Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

Sunny Disposition

Was kinda stunned when I saw Harris on Unquiet Graves last night. I dunno, but his appointment always did seem very questionable, but he seemed like a decent sort. His involvement in that appeal would not inspire confidence though.

downcow

Thought this was an interesting quote referring to thgat city you detest

Mr Mulligan, who also runs a specialist poteen bar in Dublin, said the drink is enjoying a renaissance in many parts of the world and is being embraced by a new generation of cocktail enthusiasts.
His most popular cocktail is a twist on the classic Irish coffee formula, which he calls a 'Belfast Coffee' - it comprises poteen, cold-brew coffee and whipped cream.
Explaining the cocktail's name, he said: "For me, just like poteen, Belfast is the only city in Ireland that will never be twee. Its got an edge and a character and it's proud of its heritage."

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Thought this was an interesting quote referring to thgat city you detest

Mr Mulligan, who also runs a specialist poteen bar in Dublin, said the drink is enjoying a renaissance in many parts of the world and is being embraced by a new generation of cocktail enthusiasts.
His most popular cocktail is a twist on the classic Irish coffee formula, which he calls a 'Belfast Coffee' - it comprises poteen, cold-brew coffee and whipped cream.
Explaining the cocktail's name, he said: "For me, just like poteen, Belfast is the only city in Ireland that will never be twee. Its got an edge and a character and it's proud of its heritage."

:D:D He's trying to sell you something downcow, coz your worth it.

Marketing guff is now being presented as 'evidence' that NI has not been a political and social failure...dear me.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Thought this was an interesting quote referring to thgat city you detest

Mr Mulligan, who also runs a specialist poteen bar in Dublin, said the drink is enjoying a renaissance in many parts of the world and is being embraced by a new generation of cocktail enthusiasts.
His most popular cocktail is a twist on the classic Irish coffee formula, which he calls a 'Belfast Coffee' - it comprises poteen, cold-brew coffee and whipped cream.
Explaining the cocktail's name, he said: "For me, just like poteen, Belfast is the only city in Ireland that will never be twee. Its got an edge and a character and it's proud of its heritage."

Presumably he'll be able to retain rules-of-origin EU protections for his Irish product thanks to Dublin's pressure on keeping Ireland as one economic unit. If Unionists get their way he'll likely have to move to one of the 26 counties, along with many more businesses, to keep EU privileges.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Presumably he'll be able to retain rules-of-origin EU protections for his Irish product thanks to Dublin's pressure on keeping Ireland as one economic unit. If Unionists get their way he'll likely have to move to one of the 26 counties, along with many more businesses, to keep EU privileges.

The bars in Dublin is`nt it?

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

The bars in Dublin is`nt it?

It's made up North I think.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's made up North I think.

Correct and right.

Dyr

blanch152 wrote: »

Funny post.

Fine Gael kicked Duffy and his pals out of their party in 1934 because they didn't agree with fascism. Where did they go?

They didn't disappear, they took up with Sean Russell, Sinn Fein and the IRA, and kept siding with the Nazis during the war. so the party with the most recent involvement with fascism is your party Sinn Fein. What's more, while Fine Gael have wiped Duffy from their history book, Sinn Fein are still proud of their links to guys like Russell.

Not as funny as your rámeis. O'Duffy was never kicked out of FG, he resigned from the party, nor were the Blueshirts kicked out either.

markodaly

jm08 wrote: »

Well my point is that it didn't turn into a fascist state because De Valera came to power. It would have been quite likely if Fine Gael/Blue Shirts had remained in power with O'Duffy as Garda Commissioner.

Nonesense.

Read up an anything Diarmuid Ferriter has to say about this period. O'Duffy had little support if any and with anything related to Irish history, it has to be seen from the lens of the Civil War, hence why the group came to be.

