Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

lawred2

downcow wrote: »

So lawred, eg if you wanted to refer to the group of people who live on this island but don’t have access to the nhs how would you do it in a word?

Ps I know loads of people who don’t even live on this island who refer to themselves as Irish. So that doesn’t really work

Irish residents.

grayzer75

lawred2 wrote: »

Irish residents.

Seriously?

Everyone knows there's nicknames for various parts of the country and most are harmless or just in jest so nobody should be taking offence.

downcow

lawred2 wrote: »

Irish residents.

You might offend northern nationalists with that term. Since gfa they are allowed to refer to themselves as Irish residents afaik

downcow

lawred2 wrote: »

Irish residents.

I remember my first visit to Dublin, and a taxi driver who did not appreciate my driving technique hollering at me ‘go back the the black north you stupid barstewart’. Is that still a term used? It didn’t offend me in the slightest. I remember I actually blew him a kiss, to encourage international relationships

downcow

downcow wrote: »

So lawred, eg if you wanted to refer to the group of people who live on this island but don’t have access to the nhs how would you do it in a word?

Ps I know loads of people who don’t even live on this island who refer to themselves as Irish. So that doesn’t really work

Maybe this will work
https://ibb.co/thyw4H2

ittakestwo

lawred2 wrote: »

Irish residents.

Confusing as anybody who lives anywhere in Ireland can be called Irish resident? Southerner is fine in the context of separating NI to ROI.

Could be used in this context between two people in NI:

"Southerners have the advantage of still being able to access European courts"

lawred2

downcow wrote: »

You might offend northern nationalists with that term. Since gfa they are allowed to refer to themselves as Irish residents afaik

There's a difference between Irish citizenship and Irish residency.

I can be an Irish citizen resident in Australia.

lawred2

downcow wrote: »

I remember my first visit to Dublin, and a taxi driver who did not appreciate my driving technique hollering at me ‘go back the the black north you stupid barstewart’. Is that still a term used? It didn’t offend me in the slightest. I remember I actually blew him a kiss, to encourage international relationships

black north?

never heard that in my life

taxi drivers are often bastions of poor manners

downcow

lawred2 wrote: »

There's a difference between Irish citizenship and Irish residency.

I can be an Irish citizen resident in Australia.

No doubt. But I still think you will offend a northern nationalist by telling them they are not an Irish resident.
Try it with a few shinners and tell me how you get along. I don’t think they will mind being called northerners though

lawred2

downcow wrote: »

No doubt. But I still think you will offend a northern nationalist by telling them they are not an Irish resident.
Try it with a few shinners and tell me how you get along. I don’t think they will mind being called northerners though

why would I say that to them? I don't differentiate.

I think Irish citizens resident in Northern Ireland are well aware of what their legal and state entitlements are. They don't need me telling them anything.

downcow

lawred2 wrote: »

why would I say that to them? I don't differentiate.

I think Irish citizens resident in Northern Ireland are well aware of what their legal and state entitlements are. They don't need me telling them anything.

You are the one that is suggesting that I refer to people who live in the 26 counties as Irish residents to differentiate them from all other Irish people who live on this planet. I am pointing out to you that your friends north of the border may not appreciate that, and that southerners and northerners is a much more appropriate way to refer to them.
You are just trying to spray that old confusion mist again because your initial point is looking a little bit ridiculous

lawred2

downcow wrote: »

You are the one that is suggesting that I refer to people who live in the 26 counties as Irish residents to differentiate them from all other Irish people who live on this planet. I am pointing out to you that your friends north of the border may not appreciate that, and that southerners and northerners is a much more appropriate way to refer to them.
You are just trying to spray that old confusion mist again because your initial point is looking a little bit ridiculous

huh?

You asked a specific point regarding entitlement to use state services!

Irish residents are those that are residents of the Irish state. They are different in their legal entitlements and obligations from those Irish citizens that reside in Canada!

Which bit are you struggling with?

downcow

lawred2 wrote: »

huh?

You asked a specific point regarding entitlement to use state services!

Irish residents are those that are residents of the Irish state. They are different in their legal entitlements and obligations from those Irish citizens that reside in Canada!

Which bit are you struggling with?

I think everyone else can see what is going on Lawred so I will not lose too much energy in this.
I used the term southeners in reference to the people who live in the 26 counties. I was told I was being offensive by using that term.
I asked what an appropriate term would be for the people living in the 26 counties.
You said I should refer to them as Irish residents.
I said I know quite a few nationalists living in the North who would likely regard themselves as Irish residents and would be offended if you use that title exclusively for the 26 counties.
You obviously realised that southeners was a more appropriate term for the group I was referring to, and rather than just admit it, you duck and dive and try to deflect.
I don't know why you have such a problem with saying 'you know DC, you are actually correct to use the term southeners'.

Now unless you actually come back with something interesting, I will regard this issue as sorted, and I will continue to use the term southeners

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I think everyone else can see what is going on Lawred so I will not lose too much energy in this.
I used the term southeners in reference to the people who live in the 26 counties. I was told I was being offensive by using that term.
I asked what an appropriate term would be for the people living in the 26 counties.
You said I should refer to them as Irish residents.
I said I know quite a few nationalists living in the North who would likely regard themselves as Irish residents and would be offended if you use that title exclusively for the 26 counties.
You obviously realised that southeners was a more appropriate term for the group I was referring to, and rather than just admit it, you duck and dive and try to deflect.
I don't know why you have such a problem with saying 'you know DC, you are actually correct to use the term southeners'.

