As has the south of Ireland https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55566214

All of which rather shows that NI fishermen are only viewed as Irish in the minds of disgruntled,delusional republicans.In the real world,they are British.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where are you getting that from - increase in pop with only 10% increase in GDP?

A quick Google of the figures would put the GDP of NI at around 11.3% of that of Ireland, and the population at around 38%, so it really is only a minor exaggeration through rounding in fairness.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

All of which rather shows that NI fishermen are only viewed as Irish in the minds of disgruntled,delusional republicans.In the real world,they are British.

I'm guessing you didn't read the article, Rob? Your, 'just a neutral observer' mantle is well and truly shredded at this point.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Rockall has been contentious as long as I have been alive Rob...periodically in this way.

After that, not sure what your point is. Are you claiming this is a sign they have dropped their desire to be independent with a view to rejoining the EU - i.e. the 'relevant' point to this thread?

I thought this thread was about NI-you mentioned Scotland.Us British know Ireland dances to the tune of brussels,just as shinn fein dances to Britain`s tune in NI.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

A quick Google of the figures would put the GDP of NI at around 11.3% of that of Ireland, and the population at around 38%, so it really is only a minor exaggeration through rounding in fairness.

It's based on NI standing still with no program of investment.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's based on NI standing still with no program of investment.

Can you see NI's economic growth outstripping the Irish economy any time before unification? If not, then the figure only gets worse.

Presumably the poster is talking about the relative economies and populations at the point of unification if it happened today, not post unification with X number of years of investment.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'm guessing you didn't read the article, Rob? Your, 'just a neutral observer' mantle is well and truly shredded at this point.

Approaching something with an open mind(neutral observer) is a reasonable strategy I`d say Fionn,we don`t all have to be unbending ,disgruntled and unwilling to listen to other points of view.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

Approaching something with an open mind(neutral observer) is a reasonable strategy I`d say Fionn,we don`t all have to be unbending ,disgruntled and unwilling to listen to other points of view.

I'd agree 100%....my point is that you absolutely don't, considering you waded in to state (your preconceived notion of) what the Irish government thinks of the people of NI.....when you clearly hadn't read the actual article.

I'd suggest going back and reading it to realise the problem before continuing and making yourself look foolish. I'll give you a clue, the fisherman discussed is from Donegal...

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

With the supply chain issues being reported across the North, I'd say you're being somewhat facetious with your insistence that you have unfettered access to the UK market.

It's Brandon Lewis levels of head-in-the-sand. Have you been drinking the BoJo propaganda Kool Aid?

Ben Lowry of The Newsletter could hardly be described as anything but the most ardent of Unionists, here's his take on things;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/ben-lowry-bogus-denial-major-new-irish-sea-border-illustration-tragicomic-political-saga-3083508%3famp

An amusingly appropriate direct quote from that article;

"As from 11pm on Thursday just past, trade is no longer unfettered between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK."

Or another one;

"There is another way to illustrate how unthinkable such a development was until recently — republicans did not think of it either."

Maybe when you have people like Ben calling this out, it is a bit more than Republican wishful thinking to state that the DUP have made unification an altogether more likely prospect.

I didn’t read bens article. But I did not say we have unfettered access both ways. As a unionist I am pissed off by the dup and the checks coming from gb to ni, but I have to also accept that the unfettered acres from ni to gb and Eu is unique and very attractive.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think FF and FG will be led to the inevitable on this. Martin knows it is coming - his Unity Unit is (IMO a weak attempt) to try and control it and claim it.

But it will belong to all of us. I have yet to see even the glimmer of a political party here that will oppose it. Who do you see standing against it politically...Peter Casey maybe? Gemma might see it as a bandwagon?
Genuine question BTW.

I could be wrong but I thought the unity unit was about uniting the people and not the island

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I didn’t read bens article. But I did not say we have unfettered access both ways. As a unionist I am pissed off by the dup and the checks coming from gb to ni, but I have to also accept that the unfettered acres from no to gb and Eu is unique and very attractive.

You should, I wouldn't be his biggest fan (not because of The Newsletter, I've all the time in the world for Alex Kane for example), but he makes some very salient points. He doesn't share your optimism.

Managed correctly, I could see how access to both markets would've been beneficial, but those investments need long term security which the 4 year vote undermines, and political stability, which there's no point pretending we'll have so long as SF/DUP have control.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'd agree 100%....my point is that you absolutely don't, considering you waded in to state (your preconceived notion of) what the Irish government thinks of the people of NI.....when you clearly hadn't read the actual article.

I'd suggest going back and reading it to realise the problem before continuing and making yourself look foolish. I'll give you a clue, the fisherman discussed is from Donegal...

