Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

markodaly

jm08 wrote: »

The role of President has changed in Fine Gael from back then where there are now two separate roles as President/Chairman and Leader. If you look up Leaders of Fine Gael on Wiki, Eoin O'Duffy is the first one (followed by Cosgrave and Mulcahy). Fine Gael have tried to wipe this fact out in their own history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_Gael

And where he was pushed out of the role 13 months later by FG.
People over-egg the pudding with O'Duffy and some buzzwords aside, was not the Irish Adolf Hitler some cast him as.

We don't know that

Oh but we do.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/cgi-bin/tab2.pl

It was one event that leads to the creation of our state.

Should we commerate anti-treaty forces?

markodaly

jm08 wrote: »

Actually, its the English do what they want with the rest of the UK.

There is no 'English' Army.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

There is no 'English' Army.

So? I didn't claim there was an 'English' Army.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Was he elected on the premise that he could 'stop' Brexit?
Is this something he claimed he could do?

SF tactic 101 right here. It is like every day is an electionereing day and no party apart from SF is safe, but sure we all know you only voted for SF the first time out, the last time. :)

SO what is the point of sending a nationalist to Westminster mark....you have the evidence now...do tell us.

What has the SDLP achieved?

The FACTS are that a consensus among Dublin parties has achieved for NI not the SDLP waffling in the HoC, however 'brilliantly'. It wouldn't matter if it was SF or the SDLP waffling in Westminster or even the DUP or UUP...if the English centric Westminster parliament want to do something NI won't matter or figure in their concerns. How much evidence of that do you need at this stage?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Even after the PIRA murder campaign that killed over 2000 people, the British still do what they want with NI?

My oh my! What a waste of time all that was.

Yes mark. Which is why there is still a UI campaign, growing in strength everyday of the week.
Had there been no 'campaign' they would be still beating and shooting people of the streets sadly. They don't and never cared. Happily though they are tied to an international agreement were they cannot do that anymore and they cannot do what they want, even though they have tried and tried.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

And where he was pushed out of the role 13 months later by FG.
People over-egg the pudding with O'Duffy and some buzzwords aside, was not the Irish Adolf Hitler some cast him as.

This is like blanch's opinion of Maria Cahill...she was only a dissident for a wee while.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

And where he was pushed out of the role 13 months later by FG.

You claimed that Fine Gael were going to sack him anyway as Garda Commissioner before Dev did the job. It turns out Dev sacked him and Fine Gael made him their Leader.

People over-egg the pudding with O'Duffy and some buzzwords aside, was not the Irish Adolf Hitler some cast him as.

He was a nasty sectarian bigot.

Should we commerate anti-treaty forces?

No. The State should be able to commemorate significant events in its history, not the people or their organisations. If the Gardai want to commemorate the RIC, let them at it, but don't expect the people of Ireland to be hypocrits about their commemorations. We shouldn't expect Unionists to commemorate 1916 or the formation of the Irish Republic, either (or nationalists to celebrate the Glorious 12th, just be tolerant of them).

Five Eighth

I posted a series of questions on this thread (#150) directed at unionist contributors but no answers have been forthcoming. Now I submit a hypothetical scenario to encourage some reflection:
Scotland has voted overwhelmingly to leave the UK. There exits, however, a million or so ‘English/Highlanders’ in the north of Scotland, most of whom voted to remain in the union. There are also around 1 million Scots living in the same region and they have voted by a very large majority for independence. The ‘English/Highlanders’ demand to remain within the UK and have put forward the following plan:
The Highlands should be divided into two parts; one-third will remain in Scotland while the other two-thirds will form part of the UK. The reason for the division of the Highlands is that most of the ‘English/Highlanders’ live in the North-east part of the region. This means that this two-thirds part of the Highlands would have a Unionist majority. The newly formed ‘Northern Scotland’ will also have a sizeable Scots minority. Scotland will be partitioned.
In pursuit of their aims, the ‘English/Highlanders’ have threatened violence, signed a ‘Highlands Covenant’ and recruited over 100,000 men to act as a militia.
Some questions to consider:
• Is the position taken by ‘English/Highlander’ unionists democratic?
• Is the creation of a new state i.e. ‘Northern Scotland’ democratic?
• Will the native Scots, now partitioned from their fellow-scots, identify as Highlanders? Northern Scottish? British?
• Will the native Scots accept the new state? If not, what can they do?
• Is this new state likely to exhibit social cohesion, political stability and economic viability?
• Is this new state likely to be a success or failure?

