Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

You do know I assume that your new manager has publicly supported one of the most sectarian and cruel terrorists in Northern Irelands history. It’s a matter of record. Let me know if you need the link.

You make the accusation. You provide the link.

You're awful concerned about this issue.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How inclusive you are.

Impressive use of a tar-brush.

Read again. I absolutely did not tar all southerners with one brush. The majority of southerners are not unreasonably sectarian - imho

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Read again. I absolutely did not tar all southerners with one brush.

You stated "large numbers"? You'll need a large brush.

The majority of southerners are not unreasonably sectarian - imho

We're just reasonably sectarian?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You make the accusation. You provide the link.

You're awful concerned about this issue.

I would be more concerned if owc had appointed a manager who publicly supported Jonny Adair or billy wright I just don’t understand why many southerners do see it as an issue

FrancieBrady

According to journalist it was akin to showing Scotland Braveheart to it's players a few years ago. No sectarian content.

Stuff and nonsense I would imagine.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You stated "large numbers"? You'll need a large brush.




We're just reasonably sectarian?

Bonnie. Let me by clear. I am sectarian. I was raised in a situation where I faced ongoing sectarianism from republicans. I inevitably have been left with baggage. I have worked hard to shake it off but I still am clear that I am not entirely neutral. But I think I am not unreasonably sectarian given what my community endured.
You may be an angel. But I think southerners would also be completely reasonable to have some baggage following your suffering at the hands of loyalist sectarian groups.
Hence my comment that most southerners were not unreasonably sectarian

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

According to journalist it was akin to showing Scotland Braveheart to it's players a few years ago. No sectarian content.

Stuff and nonsense I would imagine.

There we are. Francie says a journalist says it’s ok. Pity all your team didn’t think that.
Bonnie this is an example of ‘unreasonably sectarian’ for your reference But probably also outside of his awareness. So we shouldn’t blame him.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

There we are. Francie says a journalist says it’s ok. Pity all your team didn’t think that.
Bonnie this is an example of ‘unreasonably sectarian’ for your reference But probably also outside of his awareness

The history happened downcow. Please look up what 'sectarianism' is please before you start bandying around accusations.


noun: sectarianism
excessive attachment to a particular sect or party, especially in religion.

Feisar

downcow wrote: »

Bonnie. Let me by clear. I am sectarian. I was raised in a situation where I faced ongoing sectarianism from republicans. I inevitably have been left with baggage. I have worked hard to shake it off but I still am clear that I am not entirely neutral. But I think I am not unreasonably sectarian given what my community endured.
You may be an angel. But I think southerners would also be completely reasonable to have some baggage following your suffering at the hands of loyalist sectarian groups.
Hence my comment that most southerners were not unreasonably sectarian

Fair play for being straight up about it (ya black bastard!)

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The history happened downcow. Please look up what 'sectarianism' is please before you start bandying around accusations.


noun: sectarianism
excessive attachment to a particular sect or party, especially in religion.

Francie this is the traditional dictionary definition which is meaningless in the context of how it is used in daily life in ni, Roi, etc. You are at your usual ducking and diving to prevent any responsibility coming upon your community.

If we follow your definition then the pope, mother Theresa, Martin Luther king, Desmond tutu, etc were all sectarian, while mad dog Adair, Martin Magennis, billy Wright, Gerry Adams, etc were all not sectarian. I guess that definition keeps you in the clear also.

I hope someday you face up to reality

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie this is the traditional dictionary definition which is meaningless in the context of how it is used in daily life in ni, Roi, etc. You are at your usual ducking and diving to prevent any responsibility coming upon your community.

If we follow your definition then the pope, mother Theresa, Martin Luther king, Desmond tutu, etc were all sectarian, while mad dog Adair, Martin Magennis, billy Wright, Gerry Adams, etc were all not sectarian. I guess that definition keeps you in the clear also.

I hope someday you face up to reality

They may very well have been sectarian downcow, if they expressed irrational hate for another religion.

If showing historical events to people is 'sectarian' then there are a lot of sectarians about.

