Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

Zico

This **** will go on for centuries.

Nagorno-Karabakh sparks up after 20 years, who knows why.

We're better off accepting an imperfect peace than absolute conflict.

Hqrry113

Zico wrote: »

This **** will go on for centuries.

Nagorno-Karabakh sparks up after 20 years, who knows why.

We're better off accepting an imperfect peace than absolute conflict.

That statement is ridiculous, you're saying this has been going on for centuries if the Brits had have left the whole of Ireland at anytime during the last few centuries yes there may have been conflict for a few years but once we resolved it as a nation it would be resolved forever but while Britain remains here the division will last forever.

Hqrry113

downcow wrote: »

You might offend northern nationalists with that term. Since gfa they are allowed to refer to themselves as Irish residents afaik

Before the GFA people in the north weren't even allowed to be in possession of the Irish flag, people were having their doors kicked in by the army and their funerals attacked for having an irish flag.

downcow

Hqrry113 wrote: »

That statement is ridiculous, you're saying this has been going on for centuries if the Brits had have left the whole of Ireland at anytime during the last few centuries yes there may have been conflict for a few years but once we resolved it as a nation it would be resolved forever but while Britain remains here the division will last forever.

What a rediculous and sectarian statement. So me and 1 million other people, who have been here longer than white people in most countries outside Europe, should just get out? Should the Irish get out of the USA and Australia etc and give those lands back to the last owners. Or does this policy just apply to the people you don’t like in Ireland. Would you also kick the travelling community and migrant people’s out?

downcow

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Before the GFA people in the north weren't even allowed to be in possession of the Irish flag, people were having their doors kicked in by the army and their funerals attacked for having an irish flag.

This must take the prize as the post containing most nonsense in 2020

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Have you anything to say about the DUP's role in this mess?

Sf are extremely hard to work with. Arlene and Michelle done a deal on Friday to be announced on Monday. Then Michelle got her collar pulled by those that control her party that she can’t go ahead with it because it is too different than Roi position. So all hell breaks loose again.
It is hard to deal with a person who is only a figurehead and can’t make final decisions

Hqrry113

downcow wrote: »

What a rediculous and sectarian statement. So me and 1 million other people, who have been here longer than white people in most countries outside Europe, should just get out? Should the Irish get out of the USA and Australia etc and give those lands back to the last owners. Or does this policy just apply to the people you don’t like in Ireland. Would you also kick the travelling community and migrant people’s out?

I never said anything about kicking you and your loyalist friends out what are you talking about?

You clearly don't understand anything about Irish culture and sayings which is fair enough, your ancestors were mentally trained to hate and suppress Irish culture when they were sent over here hundreds of years ago.

So if you have never understood this over the years when people say "brits out" it's a referral to British occupation/institutions/soldiers and not to loyalists, no one is telling you to get out, all republicans have ever wanted is for the Irish people to live freely and decide their fate as a sovereign people without outside intervention from the British state.

Hqrry113

downcow wrote: »

This must take the prize as the post containing most nonsense in 2020

Then you should learn your history before commenting on subjects you don't have a clue about before posting on here.

Hqrry113

downcow wrote: »

This must take the prize as the post containing most nonsense in 2020

The first few seconds of this video will have this guy thinking twice before he accuses people of making the "most nonsense post of 2020"

He said that because of my previous post about the Irish flag being illegal in northern Ireland and people's funerals being attacked over it, this is the funeral of an IRA man (hence the reason it's on YouTube) but this used to happen to ordinary people too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxZ2yu1BFzM

Doubt we'll see him back on this thread for a while.

downcow

Hqrry113 wrote: »

I never said anything about kicking you and your loyalist friends oute.

This is exactly what you said.
“....if the Brits had have left the whole of Ireland at anytime during the last few centuries....”

Whether you like it or not there are a million brits living on this island and the murderous sectarian campaign you video relates to did not shift us, so it is unlikely that you will wish us away.

Without going through all you nonsense in detail, the Irish flag was never illegal in Northern Ireland. Fact. So you are just wrong. Ask any gaa member if you don’t believe me.

Going forward, if you want to state simple ‘facts’ you have learnt from fireside republicans, then just put them on here, one at a time, and I will either demystify them for you or confirm their accuracy- I reckon, given you recent contributions, it will usually be the former.

At you service

grayzer75

downcow wrote: »

Sf are extremely hard to work with. Arlene and Michelle done a deal on Friday to be announced on Monday. Then Michelle got her collar pulled by those that control her party that she can’t go ahead with it because it is too different than Roi position. So all hell breaks loose again.
It is hard to deal with a person who is only a figurehead and can’t make final decisions

Hang on so you are saying it's SF's fault that the DUP have gone against the UUP, SDLP, Alliance, SF and the scientific advisors - that's absolute nonsense.

