Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So nothing happened that night downcow? Oh dear, if only the world thought the same.

Plenty happened that night. But nothing out of the ordinary.
Maybe the only extra ordinary thing that happened was that the Roi team did not play songs on the way to the game about killing policemen - well I am assuming they didn’t switch their tape on that night as it would have been insensitive to the very same police officers who were on the bus with them.
......or maybe you will claim that your beloved team did not normally play songs about killing our police officers as they travelled to games.???

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Plenty happened that night. ?

I couldn't be bothered with this level of denial.
You tried this one before and got humiliated. Go back and read it..no point going over it again.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I couldn't be bothered with this level of denial.
You tried this one before and got humiliated. Go back and read it..no point going over it again.

No point in me reading it again unless you are going to tell me it’s factual.
The truth is that you know it’s not factual and you know I can provide evidence to prove it’s not factual.
So stop playing your games.
Fact is that the game was played in a time of terrible conflict and your team agitated in the lead up to it.
I have provided clear list of Roi nasty stuff. You are yet to tell me what ni team or fans done that was so terrible. Just posting links to stuff that can be disproved

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Plenty happened that night.

The world witnessed the rotten sectarian/racist nature of the NI supporters. What's your view on the 'Trick or Treat' taunting in reference to the victims of the Greysteel massacre?

Unionist hatred was always there, the Troubles provided an outlet for its wickedness.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The world witnessed the rotten sectarian/racist nature of the NI supporters. What's your view on the 'Trick or Treat' taunting in reference to the victims of the Greysteel massacre?

Unionist hatred was always there, the Troubles provided an outlet for its wickedness.

Indeed, the sectarianism at the heart of the IFA was famous before that night and it was internationally famous after it.

Utterly unbelievable that downcow is trying to wash his hands and the hands of the IFA of it.

I fully accept they are trying to do something about it but lying about the past shouldn't be a part of that.

Junkyard Tom

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Utterly unbelievable that downcow is trying to wash his hands and the hands of the IFA of it.

DC provides a very good example to neutral readers of the thread of a Unionist who thinks he's a 'moderate' but can't help suppress his unionist instincts to gloat when 'his crowd' get one over on 'our crowd'.

If DC is an example of a 'moderate Unionist' then I hope it provides a stark example of what our people had to put up with in the north while self-described 'staunch unionists' ruled the place.

That's all over now, of course, and they'll have to deal with us one way or another as sons and daughters of Republicans are filling up positions of influence and power in the north where before they were absent.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The world witnessed the rotten sectarian/racist nature of the NI supporters. What's your view on the 'Trick or Treat' taunting in reference to the victims of the Greysteel massacre?

Unionist hatred was always there, the Troubles provided an outlet for its wickedness.

What are you on. The greysteel massacre had exactly the same to do with ni football team as the Shankill mascre has to do with Roi team = zero

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Indeed, the sectarianism at the heart of the IFA was famous before that night and it was internationally famous after it.

Utterly unbelievable that downcow is trying to wash his hands and the hands of the IFA of it.

I fully accept they are trying to do something about it but lying about the past shouldn't be a part of that.

Haha. You remind me of the posters on here who said Windsor park was name after the royals.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Haha. You remind me of the posters on here who said Windsor park was name after the royals.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story

No matter how much you stamp your feet you cannot change what many saw with their own eyes. Plenty of accounts of the night have been posted and are out there downcow.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No matter how much you stamp your feet you cannot change what many saw with their own eyes. Plenty of accounts of the night have been posted and are out there downcow.

Haha. You won’t tell us what people saw. Catch yourself on Francie. Different times. Again you are back trying to rewrite last century. The world is moving on.
Class goal from our falls road NI hero on Thursday night.
Endless numbers of ni fans would have never been on the falls road except they love to go to Niall Maginn’s place for a wee bite
He is one of us. And you don’t like it.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Haha. You won’t tell us what people saw. Catch yourself on Francie. Different times. Again you are back trying to rewrite last century. The world is moving on.
Class goal from our falls road NI hero on Thursday night.
Endless numbers of ni fans would have never been on the falls road except they love to go to Niall Maginn’s place for a wee bite
He is one of us. And you don’t like it.

I can post numerous first hand accounts of what took place downcow and did the last time you tried to rewrite history and got humiliated. I think you left boards.ie for a while after it.

