Woman pushed into Royal Canal

amadangomor

bubblypop wrote: »

These men were assaulted just minding their own business. You believe that people should turn a blind eye to that, should ignore the wrongdoing & look after themselves.
Well I got one won't stand by & watch innocent people get assaulted.
Nor will I watch youngsters doing wrong. That is why they feel they are untouchable, because society treats them like that.
Hide away in case they are seen by kids, with no respect for society. Do you think that by allowing them to do whatever they want that they will somehow change?

If the guards are not interested in delivering justice I wouldn't see a problem with these scobes getting taken out by a group of civilians with bats etc. Live by the sword and all that

kenmm

amadangomor wrote: »

If the guards are not interested in delivering justice I wouldn't see a problem with these scobes getting taken out by a group of civilians with bats etc. Live by the sword and all that

Well the guards don't "deliver justice" anyway, but regardless - what is the scale?


What crimes do we allow a quick beating for? Who gets selected to be a bat holder? I'm excited, this could be good for Dublin - can I get a bat?

I seen a guy throw rubbish on the street the other day - that annoys me like fu(k - he would get a batting for sure.

whisky_galore

amadangomor wrote: »

If the guards are not interested in delivering justice I wouldn't see a problem with these scobes getting taken out by a group of civilians with bats etc. Live by the sword and all that

Maybe they could get fücked into the canal and see if they like it? See if they learned how to swim?

joseywhales

kenmm wrote: »

All these tough guys, particularly those that are parents -

If I seen your child being a bit rude or some minor offence - it is ok if I give them a small dig or slap? I obviously wouldn't to hard for the minor stuff.


This does not condone in any way what the video shows - I am just trying to establish the boundaries here:

Cheeky to shop assistant/ showing off in front of friends - quick slap
Fighting/ attacking someone/ maybe some light shoplifting - good hard punch
Something like in this post - hard beating/ kicks to the face allowed


What is the scale?

I mean if I had been caught shoplifting my dad's reaction would have been worse than some fella giving me one hard dig. In fairness he was a bit of a softy, I've seen him throw my brother over a wall but he wouldn't strike you. But the following weeks would be torturous, no freedom, school and home, no TV, no socialising. One belt and a sharp pain for a few minutes is actually getting off lightly.

I think that's the problem, parents are too lazy to correct their kids, giving them a belt isn't going to change them.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Tazz T wrote: »

Nope. I've lived here for ten years. This occurred in the same stretch while they are also present in Tolka park, literally a couple of hundred yards away. These 'biker' gangs are well known in the area. This is not an isolated incident. As well as frequent antisocial behaviour such as this along the canal, they've been flagrantly shoplifting from local stores and smashing windows. And they're getting 'braver', because they know the gards can't touch them, but anyone who tries to take them on will be arrested.

amadangomor wrote: »

?? Tolka valley park is less than 2km from Ashtown.

She was walking between Ashtown and Castleknock.

I have also lived in Ashtown in the past. Ashtown and Castleknock are about 3kms apart and Tolka Valley Park is even further from Castleknock again, around 5kms at the park’s western edge. Even a few kms is a lot in a city.

I knew all this from having lived in the area but google maps confirms it all. The poster said Tolka Valley Park was “not far” from the 12th lock. They’re actually pretty far from each other in city terms.

Grab All Association

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-fractured-teenagers-skull-with-hurley-in-revenge-attack-has-sentence-increased-38585776.html

What happens when you stand up to these types

Judge O'Sullivan said he accepted that the injured party had attempted to strike Curtis with a plank, but missed.

suicide_circus

Grab All Association wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-fractured-teenagers-skull-with-hurley-in-revenge-attack-has-sentence-increased-38585776.html

What happens when you stand up to these types

The type of f*cking disgraceful judgement that gives rise to scrotes acting with impunity.

Thelonious Monk

Grab All Association wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-fractured-teenagers-skull-with-hurley-in-revenge-attack-has-sentence-increased-38585776.html

What happens when you stand up to these types

Still though. If everyone stood up to them this sh*t wouldn't happen as much and less people would be harmed. I can't see how people can be critical of these people's bravery. Fair play to them.

mick087

It looks like a group was making fun of this lady and 1 maybe 2 of the group ran forward and pushed her in the canal.
Was it a racist attack or was it a group of youths hanging out thinking they was funny.
My guess would be no matter who was there they would of been called names and pushed in the canal.

