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Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

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    #2162
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    timthumbni wrote: »
    No links as I’m on an iPad and they are rubbish for that. Google Mary Mcaleese Protestants brought up to hate. Then fill your boots. Ta. You can maybe message her and ask her for her sources whilst you are at it.

    Also refer to post 2150. Thanks.

    I attended an event some years ago where (soon to become dissident) republicans were spouting their hate. The figurehead was mary mcaleese father. One classic statement from his colleagues was “the army should not have been sent in in 69. Psycaitrists should have been sent in to help the Protestants realise that they were not british”
    So Mary might need to reconsider who was reared to hate


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    #2163
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    trashcan wrote: »
    Bull****. If you have indeed seen endless reports then I refuse to believe that you had never seen the earlier deaths referred to. It’s included in every single history of the day that I’ve ever seen, and also was included in what I learned at school. Witness the RTE documentary of just last Monday as the latest example.

    Well I just googled to have a quick look what the gaa report and here it is. I guess a retraction to your bull**** will be forthcoming
    https://www.gaa.ie/news/croke-park-bloody-sunday-victims-remembered/


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    #2164
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    downcow wrote: »
    I attended an event some years ago where (soon to become dissident) republicans were spouting their hate. The figurehead was mary mcaleese father. One classic statement from his colleagues was “the army should not have been sent in in 69. Psycaitrists should have been sent in to help the Protestants realise that they were not british”
    So Mary might need to reconsider who was reared to hate

    Yes, I always felt she got off very lightly for that statement considering she was a president of the republic of I.

    That story about her pater I have not heard but it would come as no surprise at all to me.


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    #2165
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    trashcan wrote: »
    Bull****. If you have indeed seen endless reports then I refuse to believe that you had never seen the earlier deaths referred to. It’s included in every single history of the day that I’ve ever seen, and also was included in what I learned at school. Witness the RTE documentary of just last Monday as the latest example.

    Well I just googled to have a quick look what the gaa report and here it is. I guess a retraction to your bull**** will be forthcoming
    https://www.gaa.ie/news/croke-park-bloody-sunday-victims-remembered/


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    #2166
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Well I just googled to have a quick look what the gaa report and here it is. I guess a retraction to your bull**** will be forthcoming
    https://www.gaa.ie/news/croke-park-bloody-sunday-victims-remembered/

    That's about the specific event. A commemoration of what happened in Croke Park.
    Look up the difference between an event advertisement and a 'history'.


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    #2167
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    timthumbni wrote: »
    No links as I’m on an iPad and they are rubbish for that. Google Mary Mcaleese Protestants brought up to hate. Then fill your boots. Ta. You can maybe message her and ask her for her sources whilst you are at it.

    Also refer to post 2150. Thanks.

    This is the kind of siege mentality myopia that has people on here claiming innocence when the whole world seen and heard what happened at a fottball match in 1993. The accounts of which are all out there on 'google'.

    What is NOT on google is Mary McAleese saying 'protestants were brought up to hate'...here is what she said, which is perfectly reasonable thing to say:
    President McAleese assessment came during ceremonies to mark the 60th anniversary of the Auschwitz concentration camp liberation.

    Anti-Semitism that existed for decades had been built upon by the Nazis, she said.

    “They gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children an outrageous and irrational hatred of those who are of different colour and all of those things.”


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    #2168
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Five Eighth wrote: »
    I'm refuting that the Irish/a large percentage of the Irish are reared to hate Jews, non-Catholics, English, Northern Irish, British, etc.

    This is what you have alleged. Of course, there are some people in every country who hate. Your assertion is unfounded and unsupported.

    Have you had a chance to google Mary’s allegation yet? If so, any comments on that?

    Regarding unfounded and unsupported one of your fellow countryman (I assume anyway) has just posted quite casually in this thread that “everyone hates the English”. You can maybe see why I have my opinion in a way.

    At least that other poster admitted it.


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    #2169
    Five Eighth
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭Five Eighth


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Have you had a chance to google Mary’s allegation yet? If so, any comments on that?

    Regarding unfounded and unsupported one of your fellow countryman (I assume anyway) has just posted quite casually in this thread that “everyone hates the English”. You can maybe see why I have my opinion in a way.

    At least that other poster admitted it.
    This is what the Irish Examiner reported on 27/01/2005:

    Mrs McAleese, a working-class Catholic once burnt out of her home in the west of the city by loyalists, made the following remark:
    “They gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children an outrageous and irrational hatred of those who are of different colour and all of those things.”