The numbers are still sky high and the scientific advice is to keep the lockdown going for another two weeks to drive the numbers down a bit more so we can open up for Christmas. DUP using cross-community vetoes to block agreement on the issue says a lot about them tbh but I'm not surprised.

TheCitizen

downcow wrote: »

What a rediculous and sectarian statement. So me and 1 million other people, who have been here longer than white people in most countries outside Europe, should just get out? Should the Irish get out of the USA and Australia etc and give those lands back to the last owners. Or does this policy just apply to the people you don’t like in Ireland. Would you also kick the travelling community and migrant people’s out?

Typical strawmanning. The poster you quoted said no such thing but you tie him up answering something he never said while you play for time.

downcow

grayzer75 wrote: »

Hang on so you are saying it's SF's fault that the DUP have gone against the UUP, SDLP, Alliance, SF and the scientific advisors - that's absolute nonsense.

The numbers are still sky high and the scientific advice is to keep the lockdown going for another two weeks to drive the numbers down a bit more so we can open up for Christmas. DUP using cross-community vetoes to block agreement on the issue says a lot about them tbh but I'm not surprised.

No that is not at all what i said.
It’s clearly what you wished I had said.

grayzer75

downcow wrote: »

No that is not at all what i said.
It’s clearly what you wished I had said.

You said a deal was made on Friday and it was SF's fault that it didn't happen. MON was on TV on Sunday saying they were still in discussions, were hopeful they could get an agreement to open up some services but ultimately they would be guided by the science - all other parties except for the DUP said similar things over the weekend.

The lockdown should continue until the end of the month as the majority of the assemble and scientific advisors agree so should you not be putting the blame at the door of the DUP or are they above criticism in your eyes?

TheCitizen

downcow wrote: »

This is exactly what you said.
“....if the Brits had have left the whole of Ireland at anytime during the last few centuries....”

Whether you like it or not there are a million brits living on this island and the murderous sectarian campaign you video relates to did not shift us, so it is unlikely that you will wish us away.

Without going through all you nonsense in detail, the Irish flag was never illegal in Northern Ireland. Fact. So you are just wrong. Ask any gaa member if you don’t believe me.

Going forward, if you want to state simple ‘facts’ you have learnt from fireside republicans, then just put them on here, one at a time, and I will either demystify them for you or confirm their accuracy- I reckon, given you recent contributions, it will usually be the former.

At you service

There’s millions of Irish living in Britain and in the US and elsewhere. There has been communities in those countries but they didn’t seek to partition where they emigrated to.

I see Lord Taylor whatever his name is is on record that if Scotland votes for Independence it should be partitioned. There’s a difference between a community of people maintaining an identity and partitioning countries by imposing their identity on the host nation. A massive difference. In The North the Unionist communities did do exactly that when the British vouched for them. Brexit changes everything, you’ve got to realise that.

downcow

TheCitizen wrote: »

Typical strawmanning. The poster you quoted said no such thing but you tie him up answering something he never said while you play for time.

So you are telling me that he didn’t say “ if the Brits had have left the whole of Ireland at anytime during the last few centuries......”?

The only excuse he could give was that he meant our army and government and that I should have known that

That would be like me saying - ‘if the Catholics had have left the whole of Ireland at anytime during the last few centuries then there would have been no child abuse.’
Then when he points out that includes him and few other millions, I could say ‘don’t be stupid, I mean the higherarcy and the priests’. It would be pretty offensive and inconsiderate don’t you think.

Some of you guys need to take off your blinkers.

And I should also say that I regularly challenge members of my community up here, who thinks everyone south of the border thinks the same and wants us out, that my experience of this forum is that most people in the south are fair, open minded, and very reasonable. But that of course some have taken the sf propaganda hook line and sinker

downcow

TheCitizen wrote: »

There’s millions of Irish living in Britain and in the US and elsewhere. There has been communities in those countries but they didn’t seek to partition where they emigrated to.

I see Lord Taylor whatever his name is is on record that if Scotland votes for Independence it should be partitioned. There’s a difference between a community of people maintaining an identity and partitioning countries by imposing their identity on the host nation. A massive difference. In The North the Unionist communities did do exactly that when the British vouched for them. Brexit changes everything, you’ve got to realise that.

I think what you are saying is that if ‘brits’ had driven out all the Irish except for creating a few reservations for those they didn’t kill, then that would be more acceptable that the current situation - or am I hearing you wrong?

downcow

downcow wrote: »

I think what you are saying is that if ‘brits’ had driven out all the Irish except for creating a few reservations for those they didn’t kill, then that would be more acceptable that the current situation - or am I hearing you wrong?