indioblack

Five Eighth wrote: »

I posted a series of questions on this thread (#150) directed at unionist contributors but no answers have been forthcoming. Now I submit a hypothetical scenario to encourage some reflection:
Scotland has voted overwhelmingly to leave the UK. There exits, however, a million or so ‘English/Highlanders’ in the north of Scotland, most of whom voted to remain in the union. There are also around 1 million Scots living in the same region and they have voted by a very large majority for independence. The ‘English/Highlanders’ demand to remain within the UK and have put forward the following plan:
The Highlands should be divided into two parts; one-third will remain in Scotland while the other two-thirds will form part of the UK. The reason for the division of the Highlands is that most of the ‘English/Highlanders’ live in the North-east part of the region. This means that this two-thirds part of the Highlands would have a Unionist majority. The newly formed ‘Northern Scotland’ will also have a sizeable Scots minority. Scotland will be partitioned.
In pursuit of their aims, the ‘English/Highlanders’ have threatened violence, signed a ‘Highlands Covenant’ and recruited over 100,000 men to act as a militia.
Some questions to consider:
• Is the position taken by ‘English/Highlander’ unionists democratic?
• Is the creation of a new state i.e. ‘Northern Scotland’ democratic?
• Will the native Scots, now partitioned from their fellow-scots, identify as Highlanders? Northern Scottish? British?
• Will the native Scots accept the new state? If not, what can they do?
• Is this new state likely to exhibit social cohesion, political stability and economic viability?
• Is this new state likely to be a success or failure?

Yes.
Yes.
They'll do as they're told.
As above.
Be alright.
English/Highlanders? Not a chance, unless you want a rerun of Bannockburn.

Nobotty

It must do the DUP's head in that Boris Johnson is the united kingdoms first baptised Catholic prime minister ever
His new baby son was baptised in Westminster Catholic cathedral this month
The whole thing has gone full circle
King Billy must be turning in his grave

Airyfairy12

Northern Ireland is such a strange place, theres a hateful vibe there, anywhere outside Belfast is so underfunded the streets, public buildings, shops are incredibly depressing, the rivers that run through some of the towns are caked in green scum and full of rubbish. Theres no life in any of the towns just pure misery. Looks as though all the finding goes to Belfast and very little goes into areas outside that.. The republic is very much going the same way with most investment going into Dublin while some towns have still never fully recovered from the recession.

Then there's the people, I came across a journalist called Ruth Dudley Edwars on twitter and ended up in a twitter rabbit hole of UKIP, DUP and Unionist profiles and comments. They where the strangest most ignorant, hateful people, extreme in their views and politics, racist and weirdly proud of their British nationality. They were all engaging in twitter fights with republicans and sharing racist and anti Irish articles and media about how Ireland should rejoin the UK.

As long as people like this live in the North, it will never progress, it is stagnant, any attempt to move the North on or bring in any change will spark aggression from either the unionists or republicans.

Its a failed society.

Junkyard Tom

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

UKIP, DUP and Unionist profiles and comments. They where the strangest most ignorant, hateful people, extreme in their views and politics, racist and weirdly proud of their British nationality. They were all engaging in twitter fights with republicans and sharing racist and anti Irish articles and media about how Ireland should rejoin the UK.

Pick a side, because that's how this plays in the south.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SO what is the point of sending a nationalist to Westminster mark....you have the evidence now...do tell us.

What is the point of sending anyone to the Dail or Stormont, or Brussels or a Local Authority?
To represent their consitituency.

Collum Eastwood got elected as an MP by the people of Foyle, in fact he demolished the SF candidate in a huge swing from SF. Are you saying the majority of Nationalists in Foyle made the wrong decision?

