Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

certainly the UK got lots wrong.

No it's one of the worst performing countries on Earth for COVID, and with the mess of Brexit has caused itself immense damage both economically and in its international reputation.

All this means that Ireland is integrating north-south deeper and deeper until it will be impossible to reverse. Britain can go its own way but it will not be taking the Irish people in the north with it as the soon-to-be Irish Sea border will demonstrate.

dashcamdanny

Unionism really spoils the north.

Lived there. Many years. Great place. But the fleg wavers drag it down to the pits. Make it a real sh1t hole. But they dont know any other way up there.

Change will come naturally .

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No it's one of the worst performing countries on Earth for COVID, and with the mess of Brexit has caused itself immense damage both economically and in its international reputation.

All this means that Ireland is integrating north-south deeper and deeper until it will be impossible to reverse. Britain can go its own way but it will not be taking the Irish people in the north with it as the soon-to-be Irish Sea border will demonstrate.

The UK has left NI in the EU and somebody is trying to make the case that Dublin doesn't have a say.

All the DUP bluster and all May and Johnson's brinkmanship...and they did exactly what Dublin wanted, put the border in the Irish Sea. Edwin Poots is overseeing the project as we speak as the rest of Unionism tries to pretend it isn't happening.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The UK has left NI in the EU and somebody is trying to make the case that Dublin doesn't have a say.

All the DUP bluster and all May and Johnson's brinkmanship...and they did exactly what Dublin wanted, put the border in the Irish Sea. Edwin Poots is overseeing the project as we speak as the rest of Unionism tries to pretend it isn't happening.

We guard Irish airspace and build Irish warships,there`s obviously going to be a close relationship with consultation on both sides..

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

We guard Irish airspace and build Irish warships,there`s obviously going to be a close relationship with consultation on both sides..

You might want to forget the disaster that was made of Brexit. The UK tried to ****e all over Ireland but they found out very quickly they cannot do that anymore, because of the GFA.

Lesson - Don't sign agreements giving others a say if you want to act in your own selfish interest.

Rolo2010

RobMc59 wrote: »

We guard Irish airspace and build Irish warships,there`s obviously going to be a close relationship with consultation on both sides..

Who's we? The whole guarding Irish airspace is dodgy anyway. I support Ireland buying its own aircraft. It will drive the left insane but we shouldn't be relying on a nation which turned its back on Irish people in the North.

FrancieBrady

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Who's we? The whole guarding Irish airspace is dodgy anyway. I support Ireland buying its own aircraft. It will drive the left insane but we shouldn't be relying on a nation which turned its back on Irish people in the North.

They only do it to protect themselves. We have nothing to fear as we are not a target for anyone. That's what happens when you don't invade or colonise or ride shotgun for the world's self appointed police.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They only do it to protect themselves. We have nothing to fear as we are not a target for anyone. That's what happens when you don't invade or colonise or ride shotgun for the world's self appointed police.

Protecting the skies over the Atlantic Archipelago is in everyone`s interests which is why your suggestion the UK would fall out with Ireland long term is misguided imo.

Rolo2010

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They only do it to protect themselves. We have nothing to fear as we are not a target for anyone. That's what happens when you don't invade or colonise or ride shotgun for the world's self appointed police.

It's not about fearing anyone. It's just something we should be doing ourselves. Irish jets would respond much faster to intercept Russian aircraft messing about in civilian traffic lanes with their transponders off.

Hqrry113

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You might want to forget the disaster that was made of Brexit. The UK tried to ****e all over Ireland but they found out very quickly they cannot do that anymore, because of the GFA.

Lesson - Don't sign agreements giving others a say if you want to act in your own selfish interest.

They'd rather sign that than have mortar bombs flying into downing street while they're having their meetings.

saabsaab

It is a failed state. Also many of the 'Unionist' side are coming to the same view. You will always have the extremist 'flag burners' that will never come around but they are in a minorty.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Protecting the skies over the Atlantic Archipelago is in everyone`s interests which is why your suggestion the UK would fall out with Ireland long term is misguided imo.

