Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

True,but what a shot in the arm for NI business.I for one cautiously see it as an advantage for NI.Anyway,I have no time for the tories and news that labour popularity has pulled level with them in opinion polls is encouraging although too late to stop brexit.

.......and ignore the point. :rolleyes:

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

No. I asked you why ROI put Derry on their signs. Simple question

Because Derry is the translation of the original native name. Suck it up snowflake. The London prefix was done over the heads of the people of Derry. You're precious over the 'London' part because you get a little thrill out of its rotten sectarian colonial provenance.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You can think of it as an integral part all you want, but I don't see how you can't pass comment on it in the singular.

That you cannot pass comment on its apparent failings and are continuing to hide behind such an obtuse notion that you must comment upon the whole of the UK rather than on Northern Ireland specifically is bizarre, telling and quite frankly amateurish.

Do you pass comment on all aspects of British culture by reference to all other parts of Britain
I mean, if I want to understand the significance of the Southport LOL do I have to discuss Morris Dancing as well, while also referring to the night life of Brighton on the 1930s?

Can you see the problem here.

This thread is specifically about Northern Ireland and its failures or otherwise. So let's stay on topic shall we.

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Do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure this last century?

As far as I'm aware the only connection the orange lodge has with Southport is it celebrates the 12th there.
You can't grasp that British people see the UK as one,so it maybe England and Scotland as the largest components contribute more but we are all one.The unique position NI may be in as a result of brexit will strengthen its economy further which is another blow to republican hopes of a UI.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Because Derry is the translation of the original native name. Suck it up snowflake. The London prefix was done over the heads of the people of Derry. You're precious over the 'London' part because you get a little thrill out of its rotten sectarian colonial provenance.

Can't you see the irony Tom,arguing on which English name to call Derry/Londonderry?

LuasSimon

Looking at recent census 4 counties in Northern Ireland have Catholic - nationalist majority. The only two that don’t are Down and Antrim and Down is narrowing each census with south down a considerable nationalist area at this stage .
Be left with North Down , Antrim and East Derry the only areas continuing to vote for a divided island .

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

Can't you see the irony Tom,arguing on which English name to call Derry/Londonderry?

So we reinstate its original name Doire then Rob?

Good idea.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Oh deary me All is not as it seems. Lol
https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/ancient-bones-irish-celts

.....you haven't read the full article, have you?

I'll give you a clue, to quote your article,

"Essentially, Irish DNA existed in Ireland before the Celts ever set foot on the island."

The article states that the Irish have been here for about a thousand years longer than first thought. How you think anyone will be offended by this discovery (from almost fifteen years ago), I have no idea. Like many of your petty digs, poorly thought out.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

No. I asked you why ROI put Derry on their signs. Simple question

I'd imagine the same reason that if there was a hypothetical sign in London pointing over to a certain city in Germany, it would say Munich rather than München, or if it was pointing to a certain city in Italy it would say Naples rather than Napoli.

You're really stretching it to look for offense in a country having a place signposted with the name it is known as in that place.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

As far as I'm aware the only connection the orange lodge has with Southport is it celebrates the 12th there.
You can't grasp that British people see the UK as one,so it maybe England and Scotland as the largest components contribute more but we are all one.The unique position NI may be in as a result of brexit will strengthen its economy further which is another blow to republican hopes of a UI.

Okay?

So again ignoring my actual question.to comment upon the part of my post that shutdown your bullshít post beforehand.

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In case you missed it:

Do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure this last century?

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

Can't you see the irony Tom,arguing on which English name to call Derry/Londonderry?

Can you explain the irony please. I'm all ears.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Okay?

So again ignoring my actual question.to comment upon the part of my post that shutdown your bullshít post beforehand.

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In case you missed it:

Do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure this last century?

Behave yourself bonnie,you've been pestering Downcow and now me but you are unable to grasp the UK comes as a package.If you can't understand that it's your problem.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Can you explain the irony please. I'm all ears.[/QUOTE
I understand the Irish name is Doire, why make a fuss about which ENGLISH name is correct?

joe40

When "Northern Ireland" first became an entity 99 years ago why wasn't it given an accurate title. It's not exactly Northern Ireland and it's not Ulster.
I suppose "North East Ireland" didn't have the same ring to it.

The island of Ireland has the unusual distinction of been the only Island in the World where the most Northerly point is in the South.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So we reinstate its original name Doire then Rob?

Good idea.

Tom,I live near the border with Wales and they have duel language signage.I don't have a problem with it here in the UK or NI but if sufficient citizens object what can anyone do about it?

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

Behave yourself bonnie,you've been pestering Downcow and now me but you are unable to grasp the UK comes as a package.If you can't understand that it's your problem.

Pestering?

I can't help it if someone that professes to adore their "country" so much can't answer a simple question. Seems most unionists have a problem with answering questions asked of them.

You've managed to avoid it as well.

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Do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure and if not, can you give examples of its success?

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

if sufficient citizens object what can anyone do about it?

It's never been put to a vote in NI.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's never been put to a vote in NI.

Fair point,although as I recall no one objected to Welsh signage,I'm not sure what would have happened if a significant number objected at the time.

James Brown

RobMc59 wrote: »

I understand the Irish name is Doire, why make a fuss about which ENGLISH name is correct?

Translation Rob. The concept is a word can be translated into different languages. So for example 'londonderry' wouldn't be Derry in any language. Also Derry is the English language version of the Irish word.

You'd be cool with Berlin-Exeter I imagine.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Can you explain the irony please. I'm all ears.

I understand the Irish name is Doire, why make a fuss about which ENGLISH name is correct?