Irish governmental pettifogging because an Irish fisherman has registered his vessel in an`unapproved`NI port is embarrassing for a nation that maintains there is no distinction in their eyes between Ireland and NI imo.I see the Irish minister of agriculture is aware of the problem and trying to resolve it.Sounds like hastily imposed EU rules coming back to bite them in the backside..
As with Easons in NI,its only `all Ireland` when it suits.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

[/B]

I thought this thread was about NI-you mentioned Scotland.Us British know Ireland dances to the tune of brussels,just as shinn fein dances to Britain`s tune in NI.

This is hardly a post from Rob "I'm not a Brexiter honest" Mc59?

Your posts are such nonsense.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

Approaching something with an open mind(neutral observer) is a reasonable strategy I`d say Fionn,we don`t all have to be unbending ,disgruntled and unwilling to listen to other points of view.

But you're the epitome of bias. Neutral my eye.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I could be wrong but I thought the unity unit was about uniting the people and not the island

Are we all gonna float above the island and hold hands or what?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I could be wrong but I thought the unity unit was about uniting the people and not the island

You trust FF too much downcow. Senior FGer putting his cards on the table today too.

Time to get nervous I would suggest downcow. Pro UI leader in waiting in FF and now FG's next in line coming out pro the idea in his political lifetime.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

This is hardly a post from Rob "I'm not a Brexiter honest" Mc59?

Your posts are such nonsense.

Strange you`ve shown up bonnie,I was`nt aware I`d said `beetlejuice` three times?

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

Irish governmental pettifogging because an Irish fisherman has registered his vessel in an`unapproved`NI port is embarrassing for a nation that maintains there is no distinction in their eyes between Ireland and NI imo.I see the Irish minister of agriculture is aware of the problem and trying to resolve it.Sounds like hastily imposed EU rules coming back to bite them in the backside..
As with Easons in NI,its only `all Ireland` when it suits.

'Swift change in rules due to Britain's decision to pull NI out of the EU against their will and engage in brinkmanship until the last minute before bending over and taking what they can get leads to an unpleasant situation that the Irish government are trying to resolve' would be another way of putting it, Rob.

Who controlled the timeframe for Britain's exit from the EU, Rob? Who refused to request another extension?

It's Daily Express levels of idiot spin to try and paint it as something the Irish government or EU have inflicted on anyone.

Of course a 'neutral' like yourself would never parrot back idiotic Daily Express type soundbites that don't hold up to even the most basic levels of scrutiny....

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

'Swift change in rules due to Britain's decision to pull NI out of the EU against their will and engage in brinkmanship until the last minute before bending over and taking what they can get leads to an unpleasant situation that the Irish government are trying to resolve' would be another way of putting it, Rob.

Who controlled the timeframe for Britain's exit from the EU, Rob? Who refused to request another extension?

It's Daily Express levels of idiot spin to try and paint it as something the Irish government or EU have inflicted on anyone.

Of course a 'neutral' like yourself would never parrot back idiotic Daily Express type soundbites that don't hold up to even the most basic levels of scrutiny....

The thing is though Fionn,Ireland playing sillly buggers over where a vessel lands it`s catch does`nt put the Irish government in a good light.I`m surprised you have fallen into the lazy stereotyping usually displayed by bonnie to label those who stick up for their country as a brexiteer or right wing fascist.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

The thing is though Fionn,Ireland playing sillly buggers over where a vessel lands it`s catch does`nt put the Irish government in a good light.I`m surprised you have fallen into the lazy stereotyping usually displayed by bonnie to label those who stick up for their country as a brexiteer or right wing fascist.

.....care to point out where I called you a Brexiteer, let alone a Right Wing Fascist, Rob? I've made no comment on the rights or wrongs of Brexit, I certainly haven't said anything about standing up for your country (though I would be wary of anyone who defends absolutely anything their country will do just to 'stick up for their country'). I commented on your idiotic Daily Express style take; blaming an issue entirely caused by a UK decision on anyone but the UK. Serious reek of, 'poor me' to try and strawman that into me calling you a fascist.

Ireland aren't playing silly buggers over where a vessel lands its catch, they've been caught on the backfoot by an agreement made at very short notice due to the UK, based on a decision to leave the EU, made by the UK and the relevant minister has stated they're working on a solution. I don't give a damn if you support Brexit, but don't play silly buggers yourself while pointing the finger. If you want to stick up for your country, own the consequences of your country's decision.

ittakestwo

downcow wrote: »

I could be wrong but I thought the unity unit was about uniting the people and not the island

Uniting the two jurisdictions of the island into one sovereign jurisdiction