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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

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    #3752
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Beltby wrote: »
    Try getting a job in Europe with a gb passport. You will need a work permit. You won't need a work permit with an Irish passport.

    Don't think there's any worries about DC getting employed 'over forren'.


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    #3753
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Beltby wrote: »
    Try getting a job in Europe with a gb passport. You will need a work permit. You won't need a work permit with an Irish passport.

    These guys are in La La land really. Imagine thinking they still have all the EU rights and benefits they had before. WTF. :)


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    #3754
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You need the new UK Global Health Card...your right to an EU EIHC one disappears when your current one expires. The UK has to pay for their own scheme now. What was that you were saying about EU benefits?

    I find it all hard to keep up with so I may be wrong on which benifits remain, but are you telling me that Sean from Crossmaglen who has an Irish passport can’t get the health card?


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    #3755
    Beltby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 253 ✭✭Beltby


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Don't think there's any worries about DC getting employed 'over forren'.

    You don't know. He might be forced to emigrate if gb goes down the sh1tter. I can't see him looking for a job in Dublin, or ROI for some reason.

    How's your French, downcow? Parlez vous francais?


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    #3756
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Beltby wrote: »
    Try getting a job in Europe with a gb passport. You will need a work permit. You won't need a work permit with an Irish passport.

    It will be an interesting test case if billy and Sean who both live in Belfast go for a job in Spain and billy is told he can’t apply. Just gonna be interesting whether EU will willingly or by force of law protect the gfa ?


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    #3757
    Beltby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 253 ✭✭Beltby


    downcow wrote: »
    It will be an interesting test case if billy and Sean who both live in Belfast go for a job in Spain and billy is told he can’t apply. Just gonna be interesting whether EU will willingly or by force of law protect the gfa ?
    Billy can apply. He just needs to have an up to date work permit.


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    #3758
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    downcow wrote: »
    It will be an interesting test case if billy and Sean who both live in Belfast go for a job in Spain and billy is told he can’t apply. Just gonna be interesting whether EU will willingly or by force of law protect the gfa ?

    Does Billy have proof of his EU citizenship ie. an Irish passport?

    You wouldn't be trying to tell us now that he's an Irish citizen by birth now would ya?:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


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    #3759
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Your right to citizenship has nothing to do with the GFA. It was codified in the 1956 Citizenship Act.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1956/act/26/section/6/enacted/en/html#sec6


    What? Why would their entitlement to health change?

    The EHIC only covers you when you're abroad, ie. Northern resident going to France or Germany etc.

    The GB resident is covered in NI under the HSC/NHS. Likewise the Northern resident will be covered for healthcare in Britain under the NHS/NHS Wales/NHS Scotland.

    Residents of GB are covered under reciprocal agreements to be covered for healthcare in ROI. Same for those in the North.

    You misunderstood my question. What I am wondering Is who the Eu will determine your be Northern Irish? This seems very complicated. ie if I move to England am I still eligible and how long would rob have to live in ni until he would be eligible ?


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    #3760
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    I find it all hard to keep up with so I may be wrong on which benifits remain, but are you telling me that Sean from Crossmaglen who has an Irish passport can’t get the health card?

    EU passport holders = ctizens of an EU member state. Yes, Sean can apply and get one as far as I know.

    GB citizens cannot, they must apply for the GHIC which doesn't cover Norway, Iceland, Switzerland & Liech'stein.


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    #3761
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    It will be an interesting test case if billy and Sean who both live in Belfast go for a job in Spain and billy is told he can’t apply. Just gonna be interesting whether EU will willingly or by force of law protect the gfa ?

    :) There is no prtection in the GFA and never intended to be, for that scenario. If you are a GB citizen you need a work permit.


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    #3762
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    EU passport holders = ctizens of an EU member state. Yes, Sean can apply and get one as far as I know.

    GB citizens cannot, they must apply for the GHIC which doesn't cover Norway, Iceland, Switzerland & Liech'stein.

