Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

The evidence I need is of the process that was taken to erect these signs.
Was there a petition by local residents?
Was there a voted by local residents?
What was the vote for and against? (Percentage will do fine. Did 90% vote against bilingual signage but it was still installed)

None of the above. Imposed by the local council with no consultation with the local people

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

This is exactly the point of the question ably explained by my friend. So I guess you all understood it
In short, do you think the people of ni are somehow less loyal than the people of Roi ie will one follow the money while the other wouldn’t.

Again, I've no interest in this whataboutery.

I am interested in finding out the name of the town you referred to above however.

Any chance you can tell us?

While you're at it, perhaps you can answer the requests made to you all week long from myself?

Thank you.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

None of the above. Imposed by the local council with no consultation with the local people

What town was this in?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Why do you bother? You're becoming boring now. If you've no intention to engage then don't bother. This has nothing to do with the questions I've asked. This is your tangent that you've latched onto as predicted.

@Capt'n, see what happens when you give him an inch?

---

You've been asked for the name of the town in question, at the very least, and you can't provide it so I honestly don't know what else you can ask of anyone else while we're still waiting on that piece of information.

So I think it would be best if you go off and figure that out.

We'll continue on the discussion then. Good boy.

So Bonnie has refused to say whether or not he believes what some posters are saying here that Irish signs are only erected with consent and that they are not erected in unionist areas without consent of the local people.

If anyone else would like to answer it then I will certainly evidence it. And maybe let me know how many signs in how many unionist areas you would like me to evidence and tell me whether you would like phots before or after the local communities have defaced or removed them.

How’s that?
These untruths being presented on here need challenged

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I only engaged with you on this matter to find out the name of the town. I've no interest outside of that. Of course as predicted you've moved the goalposts.

Your posting style is pathetic.

What's the name of the "hamlet" that you referred to above?

There is zero point in me posting it if you already know it’s happening. That would be a waste of all our time.
You tell me it’s not happening and I’ll show you it is.
How’s that? Fair enough?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

So Bonnie has refused to say whether or not he believes what some posters are saying here that Irish signs are only erected with consent and that they are not erected in unionist areas without consent of the local people.

If anyone else would like to answer it then I will certainly evidence it. And maybe let me know how many signs in how many unionist areas you would like me to evidence and tell me whether you would like phots before or after the local communities have defaced or removed them.

How’s that?
These untruths being presented on here need challenged

How can I stand over anything you've said when I have no idea what town you're on about?

Do you have any idea how a debate and discussion should work?

Well let's challenge them.

What's the name of the town in question?

Remember, you're he one making accusations, so back them up please.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

There is zero point in me posting it if you already know it’s happening. That would be a waste of all our time.
You tell me it’s not happening and I’ll show you it is.
How’s that? Fair enough?

But I don't know if it's happening or not. I need detail.

Okay so, let's bring this to its logical conclusion:

Tell us the name of the town.

FrancieBrady

Forget signs in Irish and get the popcorn in. Are we in Union endgame finally?

https://www.ft.com/content/9906e0d4-0c29-4f5f-9cb0-130c75a2f7a7

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But I don't know if it's happening or not. I need detail.

Okay so, let's bring this to its logical conclusion:

Tell us the name of the town.

My goodness. That took 10 pages of repetitive posting but I commend you for accepting that you don’t know if Irish signs are being put up in unionist areas without their consent. This is a now very different from what posters were saying several pages ago - they were saying it doesn’t happen (can’t even remember if you were one of them)

So since you don’t know whether it is happening or not I will give you examples of it so as in future you will be able to tell you nationalist friends that it is happening
I will have a wee look for a link or two now.

Thanks for you cooperation

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

My goodness. That took 10 pages of repetitive posting but I commend you for accepting that you don’t know if Irish signs are being put up in unionist areas without their consent. This is a now very different from what posters were saying several pages ago - they were saying it doesn’t happen (can’t even remember if you were one of them)

So since you don’t know whether it is happening or not I will give you examples of it so as in future you will be able to tell you nationalist friends that it is happening
I will have a wee look for a link or two now.

Thanks for you cooperation

What are you on about?

What do you need a link for? You said you knew of a "hamlet" near you that this occurred in. Tell us the name of the town. You don't have to do anything more than that.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What are you on about?