In February 1932, the Fianna Fáil party was elected to lead the Irish Free State government. On 18 March 1932, the new government suspended the Public Safety Act, lifting the ban on a number of organisations including the Irish Republican Army. Some IRA political prisoners were also released around the same time. The IRA and many released prisoners began a "campaign of unrelenting hostility" against those associated with the former Cumann na nGaedheal government. There were many cases of intimidation, attacks on persons, and the breaking-up of Cumann na nGaedheal political meetings in the coming months. In view of the increased activities of the IRA, National Army Commandant Ned Cronin founded the Army Comrades Association in early 1932. As its name suggested, it was designed for Irish Army veterans, a society for former members of the Free State army. The Blueshirts felt that freedom of speech was being repressed, and began to provide security at Cumann na nGaedheal events. This led to several serious clashes between the IRA and the ACA. In August 1932, Dr. Thomas F. O'Higgins, a Cumann na nGaedheal TD, became the leader of the ACA. By September 1932 it had over 30,000 members.

So Mark, whats your take on ''Unquiet Graves'' (on RTE player if you have not seen it yet). It might help you understand why Irish people are not inclined to celebrate the activities of the RIC/RUC/British Army in Ireland.
https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/unquiet-graves/147130920020

Is this supposed to be a retort or something?

The British did some bad ****, something I never denied, but that justifies everything the PIRA/SF have done?
Is that how it works?

If it were up to me, you either commemorate all historical events and groupings or none. This pix and mix, bull**** because one was on the losing side is just childish.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Is this supposed to be a retort or something?

The British did some bad ****, something I never denied, but that justifies everything the PIRA/SF have done?
Is that how it works?

If it were up to me, you either commemorate all historical events and groupings or none. This pix and mix, bull**** because one was on the losing side is just childish.

Jesus, what hat doffing nonsense is this?

You cannot just switch off a conflict/war you are deliberately stoking, that is never how it works.

Here we have the British stoking a conflict/war and all you can do is blame the other side????

You guys ignoring the import of this is just criminal tbh. You should be ashamed of yourself and your hollow faux outrage.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

Nonesense.

Read up an anything Diarmuid Ferriter has to say about this period. O'Duffy had little support if any and with anything related to Irish history, it has to be seen from the lens of the Civil War, hence why the group came to be.

So how come O'Duffy was the first President of Fine Gael if he was so peripheral?

The British did some bad ****, something I never denied, but that justifies everything the PIRA/SF have done?
Is that how it works?

But... but the PIRA etc. were much worse.... Actually, no they were not. Approx. 150 murders of innocent catholics and justice for any of them.

If it were up to me, you either commemorate all historical events and groupings or none. This pix and mix, bull**** because one was on the losing side is just childish.

Murdering people isn't an historical 'event' to be commemorated, except with condemnation. Michael D. knows what he is talking about.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/president-higgins-says-british-must-face-up-to-their-history-of-reprisals-1.4358829

markodaly

jm08 wrote: »

So how come O'Duffy was the first President of Fine Gael if he was so peripheral?

Who is the president of FG now? No Google, just tell us straight up.

But... but the PIRA etc. were much worse.... Actually, no they were not. Approx. 150 murders of innocent catholics and justice for any of them.

The PIRA killed more Catholics than the British Security forces, much more in fact.

Murdering people isn't an historical 'event' to be commemorated, except with condemnation. Michael D. knows what he is talking about.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/president-higgins-says-british-must-face-up-to-their-history-of-reprisals-1.4358829

Then why do we commemorate the Rising? What exactly was that about.
Was it a bake off, or was it a bunch of guys running around Dublin killing people and occupying some buildings?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jesus, what hat doffing nonsense is this?

You cannot just switch off a conflict/war you are deliberately stoking, that is never how it works.

Here we have the British stoking a conflict/war and all you can do is blame the other side????

You guys ignoring the import of this is just criminal tbh. You should be ashamed of yourself and your hollow faux outrage.

Again, what exactly is your point, if you have one?
Oh, I get it, PIRA/SF good as gold, everyone else bad, always bad.


