Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

grayzer75

jh79 wrote: »

And if an all ireland approach is rejected?

It's too late. The all island approach should have been set out in the summer before the second wave hit. They might get together and sort something out before the third wave.......

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The blunt fact here is that the failure of partition is now a threat to the health of border communities and beyond.

The 'threat' is imminent (from this weekend) if the current shambles cannot be sorted out.

We need our government to call this for what it is, and demand a whole island approach. But of course it won't happen because doing that might make you look like you are supporting the political representatives of most of the Irish people living there.

Thankfully our beloved GFA ensures that cannot be demanded

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

And if an all ireland approach is rejected?

By whom?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By whom?

By Stormont.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The blunt fact here is that the failure of partition is now a threat to the health of border communities and beyond.

The 'threat' is imminent (from this weekend) if the current shambles cannot be sorted out.

We need our government to call this for what it is, and demand a whole island approach. But of course it won't happen because doing that might make you look like you are supporting the political representatives of most of the Irish people living there.

Fantasy land stuff. If you believe in that concept then why not have Stormont demand ROI follow OWC approach

votecounts

Does anyone really think the DUP would be ok with an island approach, MM should have had a go at arlene ast the weekend instead of laying a wreath. Mabe he should lay off the SF Abuse and realise where the problem lies, But again that does suit him here politically

downcow

votecounts wrote: »

Does anyone really think the DUP would be ok with an island approach, MM should have had a go at arlene ast the weekend instead of laying a wreath. Mabe he should lay off the SF Abuse and realise where the problem lies, But again that does suit him here politically

The simple and more effective solution was all British Isles approach. There is so much travel and connection across these islands that that would have been logical
Well?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

By Stormont.

They must do what I said. Call it for what it is and take positive action to protect it's people. The use of the petition of concern/cross community veto to block the will of the majority needs to be called out here.
There are mechanisms within the GFA to air these views at British-Irish council level.

I would say that if no co-operation can be found that they are compelled to immediately seek resolution via a border poll. Let the people decide what is in their best interests.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I would say that if no co-operation can be found that they are compelled to immediately seek resolution via a border poll. Let the people decide what is in their best interests.

A border poll in a pandemic! And how long would that take?

Wouldn't a temp border be a more realistic and quicker way of protecting the people of the Island who we have jurisdiction over?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They must do what I said. Call it for what it is and take positive action to protect it's people. The use of the petition of concern/cross community veto to block the will of the majority needs to be called out here.
There are mechanisms within the GFA to air these views at British-Irish council level.

I would say that if no co-operation can be found that they are compelled to immediately seek resolution via a border poll. Let the people decide what is in their best interests.

and then when the border poll reinforces that a significant majority in OWC don't want a united Island, do you then accept an all-island approach is not the way ahead or does it just work if it goes the way you want?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

A border poll in a pandemic! And how long would that take?

Wouldn't a temp border be a more realistic and quicker way of protecting the people of the Island who we have jurisdiction over?

How many times does it have to be demonstrated, (during the conflict/war, over Brexit and now with a virus that does not recognise an arbitrary porous line) that an attempt to close the land border here will not work?

A demand coming from the Irish government for a border poll will pressure those against an all island approach. Simple as that.

downcow

jh79 wrote: »

A border poll in a pandemic! And how long would that take?

Wouldn't a temp border be a more realistic and quicker way of protecting the people of the Island who we have jurisdiction over?

You are going to put a bigger demand on the health service with calls like that. A few boys on here will be taking unwell lol
but an interesting call

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They must do what I said. Call it for what it is and take positive action to protect it's people. The use of the petition of concern/cross community veto to block the will of the majority needs to be called out here.
There are mechanisms within the GFA to air these views at British-Irish council level.

I would say that if no co-operation can be found that they are compelled to immediately seek resolution via a border poll. Let the people decide what is in their best interests.

Would you send the Irish army in to control this or would you expect the British army to do your beckoning as well?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How many times does it have to be demonstrated, (during the conflict/war, over Brexit and now with a virus that does not recognise an arbitrary porous line) that an attempt to close the land border here will not work?

A demand coming from the Irish government for a border poll will pressure those against an all island approach. Simple as that.

So you'd rather border counties suffer than a temp border, why not take advantage of partition to save lives?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

So you'd rather border counties suffer than a temp border, why not take advantage of partition to save lives?

I have lived on the border for most of my life. It would be a pointless waste of money.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They must do what I said. Call it for what it is and take positive action to protect it's people. The use of the petition of concern/cross community veto to block the will of the majority needs to be called out here.
There are mechanisms within the GFA to air these views at British-Irish council level.

I would say that if no co-operation can be found that they are compelled to immediately seek resolution via a border poll. Let the people decide what is in their best interests.

An unnecessary border poll in the middle of a pandemic?

I have said before that republicans see their cause of being more important than people's lives. Suggestions like that only prove it to be so.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have lived on the border for most of my life. It would be a pointless waste of money.

A few garda patrols on the border wouldn't be much different than the checkpoints outside Dublin at the start of Level 5.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How many times does it have to be demonstrated, (during the conflict/war, over Brexit and now with a virus that does not recognise an arbitrary porous line) that an attempt to close the land border here will not work?

A demand coming from the Irish government for a border poll will pressure those against an all island approach. Simple as that.

