Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So Bonnie. I’ll forgive you if you tell me what you reckon a success looks like

Requiring the oversight of two sovereign governments in an Agreement and subsequent supplementary agreements would not be a typical example of a 'country' or state being a 'success'.

BonnieSituation

timthumbni wrote: »

Yes. Don’t speak about it. Cover it up. Very disturbing I agree.

Do we need to speak about it in this specific thread? It's a tad off topic.

If you wish to start a thread on the subject I would be more than happy to engage with you.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Yeah I guess you would love to be like us and have a region with a gdp of £209000 in your country. You could join us , if we allowed you. Try asking nicely. Please and pretty please would be a start

The only problem with that is that it has to keep about 50 million people afloat. We all know how unionists have more of a fondness to the half-crown than the crown!

statesaver

downcow wrote: »

As a ni prod from a prod Roi family. My dad told me that he had to get away from people like you to have a life. He could have stayed if he had took the old wafer on the tongue and suppressed his identity. Thank god he got out or I might be keeping my head down and saying ‘sure things are alright here’ ‘they are very good to us and let us survive’

That's the kind of mistrust, bigotry that my family got from relatives in Antrim. Looks like it's still alive. You live in a world of paranoia.

We do still go up there and visit great hurling country around Ballycastle.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Bonnie.
Is it
Wealth
Strong identity
Sporting success
Clean water
Lots of kinky sex
Fast cars
Access to heroine
Big presents from Santa
Pretty looking boys and girls

Tell us. How do you measure it

I'm letting you set the criteria. It could not be any easier for you.

Surely it's not that hard for you to name one singular thing about Northern Ireland from the last 100 years that would deem it a success?

jm08

downcow wrote: »

And your country has no respect for us

Respect needs to be earned. You had 70 years to try and make a go of Northern Ireland and build a decent society, but unionists didn't try and hence direct rule was instituted in the 70s, you wouldn't accept any compromises that would give the catholic minority any equality.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Requiring the oversight of two sovereign governments in an Agreement and subsequent supplementary agreements would not be a typical example of a 'country' or state being a 'success'.

How about if a country spends its entire existence fantasising over falling in love with its neighbour. Tried coercing it, tried violent abuse, tried getting its family to hand it over, tried to convince it but its attractive neighbour just wasn’t interested. Would you call that success

Zebra3

downcow wrote: »

Bonnie.
Is it
Wealth
Strong identity
Sporting success
Clean water
Lots of kinky sex
Fast cars
Access to heroine
Big presents from Santa
Pretty looking boys and girls

Tell us. How do you measure it

Brain drain, or lack of it, is a pretty good indicator.

downcow

statesaver wrote: »

That's the kind of mistrust, bigotry that my family got from relatives in Antrim. Looks like it's still alive. You live in a world of paranoia.

We do still go up there and visit great hurling country around Ballycastle.

Check your prejudice and bigotry. Ask yourself why you did not respond when the other posters slated my entire community (the one I responded to). You are demonstrated exactly why my dad got out of Roi

downcow

Zebra3 wrote: »

Brain drain, or lack of it, is a pretty good indicator.

Thanks. At last a parameter. I think we are ok on that front. Dispute the ira campaign trying to drive young people out

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

How about if a country spends its entire existence fantasising over falling in love with its neighbour. Tried coercing it, tried violent abuse, tried getting its family to hand it over, tried to convince it but its attractive neighbour just wasn’t interested. Would you call that success

You know that is bull.

Are you going to deal with this:

Requiring the oversight of two sovereign governments in an Agreement and subsequent supplementary agreements would not be a typical example of a 'country' or state being a 'success'.

...or are you going to keep underscoring the notion that NI has failed by hurling abuse and deflecting?

You have to come up with something or next year is going to be cringe-worthingly embarrassing

Are there any plans yet?

jm08

downcow wrote: »

As a ni prod from a prod Roi family. My dad told me that he had to get away from people like you to have a life. He could have stayed if he had took the old wafer on the tongue and suppressed his identity. Thank god he got out or I might be keeping my head down and saying ‘sure things are alright here’ ‘they are very good to us and let us survive’

Thats a total load of cobblers. There was no issue about identity back then between protestants and catholics. The establishment protestants (lawyers, bankers, doctors etc) might have expressed themselves as Anglo-Irish (up to about 70 years ago), but they all now consider themselves Irish.



Take for example Garech Browne (son of Lord Orranmore and Oonagh Guinness and a Guinness heir). He called himself by his name in Irish Garech de Brún and founded Claddagh Records which is a traditional Irish music label who some of its musicians included The Chieftains.


By the way, the branch of the Guinness family that remained in Ireland consider themselves Irish (like Desmond Guinness). Arthur himself was Irish.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Set the parameters Bonnie. Tell us what success looks like and I’ll tell you if we’ve got there. Your a laugh

How about this index on quality of life.
Ireland has third highest quality of life in world, says UN report

Norway tops the rankings, with the UK in 15th place

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-has-third-highest-quality-of-life-in-world-says-un-report-1.4110646


Here is the index
http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/2019-human-development-index-ranking

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Thanks. At last a parameter. I think we are ok on that front. Dispute the ira campaign trying to drive young people out

Isn't the issue that they go to GB to university and just don't come back because of a lack of opportunities for them?

jm08

downcow wrote: »

How about if a country spends its entire existence fantasising over falling in love with its neighbour. Tried coercing it, tried violent abuse, tried getting its family to hand it over, tried to convince it but its attractive neighbour just wasn’t interested. Would you call that success

I think you must mean GB, because the Republic have never tried coercian in NI. We have the proud distinction of being one of the few countries in the world that have not invaded another country despite how the British Goverment partitioned the island.