Is that it, in the FrancieBrady school of revisionist history? Blowing up little toddlers is a good thing right? The end justifies the means, but in this case, the end was a NI still ruled by Westminister.
What a joke!

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Again, what exactly is your point, if you have one?
Oh, I get it, PIRA/SF good as gold, everyone else bad, always bad.


Is that it, in the FrancieBrady school of revisionist history? Blowing up little toddlers is a good thing right? The end justifies the means, but in this case, the end was a NI still ruled by Westminister.
What a joke!

No Mark...it's your one sided excusing narrative...as much a problem in the conflict/war as anything else was.

Children got killed from the very start. When two governments abdicate responsibility and one stokes and flames thate conflict/war that inevitably breaks out then people are going to get killed.

That is why the only position to have here is that it was ALL wrong right from the start,

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is why the only position to have here is that it was ALL wrong right from the start,

Then you agree, either commemorate all sides, or none at all.
You cant pick and chose therefore.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Then you agree, either commemorate all sides, or none at all.
You cant pick and chose therefore.

I have already said I wouldn't think it right to celebrate the IRA at a state level Mark. As usual you are probably only taking in what you want to take in.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No Mark...it's your one sided excusing narrative...as much a problem in the conflict/war as anything else was.

Children got killed from the very start. When two governments abdicate responsibility and one stokes and flames thate conflict/war that inevitably breaks out then people are going to get killed.

That is why the only position to have here is that it was ALL wrong right from the start,

It's all the government's fault, the standard mantra of Sinn Fein.

It simple isn't.

Nobody made Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness organise a terrorist organisation with their friend Storey. You are a bit like that bloke in the pub having one more pint because his friend twisted his arm.

What you are really saying Francie is that those who joined the IRA didn't have the moral courage to do what is right and not kill their fellow men.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It's all the government's fault, the standard mantra of Sinn Fein.

It simple isn't.

Nobody made Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness organise a terrorist organisation with their friend Storey. You are a bit like that bloke in the pub having one more pint because his friend twisted his arm.

What you are really saying Francie is that those who joined the IRA didn't have the moral courage to do what is right and not kill their fellow men.

Nobody said it was 'all' anyone's fault.

To listen to the partitionists now shrill cry there is only one side at fault though.

I understand blanch that nobody in the real world can behave as the moral paragons you guys are, in your bedrooms and at your keyboards.

I believe what those at the time of partition believed, including the Unionist COI, that it would break down into conflict. Most sectarian bigoted states in the world have and will continue to break down...as you rattle off your high moral ground missives.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have already said I wouldn't think it right to celebrate the IRA at a state level Mark. As usual you are probably only taking in what you want to take in.

Would you extend that to all anti-Treaty traitors?
What about the Rising, or are they exceptions?

downcow

blanch152 wrote: »

It's all the government's fault, the standard mantra of Sinn Fein.

It simple isn't.

Nobody made Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness organise a terrorist organisation with their friend Storey. You are a bit like that bloke in the pub having one more pint because his friend twisted his arm.

What you are really saying Francie is that those who joined the IRA didn't have the moral courage to do what is right and not kill their fellow men.

These three men were not just running a terrorist organisation. I have not examined terrorist organisations across the world, and therefore I may be being unfair to single the IRA out for special attention on this, but these three men were running an organisation that was, controlling communities, allowing their members to rape women and abuse children. These three men were managing the movement of child abusers around safe houses. These men became ruthless, much of the story still to be told.
They had a media persona that suggested something very different, but they were as ruthless as the worst Mafia bosses.
Can you even imagine being tied to a chair with Bobby Storey asking the questions? Horrifying
Then we have Adams. Seemingly the true Republican, but when it suited his agenda he was happy to set a unit of the IRA up for slaughter. His ruthlessness was also evident when the hunger strike would have ended after the fourth death, but for Adam's intervention and insistence that it would continue - what a armchair hero.
And then we have McGuinness. Lauded as the peacemaker. Probably the most ruthless of all three. Overseen horrendous attacks, some just blatantly sectarian - and all the time he was in the pay of the Brits who he claimed to be fighting.

