Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

John Doe1

The sheer ignorance and generalisation on display in this thread is breathtaking. People who live in the north east of this island are not a seperate species.

As someone originally from an east Donegal Plantation town with a mixed religious background and a northern accent, I would be pretty much indistinguishable to these 'nordies' to most people in this thread. If you are denigrating people from the north east, you are denigrating your fellow countrymen. It is also an area which underwent a civil war so maybe show a bit of empathy...

I lived in Cork for 4 years and found quite a few people from there arrogant and boorish but im not going to say everyone in Munster is like this.

Five Eighth

John Doe1 wrote: »

The sheer ignorance and generalisation on display in this thread is breathtaking. People who live in the north east of this island are not a seperate species.

As someone originally from an east Donegal Plantation town with a mixed religious background and a northern accent, I would be pretty much indistinguishable to these 'nordies' to most people in this thread. If you are denigrating people from the north east, you are denigrating your fellow countrymen. It is also an area which underwent a civil war so maybe show a bit of empathy...

I lived in Cork for 4 years and found quite a few people from there arrogant and boorish but im not going to say everyone in Munster is like this.

I absolutely and totally believe that it those people, both unionist and nationalist, who have lived in Northern Ireland since the foundation of that state who really understand the underlying reality of that divided society. What I would welcome from someone like your goodself is to explain how you can refer to Northern Ireland unionists as our 'fellow countrymen'. Surely, they do not perceive themselves as our 'fellow countrymen' and many view themselves as 'Ulster-Scots', 'Northern Irish' and 'British'.

Edgware

At least we can cheer them on against Slovakia

Hamsterchops

Yes indeed we can, there might be many failures in Norther Ireland, but least their football team has come good.

Georgie Best is a star, walks like a lady and he wears a bra (so we sang in the schoolyard) many moons ago when he was a NI/ManU football God

Five Eighth

Edgware wrote: »

At least we can cheer them on against Slovakia

Don't know about that... remember that infamous November night in 1993 when the hatred and spite for everything Irish spilt over from the Windsor terraces and stands onto the pitch for all to see on the tele. Never felt the same again towards the Northern Ireland football team.

larva

Edgware wrote: »

At least we can cheer them on against Slovakia

Who, the two Irelands?

Granadino

Five Eighth wrote: »

Don't know about that... remember that infamous November night in 1993 when the hatred and spite for everything Irish spilt over from the Windsor terraces and stands onto the pitch for all to see on the tele. Never felt the same again towards the Northern Ireland football team.

Nearly 30 yrs ago. You'd hope things have moved on a bit since then...

BonnieSituation

Granadino wrote: »

Nearly 30 yrs ago. You'd hope things have moved on a bit since then...

And?

1690 is a bit longer ago... think we've heard enough about that as well. :rolleyes:

Five Eighth

Granadino wrote: »

Nearly 30 yrs ago. You'd hope things have moved on a bit since then...

Wouldn't hold my breadth...leopard and spots...dog and tricks...would like to hear from some native Irish who live in Northern Ireland to let us Irish who had the good fortune to live in the 26 counties know if there has, in fact, been a sea-change. As i posted previously, it is the Irish who live in the six counties who really know the true reality of life in that State.

Hamsterchops

John Doe1 wrote: »

People who live in the north east of this island are not a seperate species.

As someone originally from an east Donegal Plantation town with a mixed religious background and a northern accent, I would be pretty much indistinguishable to these 'nordies' to most people in this thread. If you are denigrating people from the north east, you are denigrating your fellow countrymen. It is also an area which underwent a civil war so maybe show a bit of empathy....

My understanding.

Obviously not a seperate species, but definitely a different tribe (as your plantation comment suggests). With a strong Scots influence thanks to such close proximity to Scotland & the North West of England. Many people in the north of this island really are strongly bonded with their countymen in the northern part of Britain. For most Northerners "fellow countrymen" can be used to describe people in Northern Britain (their forbears), or the people on the rest of this island, who are not strongly influenced by the North West of Britain.

