Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You are being tricky. What, in your view, would a NI independence movement be seeking?

Tom you are being a dick. It’s your tactic. Keep saying it often enough. Here was the exchange.

“"””
Quote: Junkyard Tom
You're being a tricky customer now.

What would you guess an NI Independence movement would seek?


I am not being tricky. I point out a reality and you claim it is a want of mine.
If I said the Ira will intensify their smuggling after brexit, would you say ‘why do you want the ira to smuggle ’.

Either show us the post where I said I wanted an independent ni or just do the right thing and say you were misquoting me“””””

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Quote: downcow
Well maybe you would answer the question as to whether you oppose decentralisation of power from Dublin?
try answering the question you were asked rather than the one you would like to be asked

I don't particularly care where the power is centralised as long as it is. Devolution doesn't seem to me to work anywhere. So until somebody persuades me otherwise, I see no need for it here. I absolutely oppose it in NI. Never worked and never will IMO.

So can you try to sell it now. How would you see it working after a majority vote for a UI?

Natterjack from Kerry

Beltby wrote: »

I would like to see British rule out, not British people. The people are welcome. I'm sure many share my view.

What ? There is no British rule in NI .It is simply a part of the United Kingdom, and an especially favoured part of it now with a foot in both camps. If you mean that you would like to see Northern Ireland not being part of the United Kingdom, then what benefits that would bring would cause you to like to see it come about ? There are only downsides to any such further detachment from the UK now.

Natterjack from Kerry

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The ROI won't be ruling in ni, downcow. The Irish people will determine their own future as a unified island come a successful border poll.

The same question really. What possible benefits can you see for NI in becoming part of a single administration on the island ? Map neatness isnt a very strong argument.

Rodin

In the end there'll be a soft reunification.
Boris is the greatest thing to happen to Irish nationalism in generations.

Even today, Stena has rerouted its new ferry from Liverpool- Belfast to Rosslare-Cherbourg.

Northern Ireland needs to stop looking east but instead to the south where its future lies in the EU.

FrancieBrady

Rodin wrote: »

In the end there'll be a soft reunification.
Boris is the greatest thing to happen to Irish nationalism in generations.

Even today, Stena has rerouted its new ferry from Liverpool- Belfast to Rosslare-Cherbourg.

Northern Ireland needs to stop looking east but instead to the south where its future lies in the EU.

Has been a **** day all around for the Brexiteers. Huge German logistics firm pulls the plug on haulage to UK, Boris throws Scottish fishermen under the bus, Arlene screaming STOP, Ford having tariffs applied to new Fiesta, and now Stena pulling a brand new ship destined for the Belfast - Britain route and re-deploys it to Rosslare.

Death by a thousand cuts was an understatment to be honest.

Fionn1952

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

What ? There is no British rule in NI .It is simply a part of the United Kingdom, and an especially favoured part of it now with a foot in both camps. If you mean that you would like to see Northern Ireland not being part of the United Kingdom, then what benefits that would bring would cause you to like to see it come about ? There are only downsides to any such further detachment from the UK now.

No British rule in NI?! Ah come on, you're taking the piss at this point. A fundamentally dysfunctional devolved government with most of its significant laws pushed directly from Westminster.....the same Westminster that could easily push laws through that are supported by zero MPs from NI, Scotland or Wales....

English rule might be better terminology, but suggesting that the UK is a system where NI is a fundamental and equal part.....well that is an absolute pile of sh*te.

Favoured my hole.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

I haven’t gave it any thought as I think it’s hypothetical.
How would you like to see power decentralised in your fantasy Ireland or are you for all the power in Dublin?

There is decentralisation already all over the country. I'd imagine Belfast & Derry would get a couple of Depts in the event of reunification.

jelem

And NI shops short on goods because EU twats
demand paperwork between 1 part of uk and another part.
this the farce of a deal for the "imaginary ni border".
the pathetic excuse of the peace deal abused for eu interference and
method to harm uk for leaving.
just like eu slow on vaccine rollout. even germany now looking elsewhere
aside from hungary.

jelem

Fionn1952 wrote: »

No British rule in NI?! Ah come on, you're taking the piss at this point. A fundamentally dysfunctional devolved government with most of its significant laws pushed directly from Westminster.....the same Westminster that could easily push laws through that are supported by zero MPs from NI, Scotland or Wales....

English rule might be better terminology, but suggesting that the UK is a system where NI is a fundamental and equal part.....well that is an absolute pile of sh*te.