....and I thought North America was partitioned. Are are you going to blame the natives for that.

Annd9

I see Downcows post quoting Hermann Kelly and my reply have been deleted , strange one

TheCitizen

downcow wrote: »

I think what you are saying is that if ‘brits’ had driven out all the Irish except for creating a few reservations for those they didn’t kill, then that would be more acceptable that the current situation - or am I hearing you wrong?

Maybe you’re replying to a different post is the only thing that I can say about that post

downcow

Annd9 wrote: »

I see Downcows post quoting Hermann Kelly and my reply have been deleted , strange one

Yeah I thought I was going insane. Glad you’ve confirmed it was there.
No doubt there are a few on here will blame the brits and MI5

downcow

TheCitizen wrote: »

Maybe you’re replying to a different post is the only thing that I can say about that post

Well let me sanitise it’s a bit for you.
Were you saying that brits should leave Ireland but it’s not as unacceptable for Irish to stay in Australia and USA?
Apologies if that is not what you are saying and you believe all have equal legitimacy

TheCitizen

downcow wrote: »

Well let me sanitise it’s a bit for you.
Were you saying that brits should leave Ireland but it’s not as unacceptable for Irish to stay in Australia and USA?
Apologies if that is not what you are saying and you believe all have equal legitimacy

No not at all. The Unionists are entirely entitled and welcome to stay. They’re also entitled to maintain their identity. With Brexit their position is likely to change. The Westminster government was their guarantor in Northern Ireland.

If the UK breaks up because of Brexit, if Scotland leaves, the Unionists in the North will find themselves as something more akin to an ex pat Brit community in Ireland rather than living in part of the UK as it has been up to now.

votecounts

markodaly wrote: »

Well, SF and the PIRA agreed to a peace deal that cemented NI as part of the UK.
Best get on with running the show, or is it just too hard? Maybe SF are just not up for it?

The current mess up there lies with one party only and that is the DUP. All other parties is in agreement with restrictions and want to protect peoples lives. But then again, I wouldn't expect many here to have a go at the DUP.

downcow

TheCitizen wrote: »

No not at all. The Unionists are entirely entitled and welcome to stay. They’re also entitled to maintain their identity. With Brexit their position is likely to change. The Westminster government was their guarantor in Northern Ireland.

If the UK breaks up because of Brexit, if Scotland leaves, the Unionists in the North will find themselves as something more akin to an ex pat Brit community in Ireland rather than living in part of the UK as it has been up to now.

Westminster can’t Chuck is out thanks to the GFA. I also do not hear anyone at Westminster suggesting we are chucked out.
You might be doing some wishful thinking

downcow

votecounts wrote: »

The current mess up there lies with one party only and that is the DUP. All other parties is in agreement with restrictions and want to protect peoples lives. But then again, I wouldn't expect many here to have a go at the DUP.

That’s a little simplistic. The reporters of all media up here are clearly focusing on the shinners making a deal and then summersaulting the next day
Michelle made her big statement clearly because she knows she is getting blamed.
I would not place the blame completely with any of them. It’s a bit more complex than that

grayzer75

downcow wrote: »

That’s a little simplistic. The reporters of all media up here are clearly focusing on the shinners making a deal and then summersaulting the next day
Michelle made her big statement clearly because she knows she is getting blamed.
I would not place the blame completely with any of them. It’s a bit more complex than that

Would you have preffered she went ahead with the deal and go against the scientific advice?

TheCitizen

downcow wrote: »

Westminster can’t Chuck is out thanks to the GFA. I also do not hear anyone at Westminster suggesting we are chucked out.
You might be doing some wishful thinking

When it happens and the UK breaks up they won’t be so much “chucking you out”, they’ll just leave you behind. There are strong indications that Scotland will go, Brexit hasn’t even started yet

FrancieBrady

votecounts wrote: »

The current mess up there lies with one party only and that is the DUP. All other parties is in agreement with restrictions and want to protect peoples lives. But then again, I wouldn't expect many here to have a go at the DUP.

The blunt fact here is that the failure of partition is now a threat to the health of border communities and beyond.

The 'threat' is imminent (from this weekend) if the current shambles cannot be sorted out.

We need our government to call this for what it is, and demand a whole island approach. But of course it won't happen because doing that might make you look like you are supporting the political representatives of most of the Irish people living there.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The blunt fact here is that the failure of partition is now a threat to the health of border communities and beyond.

The 'threat' is imminent (from this weekend) if the current shambles cannot be sorted out.

We need our government to call this for what it is, and demand a whole island approach. But of course it won't happen because doing that might make you look like you are supporting the political representatives of most of the Irish people living there.

And if an all ireland approach is rejected?