Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

timthumbni

Five Eighth wrote: »

Firstly, I must emphasise that the points I’m making are more sociological than sporting. Otherwise, this particular debate should move to the soccer forum.
I don’t agree that what happened supports your contention that ‘…a segment of the Irish are completely obsessed by the English.”
I’m sure that you will find a small few Irish people ‘obsessed’ with the England. The same that you will find some Scots and Welsh also ‘obsessed’ with that country.
England is a country of over 55 million people. The other parts of the UK plus the ROI together total a population of around 15 million. England alone dwarfs the others in population size and density. Therefore, any time one of these countries play England in soccer or rugby, England is invariably referred to as ‘the old enemy’ in the sporting press.
Some context is required. In this case, England hadn’t beaten Ireland since 1985 and, Kenny under pressure anyway because of a poor run of results, resorted to ‘pumping up’ the squad for the match. Obviously, someone took offence to what was shown in the video. I don’t see any problem if the video depicted England as a fierce rival and (a sporting) ‘old enemy’. If Kenny did show England as a political ‘oppressor’ then it was a wrong.
I believe that most Irish people have moved well away from viewing England as ‘nefarious Albion’ (although they don’t help themselves with their carry-on in the Brexit negotiations). Irish people in the 21st century have, I believe, shook off any inferiority complex they may once have had, are generally outward looking and don’t give England, as a country, a second thought.
Finally, do you know for sure what content is in the video?

Your choice of text and borders has certainly scared me.

Edit. I don’t know what’s in it but I’m damn sure it’s some embarrassing ****. Would you not agree?

Five Eighth

timthumbni wrote: »

Your choice of text and borders has certainly scared me.

Edit. I don’t know what’s in it but I’m damn sure it’s some embarrassing ****. Would you not agree?

Please elaborate.

Scoondal

Five Eighth wrote: »

Firstly, I must emphasise that the points I’m making are more sociological than sporting. Otherwise, this particular debate should move to the soccer forum.
I don’t agree that what happened supports your contention that ‘…a segment of the Irish are completely obsessed by the English.”
I’m sure that you will find a small few Irish people ‘obsessed’ with the England. The same that you will find some Scots and Welsh also ‘obsessed’ with that country.
England is a country of over 55 million people. The other parts of the UK plus the ROI together total a population of around 15 million. England alone dwarfs the others in population size and density. Therefore, any time one of these countries play England in soccer or rugby, England is invariably referred to as ‘the old enemy’ in the sporting press.
Some context is required. In this case, England hadn’t beaten Ireland since 1985 and, Kenny under pressure anyway because of a poor run of results, resorted to ‘pumping up’ the squad for the match. Obviously, someone took offence to what was shown in the video. I don’t see any problem if the video depicted England as a fierce rival and (a sporting) ‘old enemy’. If Kenny did show England as a political ‘oppressor’ then it was a wrong.
I believe that most Irish people have moved well away from viewing England as ‘nefarious Albion’ (although they don’t help themselves with their carry-on in the Brexit negotiations). Irish people in the 21st century have, I believe, shook off any inferiority complex they may once have had, are generally outward looking and don’t give England, as a country, a second thought.
Finally, do you know for sure what content is in the video?

Your points are debatable to say the least.

Five Eighth

Scoondal wrote: »

Your points are debatable to say the least.

Please elaborate.

timthumbni

Five Eighth wrote: »

Please elaborate.

“Historical 30 seconds” ....... hmmm .. I can’t imagine what that would be.

Just admit that he is a bigot. Bad move when some of your players are actually English. Doh.....

Scoondal

Five Eighth wrote: »

Please elaborate.

This thread is about the failure of Northern Ireland, after 99 years of existence.

Scoondal

Five Eighth wrote: »

Please elaborate.

Do you really want me to elaborate further on your ignorance of the thread on which you are posting your irrelevant comments.

Five Eighth

timthumbni wrote: »

“Historical 30 seconds” ....... hmmm .. I can’t imagine what that would be.

Just admit that he is a bigot. Bad move when some of your players are actually English. Doh.....

You stated "Your choice of text and borders has certainly scared me."

You didn't support that statement with your reply.

You then admitted you don't know what is in the video.

How can anyone accuse anyone else of being a bigot without the facts?

Five Eighth

Scoondal wrote: »

Do you really want me to elaborate further on your ignorance of the thread on which you are posting your irrelevant comments.

Yes.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I get your point...way off topic. Maybe open a thread on it downcow.

From the guy who spent a few pages discussing the spelling of a village

But I take the point. I thought we were on the United ireland thread which this is very relevant to.

downcow

Scoondal wrote: »

This thread is about the failure of Northern Ireland, after 99 years of existence.

It’s not completely irrelevant. It helps to let us see the prejudiced and anti-british views we have had to contend with on this island and ni has survived despite them. Quite a mark of success.
Remember the person that organised this video has attended events in Northern Ireland in support of a republican leader who’s main purpose in life was to ensure ni was a failure. Clearly it was both that terrorist and the Roi manager who failed in their objective and ni is still here.