Here is one of those...many more of them saying the same thing.

What was going on around the players was a shocking cacophony of sectarian abuse, vitriol which stunned onlookers. Sometimes it was racist, directed at Terry Phelan and Paul McGrath.

It was not a tribute, it was an act of defiance. It was better than some of the bile which had flowed, the “trick or treat” stuff that scarred the night sky.

I note you now don't want to talk about it anymore...figures.

Yes it was a great goal for your team. Anyone with eyes could see that, just as they saw what happened that night in '93.
On the last thread you spent ages extolling the efforts made to wipe the sectarianism out of NI football (and fair play, long overdue) now you seem to want us all to pretend it never existed.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can post numerous first hand accounts of what took place downcow and did the last time you tried to rewrite history and got humiliated. I think you left boards.ie for a while after it.

Here is one of those...many more of them saying the same thing.



I note you now don't want to talk about it anymore...figures.

Yes it was a great goal for your team. Anyone with eyes could see that, just as they saw what happened that night in '93.
On the last thread you spent ages extolling the efforts made to wipe the sectarianism out of NI football (and fair play, long overdue) now you seem to want us all to pretend it never existed.

Oh it existed alright. I have never denied it. I was there in the 80s and sung ‘would you go a chicken supper bobby sands’. The context was that you guys were murdering us. It’s makes the transformation all the more remarkable.
So Francie. Did your wee team play songs on the team coach about killing our policemen. You don’t seem to want to comment on that.
And we all know about your CEO singing similar songs recently.
Have the balls to admit the issues were/are on both sides

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Oh it existed alright. I have never denied it. I was there in the 80s and sung ‘would you go a chicken supper bobby sands’. The context was that you guys were murdering us. It’s makes the transformation all the more remarkable.
So Francie. Did your wee team play songs on the team coach about killing our policemen. You don’t seem to want to comment on that.
And we all know about your CEO singing similar songs recently.
Have the balls to admit the issues were/are on both sides

I have already said that there are idiots on both sides downcow.

That does not wipe what happened that night. Nobody has had to initiate campaigns or work to cure sectarian issues in southern football because you only do things like that when you have major issues. And that came to the fore in '93. Hence the plethora of eyewitness accounts of it.

Stop the rewrite.

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

Five eight Class revisionist.
This fantasy of the big bad nordies being exclusively to blame for the relatively minor issues that night - that bubble has been burst. On less of course you want to open our eyes with your version of events. It would be really interesting to know what you think instigated the problems? Or did this 90 mins sit in a complete vacuum of everything outside of it.

There were vile atrocities on both sides leading up to that grim night but what had that to do with the ROI football team?
Northern Ireland had played in the old Lansdowne Road in March 1993. I was at the match. The NI fans were chanting and waving Unions Jacks and six county Ulster flags. Not one person in my area of the ground made any derogatory comments towards the Northern Ireland players or fans.
Below are a few extracts from the RTE documentary:
One Night In Windsor Park – 25 Years On..
Northern Ireland boss Billy Bingham tossed an oily rag on the fire by labelling Charlton's team "a bunch of mercenaries... happy to be picked because they couldn't find a way of making it with England or Scotland. I take a totally cynical view of the whole business. I am not prepared to skirt the issue, the same as I am happy to state it is our intention to stuff the Republic".
Billy Bingham was trying to rouse the crowd by waving his arms and getting them to make the atmosphere even more hostile. It was probably the most volatile atmosphere we've ever experienced at a sports event in this island.
Northern Ireland fans were shouting at Alan Kernaghan "You could feel the venom in it. 'Pope-sucking whore', 'your mother's the Pope's whore'.
"The team boarded their coach. Verbal obscenities were being hurled in their direction by fuming supporters of Northern Ireland
We wanted to make sure everyone got away from the ground safe and well… It wasn't until we were on the plane that we started to relax a bit.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have already said that there are idiots on both sides downcow.

That does not wipe what happened that night. Nobody has had to initiate campaigns or work to cure sectarian issues in southern football because you only do things like that when you have major issues. And that came to the fore in '93. Hence the plethora of eyewitness accounts of it.

Stop the rewrite.