What do you need a link for? You said you knew of a "hamlet" near you that this occurred in. Tell us the name of the town. You don't have to do anything more than that.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/council-still-pushing-irish-signs-after-25-destroyed-1081643%3famp
There you go.
And the particular hamlet I was talking about is Ballyward Just asked a resident today and he confirmed it is 95+% PUL community. They are completely opposed to the Irish sign in there midst and will remove it as often as it is erected without consent (he says)

Interesting how nationalist politicians refer to any attacks on these signs as sectarian but also say the language belongs to everyone lol

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Ballyward

Thanks.

That wasn't so hard.

Is it a "Welcome to Newry, Mourne and Down" sign that we're talking about?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Thanks.

That wasn't so hard.

Is it a "Welcome to Newry, Mourne and Down" sign that we're talking about?

In that specific case, yes indeed it is.
You are on fire now bonnie!

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

In that specific case, yes indeed it is.
You are on fire now bonnie!

Are these the cases where street signs are being imposed upon people who don't want it, rather than signs welcoming them to the district in English and Irish?

Because what you've provided is a bit of a reach of an "imposition" as opposed to what you've been jabbering on about the last few days.

The sign merely translates the district place name into the language from which it's derived. Where's the problem?

Much like your own username which is derived from Irish and you have no problem with that.

I like how the complaints from locals seem to be that the signs are being replaced and not that they're being vandalised in the first place. You wouldn't
want violence and vandalism to win out now would you DC, me oul segotia?

Delta2113

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Forget signs in Irish and get the popcorn in. Are we in Union endgame finally?

https://www.ft.com/content/9906e0d4-0c29-4f5f-9cb0-130c75a2f7a7

- Brexit could bring down the Irish Government. Civil disorder both sides off the border before Christmas a possibility. Dangerous times ahead.

Fionn1952

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Are these the cases where street signs are being imposed upon people who don't want it, rather than signs welcoming them to the district in English and Irish?

Because what you've provided is a bit of a reach of an "imposition" as opposed to what you've been jabbering on about the last few days.

The sign merely translates the district place name into the language from which it's derived. Where's the problem?

Much like your own username which is derived from Irish and you have no problem with that.

I like how the complaints from locals seem to be that the signs are being replaced and not that they're being vandalised in the first place. You wouldn't
want violence and vandalism to win out now would you DC, me oul segotia?

That would be Ballyward.....who's name comes from the Irish for Town/Place of the Bard?

Imagine being afraid of or offended by the language that is the source of a place's name appearing somewhere in that place....

jm08

downcow wrote: »

None of the above. Imposed by the local council with no consultation with the local people

The signage in question isn't road signage (I've looked it up) imposed on unionists. The problem that unionism has is that Newry, Mourne and Down Council operate a dual language policy with all their council buildings etc. are in English and Irish. From what I see, unionists are very much in the minority on the Council (something like 8 Unionist councillor out of about 40).



http://www.thedownrecorder.co.uk/pages/index.asp?title=Councillors_disagree_over_dual_language_road_signs


As for road signage - there seems to be consultation, so its wrong to say that there is none.

“The process to erect dual language signs is only initiated upon request by residents of the relevant community. Cllr Lewis’ implication that the Irish language is being forced down anyone’s throat echoes the unnecessarily divisive fear-mongering of a bygone era. “While some of his comments regarding a driver reading Irish signs are preposterous, they unfortunately seem indicative of the stubborn opposition to anything that reflects the Irish identity.”
Giving additional context to the process of bilingual signage, Cllr Mason said that all parties were given the opportunity to contribute to the development of the street name policy by Newry, Mourne and Down Council.
She said the that the policy agreed on is both “fair and inclusive”.

Photo of contentious Mounre & Down District boundary signs.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-41348278

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Are these the cases where street signs are being imposed upon people who don't want it, rather than signs welcoming them to the district in English and Irish?

Because what you've provided is a bit of a reach of an "imposition" as opposed to what you've been jabbering on about the last few days.

The sign merely translates the district place name into the language from which it's derived. Where's the problem?

Much like your own username which is derived from Irish and you have no problem with that.

I like how the complaints from locals seem to be that the signs are being replaced and not that they're being vandalised in the first place. You wouldn't
want violence and vandalism to win out now would you DC, me oul segotia?

I am not complaining to you, I am educating you.
You said clearly that you did not know this was happening ie Irish signs being put up in unionist areas without their consent.

Now you know.
Ever day is a school day!

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

That would be Ballyward.....who's name comes from the Irish for Town/Place of the Bard?

Imagine being afraid of or offended by the language that is the source of a place's name appearing somewhere in that place....