Surnames up North can be a strong pointer as to where ones origins are, and many come from Britain, hence the Unionist desire to stay connected to the Mother Ship ....

PS; I'm not from the North myself, so I'm open to correction on all of my theories

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

Don't know about that... remember that infamous November night in 1993 when the hatred and spite for everything Irish spilt over from the Windsor terraces and stands onto the pitch for all to see on the tele. Never felt the same again towards the Northern Ireland football team.

Five eight Class revisionist.
This fantasy of the big bad nordies being exclusively to blame for the relatively minor issues that night - that bubble has been burst. On less of course you want to open our eyes with your version of events. It would be really interesting to know what you think instigated the problems? Or did this 90 mins sit in a complete vacuum of everything outside of it.

downcow

larva wrote: »

Who, the two Irelands?

I wish I was better at searching these threads. I got told a while ago about how owc would never qualify again fo a major tournament and would have to watch the Roi gracing the world stage.
Hahahahahahahahaha

I wish you guys hadn’t collapsed the other night as I would love stevie D to have kicked you asses in Windsor 😂

Slovakia will be a bigger challenge but if we get past them then you will have to watch as we make Aviva our home ground fo two euro final games. If carlsberg done football

Beltby

downcow wrote: »

I wish I was better at searching these threads. I got told a while ago about how owc would never qualify again fo a major tournament and would have to watch the Roi gracing the world stage.
Hahahahahahahahaha

I wish you guys hadn’t collapsed the other night as I would love stevie D to have kicked you asses in Windsor ��

Slovakia will be a bigger challenge but if we get past them then you will have to watch as we make Aviva our home ground fo two euro final games. If carlsberg done football

You fail to realise that the vast majority in the republic won't have any issues with N.I. playing in the Aviva. There won't be any bitterness or division.

You on the other hand have just shown your cards for all to see.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Five eight Class revisionist.
This fantasy of the big bad nordies being exclusively to blame for the relatively minor issues that night - that bubble has been burst. On less of course you want to open our eyes with your version of events. It would be really interesting to know what you think instigated the problems? Or did this 90 mins sit in a complete vacuum of everything outside of it.

Pretty well summed up here. The bigots found a leader in the normally non bigoted Bingham. The team and supporters let themselves down that night and have been trying to overcome the image since. The fact that they may have provoked a reaction (the intention of course) is immaterial I'm afraid downcow. This is an outside view of what happened too.

The intensity of the Ireland match was exacerbated by the political climate of the time. The Troubles were at their height, and a month earlier 23 people had died in a series of shootings and bombings. There was much talk of moving the game away from Belfast to Old Trafford, Wembley or even Italy. Eventually the game went ahead as planned, but the Republic, to Jack Charlton’s not inconsiderable chagrin, had to fly rather than drive for security reasons.

The mood wasn’t improved the day before the match when Billy Bingham – who was to retire after 17 years as Northern Ireland manager – laid into the Republic’s “mercenaries”. “They couldn’t find a way of making it with England or Scotland,” he said of players like Andy Townsend, Ray Houghton and John Aldridge. “I take a totally cynical view of the whole business. I am not prepared to skirt the issue, the same as I am happy to state it is our intention to stuff the Republic.” Ireland were given a taste of what was to come when they arrived for their last training session to be greeted by a group of 10- and 11-year-olds with erect middle fingers. When they arrived for the game, they found a ring of barbed wire and armed police.