Favoured my hole.

be aware unless massive political change in uk and even with
gerrymandered "southern import" of citizens and london abandon
the uk citizens in NI. (which will lead to war.
the loyal majority whilst silent still will say
No Surrender
and that is what your "dream" against and "play politics" against.
Only a complete change of Dail politics and political parties and london
abandonment may see a united ireland after a bloodbath.
FF and FG will not go away and that is a major problem for
south now-- on many issues beside NI. be it rip off costs to hospitals
etc..
ya know- better pick up a porn mag and dream of the naked model as
you as much chance of coupling with the model as a united ireland.

Fionn1952

jelem wrote: »

be aware unless massive political change in uk and even with
gerrymandered "southern import" of citizens and london abandon
the uk citizens in NI. (which will lead to war.
the loyal majority whilst silent still will say
No Surrender
and that is what your "dream" against and "play politics" against.
Only a complete change of Dail politics and political parties and london
abandonment may see a united ireland after a bloodbath.
FF and FG will not go away and that is a major problem for
south now-- on many issues beside NI. be it rip off costs to hospitals
etc..
ya know- better pick up a porn mag and dream of the naked model as
you as much chance of coupling with the model as a united ireland.

Put the bottle down pal, be grand in the morning.

downcow

Somebody said to me today. “Have you ever asked a republican why the want a United ireland, give me three good reasons”.
So anyone got three good reasons?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Somebody said to me today. “Have you ever asked a republican why the want a United ireland, give me three good reasons”.
So anyone got three good reasons?

Familiar routine, go missing when being asked questions you done't want to answer.

This one still awaiting an answer:

I oppose devolution for NI.

Can you tell us how you envisage it could work? What do you say to the majority in NI who voted for a UI when they find themselves still partitioned?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115912413&postcount=4019

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Familiar routine, go missing when being asked questions you done't want to answer.

This one still awaiting an answer:




https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115912413&postcount=4019

I don’t avoid questions.
I assume you mean devolution in a hypothetical united island? As opposed to our current devolution within the uk.

United island continues to slip further away so won’t happen. But I guess I can fantasise with you.

I would say that the unionist community accepted devolution in ni within uk to help nationalists feel more comfortable so maybe nationalists could do the same for unionists in a UI
I would say unionist were confident enough in their british identity to go for devolution in uk so maybe nationalists could try to build their confidence in their irishness to reciprocate.
I’d say we have became a place apart during last 100 years and it would be logical to acknowledge that with devolution
I could go on and on.

Now could you give me some reasons why you would be so opposed to devolution

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I don’t avoid questions.
I assume you mean devolution in a hypothetical united island? As opposed to our current devolution within the uk.

United island continues to slip further away so won’t happen. But I guess I can fantasise with you.

I would say that the unionist community accepted devolution in ni within uk to help nationalists feel more comfortable so maybe nationalists could do the same for unionists in a UI
I would say unionist were confident enough in their british identity to go for devolution in uk so maybe nationalists could try to build their confidence in their irishness to reciprocate.
I’d say we have became a place apart during last 100 years and it would be logical to acknowledge that with devolution
I could go on and on.

Now could you give me some reasons why you would be so opposed to devolution

Because Unionism has no idea how it works (see petitions of concern and vetoing)

So basically you are looking for a favour from nationalists. Yet you claim to be confident in your Britishness. So why not be confident in a UI?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I don’t avoid questions.
I assume you mean devolution in a hypothetical united island? As opposed to our current devolution within the uk.

United island continues to slip further away so won’t happen. But I guess I can fantasise with you.

I would say that the unionist community accepted devolution in ni within uk to help nationalists feel more comfortable so maybe nationalists could do the same for unionists in a UI
I would say unionist were confident enough in their british identity to go for devolution in uk so maybe nationalists could try to build their confidence in their irishness to reciprocate.
I’d say we have became a place apart during last 100 years and it would be logical to acknowledge that with devolution
I could go on and on.

Now could you give me some reasons why you would be so opposed to devolution

Do you know WHY the GFA and by extension devolution and the Stormont (Joint) Executive came into being?

This is a genuine question that I hope you can answer for me.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

I don’t avoid questions.

You are a tricky customer and evasive.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Do you know WHY the GFA and by extension devolution and the Stormont (Joint) Executive came into being?

This is a genuine question that I hope you can answer for me.

I guess you could get 50 different answers from 50 different viewpoints. No doubt you will believe your answer is the correct one.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You are a tricky customer and evasive.

