Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh downcow...keep it up. Fooling no-one.

Everyone knows why you went green...piggybacking.

We originally played in ‘St Patrick’s blue’ but went green in the early 1900s.
I honestly have no idea why the change. Maybe you will enlighten us? Seems you are implying some sinister reason!

Hqrry113

Northern Ireland, a state made against the will of the vast majority of people in Ireland under the threat of "immediate and terrible war"

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

We originally played in ‘St Patrick’s blue’ but went green in the early 1900s.
I honestly have no idea why the change. Maybe you will enlighten us? Seems you are implying some sinister reason!

They wanted to be seen as an Irish team?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They wanted to be seen as an Irish team?

I am not sure what you point was. We changed to green while we were ireland. That was before 26 counties decided to leave the uk, and also before the breakaway 26 county team was set up.
You should be thanking ni football team. They are undoubtedly the single biggest reasons young (an old) unionist love the colour green. We keep a wee bit of St Patrick’s blue in our jerseys just in honour of our past.

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

I am not sure what you point was. We changed to green while we were ireland. That was before 26 counties decided to leave the uk, and also before the breakaway 26 county team was set up.
You should be thanking ni football team. They are undoubtedly the single biggest reasons young (an old) unionist love the colour green. We keep a wee bit of St Patrick’s blue in our jerseys just in honour of our past.

The thirty-two counties would have left the UK if the Ulster-Scots had accepted the will of the Irish people and didn't threaten violence to achieve their political aims. I recognise your community’s Ulster-Scots identity, do not view you as Irish and can see how you may have a different historical perspective. However, what absolute drivel and a myopic rewriting of history. Is it any wonder that the native Irish who, when the country was partitioned, were just unfortunate geographically to live in the six counties and were treated for decades as second class citizens in their own land. They have, to this day and to all extent and purposes, rejected the failed Northern Ireland state. Unionists who continue to deny how this failed state was created will only prolong the bitterness felt by many Irish who live in North-east Ulster.

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

The thirty-two counties would have left the UK if the Ulster-Scots had accepted the will of the Irish people and didn't threaten violence to achieve their political aims. I recognise your community’s Ulster-Scots identity, do not view you as Irish and can see how you may have a different historical perspective. However, what absolute drivel and a myopic rewriting of history. Is it any wonder that the native Irish who, when the country was partitioned, were just unfortunate geographically to live in the six counties and were treated for decades as second class citizens in their own land. They have, to this day and to all extent and purposes, rejected the failed Northern Ireland state. Unionists who continue to deny how this failed state was created will only prolong the bitterness felt by many Irish who live in North-east Ulster.

Who are you referring to as the native Irish. Are you including Gerry Adams at al. Surely not?
What will your narrative be when those from a catholic nationalist background are the majority and there is still a majority wanting to stay in the Uk.
You need to plan your narrative cause that days coming and your current story will look silly.

....and tell me. Would you view me as northern Irish ?

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

Who are you referring to as the native Irish. Are you including Gerry Adams at al. Surely not?
What will your narrative be when those from a catholic nationalist background are the majority and there is still a majority wanting to stay in the Uk.
You need to plan your narrative cause that days coming and your current story will look silly.

....and tell me. Would you view me as northern Irish ?

I’m quoting John Taylor (now Lord Kilclooney) former MP for Strangford who stated that Ulster-Scots was the preferred identify for ‘Ulster’ folk from the Protestant tradition. You can identify yourself whatever way to wish. The GFA gives you that prerogative.
I suspect that northern nationalists who vote to remain in the UK are doing so for economic reasons. Once that economic hurdle is overcome then, I believe, they will be move to voting for reunification with their fellow Irish.

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

I’m quoting John Taylor (now Lord Kilclooney) former MP for Strangford who stated that Ulster-Scots was the preferred identify for ‘Ulster’ folk from the Protestant tradition. You can identify yourself whatever way to wish. The GFA gives you that prerogative.
I suspect that northern nationalists who vote to remain in the UK are doing so for economic reasons. Once that economic hurdle is overcome then, I believe, they will be move to voting for reunification with their fellow Irish.

john taylor is talking out of his ...
ulster-scots is not out nationality

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

john taylor is talking out of his ...
ulster-scots is not out nationality

Taylor was the deputy leader of the UUP (when they were the main Unionist party) and an MP for many years, so if he was, as you state, talking nonsense then what does that say about the then unionist leadership?
With regards 'Ulster Scots':
The Ulster Scots (Ulster-Scots: Ulstèr-Scotch, Irish: Ultais), also called Ulster Scots people (Ulstèr-Scotch fowk)[7] or (in North America) Scotch-Irish (Scotch-Airisch[8]), are an ethnic group[9][10][11][12] in Ireland, found mostly in the province of Ulster and to a lesser extent in the rest of Ireland. Their ancestors were mostly Protestant Presbyterian Lowland Scottish colonists,[13] the largest numbers coming from Galloway, Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire, Ayrshire and the Scottish Borders including nearby parts of Northern England, with others coming from further north in the Scottish Lowlands and, to a much lesser extent, from the Highlands.
These Scots migrated to Ireland in large numbers both as a result of the government-sanctioned Plantation of Ulster, a planned process of colonisation which took place under the auspices of James VI of Scotland and I of England on land confiscated from members of the Gaelic nobility of Ireland who fled Ulster, and as part of a larger migration or unplanned wave of settlement.