If there is another definition of 'sectarian' please tell us how it applies in this case,

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They may very well have been sectarian downcow, if they expressed irrational hate for another religion.

If showing historical events to people is 'sectarian' then there are a lot of sectarians about.

If there is another definition of 'sectarian' please tell us how it applies in this case,

You are getting a bit like the DUP and SF. You do complete uturns without even blinking or being the slightest embarrassed.
I am happy that you have now redefined what sectarianism is (I would extend your definition of ‘expressing hate’ also to ‘negatively discriminating’ and/or ‘excluding’ based on one belonging to a sect, religious grouping, party, etc.

Now apply that to what Roi team got up to that offended people in the room. Nothing new to James mcleans balaclava stunt, the CEO singing rebel songs, or the 90s team playing songs in team coach about killing policemen.
You should at least recognise that your team has got form in this area (and I don’t blame most of the players or lower management)

You should drop the idea of a UI until you can get your international teams and personalities, whether football, boxing, rugby, etc to understand that there are more perspectives and identities than ONE resident on this island, and act with some understanding and dignity.

If I am really honest I secretly enjoy these mask-slipping events, as it puts any possibility of moderate unionists accepting a UI much further away.
Keep up the good work

I don’t think even our incompetent ifa would appoint someone who has publicly supported a sectarian terrorist, as manager of our senior international team. But as I say, keep up the good work, we need something to counterbalace the damage the dinosaurs of the DUP do to the union most times they speak.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You are getting a bit like the DUP and SF. You do complete uturns without even blinking or being the slightest embarrassed.
I am happy that you have now redefined what sectarianism is (I would extend your definition of ‘expressing hate’ also to ‘negatively discriminating’ and/or ‘excluding’ based on one belonging to a sect, religious grouping, party, etc.

Now apply that to what Roi team got up to that offended people in the room. Nothing new to James mcleans balaclava stunt, the CEO singing rebel songs, or the 90s team playing songs in team coach about killing policemen.
You should at least recognise that your team has got form in this area (and I don’t blame most of the players or lower management)

You should drop the idea of a UI until you can get your international teams and personalities, whether football, boxing, rugby, etc to understand that there are more perspectives and identities than ONE resident on this island, and act with some understanding and dignity.

If I am really honest I secretly enjoy these mask-slipping events, as it puts any possibility of moderate unionists accepting a UI much further away.
Keep up the good work

I don’t think even our incompetent ifa would appoint someone who has publicly supported a sectarian terrorist, as manager of our senior international team. But as I say, keep up the good work, we need something to counterbalace the damage the dinosaurs of the DUP do to the union most times they speak.

The people 'in the room' could be wrong to get upset.

When the FA force the spectator to watch all the poppy stuff arevthey being sectarian...no they aren't. Showing your history is not sectarian downcow, nowhere near the definition.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Here we go. Some of you wanted to deny that the ROI football team played songs in their team bus on the way to games, about killing policemen. I think we got to a point where you accepted that despicable behaviour was happening.

Well here we are - seems it is alive and well in the ROI football team of 2020 - absolutely disgraceful - can you just imagine if this happened within the Northern Ireland team?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/fai-launch-investigation-into-political-video-message-shown-to-ireland-players-ahead-of-england-clash-39767596.html

So, I'm sure you've kept up to date with the story after you got your knickers in a twist last night.

Here's RTÉ's up-to-date reportage:

RT&#201 wrote:

RTÉ Sport understands that two-and-a-half minutes of the video was famous goals scored against England, from Ray Houghton, Kevin Sheedy, Niall Quinn, Tony Cascarino and Shane Long, followed by 30 seconds of "historical context" of the relationship between Ireland and England.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/1119/1179281-fai-to-investigate-pre-match-political-video/

Fancy climbing down from your "woe-is-me" plinth?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So, I'm sure you've kept up to date with the story after you got your knickers in a twist last night.

Here's RTÉ's up-to-date reportage:



https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/1119/1179281-fai-to-investigate-pre-match-political-video/

Fancy climbing down from your "woe-is-me" plinth?