    People in Northern Ireland is not the same as ALL Northern Irish unionists rear their children to hate Catholics. That's a long way from your assertion that the Irish/large percentage of Irish are reared to hate Jews, non-Catholics, English, Northern Irish, British, etc.


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    #2170
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    This is the kind of siege mentality myopia that has people on here claiming innocence when the whole world seen and heard what happened at a fottball match in 1993. The accounts of which are all out there on 'google'.

    What is NOT on google is Mary McAleese saying 'protestants were brought up to hate'...here is what she said, which is perfectly reasonable thing to say:

    I said that was the words the poster needed to google if they wanted to read your ex presidents ramblings.

    I’m well aware of what she said and I’m sure your fellow poster will be wanting to know her sources and proof of such a statement. Remember I’m posting on a message board read by about 15 people. I’m not the president of the republic of I. Equating NI Protestants to the Nazi Germans and Jews is disgusting but hardly surprising from someone like Mary.


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    #2171
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Five Eighth wrote: »
    This is what the Irish Examiner reported on 27/01/2005:

    Mrs McAleese, a working-class Catholic once burnt out of her home in the west of the city by loyalists, made the following remark:
    “They gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children an outrageous and irrational hatred of those who are of different colour and all of those things.”

    People in Northern Ireland is not the same as ALL Northern Irish unionists rear their children to hate Catholics. That's a long way from your assertion that the Irish/large percentage of Irish are reared to hate Jews, non-Catholics, English, Northern Irish, British, etc.

    Sorry, from now on I will change my posts from saying “Irish” to “people in The Republic of Ireland” as it really makes a big difference. Are you for real? You would be on her side of the fence. I accept that. Just don’t play on semantics.

    And you did see my post that said this doesn’t apply to all Irish people and my made up, especially at your request, percentage.


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    #2172
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    timthumbni wrote: »
    I said that was the words the poster needed to google if they wanted to read your ex presidents ramblings.

    I’m well aware of what she said and I’m sure your fellow poster will be wanting to know her sources and proof of such a statement. Remember I’m posting on a message board read by about 15 people. I’m not the president of the republic of I. Equating NI Protestants to the Nazi Germans and Jews is disgusting but hardly surprising from someone like Mary.

    She didn't...she said 'people bring their children up....'

    Sometime you get the chance wonder why kids are burning effies of dead Catholics and display KAT signs on 'celebratory' fires instead of making stuff up to be offended about.


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    #2173
    Five Eighth
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭Five Eighth


    timthumbni wrote: »
    I said that was the words the poster needed to google if they wanted to read your ex presidents ramblings.

    I’m well aware of what she said and I’m sure your fellow poster will be wanting to know her sources and proof of such a statement. Remember I’m posting on a message board read by about 15 people. I’m not the president of the republic of I. Equating NI Protestants to the Nazi Germans and Jews is disgusting but hardly surprising from someone like Mary.
    I imagine that Mary McAleese is speaking from her own experience after being burnt out of her house by Loyalists. She asserts that there are people in Northern Ireland who transmit to their children an irrational hatred of Catholics. Why else would these people burn her out of her house?

    She did not allege that all the Northern Irish Protestant people transmit to their children irrational hatred of Catholics...or anyone else for that matter.


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    #2174
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Five Eighth wrote: »
    This is what the Irish Examiner reported on 27/01/2005:

    Mrs McAleese, a working-class Catholic once burnt out of her home in the west of the city by loyalists, made the following remark:
    “They gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children an outrageous and irrational hatred of those who are of different colour and all of those things.”

    People in Northern Ireland is not the same as ALL Northern Irish unionists rear their children to hate Catholics. That's a long way from your assertion that the Irish/large percentage of Irish are reared to hate Jews, non-Catholics, English, Northern Irish, British, etc.

    I am difficult to depress, but reading you and Francie defend mary mcaleeses extremely sectarian hate speech is highly depressing.
    I absolutely know that Protestant families were living in fear of being butchered by Martin m and his friends, and no doubt the kids living in the houses picked up that fear. But to single out Protestants as rearing their children to hate the Catholics and not mention what was happing in her ardoyne neighbourhood is just really sad.
    The women was clearly a sectarian bigot who was not very self-aware. She clearly had about as much self awareness as Donal trump


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    #2175
    Five Eighth
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭Five Eighth


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Sorry, from now on I will change my posts from saying “Irish” to “people in The Republic of Ireland” as it really makes a big difference. Are you for real? You would be on her side of the fence. I accept that. Just don’t play on semantics.

    And you did see my post that said this doesn’t apply to all Irish people and my made up, especially at your request, percentage.
    Sorry, don't understand the point you are attempting to articulate. Could you rephrase same please.