Jaysus. Where did I suggest they'd fall out?

Stop trying to gild lily's Rob. The Uk are in our airspace primarily to protect themselves. Part of the reason they were happy with the developing ****show in the north was the same, it gave them a base here to prevent attack on Britain itself.

Hqrry113

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jaysus. Where did I suggest they'd fall out?

Stop trying to gild lily's Rob. The Uk are in our airspace primarily to protect themselves. Part of the reason they were happy with the developing ****show in the north was the same, it gave them a base here to prevent attack on Britain itself.

It's funny how loyalists go on about how much they love the UK or whatever but when it came down to it in WW2 feck all of them wanted to go and fight with the Brits even British Prime Minister Winston Churchill negatively characterised Northern Irish youths as "young fellows of the locality who loaf about with their hands in their pockets impeding recruiting and the work of the shipyard"

Northern Ireland is also likely where the Brits keep their nuclear weapons as well.

downcow

Hqrry113 wrote: »

It's funny how loyalists go on about how much they love the UK or whatever but when it came down to it in WW2 feck all of them wanted to go and fight with the Brits even British Prime Minister Winston Churchill negatively characterised Northern Irish youths as "young fellows of the locality who loaf about with their hands in their pockets impeding recruiting and the work of the shipyard"

Northern Ireland is also likely where the Brits keep their nuclear weapons as well.

Writings of Winston Churchill

“By the grace of God Ulster stood a faithful sentinel”

“That was a dark and dangerous hour. We were alone, and had to face single-handed the full fury of the German attack raining down death and destruction on our cities and, still more deadly, seeking to strangle our life by cutting off the entry to our ports of the ships which brought us our food and the weapons we so sorely needed.

Only one great channel remained open. It remained open because loyal Ulster gave us the full use of Northern Irish ports and waters, and thus ensured the free working of the Clyde and the Mersey.

But for the loyalty of Northern Ireland we should have been confronted with slavery and death and the light which now shines so strongly throughout the world would have been quenched.

The bonds of affection between Great Britain and the people of Northern Ireland have been tempered by fire and are now, I believe, unbreakable.”
“We have traveled a hard and darksome road to victory in Europe, and at every turn in this memorable journey the loyalty and courage of Ulster have gleamed before the eyes of men.

The stand of the Government and People of Northern Ireland for the unity of the British Empire and Commonwealth and for the great cause of freedom, for which we all risked our survival will never be forgotten by Great Britain. A strong loyal Ulster will always be vital to the security and well-being of our whole Empire and Commonwealth”

downcow

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Unionism really spoils the north.

Lived there. Many years. Great place. But the fleg wavers drag it down to the pits. Make it a real sh1t hole. But they dont know any other way up there.

Change will come naturally .

I am curious dashcandanny. Do you include those who bedeck towns with gaalic flags when their teams are in big competitions as dragging it down?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am curious dashcandanny. Do you include those who bedeck towns with gaalic flags when their teams are in big competitions as dragging it down?

That's like comparing a dog peeing on a pole to mark territory to a dog jumping up and down in excitement because it's going on it's favourite walk.

Hqrry113

downcow wrote: »

Writings of Winston Churchill

“By the grace of God Ulster stood a faithful sentinel”

“That was a dark and dangerous hour. We were alone, and had to face single-handed the full fury of the German attack raining down death and destruction on our cities and, still more deadly, seeking to strangle our life by cutting off the entry to our ports of the ships which brought us our food and the weapons we so sorely needed.

Only one great channel remained open. It remained open because loyal Ulster gave us the full use of Northern Irish ports and waters, and thus ensured the free working of the Clyde and the Mersey.

But for the loyalty of Northern Ireland we should have been confronted with slavery and death and the light which now shines so strongly throughout the world would have been quenched.