Wikipaedia.

Granadino

On a side note, the NI football shirts, home and away, have been streets ahead of the horrible ugly ROI shirts the last few years or so, the last 10 years anyhow.
That gammy ROI jersey with the sponsor. Puke...

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

As a tiny minority on this forum, many posters think the way to deal with unionists on here is to brow beat them and keep disagreeing often enough to undermine them.

See your post fionn (one of many from several posters) on this subject. ...and then note what the alliance party leader stated last night about the sf/sdlp request for Irish signs in Belfast (which I was told here was a very fair and reasonable system). Michael long has last night described it as ‘reckless’

Downcow, I'd appreciate if you didn't quote my posts (which at the time you fully conceded as accurate) out of context to try and make some sort of twisted sectarian point.

My position on Irish language signage has remained consistent throughout, and will continue to be so, despite your constant attempts to make it an issue.

Sunny Disposition

Posts comments show that Northern Ireland is a failure, the division is incredible, and it’s not even starting to get better.

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

Taylor was the deputy leader of the UUP (when they were the main Unionist party) and an MP for many years, so if he was, as you state, talking nonsense then what does that say about the then unionist leadership?
With regards 'Ulster Scots':
The Ulster Scots (Ulster-Scots: Ulstèr-Scotch, Irish: Ultais), also called Ulster Scots people (Ulstèr-Scotch fowk)[7] or (in North America) Scotch-Irish (Scotch-Airisch[8]), are an ethnic group[9][10][11][12] in Ireland, found mostly in the province of Ulster and to a lesser extent in the rest of Ireland. Their ancestors were mostly Protestant Presbyterian Lowland Scottish colonists,[13] the largest numbers coming from Galloway, Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire, Ayrshire and the Scottish Borders including nearby parts of Northern England, with others coming from further north in the Scottish Lowlands and, to a much lesser extent, from the Highlands.
These Scots migrated to Ireland in large numbers both as a result of the government-sanctioned Plantation of Ulster, a planned process of colonisation which took place under the auspices of James VI of Scotland and I of England on land confiscated from members of the Gaelic nobility of Ireland who fled Ulster, and as part of a larger migration or unplanned wave of settlement.

Wikipaedia.

You make my point for me. Wikipedia confirms that John Taylor is talking nonsense when he says “ Ulster-Scots was the preferred identify for ‘Ulster’ folk from the Protestant tradition“
John Taylor said some very important and accurate stuff but he is plain wrong here.
A very large section of people “from the Protestant tradition” in ni are absolutely not from the Ulster Scots Presbyterian tradition, so it would seem odd for them to want to be referred to as such. In fairness to JT his constituency was probably the most Ulster Scots in ni.
...but my biggest issue with his statement is him deciding for others what the want to be referred to. He sounds like a few republican posters on here who would say those same people are Irish

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Downcow, I'd appreciate if you didn't quote my posts (which at the time you fully conceded as accurate) out of context to try and make some sort of twisted sectarian point.

My position on Irish language signage has remained consistent throughout, and will continue to be so, despite your constant attempts to make it an issue.

I can’t remember conceding you post was accurate, but if I did, the Michael long has just proved both of us were wrong

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

The thirty-two counties would have left the UK if the Ulster-Scots had accepted the will of the Irish people and didn't threaten violence to achieve their political aims. I recognise your community’s Ulster-Scots identity, do not view you as Irish and can see how you may have a different historical perspective. However, what absolute drivel and a myopic rewriting of history. Is it any wonder that the native Irish who, when the country was partitioned, were just unfortunate geographically to live in the six counties and were treated for decades as second class citizens in their own land. They have, to this day and to all extent and purposes, rejected the failed Northern Ireland state. Unionists who continue to deny how this failed state was created will only prolong the bitterness felt by many Irish who live in North-east Ulster.

I am still wondering if you regard Gerry Adams et al as “native Irish”?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You make my point for me. Wikipedia confirms that John Taylor is talking nonsense when he says “ Ulster-Scots was the preferred identify for ‘Ulster’ folk from the Protestant tradition“
John Taylor said some very important and accurate stuff but he is plain wrong here.
A very large section of people “from the Protestant tradition” in ni are absolutely not from the Ulster Scots Presbyterian tradition, so it would seem odd for them to want to be referred to as such. In fairness to JT his constituency was probably the most Ulster Scots in ni.
...but my biggest issue with his statement is him deciding for others what the want to be referred to. He sounds like a few republican posters on here who would say those same people are Irish

The football team wants to be Irish but you aren't?