If myself had of stood up to them and i was pushed into the canal would i make the news?

What they did was wrong dangerous and immature. I would say the one who pushed the woman in the canal has some serious issues that need addressing now rather than later.

mick087

mick087 wrote: »

It looks like a group was making fun of this lady and 1 maybe 2 of the group ran forward and pushed her in the canal.
Was it a racist attack or was it a group of youths hanging out thinking they was funny.
My guess would be no matter who was there they would of been called names and pushed in the canal.

If myself had of stood up to them and i was pushed into the canal would i make the news?

What they did was wrong dangerous and immature. I would say the one who pushed the woman in the canal has some serious issues that need addressing now rather than later.

Making fun of her in a particularly racist way... You also seem to be reducing it to "boys will be boys" in terms of the harassment.

Tea drinker

kenmm wrote: »

All these tough guys, particularly those that are parents -

If I seen your child being a bit rude or some minor offence - it is ok if I give them a small dig or slap? I obviously wouldn't to hard for the minor stuff.


This does not condone in any way what the video shows - I am just trying to establish the boundaries here:

Cheeky to shop assistant/ showing off in front of friends - quick slap
Fighting/ attacking someone/ maybe some light shoplifting - good hard punch
Something like in this post - hard beating/ kicks to the face allowed


What is the scale?

Better off giving the parents a few digs in front of the kids. You don't want to be standing in front of a judge how he just doesn't understand why you were beating kids.

mick087

Deleted User wrote: »

Making fun of her in a particularly racist way... You also seem to be reducing it to "boys will be boys" in terms of the harassment.

Maybe this situation a meeting between the victim and the accused might be in order The lady could explain how they made her feel and the youths could explain why they thought it was funny.
Boys will be boys yes i would say that but i would not say this is such an occasion. What happened was not good at all and as i already stated the chap that pushed her in, i believe has issues that need sorting out now not when its to late.

amadangomor

mick087 wrote: »

Maybe this situation a meeting between the victim and the accused might be in order The lady could explain how they made her feel and the youths could explain why they thought it was funny.
Boys will be boys yes i would say that but i would not say this is such an occasion. What happened was not good at all and as i already stated the chap that pushed her in, i believe has issues that need sorting out now not when its to late.

I probably would have thought this way when I was 18 and had little life experience.

These little ****s don't give a fk and no constructive intervention will work. They use violence and the threat of violence to intimidate people.

This sadly is the only language they understand and needs to be employed to stop this madness of teenagers ruling the roost over society.

Thelonious Monk

It's mad that people are so keen to point out that they are not being racist, just normal scumbags. She was giving talking back to them because they gave her racist abuse. Normal scumbags tend to be racists. It's part of their package. They hate anyone or anything different. Like racist rednecks in the US or Russian skinheads etc.
You don't get a pass on being racist just because you're a f*cking little knacker too.

Bobblehats

whisky_galore wrote: »

Maybe they could get fücked into the canal and see if they like it? See if they learned how to swim?

I’ve been in it, unintentionally. Not much of a swimmer myself but you just sort of bob back up to the top and pull yourself out - shrug your shoulders and trudge home. Squelch... squelch.... squelch......

mick087

amadangomor wrote: »

I probably would have thought this way when I was 18 and had little life experience.

These little ****s don't give a fk and no constructive intervention will work. They use violence and the threat of violence to intimidate people.

This sadly is the only language they understand and needs to be employed to stop this madness of teenagers ruling the roost over society.

But why dont they give a fk?

Kivaro

Deleted User wrote: »

Making fun of her in a particularly racist way... You also seem to be reducing it to "boys will be boys" in terms of the harassment.

Of course there was a racial element to this incident, and in my opinion it should be reflected in sentencing if the perpetrators ever see a court room.

There is a bit of irony here though when the "boys will be boys" excuse was actually used by some posters on other threads when there were incidents involving black gangs e.g. people terrorised on the Luas, stabbing events etc., even when the gang members filmed themselves screaming racial epithets at their white victims. There were actually posters who said that it was just teenagers being teenagers.

