Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As the saying goes, what has that to do with the price of tea in China.

Don't deflect to save downcow from answering the questions Rob.

Hahaha that is rich. From the master of not answering questions 😂

Sinbad_NI

RobMc59 wrote: »

You probably should`nt try and lecture anyone about flags.How long did it take before the confederate flag was banned from GAA matches? :pac:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cork-gaa-to-confiscate-confederate-flags-from-fans-attending-matches-1.4277385

That open to all GAA.... you know the one... that has very recent history of naming clubs and competitions after republican killers.

Yeah, that’s very cross community... nothing to see here LOL.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Hahaha that is rich. From the master of not answering questions ��

Whenever you are ready.

When and how did the 'people of Northern Ireland' 'decide' to stay in the UK?

What other 'countries' in the world don't have official flags of their own?

downcow

Sadly francies noise has seemed to have driven away nationalist posters that I may have learnt something from.

droidman123

downcow wrote: »

Sadly francies noise has seemed to have driven away nationalist posters that I may have learnt something from.

We are watching the toy show

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

This is ridiculous stuff that is being peddled, and highly sectarian. The religion of the people should not matter at all. To start quoting Protestants in the GAA is every bit as disingenuous as if I started quoting the Catholics who were in the RUC or UDR and suggested that proved they were somehow looking after catholic interests and did not favour Unionists.
I am astounded at the hypocrisy of many on this thread. And I admire those in the nationalist community on here, who can look at things a little more objectively.

You are pretty transparent Downcow, you were talking about being offended by GAA flags as if the GAA were the other side of a coin from the Orange Order/12th July Marching.

How interesting that you then take a side step to avoid any mention of the OO and pull the RUC/UDR out of the hat. Is that because you know there are no Catholics connected or commemorated by the OO and just illustrates the blatant sectarianism of such an organisation.

The RUC was supposed to be a neutral official state force, open to Catholic or Protestant, but became mired in the troubles and sectarianism.
I think most can see the difference.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Whenever you are ready.

When and how did the 'people of Northern Ireland' 'decide' to stay in the UK?

What other 'countries' in the world don't have official flags of their own?

I honestly am not aware of the people of owc ever deciding to leave the UK. We’ve been here for over 200 years.

Flags! Francie you seem infatuated by flags.
England Scotland’s and wales had flags before the UK formed. Ni did not. You seem into officiality in a big way.
Our heritage is Presbyterianism which could be defined as individualism. We don’t need officialdom to give us permission. We are also Protestant protest-ant. We don’t conform easily. I suppose it is the antithesis of Catholic nationalist.
Ask any northern Irish person what there flag is and they will direct you to one of many versions of the Ulster banner lol and they won’t call it the Ulster banner lol.
Some will have crowns and some won’t, some will have a wee red border and some won’t, some will have a union flag in the corner and some won’t, some will have a star and some won’t, but they will all have a red hand and a Red Cross (mightned even be the same hand) but we are not catholic nationalists so we don’t care that every flag is not the same. We are all ok with the variety. And we also see the union flag as our flag. We are very relaxed about it. It all adds to the colour.
I don’t really expect you to understand

Fr D Maugire

Solutionking wrote: »

But you seem to think it is ok for you to bring your hate carnival?

Seems a bit one sided here. People want a unified Ireland but just want to them threat a section of the population similar to what we seen in South Africa based on the comments?

Not see any issue with that?

What is the National hate fest that has anti-Unionism at it's core?

As for the comparison to South Africa, are you having a laugh. In which country were the majority population ruled by the minority population for 2-3 centuries, a country in which the minority had laws introduced to persecute the majority and refused any attempt at sharing power with the majority and when the majority finally got a say, had it gerrymandered that they could still have their own separate state in which they would become tha majority so they could then lord it over the minority. Oh thats right....its Ireland.

