Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

So, Mary McAleese's father wasn't at that event and didn't say that? You do realise that Mary McAleese's family were burnt out of their home?


The British Army would have been fine in '69 if they actually did what they were brought into do - protect catholics from protestants.

Her father was at the event and was introduced as MMs father. He was part of a group of 5 presenting the most sectarian presentation of our conflict that I have ever heard

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

What is wrong about what Mary McAleese said? Do you even know? There is an interview with Billy Hutchinson in today's Irish Times. This is what he has to day about the Rev. Ian Paisley.



Worth a read.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/billy-hutchinson-i-justify-everything-i-did-in-the-troubles-to-stay-sane-i-have-to-1.4414609

Hardly breaking news that many leaders on both sides were preaching hate.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Her father was at the event and was introduced as MMs father. He was part of a group of 5 presenting the most sectarian presentation of our conflict that I have ever heard

What did MMs father say?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Classic trolling

Where am I trolling?

You don't seem to know the difference between soldiers/intelligence officers and civilians and what it means when official state troops kill the innocent.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Hardly breaking news that many leaders on both sides were preaching hate.

I don't know of any Catholic leader who preached hate. In fact Catholic priests like Fr Denis Faul and those of the established churches did not preach hate like the way the Rev Ian Paisley did. That's all Paisley did.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Were they not your country folk who were killed in crooke park? What is the point you are making?
Or are you dictating to me that british folk are not my country folk?
I really don’t understand

None of The Cairo Gang were from your 'wee country' downcow.

jh79

jm08 wrote: »

I don't know of any Catholic leader who preached hate. In fact Catholic priests like Fr Denis Faul and those of the established churches did not preach hate like the way the Rev Ian Paisley did. That's all Paisley did.

Too busy making life miserable for us in the Republic.

Wasn't there an infamous priest who was in the IRA?Fr Ryan maybe?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Too busy making life miserable for us in the Republic.

Wasn't there an infamous priest who was in the IRA?Fr Ryan maybe?

Several were. But there was no RC church 'leader' who came out with the 'hate' Ian did. The was no organization similar to the Orange Order either.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

I don't know of any Catholic leader who preached hate. In fact Catholic priests like Fr Denis Faul and those of the established churches did not preach hate like the way the Rev Ian Paisley did. That's all Paisley did.

I think your school curriculum was lacking then lol

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

What did MMs father say?

I would be lying to try and quote him exactly as it is some time ago. They were a group of 5 and concurred with each other.

jm08

jh79 wrote: »

Too busy making life miserable for us in the Republic.

Wasn't there an infamous priest who was in the IRA?Fr Ryan maybe?

Sure.But none of them were preaching hate from the altar like Ian Paisley.

Just listening to an interview with Billy Hutchinson on rte1 now (Miriam o'Callaghan).

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

None of The Cairo Gang were from your 'wee country' downcow.

Curriculum problems again Francie. Unless I have my dates wrong I didn’t have a wee country then, but rather belonged to a big country and everyone killed were my country folk.
So rather than challenge my knowledge you should get back into you history books.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

I would be lying to try and quote him exactly as it is some time ago. They were a group of 5 and concurred with each other.

So, it's bull**** then? Convenient that you can't remember what was said for you to actually come up with the views you have.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Curriculum problems again Francie. Unless I have my dates wrong I didn’t have a wee country then, but rather belonged to a big country and everyone killed were my country folk.
So rather than challenge my knowledge you should get back into you history books.

So we are back to this: The 'countries' that were involved. They were 'The UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND'

None of the Cairo Gang were from your country of Ireland downcow.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

So, it's bull**** then? Convenient that you can't remember what was said for you to actually come up with the views you have.

Jm08 I told you exactly what was said. If it had been said about Catholics by someone I was presenting along with I would have immediately publicly distanced myself from such blatant sectarianism. MMs father did not.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Curriculum problems again Francie. Unless I have my dates wrong I didn’t have a wee country then, but rather belonged to a big country and everyone killed were my country folk.
So rather than challenge my knowledge you should get back into you history books.

You don't have to go to the history books to find out what happened on Bloody Sunday - it's all covered in the movie 'Michael Collins' (the lead role is played by 'our wee country' own Liam Neeson. think he got an academy award for it.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So we are back to this: The 'countries' that were involved. They were 'The UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND'

None of the Cairo Gang were from your country of Ireland downcow.

