Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on?

downcow

declanflynn wrote: »

Dem Catholics are horid people

Please don't sectarianise it, it only illuminates how you think.
I think the Catholics in the SDLP, Alliance, UUP and DUP seem to have acted fine. It is the shinners, whatever their religion that keep dragging us back

Hubertj

What do people make of the tweet by the SF TD Brian Stanley about some IRA ambushes 100 years ago? I’ve never heard of him before but I don’t think it is a good example to set in modern Ireland. Whilst he is a TD in the Republic it doesn’t really shine a good light on SF

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nG0UvO7xi0

You should take a look at this documentary, it might help disabuse you of your Paisleyite views.

I got a bit bored after 3 mins. The great and the good in Dublin making sure they don't rock the boat. I also don't know why you are sectarianism it. It was the unionists that were driven out, what some rich CofI Dubliner thinks is interesting but not relevant to the ulster scots who suffered. Mind you even they seem to think their parents were discriminated against - that was a surprise to me as i thought they would be left alone as the were not unionists

downcow

Hubertj wrote: »

What do people make of the tweet by the SF TD Brian Stanley about some IRA ambushes 100 years ago? I’ve never heard of him before but I don’t think it is a good example to set in modern Ireland. Whilst he is a TD in the Republic it doesn’t really shine a good light on SF

I am fairly certain that most unionists up north give most people in ROI a by ball on this. We have lived with the shinners masks slipping almost daily so I think we just feel, well sure thats what the shinners believe.

Mind you can you imagine if a unionist MP said something similar about Bloody Sunday?

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/arlene-foster-write-dail-chair-over-sinn-fein-tds-shameful-tweet-about-ira-attacks-3051692

declanflynn

downcow wrote: »

Please don't sectarianise it, it only illuminates how you think.
I think the Catholics in the SDLP, Alliance, UUP and DUP seem to have acted fine. It is the shinners, whatever their religion that keep dragging us back

United Ireland soon
Scotland will break away in the next 5 years and rejoin the EU
Wales to go down the same road,
Nothing left only little england the soon to be North Korea of Europe

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Mind you can you imagine if a unionist MP said something similar about Bloody Sunday?

Because shooting innocent people is the same the IRA targeting the Parachute Regiment who actually went on murder sprees in Derry and Belfast?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am fairly certain that most unionists up north give most people in ROI a by ball on this. We have lived with the shinners masks slipping almost daily so I think we just feel, well sure thats what the shinners believe.

Mind you can you imagine if a unionist MP said something similar about Bloody Sunday?

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/arlene-foster-write-dail-chair-over-sinn-fein-tds-shameful-tweet-about-ira-attacks-3051692

For 40 years, after covering the whole thing up with the assistance of the judiciary you pretended they deserved to die on the streets. I think youse have done enough on that front tbh.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Because shooting innocent people is the same the IRA targeting the Parachute Regiment who actually went on murder sprees in Derry and Belfast?

believe it or not i always felt almost more sorry for young mainland british soldiers killed here than I did for locals. Most of them had no position or no interest in the politics of this place. They were just doing a job. Likewise the young lads in Warrington and the Birmingham pub bomb victims.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

believe it or not i always felt almost more sorry for young mainland british soldiers killed here than I did for locals.

Of course you did, especially the murdering Paras.

Most of them had no position or no interest in the politics of this place.

I'm sure if most of them had been aware of the rotten sectarian regime they were sent to defend they'd have been unsure of what side they should be on.

Solutionking

downcow wrote: »

I am fairly certain that most unionists up north give most people in ROI a by ball on this. We have lived with the shinners masks slipping almost daily so I think we just feel, well sure thats what the shinners believe.

Mind you can you imagine if a unionist MP said something similar about Bloody Sunday?

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/arlene-foster-write-dail-chair-over-sinn-fein-tds-shameful-tweet-about-ira-attacks-3051692

It's nothing new. This is not the first time, Kingsmill, "up da ra" etc
It is a constant stream. Yet you have the excuse brigade on here.

Hubertj

downcow wrote: »

I am fairly certain that most unionists up north give most people in ROI a by ball on this. We have lived with the shinners masks slipping almost daily so I think we just feel, well sure thats what the shinners believe.

Mind you can you imagine if a unionist MP said something similar about Bloody Sunday?

