Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

Hqrry113

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you go to war,there will always be collateral damage whether any of us like it or not.

Do you same thing about enniskillen?

jm08

RobMc59 wrote: »

You did say it was war francie,I agree with Downcow that it was`nt war which is why I think all killings that day were terrible.

Well, you can't beat the arrogance of the pair of you. A few days ago you had no idea about what happened on Bloody Sunday 100 years ago and now you are claiming that contrary to every respected historian that the Irish War of Independence wasn't a war. :D

Hqrry113

jm08 wrote: »

Well, you can't beat the arrogance of the pair of you. A few days ago you had no idea about what happened on Bloody Sunday 100 years ago and now you are claiming that contrary to every respected historian that the Irish War of Independence wasn't a war. :D

Same thing with the troubles a lot of people don't know what a guerrilla war is.

Periods of the troubles far more resembled a war than the war of independence.

Mehapoy

RobMc59 wrote: »

You did say it was war francie,I agree with Downcow that it was`nt war which is why I think all killings that day were terrible.

Ah, if it wasn't a war what were the British secret service doing in Dublin? On a stag do? Why were there auxiliaries deployed to Ireland made up of demobbed soldiers from WW1? Sight seeing

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

I think you will find that it was Francie who implied it was an act of war which inevitably makes it collateral damage.

I wouldn’t agree it was an act of war. Decent people were of fighting the Nazis in a real war while miserable little republicans tried to take advantage of the situation.

What ? Bloody Sunday happened while the British were fighting the Nazis ?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I describe that as a barbarous murder downcow that was wrong just as every act of violence in the conflict/war was wrong.

Thanks Francie. I appreciate that. Two events made me feel physically sick during the troubles. This one and the enniskillen mass murder of men women and children on Poppy Day.
I am conscious we watched them both live and how many hundreds were even worse’ if that’s possible, but were not covered live

downcow

Mehapoy wrote: »

Mask really slipping from the apologists for state sponsored terrorism in the last few pages, so entrenched in sectarianism that they can't admit the state failed utterly to control their own forces. Described kids being shot by state troops as 'collateral damage', they should take a break from posting for awhile and have a chat with themselves.

I wee bit of misquoting there. It was the republicans in here who claimed they were killed during a war and in retaliation for an attack by the other side. That sounds like collateral damage. But I think you will find that both rob and me are clear it was not a war in our eyes hence not collateral damage.

Mehapoy

downcow wrote: »

I wee bit of misquoting there. It was the republicans in here who claimed they were killed during a war and in retaliation for an attack by the other side. That sounds like collateral damage. But I think you will find that both rob and me are clear it was not a war in our eyes hence not collateral damage.

So they weren't collateral damage then, so your position is it was state troops shooting on civilians?

Hqrry113

downcow wrote: »

I wee bit of misquoting there. It was the republicans in here who claimed they were killed during a war and in retaliation for an attack by the other side. That sounds like collateral damage. But I think you will find that both rob and me are clear it was not a war in our eyes hence not collateral damage.

Not a war in your eyes..... makes sense

downcow

Mehapoy wrote: »

So they weren't collateral damage then, so your position is it was state troops shooting on civilians?

Tbh it is not something I know much about. Up until the other day I just knew (was it 9) people were shot dead in crooke park and I understood it was random innocent people shot by security forces - didn’t really know who the security forces were.

Seems on reading stuff here that it was clearly murder and should not have happened.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Tbh it is not something I know much about. Up until the other day I just knew (was it 9) people were shot dead in crooke park and I understood it was random innocent people shot by security forces - didn’t really know who the security forces were.

Seems on reading stuff here that it was clearly murder and should not have happened.

But you still backed up Rob who still can't condemn it 100 years later.

Mehapoy

downcow wrote: »

Tbh it is not something I know much about. Up until the other day I just knew (was it 9) people were shot dead in crooke park and I understood it was random innocent people shot by security forces - didn’t really know who the security forces were.