Actually you only do that when you have the self awareness to realise you have an issue. We had an issue.
Here’s some example Roi stuff. You decide
Playing songs in team coach about killing our police officers.
Checking religion of Northern players prior to only chasing the Catholics. The exception haha was paddy McNair who they thought was a catholic with a name like paddy haha
CEO singing Irish rebel songs.
Endless videos of Roi fans singing sectarian songs

Your problem is you haven’t got to square one yet. We are busy trying to deal with stuff and it’s not easy. Your blinkers make it easy for you

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Actually you only do that when you have the self awareness to realise you have an issue. We had an issue.
Here’s some example Roi stuff. You decide
Playing songs in team coach about killing our police officers.
Checking religion of Northern players prior to only chasing the Catholics. The exception haha was paddy McNair who they thought was a catholic with a name like paddy haha
CEO singing Irish rebel songs.
Endless videos of Roi fans singing sectarian songs

Your problem is you haven’t got to square one yet. We are busy trying to deal with stuff and it’s not easy. Your blinkers make it easy for you

You can exaggerate these things all you want. We have an 'image' and you have one...and I know which one I prefer and I have personal experience of why you got your image. I repeqt, we did not have to intercede to tidy up our image because it was not bad to begin with, you guys on the other hand are still trying. Need another first hand account of what happened that night?

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

There were vile atrocities on both sides leading up to that grim night but what had that to do with the ROI football team?
Northern Ireland had played in the old Lansdowne Road in March 1993. I was at the match. The NI fans were chanting and waving Unions Jacks and six county Ulster flags. Not one person in my area of the ground made any derogatory comments towards the Northern Ireland players or fans.
Below are a few extracts from the RTE documentary:
One Night In Windsor Park – 25 Years On..
Northern Ireland boss Billy Bingham tossed an oily rag on the fire by labelling Charlton's team "a bunch of mercenaries... happy to be picked because they couldn't find a way of making it with England or Scotland. I take a totally cynical view of the whole business. I am not prepared to skirt the issue, the same as I am happy to state it is our intention to stuff the Republic".
Billy Bingham was trying to rouse the crowd by waving his arms and getting them to make the atmosphere even more hostile. It was probably the most volatile atmosphere we've ever experienced at a sports event in this island.
Northern Ireland fans were shouting at Alan Kernaghan "You could feel the venom in it. 'Pope-sucking whore', 'your mother's the Pope's whore'.
"The team boarded their coach. Verbal obscenities were being hurled in their direction by fuming supporters of Northern Ireland
We wanted to make sure everyone got away from the ground safe and well… It wasn't until we were on the plane that we started to relax a bit.

Well here we are. I don’t even want to rad the second part of your post. The first bit got me so wound up. I was at both games.
Do you realise what you have just said. The ni fans had the ordasity to wave the flag of their country and you allowed them. It really is incredible.
Your fans that day chanted of ah up the ra at our fans. There were only a couple of hundred of us allowed and you gave us the most nasty sectarian **** I had ever encountered. And if I’m not mistaken the game was arranged as a peace initiative after our people were murdered by the Ira at enniskillen.
You guys really do need to waken up.
My teams fans (me included) we’re guilty of some disgraceful sectarian crap over the years. But you will never change until you recognise the sectarian crap you got up to

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

Well here we are. I don’t even want to rad the second part of your post. The first bit got me so wound up. I was at both games.
Do you realise what you have just said. The ni fans had the ordasity to wave the flag of their country and you allowed them. It really is incredible.
Your fans that day chanted of ah up the ra at our fans. There were only a couple of hundred of us allowed and you gave us the most nasty sectarian **** I had ever encountered. And if I’m not mistaken the game was arranged as a peace initiative after our people were murdered by the Ira at enniskillen.
You guys really do need to waken up.
My teams fans (me included) we’re guilty of some disgraceful sectarian crap over the years. But you will never change until you recognise the sectarian crap you got up to

I was just making the point that the NI fans were waving Union Jacks and six county Ulster flags. You're the one making it a big deal. Compare and contrast with no Tricolours at the corresponding Windsor Park fixture. I wonder how many Northern Ireland nationalists actually support the NI football team? You would expect the vast majority would do so in a successful political, social and economic State. Also, please support your allegation that the Irish squad sing songs about killing RUC/PSNI officers? Finally, nobody that i know gives a fiddlers about the religious beliefs or otherwise of any member of the Irish football squad (or rugby squad for that matter). To assert that 'we' only want Catholic players from NI to play with ROI is ridiculous.