See above post. You were one of the people who thought this wasn’t happening, so a thank you would suffice lol

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

The signage in question isn't road signage (I've looked it up) imposed on unionists. The problem that unionism has is that Newry, Mourne and Down Council operate a dual language policy with all their council buildings etc. are in English and Irish. From what I see, unionists are very much in the minority on the Council (something like 8 Unionist councillor out of about 40).

As my last post. I was just educating you ðŸ‘

maccored

downcow wrote: »

See above post. You were one of the people who thought this wasn’t happening, so a thank you would suffice lol

"Imagine being afraid of or offended by the language that is the source of a place's name appearing somewhere in that place...."

i second this. All youre doing downcow is showing just how silly Unionists can be. Why are you afraid of a sign with irish on it anyway? its stupid reasons like this that cause issues. learn to live and let live.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

See above post. You were one of the people who thought this wasn’t happening, so a thank you would suffice lol

Really, Downcow? Once more you're demonstrating your questionable relationship with the truth.

I haven't once commented on whether or not this occurs. If you can provide a quote of me saying anything approaching what you're attributing to me, I'll happily apologise and withdraw my remarks about your consistent dishonesty and manipulation of the truth.

Of course, the counterpoint would be if you can't provide a quote, you'll apologise and withdraw your remark.

downcow

maccored wrote: »

"Imagine being afraid of or offended by the language that is the source of a place's name appearing somewhere in that place...."

i second this. All youre doing downcow is showing just how silly Unionists can be. Why are you afraid of a sign with irish on it anyway? its stupid reasons like this that cause issues. learn to live and let live.

Not afraid or offended I just want equality. If you get upset about a flag on a lamp post then expect others to get upset by the alternative method of marking territory

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Really, Downcow? Once more you're demonstrating your questionable relationship with the truth.

I haven't once commented on whether or not this occurs. If you can provide a quote of me saying anything approaching what you're attributing to me, I'll happily apologise and withdraw my remarks about your consistent dishonesty and manipulation of the truth.

Of course, the counterpoint would be if you can't provide a quote, you'll apologise and withdraw your remark.

Of course I will. Let me have a wee look back and I’ll get back to you.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Really, Downcow? Once more you're demonstrating your questionable relationship with the truth.

I haven't once commented on whether or not this occurs. If you can provide a quote of me saying anything approaching what you're attributing to me, I'll happily apologise and withdraw my remarks about your consistent dishonesty and manipulation of the truth.

Of course, the counterpoint would be if you can't provide a quote, you'll apologise and withdraw your remark.

I was wrong and apologise. It was several other posters who said it wasn’t happening.

I appreciate now that you are more educated on the situation in ni than some other posters, and that you did know that Irish language signs were being erected in communities that are opposed to them.

Fair play to you because so many others on here are wearing blinkers on this issue

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Irish language signs were being erected in communities that are opposed to them.

They're multilingual signs with the Irish Language included. What Unionists want is English only signage, they want supremacy.

It's embarrassing.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Not afraid or offended I just want equality. If you get upset about a flag on a lamp post then expect others to get upset by the alternative method of marking territory

Rubbish. The equivalent act would be people objecting to English language signs...yes, a ridiculous notion, to be offended by or fearful of a language.

The over reaction to normalising the use of fleg was just that, another over reaction.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Rubbish. The equivalent act would be people objecting to English language signs...yes, a ridiculous notion, to be offended by or fearful of a language.

The over reaction to normalising the use of fleg was just that, another over reaction.

Francie. It’s a wee bit of coloured cloth. How could that possibly offend you?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. It’s a wee bit of coloured cloth. How could that possibly offend you?

It doesn't.

I wnt a normal society, that is why you were asked to fly it normally, like elsewhere in your union. But the auld exceptionalism took hold again. You only want to be like the rest of the union when it suits your bigoted, religiously and culturally suprematist ways.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It doesn't.

I wnt a normal society, that is why you were asked to fly it normally, like elsewhere in your union. But the auld exceptionalism took hold again. You only want to be like the rest of the union when it suits your bigoted, religiously and culturally suprematist ways.

So Francie. Maybe you will tell me the difference, in a divided society with contested nationality's, of some one putting up the flag of the country or a sign with the ancient language of the country on it. When both are seen as sensitive and both have been used to mark territory and wind up the other community. Both are legitimate expressions of identity and in a society that is not divided would be fine.
I know you get it so I’m actually not interested in playing this silly game any longer where some posters are pretending
Nationalist cultural expression = benign
Unionist cultural expression = offensive

It actually just demonstrates the arrogance and prejudice of some sections of the nationalist community