If there was a ring of steel outside the ground, then there was a ring of ire inside it. This was a maelstrom of hate, the sort of night on which even the gangsters look over their shoulder. Officially at least, the Republic had no supporters in the ground. “I have never seen a more hostile atmosphere,” said Jack Charlton, “not even in Turkey.” Terry Phelan and Paul McGrath received monkey chants; Alan Kernaghan, who played for Northern Ireland at schoolboy level, was noisily called a “****ing Lundy”. And then there were the dogs, hundreds of them, or so it seemed, barking like they knew the apocalypse was coming. “The safest place to be,” said McLoughlin, “was on the pitch.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/feb/15/forgotten-story-17-november-1993

FrancieBrady

Beltby wrote: »

You fail to realise that the vast majority in the republic won't have any issues with N.I. playing in the Aviva. There won't be any bitterness or division.

You on the other hand have just shown your cards for all to see.

The familiar old triumphalism coming quickly to the fore with downcow. He keeps revealing this aspect of himself. Can't help it.

downcow

Beltby wrote: »

You fail to realise that the vast majority in the republic won't have any issues with N.I. playing in the Aviva. There won't be any bitterness or division.

You on the other hand have just shown your cards for all to see.

Who are you kidding. Large numbers on the main Roi football forum COYBIG hate us with a passion.
I do completely realise that lots of ordinary Roi residents will be supporting us and I hope come along to boost our numbers, but I know Roi fans who are facing November with dread in case this scenario comes off.

As for me showing my colours. I didn’t think they were ever hidden.
While your team continues to sectarianise international football on this island by hunting down every catholic that comes through our system, then I will want to see you lose every game you play. Simple.
.....and even that matter was resolved I would still treat you as are neighbouring rivals in the same way as Wales and would still want to see you beat.
Is that so unusual. Do you think the Scots don’t enjoy watching England Fáil?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Who are you kidding. Large numbers on the main Roi football forum COYBIG hate us with a passion.
I do completely realise that lots of ordinary Roi residents will be supporting us and I hope come along to boost our numbers, but I know Roi fans who are facing November with dread in case this scenario comes off.

As for me showing my colours. I didn’t think they were ever hidden.
While your team continues to sectarianise international football on this island by hunting down every catholic that comes through our system, then I will want to see you lose every game you play. Simple.
.....and even that matter was resolved I would still treat you as are neighbouring rivals in the same way as Wales and would still want to see you beat.
Is that so unusual. Do you think the Scots don’t enjoy watching England Fáil?

Typical you downcow. The COYBIG stuff is 'hate' while you just indulge in 'not unusual rivalry'.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Pretty well summed up here. The bigots found a leader in the normally non bigoted Bingham. The team and supporters let themselves down that night and have been trying to overcome the image since. The fact that they may have provoked a reaction (the intention of course) is immaterial I'm afraid downcow. This is an outside view of what happened too.


https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/feb/15/forgotten-story-17-november-1993

Francie. I can’t be bothered in entering a series of posts when you will paint your guys as angels.
Just a few facts.

It came a few weeks after the ira murdered men women and children in a sectarian attack on the fish shop on the Shankill road - just two miles from the stadium.

Over the previous few years there had been a number of IRA bomb attacks on match night at our ground where it was only good fortune that no fans were killed.

The Roi team called weeks before for the game to be moved away from Northern Ireland. This was infuriating as we had managed to play practically every game at Windsor throughout the ira campaign and here were our neighbouring team going to do their dirty work for them (this is the biggest reason for the atmosphere)

Contrary to your little piece, there absolutely were Roi fans in the ground. They had a section to themselves and they were also dotted around amongst our fans.

I am personally aware of an Roi fan being escorted out of the ground for standing up and holding a Celtic poster above his head to taunt the home support. He was in the corporate section and was disciplined by his employer - bank of ireland for his behaviour.

But sure Francie says it was all our fault.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Typical you downcow. The COYBIG stuff is 'hate' while you just indulge in 'not unusual rivalry'.

Misquoting again Francie. I did not say COYBIG was hate.
Like this forum, there are some great open minded people on there who absolutely do not hate our team - but there are also a lot of Francies on there as well

I must have a wee look. I haven’t seen it in years. I’ll report back haha

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Typical you downcow. The COYBIG stuff is 'hate' while you just indulge in 'not unusual rivalry'.