I don't think that's irony but as you say, why make a fuss of it?

Only people who make a big deal of it are beligerent unionists. They brought it up to distract from their inability to answer a simple question which is the focus of this thread.

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Anyway, back to my question, do you think Northern has been a failure for the last century?

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

Tom,I live near the border with Wales and they have duel language signage.I don't have a problem with it here in the UK or NI but if sufficient citizens object what can anyone do about it?

What do you think constitutes as "sufficient citizens"?

I'm sure you're okay with "sufficient citizens" wanting to have bilingual signage then. Likewise if the majority of the city chooses to call it Derry, then who are you to say they're wrong?

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Do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure for the last century?

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

Fair point,although as I recall no one objected to Welsh signage,I'm not sure what would have happened if a significant number objected at the time.

Do you not feel objections to Irish language signage are petty? Do you feel they're valid objections?

Do you feel your Britishness is diluted by seeing words like "Torra fy Ngwallt yn Hir" or "Yr Atal Genhedlaeth" about the place?

Do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure for the last century?

indioblack

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure for the last century?

Perhaps you're not being answered satisfactorily because of the way the question is being framed. What I took from the thread title was, is Northern Ireland "a failure 99 years on?" I assumed that meant the present day or in recent years.
I doubt if there is any state or country that can claim a century without failure, presumably in this case you're position is that Northern Ireland's creation and very existence is the century long failure.

BonnieSituation

indioblack wrote: »

Perhaps you're not being answered satisfactorily because of the way the question is being framed. What I took from the thread title was, is Northern Ireland "a failure 99 years on?" I assumed that meant the present day or in recent years.
I doubt if there is any state or country that can claim a century without failure, presumably in this case you're position is that Northern Ireland's creation and very existence is the century long failure.

You reckon? If it's a failure today then they would decry that statement and point out successes. Should not be that hard.

I'm asking a straightforward question. I've asked it in various formats and versions to assist them.

Apparently the lack of parameters are the main issue.

If the beligerent Unionists are not able to call it a failure then they should be able to point to noted successes that show how the partition of Ireland worked.

The premise of the OP is clear. I appreciate your attempt though to help them out of a hole however.

indioblack

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You reckon? If it's a failure today then they would decry that statement and point out successes. Should not be that hard.

I'm asking a straightforward question. I've asked it in various formats and versions to assist them.

Apparently the lack of parameters are the main issue.

If the beligerent Unionists are not able to call it a failure then they should be able to point to noted successes that show how the partition of Ireland worked.

The premise of the OP is clear. I appreciate your attempt though to help them out of a hole however.

Well, it wasn't difficult to figure out your position. What constitutes success and what would be the point of listing claimed achievements? In respect of your interpretation of the OP's question surely successes or failures would be less important than the objection to the Six Counties creation.

BonnieSituation

If the entity is not a failure they can point to aspects of it that demonstrate this. It's not that hard.

We don't have to go through every minute of every day of the last century to work it out.

Sure, some countries could be considered failures or successes while having peaks and troughs throughout their respective histories, but labelling them as a failure or a success shouldn't be too difficult when taking them as they are.

You don't need to delve too deep into this one.

It's either been a success or a failure as an entity over the last century...

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Whom we have all agreed were NEVER going to go to war against the British.

I don't agree, the Ulster Volunteers like the IRA were prepared to fight for their own cause. It wasn't all a bluff.

SO if the British had been democrats and said partition was not an option.....work it out for yourself Mark.

What nonsense is this? The British gave the North an option to stay with the Free State, outside of the Union or cede from it and rejoin the Union.
What you are calling for British subjugation of a part of the island. Irony of ironies.

No Mark...get the British to be democrats. Say NO to Unionists as they did from the Anglo Irish Agreement on.

Again, Irish people asserting their own version of democracy, good.
Unionists asserting their own version of democracy, bad.
:D:D

Having your cake and eating it.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Because Derry is the translation of the original native name. Suck it up snowflake. The London prefix was done over the heads of the people of Derry. You're precious over the 'London' part because you get a little thrill out of its rotten sectarian colonial provenance.

Not at all. I couldn’t care less what you write on your signs. I was simply asking why Roi put Derry on their road signs and uk put the official name.
Bonnie want evidence of ROI taking sides in ni issues. Then she said she needed something current. So I gave her this example.
I actually have a wee smile to myself when I see ROI demonstrating so publicly that the can’t tolerate any reference to uk.
It’s all a help in keeping northerners reminded that their would be no equality in a UI.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Not at all. I couldn’t care less what you write on your signs. I was simply asking why Roi put Derry on their road signs and uk put the official name.
Bonnie want evidence of ROI taking sides in ni issues. Then she said she needed something current. So I gave her this example.
I actually have a wee smile to myself when I see ROI demonstrating so publicly that the can’t tolerate any reference to uk.
It’s all a help in keeping northerners reminded that their would be no equality in a UI.

Please point exactly to the post where I sought "evidence of the ROI taking sides in NI issues".

Thank you.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What do you think constitutes as "sufficient citizens"?

I'm sure you're okay with "sufficient citizens" wanting to have bilingual signage then. Likewise if the majority of the city chooses to call it Derry, then who are you to say they're wrong?

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Do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure for the last century?

The majority seem happy with its name and allowing everyone to refer to it as they wish.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Do you not feel objections to Irish language signage are petty? Do you feel they're valid objections?

Do you feel your Britishness is diluted by seeing words like "Torra fy Ngwallt yn Hir" or "Yr Atal Genhedlaeth" about the place?

Do you think Northern Ireland has been a failure for the last century?

Bonnie is all questions but not many answers lol