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

You are pretty transparent Downcow, you were talking about being offended by GAA flags as if the GAA were the other side of a coin from the Orange Order/12th July Marching.

How interesting that you then take a side step to avoid any mention of the OO and pull the RUC/UDR out of the hat. Is that because you know there are no Catholics connected or commemorated by the OO and just illustrates the blatant sectarianism of such an organisation.

The RUC was supposed to be a neutral official state force, open to Catholic or Protestant, but became mired in the troubles and sectarianism.
I think most can see the difference.

Father you are out of touch. Many loyalist bands have catholic members who will be parading on the twelfth orange parades. And when I say many I mean that in same way as many unionists play gaa. The band in the neighbouring village to me have two catholic members and that is by no means unique.
As for the orange order themselves, I think as a religious organisation they have exactly the same number of catholic members as the Presbyterian church which is exactly the same number of Protestant members in the AOH and the RC church ie zero.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I honestly am not aware of the people of owc ever deciding to leave the UK. We’ve been here for over 200 years.

Flags! Francie you seem infatuated by flags.
England Scotland’s and wales had flags before the UK formed. Ni did not. You seem into officiality in a big way.
Our heritage is Presbyterianism which could be defined as individualism. We don’t need officialdom to give us permission. We are also Protestant protest-ant. We don’t conform easily. I suppose it is the antithesis of Catholic nationalist.
Ask any northern Irish person what there flag is and they will direct you to one of many versions of the Ulster banner lol and they won’t call it the Ulster banner lol.
Some will have crowns and some won’t, some will have a wee red border and some won’t, some will have a union flag in the corner and some won’t, some will have a star and some won’t, but they will all have a red hand and a Red Cross (mightned even be the same hand) but we are not catholic nationalists so we don’t care that every flag is not the same. We are all ok with the variety. And we also see the union flag as our flag. We are very relaxed about it. It all adds to the colour.
I don’t really expect you to understand

So that is a NO to both questions. The people of NI did not decide to stay in the UK and you don't know of any other 'country' that does not have an official flag.

No obsession with any thing but keeping you truthful.

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

Father you are out of touch. Many loyalist bands have catholic members who will be parading on the twelfth orange parades. And when I say many I mean that in same way as many unionists play gaa. The band in the neighbouring village to me have two catholic members and that is by no means unique.
As for the orange order themselves, I think as a religious organisation they have exactly the same number of catholic members as the Presbyterian church which is exactly the same number of Protestant members in the AOH and the RC church ie zero.

I highly doubt there are any Catholics out parading on the 12th July unless they are from a mixed religious background. You can claim it all you want, but I have never seen any evidence of it.

If the OO are a religious organisation, why do they celebrate a war and form the largest part of so-called Unionist culture.

The AOH in comparison is a micro-scopic organisation that has little to no impact on the lives of the average Irish person.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So that is a NO to both questions. The people of NI did not decide to stay in the UK and you don't know of any other 'country' that does not have an official flag.

No obsession with any thing but keeping you truthful.

Francie I like you I like to keep it honest. I can’t think of any country that does not have an official flag - but hey we don’t mind being unique. It’s very Ulster Scots

As for us choosing. That’s a wee bit silly question. Everyone knows it’s our choice. The very moment the sos thinks otherwise he will call a referendum.
It’s a bit like saying when did fish decide to live in water. Try taking them out and see what happens.
I think every election for the last 100 years has allowed us to choose and we have ALWAYS choose to stay in UK

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I highly doubt there are any Catholics out parading on the 12th July unless they are from a mixed religious background. You can claim it all you want, but I have never seen any evidence of it.

If the OO are a religious organisation, why do they celebrate a war and form the largest part of so-called Unionist culture.

The AOH in comparison is a micro-scopic organisation that has little to no impact on the lives of the average Irish person.

That’s very catholic of you to want us all to act the same

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I highly doubt there are any Catholics out parading on the 12th July unless they are from a mixed religious background. You can claim it all you want, but I have never seen any evidence of it.