How anyone on here can admire these people is simply beyond me. And this is not one-sided by me. I detest and condemn Johnny Adair in exactly the same way as Martin McGuinness.
I also have a fair degree of sympathy with lots of the footsoldiers on both sides, who set out genuinely to do what they thought was right - unfortunately being under the control of people like the men listed above soon changed most of their moral codes.

This is what makes Unionists sick to their stomach about Sinn Fein. They eulogise these people who have murdered their neighbours. My local MP has his advice centre named after two people who murdered my neighbours.
If a Unionist party done this I would be equally as disgusted. Would I ever vote for anybody who sat in the Johnny Adair advice centre? - not a chance. This is what Unionists just cannot understand about a large percentage of their nationalist neighbours

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Would you extend that to all anti-Treaty traitors?
What about the Rising, or are they exceptions?

Long ago Mark I was advocating no celebrations of offensive events, parties or individuals in this contested space.

I am not the selective one, cherrypicking those who engaged in 'good' violence - to achieve aims - from those who engaged in 'bad' violence.
It's the party you favour and others who like to engage in that.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

Who is the president of FG now? No Google, just tell us straight up.

The role of President has changed in Fine Gael from back then where there are now two separate roles as President/Chairman and Leader. If you look up Leaders of Fine Gael on Wiki, Eoin O'Duffy is the first one (followed by Cosgrave and Mulcahy). Fine Gael have tried to wipe this fact out in their own history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_Gael

The PIRA killed more Catholics than the British Security forces, much more in fact.

We don't know that because the British Security Forces got away with most of them (including the 150 by the Glenane gang that included the people killed in the Dublin & Monaghan bombings).

Then why do we commemorate the Rising? What exactly was that about.



Was it a bake off, or was it a bunch of guys running around Dublin killing people and occupying some buildings?

It was one event that lead to the creation of our state.


The British Army / RIC / RUC were an organisation that oppressed and killed their own people on a continual basis purely because they were Irish and or catholic and regarded as inferior to British people.

JohnnyFlash

Colum Eastwood of the SDLP is playing an absolute blinder in the House of Commons these days.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Colum Eastwood of the SDLP is playing an absolute blinder in the House of Commons these days.

Has he stopped Brexit? How's he getting on with the Internal Market Bill?

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has he stopped Brexit? How's he getting on with the Internal Market Bill?

Of course he hasn't. What a stupid question.


The dude is doing an amazing job at the moment though. His speeches in Westminster are representing the nationalist voice like few have done before over there.



Good to see the Alliance Party and even the UUP agreeing with much of his sentiment.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Of course he hasn't. What a stupid question.


The dude is doing an amazing job at the moment though. His speeches in Westminster are representing the nationalist voice like few have done before over there.



Good to see the Alliance Party and even the UUP agreeing with much of his sentiment.

Ineffective though. He couldn't be told. The British will do what they want with northern Ireland, they always have.

Hellrazer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The British will do what they want with northern Ireland, they always have.

And that's exactly why the IRA were created. We`d have been in a lot more **** without the IRA etc.

Im not condoning anything they did but the North was completely different 50 years ago.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has he stopped Brexit? How's he getting on with the Internal Market Bill?

Was he elected on the premise that he could 'stop' Brexit?
Is this something he claimed he could do?

SF tactic 101 right here. It is like every day is an electionereing day and no party apart from SF is safe, but sure we all know you only voted for SF the first time out, the last time. :)

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ineffective though. He couldn't be told. The British will do what they want with northern Ireland, they always have.

Even after the PIRA murder campaign that killed over 2000 people, the British still do what they want with NI?

My oh my! What a waste of time all that was.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

Even after the PIRA murder campaign that killed over 2000 people, the British still do what they want with NI?

My oh my! What a waste of time all that was.

Actually, its the English do what they want with the rest of the UK.