..if the English centric Westminster parliament want to do something NI won't matter or figure in their concerns. How much evidence of that do you need at this stage?

Then why did SF sign the GFA which cemented Westminister power in the North and why do SF claim expenses from Westminister?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes mark. Which is why there is still a UI campaign, growing in strength everyday of the week.

There has always been a UI campaign Francie, but not always one that killed and murdered people without the consent of the majority.
Why did the PIRA murder and kill all those innocent people then if only for Westminister to still rule?
Seems like a total surrender and capitulation to me.

Seems most independent observers agree that the PIRA/SF lost the war.

markodaly

jm08 wrote: »

You claimed that Fine Gael were going to sack him anyway as Garda Commissioner before Dev did the job. It turns out Dev sacked him and Fine Gael made him their Leader.

I never said that.

He was a nasty sectarian bigot.

So why do you have a problem with him so, when many in SF exhibit and display the same behaviour?
Are you telling me there are no bigots in SF?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

What is the point of sending anyone to the Dail or Stormont, or Brussels or a Local Authority?
To represent their consitituency.

Collum Eastwood got elected as an MP by the people of Foyle, in fact he demolished the SF candidate in a huge swing from SF. Are you saying the majority of Nationalists in Foyle made the wrong decision?

That is exactly what I asked Mark and you just turned the question back on me.

What is the point?

Then why did SF sign the GFA which cemented Westminister power in the North and why do SF claim expenses from Westminister?

Westminster still has power but there are 'terms' to them retaining that power...where have you been since 2016 Mark?

Why wouldn't they claim expenses they are still doing representative work of an MP

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

There has always been a UI campaign Francie, but not always one that killed and murdered people without the consent of the majority.
Why did the PIRA murder and kill all those innocent people then if only for Westminister to still rule?
Seems like a total surrender and capitulation to me.

Seems most independent observers agree that the PIRA/SF lost the war.

Post up the referendum data from 1798, 1916 etc will you where the rebels got the consent of the marjority?

And link to those independent observers too. 'Most' is a big claim. ~~Good to see you finally accept it was a 'war' too.

breezy1985

markodaly wrote: »

And where he was pushed out of the role 13 months later by FG.
People over-egg the pudding with O'Duffy and some buzzwords aside, was not the Irish Adolf Hitler some cast him as.

He was though to the point where he was actually contacting Hitler and practically saying hey I'm the Irish Hitler.
And he did fight for the Fascists in Spain although very badly so maybe he was a secret republican agent

breezy1985

markodaly wrote: »

Even after the PIRA murder campaign that killed over 2000 people, the British still do what they want with NI?

My oh my! What a waste of time all that was.

I'm no IRA fan but thats BS. NI was an apartheid state with catholics bullied out of jobs snubbed by housing boards and had voting rules rigged to favour the more well off and gerrymandered constituencies

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

I never said that.

Well, some one did. You said this:

Read up an anything Diarmuid Ferriter has to say about this period. O'Duffy had little support if any and with anything related to Irish history, it has to be seen from the lens of the Civil War, hence why the group came to be.

Quote:

In February 1932, the Fianna Fáil party was elected to lead the Irish Free State government. On 18 March 1932, the new government suspended the Public Safety Act, lifting the ban on a number of organisations including the Irish Republican Army. Some IRA political prisoners were also released around the same time. The IRA and many released prisoners began a "campaign of unrelenting hostility" against those associated with the former Cumann na nGaedheal government. There were many cases of intimidation, attacks on persons, and the breaking-up of Cumann na nGaedheal political meetings in the coming months. In view of the increased activities of the IRA, National Army Commandant Ned Cronin founded the Army Comrades Association in early 1932. As its name suggested, it was designed for Irish Army veterans, a society for former members of the Free State army. The Blueshirts felt that freedom of speech was being repressed, and began to provide security at Cumann na nGaedheal events. This led to several serious clashes between the IRA and the ACA. In August 1932, Dr. Thomas F. O'Higgins, a Cumann na nGaedheal TD, became the leader of the ACA. By September 1932 it had over 30,000 members.