Not just ready to climb down yet. If the video is innocent then obviously their pr people will tell them to release it to put all our minds at ease. What possible reason could they have for withholding it so long already.?
Would you agree?

“ 30 seconds of "historical context" of the relationship between Ireland and England.” could mean anything. You would agree England could have shown a 30 second video to include the Birmingham pub bombings and called it “ 30 seconds of "historical context" of the relationship between Ireland and England“. .....and I guess you wouldn’t think that would be appropriate- or maybe you would.
....so no climb down until we have seen the video and can measure its intentions.

Remember this was in a friendly game against your feeder club and neighbour.

BonnieSituation

"...But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe..."

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Not just ready to climb down yet. If the video is innocent then obviously their pr people will tell them to release it to put all our minds at ease. What possible reason could they have for withholding it so long already.?
Would you agree?

“ 30 seconds of "historical context" of the relationship between Ireland and England.” could mean anything. You would agree England could have shown a 30 second video to include the Birmingham pub bombings and called it “ 30 seconds of "historical context" of the relationship between Ireland and England“. .....and I guess you wouldn’t think that would be appropriate- or maybe you would.
....so no climb down until we have seen the video and can measure its intentions.

Remember this was in a friendly game against your feeder club and neighbour.

I can point you to videos of the historical content if that is what you wish to see downcow?
Ireland won it's independence from Britain one 100 years ago. Didn't you know?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can point you to videos of the historical content if that is what you wish to see downcow?
Ireland won it's independence from Britain one 100 years ago. Didn't you know?

It’s not your videos I want to see. I’d be interested in seeing the 30 video that was shown to the Roi team before the recent game which seems to have offended a number of people.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It’s not your videos I want to see. I’d be interested in seeing the 30 video that was shown to the Roi team before the recent game which seems to have offended a number of people.

One person complained apparently.

They aren't 'my' videos. They are historical footage of the evolution of the country they were playing for, the same country I am citizen off.

You should watch them...the good guys win.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

One person complained apparently.

They aren't 'my' videos. They are historical footage of the evolution of the country they were playing for, the same country I am citizen off.

You should watch them...the good guys win.

I am not going around in endless circles on this. If the video was innocent then FIA will share it. Fairly simple

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am not going around in endless circles on this. If the video was innocent then FIA will share it. Fairly simple

Well they had to ask Kenny in to account for it or tell them what was in it. So it may not exist anymore.

The clips will be on youtube though, I doubt Kenny found new footage.

Scoondal

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well they had to ask Kenny in to account for it or tell them what was in it. So it may not exist anymore.

The clips will be on youtube though, I doubt Kenny found new footage.

I agree, Northern Ireland is a failure after 99 years existing. Well said.

FrancieBrady

Scoondal wrote: »

I agree, Northern Ireland is a failure after 99 years existing. Well said.

I get your point...way off topic. Maybe open a thread on it downcow.

timthumbni

So the Republic of Ireland boss shows a clip with 30 seconds of “historical” context at the end to wind up the warriors going onto the battlefield. Oh wait It was a meaningless friendly ffs.

The Irish seem to be overly obsessed with the English. It was a silly game of football lads. The guys playing on the big money probably don’t know what day of the week it is anyway. Obviously the republic lad realised they wouldn’t have been top of the class at school so needed a crash course in 30 seconds of Anglo Irish relations through the centuries.

Pretty embarrassing for the republic but whatever.

Beltby

timthumbni wrote: »

So the Republic of Ireland boss shows a clip with 30 seconds of “historical” context at the end to wind up the warriors going onto the battlefield. Oh wait It was a meaningless friendly ffs.

The Irish seem to be overly obsessed with the English. It was a silly game of football lads. The guys playing on the big money probably don’t know what day of the week it is anyway. Obviously the republic lad realised they wouldn’t have been top of the class at school so needed a crash course in 30 seconds of Anglo Irish relations through the centuries.