Scoondal

downcow wrote: »

It’s not completely irrelevant. It helps to let us see the prejudiced and anti-british views we have had to contend with on this island and ni has survived despite them. Quite a mark of success.
Remember the person that organised this video has attended events in Northern Ireland in support of a republican leader who’s main purpose in life was to ensure ni was a failure. Clearly it was both that terrorist and the Roi manager who failed in their objective and ni is still here.

No, not at all. The Northern Ireland state of the UK, is perhaps a failure of the UK government.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It’s not completely irrelevant. It helps to let us see the prejudiced and anti-british views we have had to contend with on this island and ni has survived despite them. Quite a mark of success.
Remember the person that organised this video has attended events in Northern Ireland in support of a republican leader who’s main purpose in life was to ensure ni was a failure. Clearly it was both that terrorist and the Roi manager who failed in their objective and ni is still here.

It isn't 'anti-British', we like to beat the British in sport. Would you say the British are anti-German or Australian because they like to beat them in sports?

Time to grow up a bit downcow. It is nothing like hating people becuase of their religion.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It isn't 'anti-British', we like to beat the British in sport. Would you say the British are anti-German or Australian because they like to beat them in sports?

Time to grow up a bit downcow. It is nothing like hating people becuase of their religion.

You are being pedantic again. I am not suggesting it is religious, although it is historically partly rooted in religion.
Germany and Australia and England rivalries are very different. They operate at the same level in the sports they are rivals in eg Germany football, Australia cricket. And each regards the other as a rival.
Roi is in a very different place with football. They are a minnow and England would not at all regard them as rivals. It’s a one way thing based on history. Hence the video of course. So we’ve done full circle

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You are being pedantic again. I am not suggesting it is religious, although it is historically partly rooted in religion.
Germany and Australia and England rivalries are very different. They operate at the same level in the sports they are rivals in eg Germany football, Australia cricket. And each regards the other as a rival.
Roi is in a very different place with football. They are a minnow and England would not at all regard them as rivals. It’s a one way thing based on history. Hence the video of course. So we’ve done full circle

:D

England and Germany are in the same league? Are you joking? England thinks it is, that is why the 40 yrs I have watched them fail has been so enjoyable.

Stop with the nonsense...we like beating England in any sport, so also do England like to beat Germany BASED on past 'relationships'.

No hate, they can all shake hands with one another after, like I can after Cavan beat us or vice versa.

Sectarianism is a different thing altogether.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

From the guy who spent a few pages discussing the spelling of a village

But I take the point. I thought we were on the United ireland thread which this is very relevant to.

Nothing to say about that no? I mean, I thought you'd be interested in the culture of Ulster and how the language is used in placenames.

You had an awful lot to say about some signs in the native language in Co Down though.

It's almost like you pick and choose your offence.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D

England and Germany are in the same league? Are you joking? England thinks it is, that is why the 40 yrs I have watched them fail has been so enjoyable.

Stop with the nonsense...we like beating England in any sport, so also do England like to beat Germany BASED on past 'relationships'.

No hate, they can all shake hands with one another after, like I can after Cavan beat us or vice versa.

Sectarianism is a different thing altogether.

I think he thinks he's a wee bit English again. He got awful excited there didn't he.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Nothing to say about that no? I mean, I thought you'd be interested in the culture of Ulster and how the language is used in placenames.

You had an awful lot to say about some signs in the native language in Co Down though.

It's almost like you pick and choose your offence.

I was not in the slightest offended. I was simply calling Francie out for challenging me for going off topic when he had spent several pages off topic. Nothing more nothing less

Junkyard Tom

jm08 wrote: »

Why are you getting offended on behalf of English people?

Sure the English consider Unionists a weird sort of Paddy, God love them. It'll be interesting to see if the DUP/NI gets the blame for Britain crashing out of the EU without a deal if that comes to pass.

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D

England and Germany are in the same league? Are you joking? England thinks it is, that is why the 40 yrs I have watched them fail has been so enjoyable.

Stop with the nonsense...we like beating England in any sport, so also do England like to beat Germany BASED on past 'relationships'.

No hate, they can all shake hands with one another after, like I can after Cavan beat us or vice versa.

Sectarianism is a different thing altogether.

Based on GDP the UK is in the same league as Germany and the rest. Which is gerat for Rep of Ireland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

With Ireland and UK/England so close and dependent on each other no idea why anyone would watch hoping to see them fail for 40 years. If they fail then Rep of Ireland fails as well.

timthumbni

[QUOTE=FrancieBrady;115365032

God lord, do you think people are idiots?[/QUOTE]

The issue here is that a current manager of the republic thought it was a good idea to put some “historical “ context into his players before playing England in a friendly. Fans always act like morons. This is your manger ffs and is expected to have some decorum.

Similar to what one of your ex presidents mused, I sometimes wonder are Irish people brought up to hate? (In this case the English, but to expand then perhaps Northern Irish Protestants, non catholics, Jews etc??

Certainly the Irish are obsessed with the English. It’s really a one way street because they certainly are not obsessed with you.