So there needs to be an agreement in Irish society that if racial abuse is used, then it should be classified as a racial incident; irrespective of the colour of the perpetrator.

bmc58

Deleted User wrote: »

They won't be laughing when surrounded in the clink by hardened criminals. Law needs to come down like a ton of bricks on pond scum, no suspended sentences after repeat offences.

They'll hardly end up in jail.Mothers in court bawling their eyes out,lawyers pleading how innocent little Johnnie is and how out of character it is for him.Poor woman who was pushed into the canal will be forgotten.€100 to the Court Poor Box and all is forgiven.

JP Liz V1

dan1895 wrote: »

They were racially abusing the woman before throwing her in a canal. How is that not rascist?

A physical assault, should be charged with that

kenmm

kenmm wrote: »

Well the guards don't "deliver justice" anyway, but regardless - what is the scale?

What crimes do we allow a quick beating for? Who gets selected to be a bat holder? I'm excited, this could be good for Dublin - can I get a bat?

I seen a guy throw rubbish on the street the other day - that annoys me like fu(k - he would get a batting for sure.

We used to have such a scale as part of society. Parents disciplined their children through the combination of words, and corporal punishment. The Gardai did the same to those who engaged in crime. We had a society that did have a scale for dealing with those who broke the rules, but abuses occurred, and people wanted it to stop.

So, corporal punishment by parents, Gardai and teachers was stopped, but it wasn't replaced with anything.

Parents were told to raise their children in a better way, without the use of corporal punishment, but nobody taught those parents any better ways. Instead, they were just expected to know better. Same with teachers, or any other adult that encountered a child that needed discipline, or punishment. Apparently there was a better way, but nobody was offering a proven way to do so. A host of parenting books came out with all manner of ideas, but the reality was that most parents didn't know any effective manner of raising their children. Some did, many didn't. But, hey, at least, corporal punishment was mostly removed, and no abuse occurred. And yet, that abuse continued anyway.

As time went by, we had children who realised that adults couldn't punish them anymore. They had the power if they didn't feel guilt or shame from their actions. They could assault, or intimate adults and these adults wouldn't be comfortable with fighting back. After all, what kind of adult hits a child, even in defense? So, later, we had gangs of teens who would randomly pick older adults, just to beat them up, and few would resist.. after all, the consequences to those actions rarely caused too much grief, since the prison system is rather a joke for minors or young offenders.

The problem with your post is that it highlights a serious issue in our society. We can't implement any form of physical punishment to people because it might be abused. We're so afraid of being wrong, that we're paralyzed from dealing with the problems at hand. So, parents are blamed for not raising their children well, but we still haven't taught parents effective means of raising their children. We tie the hands of the Gardai in dealing with any kind of crime, for fear that they might abuse their positions, while also not providing better ways for them to behave.

We are basically complaining but not providing specific alternatives, except for vague desires, but expecting others to provide the answers... but each answer is shot down because it doesn't fit the Utopian idealistic future that's wanted.

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

We're so afraid of being wrong

We're "afraid" of being wrong for a very valid reason though and that's because of all the abuses that were carried out in the name of "punishment" and "discipline" in previous years.

Some on here have a bit of a rose tinted view of the past far too often. But the fact is we are where we are because it was the norm for for the most vicious kind of ritual abuse to take place behind certain closed doors by adults who would claim that sparing the rod "spoiled" the child and that abuse ran a very large gamut too.

We also know that beating ten shades out of someone rarely gets them to see the error of their ways. It, by and large, stiffens their resolve to get revenge and that revenge is usually taken out on a weaker victim.

There are no easy answers here and certainly all the big dick talk of beat them up etc, isn't the cure. We know this from experience.

kenmm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We used to have such a scale as part of society. Parents disciplined their children through the combination of words, and corporal punishment. The Gardai did the same to those who engaged in crime. We had a society that did have a scale for dealing with those who broke the rules, but abuses occurred, and people wanted it to stop.

So, corporal punishment by parents, Gardai and teachers was stopped, but it wasn't replaced with anything.

Parents were told to raise their children in a better way, without the use of corporal punishment, but nobody taught those parents any better ways. Instead, they were just expected to know better. Same with teachers, or any other adult that encountered a child that needed discipline, or punishment. Apparently there was a better way, but nobody was offering a proven way to do so. A host of parenting books came out with all manner of ideas, but the reality was that most parents didn't know any effective manner of raising their children. Some did, many didn't. But, hey, at least, corporal punishment was mostly removed, and no abuse occurred. And yet, that abuse continued anyway.