Now unless you actually come back with something interesting, I will regard this issue as sorted, and I will continue to use the term southeners

Lovely to see you finally use the geography to describe the citizens of the island downcow.

Northeners and southerners of the one island - Ireland.

The Wolfetones would be proud of you:

North men, South men, comrades all
Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Donegal
We're on the one road.............

Chiparus

downcow wrote: »

Fitz posted a poll recently demonstrating that every age group living in ni are happy with it. Does it really matter what southerners think? And thanks to the gfa, we control our own destiny. Thank god for the gfa.

Why do so many vote for parties that want a united Ireland.

blanch152

Chiparus wrote: »

Why do so many vote for parties that want a united Ireland.

That total vote is dropping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

2019: 37.7%


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

2017: 41.1%


The appetite for a united Ireland appears to be decreasing.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Lovely to see you finally use the geography to describe the citizens of the island downcow.

Northeners and southerners of the one island - Ireland.

The Wolfetones would be proud of you:

North men, South men, comrades all
Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Donegal
We're on the one road.............

Class Francie. I never thought I would be in such company, lol

downcow

Chiparus wrote: »

Why do so many vote for parties that want a united Ireland.

I am not sure what parties you are referring to. blanch has just posted a link showing the nine main parties. This is my reading of them - maybe others will disagree.
DUP - absolutely UK
UUP - absolutely UK
TUV - absolutely UK
NI conservatives - absolutely UK
Alliance party - do not declare (a recent poll of their members showed that 75% wish to remain in the UK)
Greens - I am guessing they are neutral
People before Profit - not sure (possibly a united Ireland leaning)
SDLP - publicly for a united Ireland (speak to their politicians or voters privately and you will find a substantial number accept that it is just a romantic notion that they would aspire to someday, but absolutely not now)
Sinn Fein - United Ireland (but again recent polls of their voters suggest they are absolutely not 100% in favour of a united Ireland in the short term)

So I do not know where you get the idea that most people vote for parties who want a united Ireland - the shinners do do a good job at spinning that story mind you

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am not sure what parties you are referring to.

So I do not know where you get the idea that most people vote for parties who want a united Ireland - the shinners do do a good job at spinning that story mind you

He/she didn't say 'most people'.

And you talk about people 'spinning'.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He/she didn't say 'most people'.

And you talk about people 'spinning'.

Apologies Chiparus, as Francie has pointed out I misquoted you. You are not missing much this evening Francie.

Now Chiparus that I have been honest about my mistake, could you tell us whether you were suggesting 'most' people. I don't blame you if you were because the shinners have been masters at spinning this - and they certainly don't own up to their intended mistakes

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Apologies Chiparus, as Francie has pointed out I misquoted you. You are not missing much this evening Francie.

Now Chiparus that I have been honest about my mistake, could you tell us whether you were suggesting 'most' people. I don't blame you if you were because the shinners have been masters at spinning this - and they certainly don't own up to their intended mistakes

He/she asked you the question.

You are avoiding it by pointing at themuns. Tired old nonsense.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He/she asked you the question.

You are avoiding it by pointing at themuns. Tired old nonsense.

Maybe you would let Chiparus decide whether I answered the question not. I made a very genuine attempt to outline the position of each party on a united Ireland - I am assuming you agree otherwise you would not be long telling me.

I am happy to clarify if he/she wants me to

FrancieBrady

You didn't answer this. Anyone with eyes in their head can see that.

Why do so many vote for parties that want a united Ireland.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You didn't answer this. Anyone with eyes in their head can see that.

I thought my answer was obvious Francie. But maybe I misunderstood the question. Are you suggesting that the question is - why do so many vote for sinn fein? (as the only party who genuinely is committed to a united Ireland).

I suppose my answer to that question would be - I am as bamboozled as everyone else. I think it is around 30+ percent vote for them. But then sure I also wonder how a far higher percentage than that voted for Donald Trump?
These are some of the great puzzles in life

WhenPigsCry

downcow wrote: »

But then sure I also wonder how a far higher percentage than that voted for Donald Trump?
These are some of the great puzzles in life

Ask the DUP. They are fans.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I thought my answer was obvious Francie. But maybe I misunderstood the question. Are you suggesting that the question is - why do so many vote for sinn fein? (as the only party who genuinely is committed to a united Ireland).

I suppose my answer to that question would be - I am as bamboozled as everyone else. I think it is around 30+ percent vote for them. But then sure I also wonder how a far higher percentage than that voted for Donald Trump?
These are some of the great puzzles in life

So now you change the question and answer it? :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

Anybody claiming that NI is anything but a failed state after the last few days in Stormont is deluding themselves and others.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Anybody claiming that NI is anything but a failed state after the last few days in Stormont is deluding themselves and others.

Well, SF and the PIRA agreed to a peace deal that cemented NI as part of the UK.
Best get on with running the show, or is it just too hard? Maybe SF are just not up for it?

BonnieSituation

markodaly wrote: »

Well, SF and the PIRA agreed to a peace deal that cemented NI as part of the UK.
Best get on with running the show, or is it just too hard? Maybe SF are just not up for it?

Have you anything to say about the DUP's role in this mess?

Fuascailteoir

blanch152 wrote: »

That total vote is dropping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

2019: 37.7%


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

2017: 41.1%


The appetite for a united Ireland appears to be decreasing.

And the british are on the verge of taking a shotgun and blasting off both of their own feet. Can see where the north fits in as a funding priority for them over the last number of weeks.