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/arlene-foster-write-dail-chair-over-sinn-fein-tds-shameful-tweet-about-ira-attacks-3051692

I think whether someone is nationalist or unionist they have to recognise this was a very stupid thing to tweet. It’s clearly the way he feels but that makes me wonder if he is fit to hold office. For there to be progress this crap needs to be consigned to history but I don’t mean forgotten about. It definitely shouldn’t be celebrated as this loser did.

Dyr

Hubertj wrote: »

What do people make of the tweet by the SF TD Brian Stanley about some IRA ambushes 100 years ago? I’ve never heard of him before but I don’t think it is a good example to set in modern Ireland. Whilst he is a TD in the Republic it doesn’t really shine a good light on SF

Only shameful thing is that he deleted it

SF are such wimps now

FrancieBrady

Hubertj wrote: »

I think whether someone is nationalist or unionist they have to recognise this was a very stupid thing to tweet. It’s clearly the way he feels but that makes me wonder if he is fit to hold office. For there to be progress this crap needs to be consigned to history but I don’t mean forgotten about. It definitely shouldn’t be celebrated as this loser did.

Consign it all to history then.

1916, WoI, Civil War, Battle of the Boyne, WW1 and 2.

Getting outraged because someone mentions a war/conflict is hypocritical otherwise.

Hubertj

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Consign it all to history then.

1916, WoI, Civil War, Battle of the Boyne, WW1 and 2.

Getting outraged because someone mentions a war/conflict is hypocritical otherwise.

Do you think it is appropriate for a sitting TD to celebrate people being murdered? It’s not about politics, it’s just wrong.

FrancieBrady

Hubertj wrote: »

Do you think it is appropriate for a sitting TD to celebrate people being murdered? It’s not about politics, it’s just wrong.

TD's do that everytime the celebrate the foundation of this state. Real people died so that could happen. No different to how people feel about the most recent conflict/war.

Hubertj

We’ll agree to disagree.

declanflynn

downcow wrote: »

believe it or not i always felt almost more sorry for young mainland british soldiers killed here than I did for locals. Most of them had no position or no interest in the politics of this place. They were just doing a job. Likewise the young lads in Warrington and the Birmingham pub bomb victims.

Do tans have a lower IQ than the European average

Annd9

Hqrry113 wrote: »

They'd rather sign that than have mortar bombs flying into downing street while they're having their meetings.

Hubertj wrote: »

Do you think it is appropriate for a sitting TD to celebrate people being murdered? It’s not about politics, it’s just wrong.

I'd agree Tweeting about Warrenpoint is out of order but anything regarding the war of Independence is fair game . Imagine people being outraged by tweets about the D-day landings or other operations during WW1/2?

Like it or not the British establishment were our version of the Germans , something a lot of people fail to grasp . My favourite is the line "the Irish would be speaking German if it wasn't for us plucky Brits " while not seeing the irony in that statement regarding our native language .

Anyway back to the topic and question I've asked multiple times without an answer . If The north is a success why are so many people crossing the border to work ? From my experience on Building sites the last few years 25/30 % of the lads are crossing the border (that percentage gets higher the further north you go) seems strange if opportunities are a plenty up North .

downcow

Annd9 wrote: »

I'd agree Tweeting about Warrenpoint is out of order but anything regarding the war of Independence is fair game . Imagine people being outraged by tweets about the D-day landings or other operations during WW1/2?

Like it or not the British establishment were our version of the Germans , something a lot of people fail to grasp . My favourite is the line "the Irish would be speaking German if it wasn't for us plucky Brits " while not seeing the irony in that statement regarding our native language .

Anyway back to the topic and question I've asked multiple times without an answer . If The north is a success why are so many people crossing the border to work ? From my experience on Building sites the last few years 25/30 % of the lads are crossing the border (that percentage gets higher the further north you go) seems strange if opportunities are a plenty up North .

Where can I start. What a bigoted blinkers post.

I thought you would be ashamed of your countrymen, republicans and ira on the disgraceful pro-nazis and anti-Jewish behaviour.
In 1940 the IRA leadership issued a statement outlining its position on the war. The statement made clear that if ‘German forces should land in Ireland, they will land . . . as friends. There publication also stated that Jews were bullies and like the English.