Confused folks? Tune in for more hilarious episodes as the twisting and contorting continues.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The football team wants to be Irish but you aren't?

Confused folks? Tune in for more hilarious episodes as the twisting and contorting continues.

Now what makes you think the team wants to be Irish?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Now what makes you think the team wants to be Irish?

Em...let's see now...would it be the name - Northern Ireland

I'm pretty sure there is only one of those two words that refers to a country. What do you think?

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Scottish Gaelic has status in Scotland.

Welsh has status is Wales.

So why isn't the Irish language recognised the same way in N******* Ireland?

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

I am still wondering if you regard Gerry Adams et al as “native Irish”?

the answer to that question is exactly the same as the answer i gave to your previous related question. Just like you, Gerry Adams is given the prerogative by the GFA to identify as he so wishes. Not sure what you mean by 'and others'?

downcow

Five Eighth wrote: »

the answer to that question is exactly the same as the answer i gave to your previous related question. Just like you, Gerry Adams is given the prerogative by the GFA to identify as he so wishes. Not sure what you mean by 'and others'?

That’s a bit of a spin and cop out. You were clearly implying that there were ‘native Irish’ and that didn’t include those of us wish to remain part of the uk.
Please explain who these ‘native Irish’ are

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Em...let's see now...would it be the name - Northern Ireland

I'm pretty sure there is only one of those two words that refers to a country. What do you think?

You just don’t get it do you.
You want to call me Irish because I am Northern Irish and british.
I am no more Irish that those who live in South America are American.
Try telling a South American that they are Americans lol
Can you try to get your head around that. It’s not so difficult?
Are you british just because you live in the british isles?

The hypocrisy of some in this forum is astounding, but also eye opening

downcow

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Scottish Gaelic has status in Scotland.

Welsh has status is Wales.

So why isn't the Irish language recognised the same way in N******* Ireland?

If the Roi media, print or television talk about Scotland they call it Scotland, if they talk about wales they call it wales. So why when the talk about Northern Ireland s the default position ‘the north’?

Five Eighth

downcow wrote: »

That’s a bit of a spin and cop out. You were clearly implying that there were ‘native Irish’ and that didn’t include those of us wish to remain part of the uk.
Please explain who these ‘native Irish’ are

The Irish (Irish: Muintir na hÉireann or Na hÉireannaigh) are a nation and ethnic group native to the island of Ireland, who share a common Irish ancestry, identity and culture. Ireland has been inhabited for about 12,500 years according to archaeological studies
-Wikipaedia

Not quite sure what you are getting at...

Charles Babbage

downcow wrote: »

You just don’t get it do you.
You want to call me Irish because I am Northern Irish and british.
I am no more Irish that those who live in South America are American.
Try telling a South American that they are Americans lol
Can you try to get your head around that. It’s not so difficult?
Are you british just because you live in the british isles?

The hypocrisy of some in this forum is astounding, but also eye opening

Northern Irish is denomination of Irish, like Eastern Irish.
The places the British call the British Isles is multiple places.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

downcow wrote: »

If the Roi media, print or television talk about Scotland they call it Scotland, if they talk about wales they call it wales. So why when the talk about Northern Ireland s the default position ‘the north’?

Because we claim it as our own. That's a moot point anyway. If it is supposedly part of the UK it should be treated as such, including language.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You just don’t get it do you.
You want to call me Irish because I am Northern Irish and british.
I am no more Irish that those who live in South America are American.
Try telling a South American that they are Americans lol
Can you try to get your head around that. It’s not so difficult?
Are you british just because you live in the british isles?

The hypocrisy of some in this forum is astounding, but also eye opening

They are Americans, they come from The America's.

That you cannot see past the US of America is your issue again.

So the Northern Irish team is not an Irish team now? Twist and turn and hitting cul de sac's of your own nonsense again.

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

That’s a bit of a spin and cop out. You were clearly implying that there were ‘native Irish’ and that didn’t include those of us wish to remain part of the uk.
Please explain who these ‘native Irish’ are

Wait, so you don't want to be Irish, yet you're offended when you think someone is saying you're not Native Irish ?

downcow

trashcan wrote: »

Wait, so you don't want to be Irish, yet you're offended when you think someone is saying you're not Native Irish ?

Why do republicans never answer questions?
I am not in the slightest offended.
I am asking a poster if he includes Gerry Adams in his ‘native Irish’ and if, so does he also include me? ...and before we get a cop out like eg he doesn’t know me, lets replace me with eg Rory mcillroy?

So. Any answers out there in fantasy land?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are Americans, they come from The America's.

That you cannot see past the US of America is your issue again.

So the Northern Irish team is not an Irish team now? Twist and turn and hitting cul de sac's of your own nonsense again.

I have a good friend from South America. I will ask her tomorrow if she regards herself as an American and I’ll come back to you.