So how about you three guys have a go at my question. Three good reasons why republicans would like a UI?

JasonStatham

downcow wrote: »

So how about you three guys have a go at my question. Three good reasons why republicans would like a UI?

I'm no republican, but surely the main one is to completely remove English administration from the island of Ireland and stop the likes of Johnson/Gove/Cummings/Brexit-types et al. from making more stupid decisions which adversly affect the island.

Do you guess/know some reasons ? Could you enlighten us? I'd be interested to know your take on republican's reasons.

downcow

JasonStatham wrote: »

I'm no republican, but surely the main one is to completely remove English administration from the island of Ireland and stop the likes of Johnson/Gove/Cummings/Brexit-types et al. from making more stupid decisions which adversly affect the island.

Do you guess/know some reasons ? Could you enlighten us? I'd be interested to know your take on republican's reasons.

Interesting. I wouldn’t have predicted that answer. That is just a passing government and like all countries the quality and policies of government change. I have mount doubt there were times in the past and times again on the future where Brit government will/was more appealing than Irish government

downcow

Someone said to me the other day, could you give me three good reasons a republican would want a United Ireland. It got me thinking and I couldn’t think of one (I’m not a republican) so I posted it (a bit out of context) on an existing thread here and only got one answer and even it seemed off the wall to me.

Could anyone give 3 good reasons why a republican would want a United ireland?

FrancieBrady

Social and economic cohesion.

Pride - in generating your own living without subsidy.

An end to uncertainty...see Borders/Brexit, health security

An end to International intervention I.E. the operation of agreements just so a sizable part of the island can function.

Parity of esteem for all.

Restructuring of those things that have failed the people in both jurisdictions.

Most importantly, the chance to properly lay to rest the divisions that have and are still causing strife and death.


I could go on.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Interesting. I wouldn’t have predicted that answer. That is just a passing government and like all countries the quality and policies of government change. I have mount doubt there were times in the past and times again on the future where Brit government will/was more appealing than Irish government

It's not just a 'passing' government. The UK have set out on a road that is only going to cause more divergence. A tiny minority in the north wish to follow them, against the wishes of the vast vast majority on this island.

iwillhtfu

One possibility I could think of would be to secure our coastal borders and with it I would guess improve fishing grounds/rights, it's ridiculous having the border we currently have as it's no more secure than a revolving door. Not a republican btw but it would be nice to have a united island.

Junkyard Tom

NI is a sectarian failure that should never have been created to appease Unionists in the first place.

All Ireland integrity in a crises (such as a pandemic), investment, taxes, tourism, currency etc.

Ireland governed by people from Ireland and not English twats who don't care a damn about Unionists anyway.

The majority of people in the north are pro-EU and outward looking so a UI would bring them back in.

Watching the likes of Sammy Wilson and Gregory Campbell implode with rage would be a joy to experience.

The part of Ireland that got out from under British rule is a far better place to live than Scotland, Wales, and the part of Ireland that remained.

The economy in the north is broken and the six county factionalism will keep it that way.

Peace will be secured in the medium to long term.

One healthcare system formalised under one authority.

The end of cross border smuggling.

One team for international sports.

And so on, and so on.

Samsonsmasher

The Irish Defence Forces and the Gardaí simply do not have the manpower and resources or morale to control Northern Ireland if there are civil disturbances and terrorist activities by loyalists and republicans. If violence overflowed into the south enthusiasm for a united Ireland would evaporate rapidly.

tdf7187

downcow wrote: »

Someone said to me the other day, could you give me three good reasons a republican would want a United Ireland. It got me thinking and I couldn’t think of one (I’m not a republican) so I posted it (a bit out of context) on an existing thread here and only got one answer and even it seemed off the wall to me.

Could anyone give 3 good reasons why a republican would want a United ireland?

Guess you didn't think too hard, Junkyard Tom came up with about a dozen off-the-top of his head.

A Law

A half decent soccer team.

tdf7187

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The Irish Defence Forces and the Gardaí simply do not have the manpower and resources or morale to control Northern Ireland if there are civil disturbances and terrorist activities by loyalists and republicans.

This whole aspect is dramatically overplayed by partitionists. We are not in 1971 or even 1991. After a slow start, Gardai are dealing largely succesfullly with our own violent drugs gangs, who are a far bigger threat to peace and security than the loyalists or anti-GFA republicans (a microgroup within a microgroup) in 2021.