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

I was just making the point that the NI fans were waving Union Jacks and six county Ulster flags. You're the one making it a big deal. Compare and contrast with no Tricolours at the corresponding Windsor Park fixture. I wonder how many Northern Ireland nationalists actually support the NI football team? You would expect the vast majority would do so in a successful political, social and economic State. Also, please support your allegation that the Irish squad sing songs about killing RUC/PSNI officers? Finally, nobody that i know gives a fiddlers about the religious beliefs or otherwise of any member of the Irish football squad (or rugby squad for that matter). To assert that 'we' only want Catholic players from NI to play with ROI is ridiculous.

Let’s break your rant down.
Why would you think it unusual that away fans would have their flags with them.
Lots of Northern nationalists support owc but you or me can’t prove how many/few.
I didn’t say the team sang songs about killing our policemen. I said they played songs in their team coach on the way to games about killing our policemen. Shocking isn’t it. But Francie knows the evidence is out there. That’s why he is not confirming or denying it. Yes shocking. But true.
Could you imagine if our team played tunes lauding the killing of people at Bloody Sunday. It doesn’t bear thinking. How Roi fans can know this and not condemn it baffles me as much as how so many can vote Sinn Fein as they celebrate the killing of our people.

Francie will you have the balls to provide the evidence for five eight or will I have to

As for the catholic players. It has been evidenced over and over again up here that Roi chase only Catholic ni players. The exception being paddy McNair who they thought was a catholic. Thankfully guys like Thursday night falls road hero Niall Maginn tells them where to go.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Let’s break your rant down.
Why would you think it unusual that away fans would have their flags with them.
Lots of Northern nationalists support owc but you or me can’t prove how many/few.
I didn’t say the team sang songs about killing our policemen. I said they played songs in their team coach on the way to games about killing our policemen. Shocking isn’t it. But Francie knows the evidence is out there. That’s why he is not confirming or denying it. Yes shocking. But true.

I have said you have exaggerated downcow. Like you did about catholic players coming south, the reality is the protestant ones have not signalled they are available because they'd probably get death threats and abuse from the people who have needed intitatives and campaigns to wipe out of your soccer fraternity.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Let’s break your rant down.
Why would you think it unusual that away fans would have their flags with them.
Lots of Northern nationalists support owc but you or me can’t prove how many/few.
I didn’t say the team sang songs about killing our policemen. I said they played songs in their team coach on the way to games about killing our policemen. Shocking isn’t it. But Francie knows the evidence is out there. That’s why he is not confirming or denying it. Yes shocking. But true.
Could you imagine if our team played tunes lauding the killing of people at Bloody Sunday. It doesn’t bear thinking. How Roi fans can know this and not condemn it baffles me as much as how so many can vote Sinn Fein as they celebrate the killing of our people.

Francie will you have the balls to provide the evidence for five eight or will I have to

You are asking me to prove your claims now?

I have no doubt a song was played but I am absolutely certain sectarianism is not a problem here downcow. Not to the extent it is in the IFA and it's fanbase.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

There were only a couple of hundred of us allowed and you gave us the most nasty sectarian **** I had ever encountered.

Shame you couldn't learn from getting a small taste of what your neighbours had to put with from you lot for decades, if not centuries.

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

Let’s break your rant down.
Why would you think it unusual that away fans would have their flags with them.
Lots of Northern nationalists support owc but you or me can’t prove how many/few.
I didn’t say the team sang songs about killing our policemen. I said they played songs in their team coach on the way to games about killing our policemen. Shocking isn’t it. But Francie knows the evidence is out there. That’s why he is not confirming or denying it. Yes shocking. But true.
Could you imagine if our team played tunes lauding the killing of people at Bloody Sunday. It doesn’t bear thinking. How Roi fans can know this and not condemn it baffles me as much as how so many can vote Sinn Fein as they celebrate the killing of our people.

Francie will you have the balls to provide the evidence for five eight or will I have to

As for the catholic players. It has been evidenced over and over again up here that Roi chase only Catholic ni players. The exception being paddy McNair who they thought was a catholic. Thankfully guys like Thursday night falls road hero Niall Maginn tells them where to go.