Your guesstimate claims between 50,000 & 100,000 people from NI are working on Roi buildings sites. What a ludicrous statement And not a single quote or stat to back it up.
The biggest laugh of all is that you are claiming ni failure because of how many work elsewhere. I wish I had stats for how many Irish people are living and working in my nation. I would conservatively guess that it is at least 10 times how many move the other direction.
Can we apply you measure of success/failure to ROI??????

downcow

declanflynn wrote: »

Do tans have a lower IQ than the European average

What are ‘tans’

downcow

Beltby wrote: »

It will be interesting to see which region of the uk gets the vaccine last. I don't know which one it will be, but it will just be interesting.

Just to keep you updated beltby.
Irish government is saying no vaccines in Ireland until 2021
NI assembly is saying vaccine rollout in NI expected to begin in 2 weeks.
Watch this space as this will be an important measure on the success or otherwise of our two wee places.
We constantly get health service claims on here with nothing to support them. This will be a very clear measure.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Where can I start. What a bigoted blinkers post.

I thought you would be ashamed of your countrymen, republicans and ira on the disgraceful pro-nazis and anti-Jewish behaviour.
In 1940 the IRA leadership issued a statement outlining its position on the war. The statement made clear that if ‘German forces should land in Ireland, they will land . . . as friends. There publication also stated that Jews were bullies and like the English.

World War 2 would never have happened at all if you guys weren't smoozing (from the royals down to business) with the Germans and standing idly by as they re-armed themselves in direct contravention of the Treaty of Versailles.

Your guesstimate claims between 50,000 & 100,000 people from NI are working on Roi buildings sites. What a ludicrous statement And not a single quote or stat to back it up.
The biggest laugh of all is that you are claiming ni failure because of how many work elsewhere. I wish I had stats for how many Irish people are living and working in my nation. I would conservatively guess that it is at least 10 times how many move the other direction.
Can we apply you measure of success/failure to ROI??????

Where did the poster guess those numbers?

There are anywhere up to 30,000 cross border 'official' workers and probably the same again in the black economy.

Whilst there are no definitive data on the number of commuters who cross the Ireland-Northern
Ireland border to work, based on the available estimates the Centre for Cross Border Studies’ Border
People project suggests between 23,000 and 30,000 people are cross-border workers

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Just to keep you updated beltby.
Irish government is saying no vaccines in Ireland until 2021
NI assembly is saying vaccine rollout in NI expected to begin in 2 weeks.
Watch this space as this will be an important measure on the success or otherwise of our two wee places.
We constantly get health service claims on here with nothing to support them. This will be a very clear measure.

Not according to the BBC and the eh...Health Service.

GPs in Northern Ireland are planning to deliver Covid-19 vaccines for people aged over 80 who do not live in care homes from 4 January.


A letter sent to GP practices said "there is a need to plan for the earliest possible commencement" of the programme.

The letter, first reported in The Irish News, was issued by the Health and Social Care Board (HSCB).

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55114852

The situation here:

Health Minister Stephen Donnelly says Ireland could begin vaccinating people against Covid-19 in January.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40104185.html

All rollouts are predicated on vaccines passing testing.

Annd9

downcow wrote: »

Where can I start. What a bigoted blinkers post.

I thought you would be ashamed of your countrymen, republicans and ira on the disgraceful pro-nazis and anti-Jewish behaviour.
In 1940 the IRA leadership issued a statement outlining its position on the war. The statement made clear that if ‘German forces should land in Ireland, they will land . . . as friends. There publication also stated that Jews were bullies and like the English.

Your guesstimate claims between 50,000 & 100,000 people from NI are working on Roi buildings sites. What a ludicrous statement And not a single quote or stat to back it up.
The biggest laugh of all is that you are claiming ni failure because of how many work elsewhere. I wish I had stats for how many Irish people are living and working in my nation. I would conservatively guess that it is at least 10 times how many move the other direction.
Can we apply you measure of success/failure to ROI??????

I am absolutely ashamed of some of the views held towards Jewish refugees landing in Ireland during the war and if you investigated a little more you would see the republican movement were split between those views . I have also never stated my views towards the IRA so not sure why you brought that up .Thankfully we did not place them in internment camps or deport them unlike our neighbors .