Pretty embarrassing for the republic but whatever.

Whatever. Exactly. It's a non issue.

timthumbni

Beltby wrote: »

Whatever. Exactly. It's a non issue.

I didn’t say it was a non issue. If NI or England had done some stunt like that it would have been considered a major incident nowadays.

It shows that a segment of the Irish are completely obsessed with the English.

In the grand scheme of things nowadays it’s petty I suppose (on their part) but hardly encouraging for those advocates of an “all ireland team”

Would those of a unionist outlook be forced on any such team be forced to sit at the back of the bus?

jm08

timthumbni wrote: »

I didn’t say it was a non issue. If NI or England had done some stunt like that it would have been considered a major incident nowadays.

It shows that a segment of the Irish are completely obsessed with the English.

In the grand scheme of things nowadays it’s petty I suppose (on their part) but hardly encouraging for those advocates of an “all ireland team”

Would those of a unionist outlook be forced on any such team be forced to sit at the back of the bus?

Why are you getting offended on behalf of English people?


just so you know, this is the 100th Anniversary of the Irish War of Independence and there are quite a lot of documentaries being aired about that period of Irish history. That's our. History and just as important to Irish people as the Battle of the Boyne is important to NI Unionists.

timthumbni

jm08 wrote: »

Why are you getting offended on behalf of English people?


just so you know, this is the 100th Anniversary of the Irish War of Independence and there are quite a lot of documentaries being aired about that period of Irish history. That's our. History and just as important to Irish people as the Battle of the Boyne is important to NI Unionists.

Nay worries. I look forward to the English showing a 30 second historical clip of Warrington (where the Ira murdered 2 weans) and perhaps Birmingham where the Ira murdered many people out for a drink).

Sure it’s all historical after all. .... hmmmm..

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

Nay worries. I look forward to the English showing a 30 second historical clip of Warrington (where the Ira murdered 2 weans) and perhaps Birmingham where the Ira murdered many people out for a drink).

Sure it’s all historical after all. .... hmmmm..

Would you give over with the holier than thou nonsense. Downcow was in here before they got turfed out of the Euro's positively gloating at the prospect of getting one up on Ireland.
And do you think people are blind and can't see what happens when England play Germany?

God lord, do you think people are idiots?

Five Eighth

timthumbni wrote: »

I didn’t say it was a non issue. If NI or England had done some stunt like that it would have been considered a major incident nowadays.

It shows that a segment of the Irish are completely obsessed with the English.

In the grand scheme of things nowadays it’s petty I suppose (on their part) but hardly encouraging for those advocates of an “all ireland team”

Would those of a unionist outlook be forced on any such team be forced to sit at the back of the bus?

Firstly, I must emphasise that the points I’m making are more sociological than sporting. Otherwise, this particular debate should move to the soccer forum.
I don’t agree that what happened supports your contention that ‘…a segment of the Irish are completely obsessed by the English.”
I’m sure that you will find a small few Irish people ‘obsessed’ with the England. The same that you will find some Scots and Welsh also ‘obsessed’ with that country.
England is a country of over 55 million people. The other parts of the UK plus the ROI together total a population of around 15 million. England alone dwarfs the others in population size and density. Therefore, any time one of these countries play England in soccer or rugby, England is invariably referred to as ‘the old enemy’ in the sporting press.
Some context is required. In this case, England hadn’t beaten Ireland since 1985 and, Kenny under pressure anyway because of a poor run of results, resorted to ‘pumping up’ the squad for the match. Obviously, someone took offence to what was shown in the video. I don’t see any problem if the video depicted England as a fierce rival and (a sporting) ‘old enemy’. If Kenny did show England as a political ‘oppressor’ then it was a wrong.
I believe that most Irish people have moved well away from viewing England as ‘nefarious Albion’ (although they don’t help themselves with their carry-on in the Brexit negotiations). Irish people in the 21st century have, I believe, shook off any inferiority complex they may once have had, are generally outward looking and don’t give England, as a country, a second thought.
Finally, do you know for sure what content is in the video?