Seems on reading stuff here that it was clearly murder and should not have happened.

Well that's fair enough, btw it's croke and 14 people.
So in my mind we're down to 1 poster so blinded by sectarianism that they can't bring themselves to condemn state troops firing on civilians.

RobMc59

Mehapoy wrote: »

Well that's fair enough, btw it's croke and 14 people.
So in my mind we're down to 1 poster so blinded by sectarianism that they can't bring themselves to condemn state troops firing on civilians.

Do you understand the meaning of sectarianism?-Obviously not as I've made no references to anyone's religion at any time.

Junkyard Tom

Good morning Unionists/Partitionists, here's some breakfast food-for-thought for ye.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Good morning Unionists/Partitionists, here's some breakfast food-for-thought for ye.

Interesting article Tom,here's another from the same journalist.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/03/15/bloody-sunday-its-time-to-move-on/

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Interesting article Tom,here's another from the same journalist.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/03/15/bloody-sunday-its-time-to-move-on/

Did you miss the fact that he is suggesting a quid pro quo Rob?

More than 20 years after the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, the official end of the ‘Troubles’, do we want to put anyone in jail for for things that happened because of that conflict?

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you miss the fact that he is suggesting a quid pro quo Rob?

If your opinion is all deaths during the troubles/war were terrible then we agree on something.
Viewing certain deaths as justified is wrong whatever your view point.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

If your opinion is all deaths during the troubles/war were terrible then we agree on something.
Viewing certain deaths as justified is wrong whatever your view point.

The question you need to answer ROb, is: do you hold the state to a higher code.

So far it is clear you don't.

BonnieSituation

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Good morning Unionists/Partitionists, here's some breakfast food-for-thought for ye.

Don't be posting from that rag.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Good morning Unionists/Partitionists, here's some breakfast food-for-thought for ye.

He says this over and over again in various ways. “ That vulnerability is built into the Good Friday Agreement itself, which gives a foreign government – namely, the pro-EU Republic of Ireland – a say over how part of the UK is ruled. ”.
Tell me join Roi have a day over how part of uk is ruled?

Junkyard Tom

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Don't be posting from that rag.

Every little helps. Save England £200m a week, support Irish unification.

downcow wrote: »

He says this over and over again in various ways. “ That vulnerability is built into the Good Friday Agreement itself, which gives a foreign government – namely, the pro-EU Republic of Ireland – a say over how part of the UK is ruled. ”.
Tell me join Roi have a day over how part of uk is ruled?

You're getting a border in the Irish Sea because the of the 'ROI's' (the Irish people north and south) influence on how the north is ruled, if Unionists and the Tories had their way there'd be a physical border in Ireland.

The north isn't Britain DC, never was and never will be, you'd think your crowd would have come to terms with that after all these years.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You're getting a border in the Irish Sea because the of the 'ROI's' (the Irish people north and south) influence on how the north is ruled, if Unionists and the Tories had their way there'd be a physical border in Ireland.

The north isn't Britain DC, never was and never will be, you'd think your crowd would have come to terms with that after all these years.

Tom why not address the question you are asked? It was around the article posted you in which the author claimed several times that due to the GFA the Republic of Ireland had a say in the running of Northern Ireland.
If your reply above is the best you can do then maybe you should have said, the guy was wrong. If you are talking about influence, then that is something entirely different. Many have an influence over how any of the countries of these two islands are run e.g. the USA and EU, to name but a couple

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Tom why not address the question you are asked? It was around the article posted you in which the author claimed several times that due to the GFA the Republic of Ireland had a say in the running of Northern Ireland.
If your reply above is the best you can do then maybe you should have said, the guy was wrong. If you are talking about influence, then that is something entirely different. Many have an influence over how any of the countries of these two islands are run e.g. the USA and EU, to name but a couple

You cannot fart in any significant way up there without consultation with Dublin.