If the OO are a religious organisation, why do they celebrate a war and form the largest part of so-called Unionist culture.

The AOH in comparison is a micro-scopic organisation that has little to no impact on the lives of the average Irish person.

Your sectarianism is stark. Do you really believe Catholics can’t be unionist or loyalist.
Setting aside locals, I know several Catholics who came over here in the army and married and stayed and are completely unionist and loyalist

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

That’s very catholic of you to want us all to act the same

Well, except I am not Catholic and this is a lame way to avoid answering questions.

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I highly doubt there are any Catholics out parading on the 12th July unless they are from a mixed religious background. You can claim it all you want, but I have never seen any evidence of it.

If the OO are a religious organisation, why do they celebrate a war and form the largest part of so-called Unionist culture.

The AOH in comparison is a micro-scopic organisation that has little to no impact on the lives of the average Irish person.

Father. I think you have spent too long in the monolithic monster that is the rc church.
Tell me any role you think either a catholic or Protestant does not particyin and I am pretty sure I will show you otherwise (bar actual religious organisations of course )

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Well, except I am not Catholic and this is a lame way to avoid answering questions.

Well you are certainly acting like a devout one lol

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie I like you I like to keep it honest. I can’t think of any country that does not have an official flag - but hey we don’t mind being unique. It’s very Ulster Scots

As for us choosing. That’s a wee bit silly question. Everyone knows it’s our choice. The very moment the sos thinks otherwise he will call a referendum.
It’s a bit like saying when did fish decide to live in water. Try taking them out and see what happens.
I think every election for the last 100 years has allowed us to choose and we have ALWAYS choose to stay in UK

Partition was enforced by threat so that you could win elections downcow. Actually I am wrong, Unionists changed the system of voting (while London stod by and did nothing) so that they could win elections. And when that wasn't enough they gerrymandered constituencies to ensure it.

Own your own past. It is the past and you'll never be allowed to do it again because we now have a say, but don't try to pretend it was anything else.

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

Your sectarianism is stark. Do you really believe Catholics can’t be unionist or loyalist.
Setting aside locals, I know several Catholics who came over here in the army and married and stayed and are completely unionist and loyalist

So the families of British soldiers, yeah no biased mentality there at all:rolleyes:

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

Well you are certainly acting like a devout one lol

Not really, just someone who when they look at the history of this island see's Unionism as primarily based on hatred of Catholics. It amazes me that although Presbyterians were also persecuted under the penal laws and that some of their members like Henry Joy McCracken saw the forest from the trees, yet when the penal laws were finally lifted, they jumped straight back in with their persecuters to oppose any possibility of a shared society.

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Not really, just someone who when they look at the history of this island see's Unionism as primarily based on hatred of Catholics. It amazes me that although Presbyterians were also persecuted under the penal laws and that some of their members like Henry Joy McCracken saw the forest from the trees, yet when the penal laws were finally lifted, they jumped straight back in with their persecuters to oppose any possibility of a shared society.

Don’t focus on being amazed. Instead try to consider why the Presbyterians felt safer going with the UK.
You guys had your chance and screwed it by being so bigoted and sectarian

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Don’t focus on being amazed. Instead try to consider why the Presbyterians felt safer going with the UK.
You guys had your chance and screwed it by being so bigoted and sectarian

Perfectly healthy Presbyterian population here downcow, my brother married one, 5 children, all Irish and proud of it. One of them played for his county and was honoured at a Sunday gathering in their church. All of them worship every Sunday in this border town at the same time as the COI and the RC brethren. Not a remark or comment passed on it. A normal society.
Heather Humphey's TD and Minister is a Presbyterian and proud of it too. Nobody has an issue with her religion, she gets support across religions.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Perfectly healthy Presbyterian population here downcow, my brother married one, 5 children, all Irish and proud of it. One of them played for his county and was honoured at a Sunday gathering in their church. All of them worship every Sunday in this border town at the same time as the COI and the RC brethren. Not a remark or comment passed on it. A normal society.
Heather Humphey's TD and Minister is a Presbyterian and proud of it too. Nobody has an issue with her religion, she gets support across religions.