I say again if a NI manager had pulled that sort of stunt his head would be on the block. (And rightly so)

In saying that hardly surprising. Whenever the leader of one of your main political parties walks behind a banner saying “Da England, get out of da Ireland” then what can you expect..

timthumbni

downcow wrote: »

You do know I assume that your new manager has publicly supported one of the most sectarian and cruel terrorists in Northern Irelands history. It’s a matter of record. Let me know if you need the link.

Out of interest, what are you referring to here?

Solutionking

timthumbni wrote: »

The issue here is that a current manager of the republic thought it was a good idea to put some “historical “ context into his players before playing England in a friendly. Fans always act like morons. This is your manger ffs and is expected to have some decorum.

Similar to what one of your ex presidents mused, I sometimes wonder are Irish people brought up to hate? (In this case the English, but to expand then perhaps Northern Irish Protestants, non catholics, Jews etc??

Certainly the Irish are obsessed with the English. It’s really a one way street because they certainly are not obsessed with you.

I say again if a NI manager had pulled that sort of stunt his head would be on the block. (And rightly so)

In saying that hardly surprising. Whenever the leader of one of your main political parties walks behind a banner saying “Da England, get out of da Ireland” then what can you expect..

Not all Irish. Do not tar everyone with the same brush as the few people
Also please do not think SF do not speak for the people of Ireland, walking behind that banner just shows what a group of undesirables are in SF. But they do have a following same as some dodgy parties in every country.

Lucy8080

On the football issue. Bobby Robson ( loved in England and Ireland ,north and south) let's just say he mentioned the war before the England v west Germany semi - final in 1990. His attempt at motivation. Even the Germans would not hold it against him(they hold him in high regard too).

Does anyone actually know what was in this supposed video? I'm slightly embarrassed that (if it exists) it was used to motivate in a friendly.

I'm envious of England having gifts like Grealish and Rice from Irish stock. Oh well.

Anyhow's , The great Bobby Robson (rip) had a bit of a Basil Fawlty moment. The great Billy Bingham (N.I) had a bad few moments in 1993.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

Based on GDP the UK is in the same league as Germany and the rest. Which is gerat for Rep of Ireland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

With Ireland and UK/England so close and dependent on each other no idea why anyone would watch hoping to see them fail for 40 years. If they fail then Rep of Ireland fails as well.

In football SK. England is not in the same league success wise. Germany Brazil maybe in the same league, England are not up there except in their own heads.

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

The issue here is that a current manager of the republic thought it was a good idea to put some “historical “ context into his players before playing England in a friendly. Fans always act like morons. This is your manger ffs and is expected to have some decorum.

Similar to what one of your ex presidents mused, I sometimes wonder are Irish people brought up to hate? (In this case the English, but to expand then perhaps Northern Irish Protestants, non catholics, Jews etc??

Certainly the Irish are obsessed with the English. It’s really a one way street because they certainly are not obsessed with you.

I say again if a NI manager had pulled that sort of stunt his head would be on the block. (And rightly so)

In saying that hardly surprising. Whenever the leader of one of your main political parties walks behind a banner saying “Da England, get out of da Ireland” then what can you expect..

What is your issue though? Should we sanitise the history?...did that history not happen?
Should we be ashamed of that history?
Please make a point.

Five Eighth

timthumbni wrote: »

The issue here is that a current manager of the republic thought it was a good idea to put some “historical “ context into his players before playing England in a friendly. Fans always act like morons. This is your manger ffs and is expected to have some decorum.

Similar to what one of your ex presidents mused, I sometimes wonder are Irish people brought up to hate? (In this case the English, but to expand then perhaps Northern Irish Protestants, non catholics, Jews etc??

Certainly the Irish are obsessed with the English. It’s really a one way street because they certainly are not obsessed with you.

I say again if a NI manager had pulled that sort of stunt his head would be on the block. (And rightly so)

In saying that hardly surprising. Whenever the leader of one of your main political parties walks behind a banner saying “Da England, get out of da Ireland” then what can you expect..

As you are prepared to allege on a public forum that an entire race of people i.e. the Irish are '...brought up in hate' and hate the English, Northern Irish Protestants, non-Catholics and Jews. Please support this allegation with your sourced facts.

Also, please clarify who you mean when you insert 'etc.' in your post.

downcow

timthumbni wrote: »

Out of interest, what are you referring to here?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/mcguinness-gets-rousing-send-off-in-derry-s-bogside-1.612650

I wonder did he produce that video as well lol

downcow

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Anyhow's , The great Bobby Robson (rip) had a bit of a Basil Fawlty moment. The great Billy Bingham (N.I) had a bad few moments in 1993.

I don’t know what you are implying by saying billy b had a bad few moments. He is a gentleman and a real NI hero. If you are implying he done something wrong then please be specific so as I can at least challenge it.
This demonstrates the difficulty with the thread question. What is success for one may be perceived as failure by another. Billy b like NI is/was a big success

Fionn1952

This is bloody embarrassing all round, lads. Seriously playground sh*te.