The first quote I came across. More funny than hate Francie
“ The fact the Nordies won tonight (and should beat that Slovakia team in Belfast to qualify) has made this 100 times worse. They play in Dublin if they win I believe”

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. I can’t be bothered in entering a series of posts when you will paint your guys as angels.
Just a few facts.

It came a few weeks after the ira murdered men women and children in a sectarian attack on the fish shop on the Shankill road - just two miles from the stadium.

Over the previous few years there had been a number of IRA bomb attacks on match night at our ground where it was only good fortune that no fans were killed.

The Roi team called weeks before for the game to be moved away from Northern Ireland. This was infuriating as we had managed to play practically every game at Windsor throughout the ira campaign and here were our neighbouring team going to do their dirty work for them (this is the biggest reason for the atmosphere)

Contrary to your little piece, there absolutely were Roi fans in the ground. They had a section to themselves and they were also dotted around amongst our fans.

I am personally aware of an Roi fan being escorted out of the ground for standing up and holding a Celtic poster above his head to taunt the home support. He was in the corporate section and was disciplined by his employer - bank of ireland for his behaviour.

But sure Francie says it was all our fault.

A series of excuses that does not excuse the behaviour on that night. Just as bigotry anywhere should not be excused.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Misquoting again Francie. I did not say COYBIG was hate.
Like this forum, there are some great open minded people on there who absolutely do not hate our team - but there are also a lot of Francies on there as well

I must have a wee look. I haven’t seen it in years. I’ll report back haha

Yes you did...here is where you said it.

downcow wrote:

Large numbers on the main Roi football forum COYBIG hate us with a passion.

but as always you cannot accept that a large part of what happened on that night that shamed NI football in 1993 was 'hate' from supporters and some on the team and management.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A series of excuses that does not excuse the behaviour on that night. Just as bigotry anywhere should not be excused.

Excuses for what? For trying to win a game that the Roi thought we should have lay down in.
Tell exactly what this terrible behaviour was?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Excuses for what? For trying to win a game that the Roi thought we should have lay down in.
Tell exactly what this terrible behaviour was?

Read the article posted, it might jog your very selective memory.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Read the article posted, it might jog your very selective memory.

Francie I read your artical. Full of nonsense. Are you saying it is factual? Are you saying there were no Roi supporters in the ground? Just nonsense

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

My point all along is that it is not I failure. I love it.
You guys partitioned Ireland and ni has turned into a wonderful place to live.
You guys then insisted on partitioning the football team And the team has turned into a wonderful team to support

What’s not to like about that

My other point that is going straight over your head is that a significant section of the nationalist community north and south don’t want either the country or its football team to succeed. Therefore there is no point in trying to convince them that either is not a failure.
They just get so upset about the ongoing success of both and how both are loved by their people

You still have to tell us what is 'successful' about NI? Just saying it isn't enough.

Beltby

downcow wrote: »

Beltby
It wasn’t me raised the football on the thread. But it’s very interesting that you have a go at me. Ask yourself why??

Because you have latched on to side story's and anecdotes, ducked and dived all thread long, all in order to avoid answering the thread title.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie I read your artical. Full of nonsense. Are you saying it is factual? Are you saying there were no Roi supporters in the ground? Just nonsense

So nothing happened that night downcow? Oh dear, if only the world thought the same.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You still have to tell us what is 'successful' about NI? Just saying it isn't enough.

You were given endless independent evidence about how people love to visit and how people love to live here. Can’t do anymore for you unless you are specific about how success can be evidenced to you satisfaction.
Ps the thread title didn’t mention success. The onus is on the ni haters to demonstrate how it’s a failure. You are a laugh

downcow

Beltby wrote: »

Because you have latched on to side story's and anecdotes, ducked and dived all thread long, all in order to avoid answering the thread title.

The onus is on you to answer the thread title. Read it again and consider answering it. We need evidence. And remember stay on topic