As of 2018 figures we had roughly 150,000 people employed in construction , my point of 25/30% of those people being from the north is simply my own experience . Granted I don't have any official figures but seeing as most are self employed or (RCT) it would be hard to get exact figures. 30-40,000 seems to be a reasonable guess though .

I never once stated the ROI is a success ? Far from it actually but this thread is about the north . I would guess (and it is a guess) that %wise there are far fewer people commuting South-North as opposed to North-South . Emigration in the south is a totally different scenario which can be discussed elsewhere .

declanflynn

downcow wrote: »

What are ‘tans’

So ye do have a lower IQ

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

What are ‘tans’

Possibly someone who goes into Crooke [sic] Park to murder innocent men, women and children.

---

I suppose, could "Tan" be affectation at this point in some circumstances?

downcow

Annd9 wrote: »

I am absolutely ashamed of some of the views held towards Jewish refugees landing in Ireland during the war and if you investigated a little more you would see the republican movement were split between those views . I have also never stated my views towards the IRA so not sure why you brought that up .Thankfully we did not place them in internment camps or deport them unlike our neighbors .

As of 2018 figures we had roughly 150,000 people employed in construction , my point of 25/30% of those people being from the north is simply my own experience . Granted I don't have any official figures but seeing as most are self employed or (RCT) it would be hard to get exact figures. 30-40,000 seems to be a reasonable guess though .

I never once stated the ROI is a success ? Far from it actually but this thread is about the north . I would guess (and it is a guess) that %wise there are far fewer people commuting South-North as opposed to North-South . Emigration in the south is a totally different scenario which can be discussed elsewhere .

As I have said several times the term failure or success is very subjective. I accept your premise that a good way to go is to compare to another.
I think your figures of Northern Ireland people travelling to work in building sites in the Republic of Ireland is ridiculous, but since you have zero evidence other than a hunch it will be hard to disprove.

When you compare Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland, one big problem is that you are comparing a small region of the nation, with an entire nation. If you wish to use your method of deciding who is the greater success, and you would like to compare our nation with your nation, I would suggest that there is a very significant number more Republic of Ireland residents who moved to my nation, the UK, to find work. If you think this is not true then certainly I can look for stats. So using your rule this would suggest that my nation is much more successful than your nation, or you nation is a greater failure than mine.

I also do not know why you are upset about you challenging me that my nation is comparable to Nazi Germany. Another ludicrous statement not based on any fact. My nation took on Germany while your nation sat aside and reaped the benefits. To make matters worse, some of your countryfolk collaborated with the Nazis. Of course, thankfully, there were a much greater number of your countryfolk who volunteered to fight alongside our nation to defeat Nazism - it would be nice if your government had done the same

A little quirk I have just noticed. I use dictation software, and during that last post each time I referred to ‘your nation’ my computer typed ‘urination’.
Did it need corrected? I don’t know, but I corrected it anyhow

saabsaab

A British spy working in Dublin in WWII said that 140 IRA men in the Curragh had declared they were anti-fascist. He also stated that De Valera was Britain's best friend in Ireland and the best policy would be to end partition.



Anyway what would our taking an active part meant? The war shortened by a few hours/days? At the cost of 10 or 20 thousand more Irish lives and our eastern cities bombed.

downcow

saabsaab wrote: »

A British spy working in Dublin in WWII said that 140 IRA men in the Curragh had declared they were anti-fascist. He also stated that De Valera was Britain's best friend in Ireland and the best policy would be to end partition.



Anyway what would our taking an active part meant? The war shortened by a few hours/days? At the cost of 10 or 20 thousand more Irish lives and our eastern cities bombed.

Haha. A british spy once told me......

And
You are probably right, sure why would you take any risks to play a part in ending racism when all the other mugs in Europe will do the dying for you and they can have their cities bombed. Shameful

I have huge admiration for those from ROI who ignored your attitude and payed the ultimate sacrifice LWF

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

If you wish to use your method of deciding who is the greater success, and you would like to compare our nation with your nation, I would suggest that there is a very significant number more Republic of Ireland residents who moved to my nation, the UK, to find work.

The UK isn't a nation, the Irish are. The way it's going the last people on Earth who'll describe themselves as 'British only' will be Unionists (former Unionists in a United Ireland) despite not having lived in Britain for centuries.