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    #2176
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    She didn't...she said 'people bring their children up....'

    Sometime you get the chance wonder why kids are burning effies of dead Catholics and display KAT signs on 'celebratory' fires instead of making stuff up to be offended about.

    Plenty of KAH (Kill all huns/Protestants) graffiti all over Belfast city centre. Bit different from street urchins spraying nonsense to people making inflammatory ramblings when they are president of the republic. (And then your footie manager going all Wolfe tones on his players)


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    #2177
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    I am difficult to depress, but reading you and Francie defend mary mcaleeses extremely sectarian hate speech is highly depressing.
    I absolutely know that Protestant families were living in fear of being butchered by Martin m and his friends, and no doubt the kids living in the houses picked up that fear. But to single out Protestants as rearing their children to hate the Catholics and not mention what was happing in her ardoyne neighbourhood is just really sad.
    The women was clearly a sectarian bigot who was not very self-aware. She clearly had about as much self awareness as Donal trump

    Are you gonna pretend now that people don't influence their children?

    Maybe you will explain exactly what age they feel motivated to have bonfires with KAT signs on them?

    Is there schools that teach this stuff if it isn't coming from parents?

    Time to own it downcow. Then you might get around to doing something about it.


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    #2178
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Five Eighth wrote: »
    Sorry, don't understand the point you are attempting to articulate. Could you rephrase same please.

    Sorry, I can only go to so much effort to simplify. If you don’t understand then we will have to leave it.


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    #2179
    Five Eighth
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭Five Eighth


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Sorry, I can only go to so much effort to simplify. If you don’t understand then we will have to leave it.
    My understanding of your position is that your defence when asserting that the Irish/large percentage of the Irish are reared to hate Jews, non-Catholics, English, Northern Irish, British, etc. is that Mary McAlesse said something similar (in your opinion) about Northern Irish unionists in 2005. Is that correct?


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    #2180
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    downcow wrote: »
    I am difficult to depress, but reading you and Francie defend mary mcaleeses extremely sectarian hate speech is highly depressing.
    I absolutely know that Protestant families were living in fear of being butchered by Martin m and his friends, and no doubt the kids living in the houses picked up that fear. But to single out Protestants as rearing their children to hate the Catholics and not mention what was happing in her ardoyne neighbourhood is just really sad.
    The women was clearly a sectarian bigot who was not very self-aware. She clearly had about as much self awareness as Donal trump

    The fact she compared NI Protestants to German Nazis and their hatred of Jews was probably the worst part. Especially considering that many NI unionists fought the nazis whilst certain groups of Irish republicans were showing their arse and flirting with the Nazis. Shocking behaviour from a republic president.


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    #2181
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Five Eighth wrote: »
    My understanding of your position is that your defence when asserting that the Irish/large percentage of the Irish are reared to hate Jews, non-Catholics, English, Northern Irish, British, etc. is that Mary McAlesse said something similar (in your opinion) about Northern Irish unionists in 2005. Is that correct?
    Five eight. What planet are you living on? Let’s do a little survey here and now on this huge forum.

    Can anyone out there, who describes themselves as an Irish nationalist, and who is warm to England winning, whether football, rugby or even wars, please declare yourself??

    Get ready for the rush Five eight. If you are correct we will be inundated with responses on such a big forum


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    #2182
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    timthumbni wrote: »
    The fact she compared NI Protestants to German Nazis and their hatred of Jews was probably the worst part. Especially considering that many NI unionists fought the nazis whilst certain groups of Irish republicans were showing their arse and flirting with the Nazis. Shocking behaviour from a republic president.

    She never mentioned 'protestant's. Stop, you are embarrassing yourself.


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    #2183
    Five Eighth
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭Five Eighth


    downcow wrote: »
    Five eight. What planet are you living on? Let’s do a little survey here and now on this huge forum.

    Can anyone out there, who describes themselves as an Irish nationalist, and who is warm to England winning, whether football, rugby or even wars, please declare yourself??

    Get ready for the rush Five eight. If you are correct we will be inundated with responses on such a big forum
    You did not address the question.

    Also, you included Jews, non-Catholics (Muslims? Hindus? Seiks? etc.) British (Scots, Welsh) as well as English and Northern Irish in your hate assertion. Do you still hold to that position?

    Finally, many of us Irish have family in England who identify as English, we certainly don't hate them because they are English.