The bonds of affection between Great Britain and the people of Northern Ireland have been tempered by fire and are now, I believe, unbreakable.”
“We have traveled a hard and darksome road to victory in Europe, and at every turn in this memorable journey the loyalty and courage of Ulster have gleamed before the eyes of men.

The stand of the Government and People of Northern Ireland for the unity of the British Empire and Commonwealth and for the great cause of freedom, for which we all risked our survival will never be forgotten by Great Britain. A strong loyal Ulster will always be vital to the security and well-being of our whole Empire and Commonwealth”

All that showed to Churchill was that the land of Northern Ireland could be used for tactical reasons, feck all actually wanted to risk their lives

Rolo2010

downcow wrote: »

I am curious dashcandanny. Do you include those who bedeck towns with gaalic flags when their teams are in big competitions as dragging it down?

Christ. Supporting your club/county is not the same as decking your street in Union Jacks to intimidate the other community.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's like comparing a dog peeing on a pole to mark territory to a dog jumping up and down in excitement because it's going on it's favourite walk.

Francie. Don’t be so hard on the gaa. Some may view there displays as not as multi- colourful as the unionist flag displays but they only have the colour of their gaa club to play with. I do accept though that they are often completely over the top in magnitude and give no consideration to unionist sensitivities eg where memorials, churches, etc are. But this is a fairly new phenomenon of covering nationalist towns in their own colours and given time they will learn the lessons the unionist community had to learn, around ensuring they do it with respect. I guess it is completely outside their awareness currently that they are even marking territory and sending a strong message to unionist minorities about who is in charge.
But hey, there are some unionist areas where there is still not enough respect shown around cultural displays, so we are no angels either.
Interesting that nationalists copied our bands, bonfires, and even the aoh copies oo, so hardly surprising that they are copying the flag and bunting displays.
They’ll be getting a monarch next lol

Beltby

downcow wrote: »

Francie. Don’t be so hard on the gaa. Some may view there displays as not as multi- colourful as the unionist flag displays but they only have the colour of their gaa club to play with. I do accept though that they are often completely over the top in magnitude and give no consideration to unionist sensitivities eg where memorials, churches, etc are. But this is a fairly new phenomenon of covering nationalist towns in their own colours and given time they will learn the lessons the unionist community had to learn, around ensuring they do it with respect. I guess it is completely outside their awareness currently that they are even marking territory and sending a strong message to unionist minorities about who is in charge.
But hey, there are some unionist areas where there is still not enough respect shown around cultural displays, so we are no angels either.
Interesting that nationalists copied our bands, bonfires, and even the aoh copies oo, so hardly surprising that they are copying the flag and bunting displays.
They’ll be getting a monarch next lol

That rubbish is siege mentality at its finest.

Junkyard Tom

The desperate grasping to equate ordinary Irish civic life with with Unionist militaristic, sectarian, territorial, triumphalism is incessant, like a lamenting Lambeg Drum on eternal repeat.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. Don’t be so hard on the gaa. Some may view there displays as not as multi- colourful as the unionist flag displays but they only have the colour of their gaa club to play with. I do accept though that they are often completely over the top in magnitude and give no consideration to unionist sensitivities eg where memorials, churches, etc are. But this is a fairly new phenomenon of covering nationalist towns in their own colours and given time they will learn the lessons the unionist community had to learn, around ensuring they do it with respect. I guess it is completely outside their awareness currently that they are even marking territory and sending a strong message to unionist minorities about who is in charge.
But hey, there are some unionist areas where there is still not enough respect shown around cultural displays, so we are no angels either.
Interesting that nationalists copied our bands, bonfires, and even the aoh copies oo, so hardly surprising that they are copying the flag and bunting displays.
They’ll be getting a monarch next lol

You have clearly fooled some here that you are not a dyed in the wool belligerent Unionist, despite revealing yourself again and again, like you have above.