1. I post, it's a 'rant'. You post, it's....??? What's the difference?
2. I was comparing the flying of Union Jacks and six county Ulster flags at Lansdowne Road with no Tricolours at Windsor Park. Irish fans in Copenhagen supporting the Irish football team would fly Tricolours, why not in Belfast?
3. Lot's of northern nationalists support the NI football team...really? Suppose we just have to leave that up in the air.
4.The Irish squad play but don't sing songs about killing RUC/PSNI officers...semantics. Please provide the proof to that scurrilous allegation.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are asking me to prove your claims now?

I have no doubt a song was played but I am absolutely certain sectarianism is not a problem here downcow. Not to the extent it is in the IFA and it's fanbase.

So Francie now has ‘no doubt’ ‘A’ song was played.
Can you not see what is going on.
Francie and most Roi fans know that it was common practice to play songs about the killing of our people on the way to matches to get your team ‘stirred up’
Do you need any more evidence. Or is Francie half admission enough for you.
Shocking isn’t it. But sure let’s deflect it by talking about the atmosphere at a match in 1993.
Was it last year or the year before that your CEO was fined singing rebel songs at a fai event??

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So Francie now has ‘no doubt’ ‘A’ song was played.
Can you not see what is going on.
Francie and most Roi fans know that it was common practice to play songs about the killing of our people on the way to matches to get your team ‘stirred up’
Do you need any more evidence. Or is Francie half admission enough for you.
Shocking isn’t it. But sure let’s deflect it by talking about the atmosphere at a match in 1993.
Was it last year or the year before that your CEO was fined singing rebel songs at a fai event??

You'll have to back up the 'common practice' bit downcow.

The CEO was in the pub I believe and is roundly detested by most genuine fans here...as if you ddn't know that.

So...back up the 'common practice bit, when you are ready, And your second cousin once removed is not a 'source'.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

I said they played songs in their team coach on the way to games about killing our policemen. Could you imagine if our team played tunes lauding the killing of people at Bloody Sunday. It doesn’t bear thinking.

DC if the bands you describe as your 'culture' had to drop all references to killing, sectarianism, keeping the croppies down, and so on, then you wouldn't have much of a culture left.

I recommend you remove the shrubbery in your eye before complaining about the splinter in others'.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You'll have to back up the 'common practice' bit downcow.

The CEO was in the pub I believe and is roundly detested by most genuine fans here...as if you ddn't know that.

So...back up the 'common practice bit, when you are ready, And your second cousin once removed is not a 'source'.

Just for you Francie. But you know it anyhow. That was a very quick google. There is much more solid evidence out there. Can you imagine if billy Bingham was cheerleading the norn iron players singing Uvf songs And I apologise the Roi players were not just listening to them. They were singing them. Shocking. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.balls.ie/amp/football/jack-charlton-rebel-songs-350401-350401

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Just for you Francie. But you know it anyhow. That was a very quick google. There is much more solid evidence out there. Can you imagine if billy Bingham was cheerleading the norn iron players singing Uvf songs And I apologise the Roi players were not just listening to them. They were singing them. Shocking. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.balls.ie/amp/football/jack-charlton-rebel-songs-350401-350401

Where does it say anywhere there that it was common practice to sing them on the way to NI games?

They did it for ALL games...you are being exceptionalist again. Read the fricking article and what the man playing the song said.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where does it say anywhere there that it was common practice to sing them on the way to NI games?

They did it for ALL games...you are being exceptionalist again. Read the fricking article and what the man playing the song said.

I didn’t read the article in detail but I know it was common practice. But do I hint that you at least accepted it happened?
Some of your mates must have Jack Charlton autobiography and I think he confirms it.
But you guys really need to take a big long look at yourselves. You are focused on one game in 1993 and can’t even name anything that happened and now you are saying that because the Roi players didn’t celebrate the murder of our people before ‘every’ game then it’s ok.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I didn’t read the article in detail but I know it was common practice. But do I hint that you at least accepted it happened?
Some of your mates must have Jack Charlton autobiography and I think he confirms it.
But you guys really need to take a big long look at yourselves. You are focused on one game in 1993 and can’t even name anything that happened and now you are saying that because the Roi players didn’t celebrate the murder of our people before ‘every’ game then it’s ok.

As I said, the image is yours and it was so bad you had to do something formal about it. Fact.

Your little bit of triumphalist gloating earlier today shows you have a way to go.

And a little bit of education for you on your journey...singing a song in the relative privacy of a team bus is slightly different to filling a stadium with such a toxic atmosphere it is remembered vividly by those there 30 years later.