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    #2184
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Five Eighth wrote: »
    My understanding of your position is that your defence when asserting that the Irish/large percentage of the Irish are reared to hate Jews, non-Catholics, English, Northern Irish, British, etc. is that Mary McAlesse said something similar (in your opinion) about Northern Irish unionists in 2005. Is that correct?

    Nope. I have already said this is my opinion. Your harping on about sources and the word etc simply made me refer to one of your ex presidents voicing a similar opinion (only on NI unionists in her case) I don’t believe she ever quoted sources when she spouted that btw. Correct me if I’m wrong.

    My opinion is based on my experiences in Northern Ireland. The anti English sentiment up here amongst nationalists is probably a lot higher than the republic. ##

    ## please note this is my opinion so please don’t waste time for asking for sources. Thanks.

    Re your semantics does the frequently used irish republican term of brits out need clarification? Or are you not concerned with that side of things?


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    #2185
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Five eight. What planet are you living on? Let’s do a little survey here and now on this huge forum.

    Can anyone out there, who describes themselves as an Irish nationalist, and who is warm to England winning, whether football, rugby or even wars, please declare yourself??

    Get ready for the rush Five eight. If you are correct we will be inundated with responses on such a big forum

    I don't want Cavan to win anythng or Dublin..doesn't mean I hate them.

    You were gloating at the prospect of Scotland losing the other night...do you 'hate' Scotland?

    You lads are bandying about words you don't know the meaning of, and putting words in sentences of Irish presidents that aren't and never were there.


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    #2186
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    She never mentioned 'protestant's. Stop, you are embarrassing yourself.

    So when she said that people in Ni were brought up to hate catholics, you think she was referring to catholics as well. Ffs. Talking of embarrassing yourself. Jaysus. Ha.


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    #2187
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    timthumbni wrote: »
    So when she said that people in Ni were brought up to hate catholics, you think she was referring to catholics as well. Ffs. Talking of embarrassing yourself. Jaysus. Ha.

    No she wasn't. She was talking about 'people' raising their children to hate Catholics (her experience) and then in the very next sentence generalised it. Read the thing without the woe is me blinkers.

    And answer the question: At what point do kids learn to put KAT signs on celebratory bonfires...BECAUSE they most certainly do. Just as other kids will do the same about unionists and protestants if that is what they are getting at home.


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    #2188
    Five Eighth
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭Five Eighth


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Nope. I have already said this is my opinion. Your harping on about sources and the word etc simply made me refer to one of your ex presidents voicing a similar opinion (only on NI unionists in her case) I don’t believe she ever quoted sources when she spouted that btw. Correct me if I’m wrong.

    My opinion is based on my experiences in Northern Ireland. The anti English sentiment up here amongst nationalists is probably a lot higher than the republic. ##

    ## please note this is my opinion so please don’t waste time for asking for sources. Thanks.

    Re your semantics does the frequently used irish republican term of brits out need clarification? Or are you not concerned with that side of things?
    Am i correct that the 'Brits out' question has been resolved by the GFA?

    If, as suggested by the polls, a large proportion of Northern Irish nationalists would vote to remain within the UK then the matter is settled until a majority in NI votes otherwise.

    The question we are debating is whether you can justify asserting that the Irish/large percentage of the Irish are reared to hate Jews, non-Catholics, British, Northern Irish, English, etc.

    Basically, with no factual evidence to support this assertion, you're now suggesting this is just your opinion.


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    #2189
    trashcan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭trashcan


    downcow wrote: »
    Well I just googled to have a quick look what the gaa report and here it is. I guess a retraction to your bull**** will be forthcoming
    https://www.gaa.ie/news/croke-park-bloody-sunday-victims-remembered/

    No, I won’t be retracting. You said you had read “endless reports” but were unaware of the events of the morning until now. I simply do not find that credible in the least. The GAA were specifically commemorating what had happened at one of their games.


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    #2190
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,184 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    trashcan wrote: »
    No, I won’t be retracting. You said you had read “endless reports” but were unaware of the events of the morning until now. I simply do not find that credible in the least. The GAA were specifically commemorating what had happened at one of their games.

    Two lads, downcow and tim, literally inventing stuff to get annoyed about.


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    #2191
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    trashcan wrote: »
    No, I won’t be retracting. You said you had read “endless reports” but were unaware of the events of the morning until now. I simply do not find that credible in the least. The GAA were specifically commemorating what had happened at one of their games.

    You think what you wish.
    I was surprised to read this morning that a similar number of my country folk were massacred a few hours before your country folk were massacred in crooke park and that crooke park incident was in retaliation.
    I wonder her many Irish Americans know that?
    I must ask some of my nationalist friends did they know it?

    When did you learn of this?


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