The embarrassing tantrum some of your community had about the 'fleg' is in the background to all you say above.

mehico

downcow wrote: »

Interesting that nationalists copied our bands, bonfires, and even the aoh copies oo, so hardly surprising that they are copying the flag and bunting displays.

Just on the bonfires. I don't think anyone could claim that nationalists copied this from the unionist tradition. I remember once being at an event where some of the 12 July bonfire organisers were trying to stop the bonfires being used to burn nationalist flags and emblems etc. and in fairness the police representative said there had been progress made on this.

But the point was made that day that bonfires were an ancient Irish tradition and were mostly famously associated with the ritualistic bonfires being lit at the Hill of Tara during the Samhain festival with the torches then being carried across the island to light bonfires on other sacred sites.

The bonfire tradition going back through Irish history is really quite interesting but maybe for another time and if anything the Irish bonfire tradition could be considered a shared tradition.

FrancieBrady

mehico wrote: »

Just on the bonfires. I don't think anyone could claim that nationalists copied this from the unionist tradition. I remember once being at an event where some of the 12 July bonfire organisers were trying to stop the bonfires being used to burn nationalist flags and emblems etc. and in fairness the police representative said there had been progress made on this.

But the point was made that day that bonfires were an ancient Irish tradition and were mostly famously associated with the ritualistic bonfires being lit at the Hill of Tara during the Samhain festival with the torches then being carried across the island to light bonfires on other sacred sites.

The bonfire tradition going back through Irish history is really quite interesting but maybe for another time and if anything the Irish bonfire tradition could be considered a shared tradition.

downcow would be claiming Unionism invented fire if he won his wee game of oneupmanship in his own head.

downcow

Folks, of course what I posted was slightly tongue in cheek, but only slightly.
What I find astounding is how some on here see everything nationalist as good and everything unionist as bad.
The flag/bunting celebrations are very similar.
Each community puts them up as a celebration to represent their culture and identity and, in the main, with little or no consideration of the impact on the other minority community.
My road has had gaa flags on every pole for two months. I know that it alienates the unionist community and reminds them they just need to keep their heads down. If I was to put up a single flag to represent my community then i would receive intimidation. I imagine this is replicated in unionist areas.
So those who think there is no comparison are just simply extremely prejudiced and unaware

Rolo2010

downcow wrote: »

Folks, of course what I posted was slightly tongue in cheek, but only slightly.
What I find astounding is how some on here see everything nationalist as good and everything unionist as bad.
The flag/bunting celebrations are very similar.
Each community puts them up as a celebration to represent their culture and identity and, in the main, with little or no consideration of the impact on the other minority community.
My road has had gaa flags on every pole for two months. I know that it alienates the unionist community and reminds them they just need to keep their heads down. If I was to put up a single flag to represent my community then i would receive intimidation. I imagine this is replicated in unionist areas.
So those who think there is no comparison are just simply extremely prejudiced and unaware

Anyone who feels alienated by a GAA flag needs to get their head checked. Unionists act like it is a militant group.

RobMc59

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Anyone who feels alienated by a GAA flag needs to get their head checked. Unionists act like it is a militant group.

Some of the GAA ground names are a bit controversial.

jm08

RobMc59 wrote: »

Some of the GAA ground names are a bit controversial.

Would renaming them make a difference?

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Some of the GAA ground names are a bit controversial.

So are the many many monuments and names celebrating Britain and Unionism. Not least the statue to the original 'terrorist' who re-introduced the gun to Irish politics - Carson.

Yet nobody wants that all torn down.

By all means fly the British flag and mark your kebs Red White and Blue...but understand what it is - the marking of territory.

Rolo2010

jm08 wrote: »

Would renaming them make a difference?

No, it wouldn't. Anything Irish alienates them. That's why Unionist politicians openly mock the Irish language or Gaelic games.