Someone has written O'Duffy out of Fine Gael's history.

So why do you have a problem with him so, when many in SF exhibit and display the same behaviour?
Are you telling me there are no bigots in SF?

I never mentioned Sinn Fein. What has SF got to do with O'Duffy?

cj maxx

I couldn’t find where to post this .
I’ve noticed both UTV and BBC NI are calling Derry city just that . Derry . No LondonDerry / Derry depending on who’s reading the news.
Has Londonderry been done away with ?

Fionn1952

cj maxx wrote: »

I couldn’t find where to post this .
I’ve noticed both UTV and BBC NI are calling Derry city just that . Derry . No LondonDerry / Derry depending on who’s reading the news.
Has Londonderry been done away with ?

Try reading The Newsletter, you'll find nary a mention of Derry.

The BBC have quite firm guidelines on when they're allowed to say Derry and when they have to talk in / terms.

BonnieSituation

The BBC have a rule that they refer to the city as Londonderry in the first reference and then call it Derry thereafter.

jm08

It seems that Charlie Flanagan has protested to RTE about showing ''Unquiet Graves.'' Fine Gael must have some very large skeletons in the cupboard over the Dublin-Monaghan bombings! Its intriguing that its Flanagan who is doing the protesting on this as well after the PR disaster of the commemorations of the RIC.


https://www.newstalk.com/news/flanagan-letter-unquiet-graves-1084102


https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unquiet-graves-td-flanagan-writes-to-rte-about-dubious-documentary-on-glenanne-gang-39579029.html

Yurt2

It's obvious FG are raging this was broadcast. Charlie's concerns delivered with a fake earnest furrowed brow are nothing but scuttlebutt.

There's long been a suspicion about FG that the troubles are nothing but a poltical punchline for them. Useful for them as paper airplanes to throw across the benches in Dáil Éireann, but Dublin and Monaghan bombings victims' families as well as other victims of collusion should note now where they stand in the hierarchy of victimhood in the scrap-book of official Ireland.

cj maxx

jm08 wrote: »

It seems that Charlie Flanagan has protested to RTE about showing ''Unquiet Graves.'' Fine Gael must have some very large skeletons in the cupboard over the Dublin-Monaghan bombings! Its intriguing that its Flanagan who is doing the protesting on this as well after the PR disaster of the commemorations of the RIC.


https://www.newstalk.com/news/flanagan-letter-unquiet-graves-1084102


https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unquiet-graves-td-flanagan-writes-to-rte-about-dubious-documentary-on-glenanne-gang-39579029.html

Fcucking missed it when it aired .

breezy1985

cj maxx wrote: »

Fcucking missed it when it aired .

Still on the RTE player I think

grayzer75

jm08 wrote: »

It seems that Charlie Flanagan has protested to RTE about showing ''Unquiet Graves.'' Fine Gael must have some very large skeletons in the cupboard over the Dublin-Monaghan bombings! Its intriguing that its Flanagan who is doing the protesting on this as well after the PR disaster of the commemorations of the RIC.


https://www.newstalk.com/news/flanagan-letter-unquiet-graves-1084102


https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unquiet-graves-td-flanagan-writes-to-rte-about-dubious-documentary-on-glenanne-gang-39579029.html

Charlie won't like the fact that people with be questioning the appointment of his buddy Drew, the one who tried to block the investigations into the murders of Irish citizens by the British state. Charlie and his fellow FG unionists were warned by the families not to put their buddy Drew in the top job but didn't listen.

Charlie doesn't give two ****s about the nationalist community in the north. Charlie is a ****. Don't be like Charlie.

Edgware

jm08 wrote: »

Well, some one did. You said this:


Quote:


Someone has written O'Duffy out of Fine Gael's history.







I never mentioned Sinn Fein. What has SF got to do with O'Duffy?[history.
O Duffy was a member of Sinn Fein at one time

FrancieBrady

The failed state STILL denying rights.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2020/06/30/the-curious-case-of-the-department-of-health/