    There is no such thing as GB citizens, but that aside, what about billy who has a UK passport and is Northern Irish? I genuinely don’t know the answer but I think maybe no one does until there is a discrimination test case


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    #3763
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    downcow wrote: »
    There is no such thing as GB citizens, but that aside, what about billy who has a UK passport and is Northern Irish? I genuinely don’t know the answer but I think maybe no one does until there is a discrimination test case

    The only way I can see is if it is a UK passport with a ni address on it ?


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    #3764
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    There is no such thing as GB citizens, but that aside, what about billy who has a UK passport and is Northern Irish? I genuinely don’t know the answer but I think maybe no one does until there is a discrimination test case



    If you have a United Kingdom of GB & NI passport you will be treated as such. You were told this often enough.

    Apply for your Irish passport, thousands of your community are way ahead of you on that one.

    Absolutely shocked that after 4 years you are still unaware of this stuff.


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    #3765
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    downcow wrote: »
    You misunderstood my question. What I am wondering Is who the Eu will determine your be Northern Irish? This seems very complicated. ie if I move to England am I still eligible and how long would rob have to live in ni until he would be eligible ?

    What?

    The entitlement to the EHIC is based on residency, and you will receive an EHIC card after you prove your entitlement should you be in another EU State and require healthcare. It's as it always has been.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/060fdf-northern-ireland/#health

    ---

    The EU have no interest in determining who's "Northern Irish". It's not a nationality.

    Having an EU passport first and foremost is all anyone will give a shíte about.


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    #3766
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    downcow wrote: »
    There is no such thing as GB citizens, but that aside, what about billy who has a UK passport and is Northern Irish? I genuinely don’t know the answer but I think maybe no one does until there is a discrimination test case
    downcow wrote: »
    The only way I can see is if it is a UK passport with a ni address on it ?

    You know passports don't have addresses on them, right?

    See my response above.


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    #3767
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If you have a United Kingdom of GB & NI passport you will be treated as such. You were told this often enough.

    Apply for your Irish passport, thousands of your community are way ahead of you on that one.

    Absolutely shocked that after 4 years you are still unaware of this stuff.

    Now I have told you a few things on here that have came true and I am telling you now that there is no way the Eu can ignore the gfa after quoting it almost daily to the uk government during negotiations. I am quite shocked that you think they can completely disregard an important aspect of it after telling us all how they were not going to do anything that contradicted the gfa.
    I think there is lots of stuff that hasn’t been thought through that will be interesting to watch develop. Get the popcorn.

    I think if they attempt what you suggest then the protocol will collapse and then some serious head scratching needs done.


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    #3768
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    You know passports don't have addresses on them, right?

    See my response above.

    Fair point. How silly of me. I am feeling now like the posters who thought there are GB citizens lol


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    #3769
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    downcow wrote: »
    Now I have told you a few things on here that have came true and I am telling you now that there is no way the Eu can ignore the gfa after quoting it almost daily to the uk government during negotiations. I am quite shocked that you think they can completely disregard an important aspect of it after telling us all how they were not going to do anything that contradicted the gfa.
    I think there is lots of stuff that hasn’t been thought through that will be interesting to watch develop. Get the popcorn.

    I think if they attempt what you suggest then the protocol will collapse and then some serious head scratching needs done.

    Is this English?


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    #3770
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Now I have told you a few things on here that have came true and I am telling you now that there is no way the Eu can ignore the gfa after quoting it almost daily to the uk government during negotiations. I am quite shocked that you think they can completely disregard an important aspect of it after telling us all how they were not going to do anything that contradicted the gfa.
    I think there is lots of stuff that hasn’t been thought through that will be interesting to watch develop. Get the popcorn.

    I think if they attempt what you suggest then the protocol will collapse and then some serious head scratching needs done.

    Have you read your own NI website on this downcow. I suggest it is time you do.

    There is NO provision in the GFA for the UK leaving the EU.


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    #3771
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    You know passports don't have addresses on them, right?

    See my response above.