Britain would consult with Dublin before imposing direct rule in no-deal Brexit
Bradley says if direct rule is restored to deal with issues around Brexit, it will be limited to short-term impact of leaving without deal

The Belfast Agreement requires the British government to consult with Dublin before imposing direct rule in the event of a no-deal Brexit, Northern Secretary Karen Bradley has told MPs.

“We have an international agreement that we have signed as a country which says this is the way decision-making happens in Northern Ireland, and it happens through devolved institutions,” she told the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.

“That is what both governments have signed up to. Changes to that, changes to the way decision-making is required, will require consultation and discussions with the Irish Government. ”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/britain-would-consult-with-dublin-before-imposing-direct-rule-in-no-deal-brexit-1.3840646

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You cannot fart in any significant way up there without consultation with Dublin.

There is a huge difference in consulting Dublin and Ireland running ni Which is what was said a few posts back by junkyard Tom.

Let me ‘consult’ with you Francie. Do you think I should support a United Ireland?

Lol do we need to continue for you to understand

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

There is a huge difference in consulting Dublin and Ireland running ni Which is what was said a few posts back by junkyard Tom.

Let me ‘consult’ with you Francie. Do you think I should support a United Ireland?

Lol do we need to continue for you to understand

Perhaps the four nations should have consulted with Taoisearch martin first about covid strategy before any agreement as we have to run everything by dublin first according to francie..:pac:

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

There is a huge difference in consulting Dublin and Ireland running ni Which is what was said a few posts back by junkyard Tom.

Let me ‘consult’ with you Francie. Do you think I should support a United Ireland?

Lol do we need to continue for you to understand

You are clutching there in light of events downcow. Dublin is consulted, therefore Dublin has a say in running NI.

You will paint this picture of a fantasy NI and then us people living in the real world will ask, what was all the hassle arounf the Anglo Irish Agreement and the GFA about...even Sunningdale?
What was Molyneaux, Trimble, Paisley etc getting excited about? The Irish Government being given a say in the running of the shop...is the answer.

Mad to think you think they were wrong about that.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are clutching there in light of events downcow. Dublin is consulted, therefore Dublin has a say in running NI.

You will paint this picture of a fantasy NI and then us people living in the real world will ask, what was all the hassle arounf the Anglo Irish Agreement and the GFA about...even Sunningdale?
What was Molyneaux, Trimble, Paisley etc getting excited about? The Irish Government being given a say in the running of the shop...is the answer.

Mad to think you think they were wrong about that.

The Anglo Irish agreement did arguably give Roi a say in ni. I was vehemently opposed to it.
I supported the gfa because it made it very clear that ni was part of UK until it’s people decide otherwise which is why I supported it.
The reason many unionists opposed the gfa was due to issues like the release of mass killers etc.

Francie why don’t you just quote the piece of the gfa which gives Roi authority to decide even what day the bins go out in ni.
You are usually good at quoting.

downcow

Francie you were ranting on here that sf done nothing wrong around the bobby story charade. I guess you are following developments that we now know that sf invited 1.000s of people to the wake and the funeral.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

The Anglo Irish agreement did arguably give Roi a say in ni. I was vehemently opposed to it.
I supported the gfa because it made it very clear that ni was part of UK until it’s people decide otherwise which is why I supported it.
The reason many unionists opposed the gfa was due to issues like the release of mass killers etc.

Francie why don’t you just quote the piece of the gfa which gives Roi authority to decide even what day the bins go out in ni.
You are usually good at quoting.

I have already quoted YOUR former secretary of State. If you wish to delude yourself that Dublin doesn't have a say on significant matters in NI that's your own business.


We are not interested in what days you put your bins out...knock yourself out on that one.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have already quoted YOUR former secretary of State. If you wish to delude yourself that Dublin doesn't have a say on significant matters in NI that's your own business.


We are not interested in what days you put your bins out...knock yourself out on that one.

Why not quote the gfa. It’s the document you are claiming gives Roi authority in ni? No interest in an ex Secretary of State’s interpretation.

Gerry and Martin got this one badly wrong and you need to come to terms with that