Great stuff. Classic Presbyterian culture. Live and let live. Pass on my best wishes to her and my condolences that she didn’t end up sharing her life with a broad minded partner.
You should be very thankful that you got to spend your life with a blackmouth. We are hard to beat 😂

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

Don’t focus on being amazed. Instead try to consider why the Presbyterians felt safer going with the UK.
You guys had your chance and screwed it by being so bigoted and sectarian

Absolute nonsense. When the possibility of Home Rule was first talked about, (Which meant Ireland staying within the UK). Were Presbyterians in favour or against? If Ireland was not leaving the UK, on what basis would Presbyterians be opposed to it?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Great stuff. Classic Presbyterian culture. Live and let live. Pass on my best wishes to her and my condolences that she didn’t end up sharing her life with a broad minded partner.
You should be very thankful that you got to spend your life with a blackmouth. We are hard to beat ��

Wrong again downcow, it is OUR culture. It doesn't matter what religion you are. Heather Humphrey's has gone to the top of government and nobody cares whether she is Roman Catholic, Protestant or Presbyterian.
Think for a minute, if you can, how liberating that is.

That is what the people of Northern Ireland lost out on when partition was foisted upon them. YOU, despite your denials, are a product of partition.

Think about that, when you lie about the people 'deciding' to stay with the UK.

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. When the possibility of Home Rule was first talked about, (Which meant Ireland staying within the UK). Were Presbyterians in favour or against? If Ireland was not leaving the UK, on what basis would Presbyterians be opposed to it?

I am simply asking you why you think Ulster Scots decides they wanted to stay with uk? Don’t say nonsense when I simply asked a question

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wrong again downcow, it is OUR culture. It doesn't matter what religion you are. Heather Humphrey's has gone to the top of government and nobody cares whether she is Roman Catholic, Protestant or Presbyterian.
Think for a minute, if you can, how liberating that is.

That is what the people of Northern Ireland lost out on when partition was foisted upon them. YOU, despite your denials, are a product of partition.

Think about that, when you lie about the people 'deciding' to stay with the UK.

Michelle is a shinner and she’s gone to the top here. Conor Murphy is a kxxxxx and he has even gone to the top. Beat that. We allow kxxxers to the top

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Partition was enforced by threat so that you could win elections downcow. Actually I am wrong, Unionists changed the system of voting (while London stod by and did nothing) so that they could win elections. And when that wasn't enough they gerrymandered constituencies to ensure it.

Own your own past. It is the past and you'll never be allowed to do it again because we now have a say, but don't try to pretend it was anything else.

Partition was democratically accepted by the Irish Dail which approved the Treaty, subsequently the Irish people voted for the GFA which copperfastened partition in modern times.

Sad to see the democratic will of the people being ignored.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Michelle is a shinner and she’s gone to the top here. Conor Murphy is a kxxxxx and he has even gone to the top. Beat that. We allow kxxxers to the top

How long did you try to exclude them? How did they 'get to the top'? You changed the election system, you gerrymandered, you kicked and screamed NEVER NEVER NEVER and we are we are.
Heather Humphrey's and many many I don't know and don't care what religion they are, run my country.

*And what are the xxxxx's about?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Partition was democratically accepted by the Irish Dail which approved the Treaty, subsequently the Irish people voted for the GFA which copperfastened partition in modern times.

Sad to see the democratic will of the people being ignored.

Under threat of 'immediate and terrible war' by a bully. The GFA asked for acceptance of the will of the majority, nothing more. It did not ask for acceptance of partition and actually gave the right to aspire to unity. You should read it some time.