    Have to say, I thought that it was GB Brexiteers that were going to be in line for shocks about what they were getting themselves into. The level of ignorance about what it means for NI revealed in the last few pages is surprising and shocking on so many levels. From a poster gloating about what a great deal it was too.


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    #3772
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Is this English?

    Ulster-scots


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    #3773
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Have to say, I thought that it was GB Brexiteers that were going to be in line for shocks about what they were getting themselves into. The level of ignorance about what it means for NI revealed in the last few pages is surprising and shocking on so many levels. From a poster gloating about what a great deal it was too.

    From a poster who thinks there are GB citizens.


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    #3774
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Have you read your own NI website on this downcow. I suggest it is time you do.

    There is NO provision in the GFA for the UK leaving the EU.

    My point exactly. Then the EU stepped in and said it was sacrosanct and they would ensure it was not contradicted. As I say, get the popcorn ðŸ¿


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    #3775
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    My point exactly. Then the EU stepped in and said it was sacrosanct and they would ensure it was not contradicted. As I say, get the popcorn ðŸ¿

    For border reasons mostly. Which have been sorted.

    You wish to remain with a UK passport you will be treated as a UK citizen. Why this hasn't been abundantly clear to you, escapes me. But there you go. Good luck trying to re-negotiate.

    p.S. This is why you are hearing political figures saying this will all lead inexorably to a UI.


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    #3776
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    downcow wrote: »
    My point exactly. Then the EU stepped in and said it was sacrosanct and they would ensure it was not contradicted. As I say, get the popcorn ðŸ¿

    So, again, the Irish government was looking out for all of the citizens on the island unlike the British government.

    I see...


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    #3777
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    downcow wrote: »
    there is no way the Eu can ignore the gfa

    Are you claiming that British Passports should bestow their holders the same privileges as Irish passports in continental EU because of the GFA?


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    #3778
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    According to the GFA

    Irrespective of Northern Ireland's constitutional status within the United Kingdom, or part of a united Ireland, the right of "the people of Northern Ireland" to "identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both" (as well as their right to hold British or Irish citizenship or both) was recognised. By the words "people of Northern Ireland" the Agreement meant "all persons born in Northern Ireland and having, at the time of their birth, at least one parent who is a British citizen, an Irish citizen or is otherwise entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on their period of residence"



    So if I am interpretating this correctly only people born in NI can get an Irish passport. So if you are born in GB and then move to NI you cant get an Irish passport but if you are born in NI and then move to GB later in life you still have the right of an Irish passport.


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    #3779
    Beltby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 253 ✭✭Beltby


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Are you claiming that British Passports should bestow their holders the same privileges as Irish passports in continental EU because of the GFA?

    He knows full well that the GFA entitles him to declare himself as Irish and apply for an Irish passport. That way he won't need to get a work permit to work in Europe. :D


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    #3780
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Are you claiming that British Passports should bestow their holders the same privileges as Irish passports in continental EU because of the GFA?

    I am not saying anything ‘should’ be the case. I am interested in how it will develop.

    So are you saying that the Irish protocol does not protect ni but rather just protects the Irish people living in ni?


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    #3781
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    I am not saying anything ‘should’ be the case. I am interested in how it will develop.

    So are you saying that the Irish protocol does not protect ni but rather just protects the Irish people living in ni?

    Man are you in for some shocks. Here is the exact wording of the 'Protocol' agreed and signed of on by people you would rather trust than your fellow islander/citizens/neighbours:
    RECOGNISING that Irish citizens in Northern Ireland, by virtue of their Union citizenship, will continue to enjoy, exercise and have access to rights, opportunities and benefits, and that this Protocol should
    respect and be without prejudice to the rights, opportunities and identity that come with citizenship of the Union for the people of Northern Ireland who choose to assert their right to Irish citizenship, as defined in Annex 2 of the British-Irish Agreement ‘Declaration on the Provisions of Paragraph (vi)
    of Article 1 in Relation to Citizenship’,

    It is ALSO why thousands of your community have decided to become Irish citizens. an identity they are fully entitled to have because they were born on the island of Ireland.


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