Francie you challenged my curriculum on this but the error is clearly with you.
You need to start recognising international borders or these discussions will go no where.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

So, it's bull**** then? Convenient that you can't remember what was said for you to actually come up with the views you have.

This is a bit like downcow's convenient friends and friends of friends who are introduced whenever he needs an example of something. Unverifiable rumours again.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie you challenged my curriculum on this but the error is clearly with you.
You need to start recognising international borders or these discussions will go no where.

None of them were from either your wee country or your country downcow.

Any teacher will confirm that. If you are from the north of Ireland, despite your fantasies, you never lived or were from Britain, great or not so great.

downcow

.....or maybe Francie is correct and the UN, the oxford dictionary and me are all wrong

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

.....or maybe Francie is correct and the UN, the oxford dictionary and me are all wrong

See the page linked here.

Circle the 'country's' the Cairo Gang were from in 1920, then identify the country you are in.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

See the page linked here.

Circle the 'country's' the Cairo Gang were from in 1920, then identify the country you are in.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland

Your link seems very clear that I was correct and it seems to support the UN and oxford dictionary. But this is all pedantic and follows your usual line and your only interest is to convince people that black crows are white, and apparently zero interest in learning anything. Indeed I believe you think you have nothing to learn.
Have you ever been wrong on here Francie?
Try and release yourself of this Achilles heal.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

I think your school curriculum was lacking then lol

Why don't you give out some names of catholic leaders who were preaching 'hate'.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Your link seems very clear that I was correct and it seems to support the UN and oxford dictionary. But this is all pedantic and follows your usual line and your only interest is to convince people that black crows are white, and apparently zero interest in learning anything. Indeed I believe you think you have nothing to learn.
Have you ever been wrong on here Francie?
Try and release yourself of this Achilles heal.

The UN says England and Wales (where the Cairo Gang were from) are Ireland?

I'd like to see the link to that one.


What you meant to say downcow, was, the Cairo Gang were working for the UK government. Not that they were your countrymen. The innocent people killed in Croke Park were your countrymen and women.

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

You think what you wish.
I was surprised to read this morning that a similar number of my country folk were massacred a few hours before your country folk were massacred in crooke park and that crooke park incident was in retaliation.
I wonder her many Irish Americans know that?
I must ask some of my nationalist friends did they know it?

When did you learn of this?

I will think what I wish, thanks. :cool:

I learned about it in school, since you ask. For as long as I’ve been aware of Bloody Sunday I’ve been aware of the events of the full day. You seem to want to imply that the mornings events have been airbrushed out of history, but you’re just wrong.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Jm08 I told you exactly what was said. If it had been said about Catholics by someone I was presenting along with I would have immediately publicly distanced myself from such blatant sectarianism. MMs father did not.

Downcow, saying that British troops should not have been brought into Northern Ireland is not a sectarian comment.



While saying that unionists need psychiatric help to realise that they are Irish is probably offensive to unionists, its not sectarian.

Necro

timthumbni wrote: »

Thanks for link. Interesting but no mention at all of bloody Friday or any of the other atrocities I mentioned. I suspect they were never mentioned to be honest but only you could tell. Certainly not in detail.

In history we concentrated on the Belfast blitz aspect of the Second World War and we did the home rule aspect of Irish politics. Also we looked at the Victorian era.

All in all we are talking about gcse level or the Irish equivalent. It’s never going to be in detail.

It would be covered under Republican and Loyalist terrorism, there were quite a few atrocities on either side so it would be facile to list them all in a summary.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Why don't you give out some names of catholic leaders who were preaching 'hate'.

How many names would you like. I can’t believe you are actually asking.
How about starting with the long ‘serving’ catholic leader of the biggest republican party Gerry Adams.
You don’t need the quotes as well - I hope you learnt them in those all-encompassing history lessons

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The UN says England and Wales (where the Cairo Gang were from) are Ireland?

I'd like to see the link to that one.


What you meant to say downcow, was, the Cairo Gang were working for the UK government. Not that they were your countrymen. The innocent people killed in Croke Park were your countrymen and women.

Francie is correct and the UN have made a mistake drawing the international borders 😂

Necro

downcow wrote: »

How many names would you like. I can’t believe you are actually asking.
How about starting with the long ‘serving’ catholic leader of the biggest republican party Gerry Adams.
You don’t need the quotes as well - I hope you learnt them in those all-encompassing history lessons

Gerry Adams was a priest now?

Not a fair comparison to the Reverend Paisley tbh.