Charles Babbage

downcow wrote: »

How about if a country spends its entire existence fantasising over falling in love with its neighbour. Tried coercing it, tried violent abuse, tried getting its family to hand it over, tried to convince it but its attractive neighbour just wasn’t interested. Would you call that success

Trying to get a squatter to pay rent, more like.

Sunny Disposition

I think the unionists here are taking some of this the wrong way, it genuinely would be very interesting to hear their views on how it has been a success or failure.
Also there seems to be some criticism of nationalism, like saying child abuse by the Catholic Church is a stain on the Republican Of Ireland. Obviously it is, but isn’t it also a stain on NI?

FrancieBrady

Interesting that the centre piece of the 50 year event was supposed to be Ulster '71, a 'great' exhibition marking the success of the state.
But by the time it arrived all mention of it as a 'celebration of the state' had disappeared from publicity.

If the two lads here are anything to go by, the same can be expected next year.

Junkyard Tom

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

would be very interesting to hear their views on how it has been a success or failure.

They know it has been a failure, you'd almost feel sorry for them if they weren't so full of spite.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Thats a total load of cobblers. There was no issue about identity back then between protestants and catholics. The establishment protestants (lawyers, bankers, doctors etc) might have expressed themselves as Anglo-Irish (up to about 70 years ago), but they all now consider themselves Irish.



Take for example Garech Browne (son of Lord Orranmore and Oonagh Guinness and a Guinness heir). He called himself by his name in Irish Garech de Brún and founded Claddagh Records which is a traditional Irish music label who some of its musicians included The Chieftains.


By the way, the branch of the Guinness family that remained in Ireland consider themselves Irish (like Desmond Guinness). Arthur himself was Irish.

I think you are talking about the landed gentry. Not the Ulster Scots who were bottom of the pile

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

How about this index on quality of life.
Ireland has third highest quality of life in world, says UN report

Norway tops the rankings, with the UK in 15th place

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-has-third-highest-quality-of-life-in-world-says-un-report-1.4110646


Here is the index
http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/2019-human-development-index-ranking

15th sounds like success to me

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

I think you must mean GB, because the Republic have never tried coercian in NI. We have the proud distinction of being one of the few countries in the world that have not invaded another country despite how the British Goverment partitioned the island.

I think you’ll find that you claimed jurisdiction over another country. Granted you have now accepted that that was aggressive and dropped it

BonnieSituation

jm08 wrote: »

How about this index on quality of life.
Ireland has third highest quality of life in world, says UN report

Norway tops the rankings, with the UK in 15th place

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-has-third-highest-quality-of-life-in-world-says-un-report-1.4110646


Here is the index
http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/2019-human-development-index-ranking

What are you trying to achieve with facts?

You keep falling into the same trap here.

Downcow has no interest in engaging. So why do his homework for him?

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Downcow, would you consider Northern Ireland a success? If so, can you give us some examples that brought you to that conclusion?

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

15th sounds like success to me

NI, the 'country' you want to celebrate, is nowhere near 15th. It ranks around 44th on the UN Human Development Index.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I think you’ll find that you claimed jurisdiction over another country. Granted you have now accepted that that was aggressive and dropped it

Are you that precious?

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Do you have any issue with your neighbours from that substantial minority that wish NI did not exist? Or are you ignoring them as is your wont?

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Any chance you can answer if you think Northern Ireland has been a success? And if you think it has been a success, can you give us some examples?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I think you’ll find that you claimed jurisdiction over another country. Granted you have now accepted that that was aggressive and dropped it

We have jurisdiction over NI, by dint of the GFA. An agreement that has seen the quality of life for ALL the people improve. Unionists cannot enforce their religiously fundamentalist views and cultural exclusionary ideals on others anymore.

downcow

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I think the unionists here are taking some of this the wrong way, it genuinely would be very interesting to hear their views on how it has been a success or failure.
Also there seems to be some criticism of nationalism, like saying child abuse by the Catholic Church is a stain on the Republican Of Ireland. Obviously it is, but isn’t it also a stain on NI?

Sunny. I think you might be being genuine. So here’s the problem. There are a few posters on here who love to spend their time undermining ni.
We could play this game if it had rules. It would not matter what was brought forward as success they would say that’s not a measure of success but they won’t tell us what the measure is.
I love ni, love living in ni, everyone I know feels the same, nationalist and unionist. Yes we have different aspirations but we are doing ok. Like every country there are people going through tough times how are not doing ok. How do you measure all that.
I just know there is nowhere else on this planet I would rather be

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have jurisdiction over NI, by dint of the GFA. An agreement that has seen the quality of life for ALL the people improve. Unionists cannot enforce their religiously fundamentalist views and cultural exclusionary ideals on others anymore.

Why are you falling into his whataboutery trap?

He's refusing to answer a simple question.

You're better off just waiting for an answer to that tbh. Everything else we have rehashed before on several threads.

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Downcow, do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure? And if not, can you point to examples that show we are wrong in our assumption that it has been.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Why are you falling into his whataboutery trap?

He's refusing to answer a simple question.

You're better off just waiting for an answer to that tbh. Everything else we have rehashed before on several threads.

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Downcow, do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure? And if not, can you point to examples that show we are wrong in our assumption that it has been.

I think it has been more than adequately proven that he can't list any success for all the people of his wee state.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What are you trying to achieve with facts?

You keep falling into the same trap here.

Downcow has no interest in engaging. So why do his homework for him?

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Downcow, would you consider Northern Ireland a success? If so, can you give us some examples that brought you to that conclusion?

Haha haha. You don’t like facts. I thought so much.
Don’t let downcow know that UK is 15th out of over 200. Lol. He just screwed you lol