It worked during the foot and mouth crisis.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/border-sealed-as-foot-and-mouth-campaign-intensifies-1.375434#:~:text=A%20major%20security%20operation%20continues,and%2Dmouth%20disease%20into%20Ireland.&text=The%20EU%20ban%20on%20British,further%20notice%2C%20said%20Ms%20Rodgers.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/want-to-know-what-a-hard-border-looks-like-the-2001-foot-and-mouth-crisis-holds-the-key-37824268.html

We need to take the same action and close the border now.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

It worked during the foot and mouth crisis.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/border-sealed-as-foot-and-mouth-campaign-intensifies-1.375434#:~:text=A%20major%20security%20operation%20continues,and%2Dmouth%20disease%20into%20Ireland.&text=The%20EU%20ban%20on%20British,further%20notice%2C%20said%20Ms%20Rodgers.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/want-to-know-what-a-hard-border-looks-like-the-2001-foot-and-mouth-crisis-holds-the-key-37824268.html

We need to take the same action and close the border now.

No it didn't. Infected sheep were able to be moved from Meigh in Armagh to Bellurgan in Louth without detection. The outbreak on the farm in Bellurgan led to the culling of all animals on the Cooley Peninsula.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

An unnecessary border poll in the middle of a pandemic?

I have said before that republicans see their cause of being more important than people's lives. Suggestions like that only prove it to be so.

A demand for a border poll is slightly different to actually having one.

I clearly said what the purpose of it would be. A very clear statement from the Irish government that they will not tolerate threats to the health of it's people. That they will support those that want an all island approach to health.

As I said, the threat is imminent, pussyfooting around not offending a branch of belligerent Unionism prepared to abuse Petitions Of Concern is not acceptable.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A demand for a border poll is slightly different to actually having one.

I clearly said what the purpose of it would be. A very clear statement from the Irish government that they will not tolerate threats to the health of it's people. That they will support those that want an all island approach to health.

As I said, the threat is imminent, pussyfooting around not offending a branch of belligerent Unionism prepared to abuse Petitions Of Concern is not acceptable.

Closing the border deals with the threat.

A ban on people travelling to Northern Ireland is much less divisive than a border poll.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

A few garda patrols on the border wouldn't be much different than the checkpoints outside Dublin at the start of Level 5.

Dublin struggled massively to get it's virus problem down. What is your point here. From tomorrow night NI opens up and travel across the border cannot be stopped by a 'few Garda patrols'.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A demand for a border poll is slightly different to actually having one.

I clearly said what the purpose of it would be. A very clear statement from the Irish government that they will not tolerate threats to the health of it's people. That they will support those that want an all island approach to health.

As I said, the threat is imminent, pussyfooting around not offending a branch of belligerent Unionism prepared to abuse Petitions Of Concern is not acceptable.

Again, you'd rather see more infections and deaths in the border areas than have a temp border of any description?

grayzer75

jh79 wrote: »

Again, you'd rather see more infections and deaths in the border areas than have a temp border of any description?

The gardai don't have the resources - they don't even man the current checkpoint for more than 6 hours per day as it is.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dublin struggled massively to get it's virus problem down. What is your point here. From tomorrow night NI opens up and travel across the border cannot be stopped by a 'few Garda patrols'.

Travel to and from Dublin was curtailed and improvements were seen in commuter towns. Dublin's struggles could be due to a number of factors and the majority of counties improved with travel restrictions.

Hqrry113

downcow wrote: »

This is exactly what you said.
“....if the Brits had have left the whole of Ireland at anytime during the last few centuries....”

Whether you like it or not there are a million brits living on this island and the murderous sectarian campaign you video relates to did not shift us, so it is unlikely that you will wish us away.

Without going through all you nonsense in detail, the Irish flag was never illegal in Northern Ireland. Fact. So you are just wrong. Ask any gaa member if you don’t believe me.

Going forward, if you want to state simple ‘facts’ you have learnt from fireside republicans, then just put them on here, one at a time, and I will either demystify them for you or confirm their accuracy- I reckon, given you recent contributions, it will usually be the former.

At you service

I answered this already, the slogan "Brits out" has never referred to protestants it is referring to British rule in Ireland, you are spouting absolute nonsense.

Speaking about you being in denial about the Irish flag being illegal in northern Ireland here it is from the mouths of your Brit masters themselves https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxZ2yu1BFzM

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Again, you'd rather see more infections and deaths in the border areas than have a temp border of any description?

What is a 'temp border'?

Garda checkpoints is not a border. We have garda checkpoints already.

ittakestwo

blanch152 wrote: »

Closing the border deals with the threat.

A ban on people travelling to Northern Ireland is much less divisive than a border poll.

Under level 4, nobody can travel more than 5k from thier home so unless you live within 5k of the NI you cant drive there and there is literally nothing but essential shops open in the south so i cant see why anybody would be travelling here from the north under level 4.

Using C-19 as an excuse for a border

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Closing the border deals with the threat.

A ban on people travelling to Northern Ireland is much less divisive than a border poll.

So the government fight tooth and nail for several years to block the imposition of a hard border for many reasons, not least the physical impossibility of stopping movement of goods and people and you now think it is feasible or practical in stopping an invisible virus?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the government fight tooth and nail for several years to block the imposition of a hard border for many reasons, not least the physical impossibility of stopping movement of goods and people and you now think it is feasible or practical in stopping an invisible virus?

We could do much the same as we did for the counties that went to level 4 early. Garda patrols and fines for those caught moving between the countries for non-essential reasons.