As time went by, we had children who realised that adults couldn't punish them anymore. They had the power if they didn't feel guilt or shame from their actions. They could assault, or intimate adults and these adults wouldn't be comfortable with fighting back. After all, what kind of adult hits a child, even in defense? So, later, we had gangs of teens who would randomly pick older adults, just to beat them up, and few would resist.. after all, the consequences to those actions rarely caused too much grief, since the prison system is rather a joke for minors or young offenders.

The problem with your post is that it highlights a serious issue in our society. We can't implement any form of physical punishment to people because it might be abused. We're so afraid of being wrong, that we're paralyzed from dealing with the problems at hand. So, parents are blamed for not raising their children well, but we still haven't taught parents effective means of raising their children. We tie the hands of the Gardai in dealing with any kind of crime, for fear that they might abuse their positions, while also not providing better ways for them to behave.

We are basically complaining but not providing specific alternatives, except for vague desires, but expecting others to provide the answers... but each answer is shot down because it doesn't fit the Utopian idealistic future that's wanted.

There are some elements of truth in that, but it's not an easy fix, and not by allowing a slap or two.

Or problems in society were not created by simply stopping corporal punishment, and to those that call for its return- it's naive to think that by allowing it again will simply make those problems go away.

Besides, I don't buy it that we had some golden society in the past, and it's only now we see this behaviour. It's a rose tinted yearning for a past that never was.

Breaking the cycle of scummy behaviour is needed (including support to show people a better way) as well as tough policing and enforcement of the current laws.

That requires a lot of hard work and investment and we aren't going to see that any time soon (for many reasons, but mainly because there is no want to fix these issues).

Galwayguy35

bubblypop wrote: »

These men were assaulted just minding their own business. You believe that people should turn a blind eye to that, should ignore the wrongdoing & look after themselves.
Well I got one won't stand by & watch innocent people get assaulted.
Nor will I watch youngsters doing wrong. That is why they feel they are untouchable, because society treats them like that.
Hide away in case they are seen by kids, with no respect for society. Do you think that by allowing them to do whatever they want that they will somehow change?

You might point out where I said people should turn a blind eye to someone being assaulted.

What I clearly said was if a person being shouted at and by a gang the best thing is to keep moving and not challenge them, lecturing them on the error of their ways won't get you anywhere but you seem to think otherwise so no point in me saying anything more on it.

Beechwoodspark

The number 1 priority is to get away to safety and then -preferably out of earshot- ring the guardai

Do not engage the gang on their terms - will not end well

This woman is lucky to have survived.

kenmm

kenmm wrote: »

There are some elements of truth in that, but it's not an easy fix, and not by allowing a slap or two.

I don't believe that there are any easy fixes, nor that having corporal punishment would be either. I don't think I said anywhere in my post that it would be.

There is a habit here to go to extremes. It's either apply it in it's entirety or to stop it completely. One or the other, and nothing in-between. I'd feel there is space for select usage of corporal punishment in society by parents, who have received training in being parents. Some teens need that kind of reinforcement so that they can realise that there are some boundaries that shouldn't be crossed.. and these same teens aren't going to respond to the soft approach.

The simple truth is that with rising costs, many parents just aren't at home enough to manage their children effectively, nor do they have the training in parenting to educate their children anyway. Steps should be made to counter that, such as providing training to parents in handling their children, and/or measures implemented to ensure children are monitored/raised while the parents are working.

Or problems in society were not created by simply stopping corporal punishment, and to those that call for its return- it's naive to think that by allowing it again will simply make those problems go away.

Again, I didn't say anything of the sort. Just as it's naive to believe that the removal of corporal punishment wasn't a significant factor in the rise of aggression and criminality among young people. What has corporal punishment been replaced with? And has it been more effective?

Besides, I don't buy it that we had some golden society in the past, and it's only now we see this behaviour. It's a rose tinted yearning for a past that never was.

Nor did I suggest any sort of golden society. This is the problem with this kind of topic. Posters interject ideas that weren't even suggested, and then argue as if they were a given. Both yourself and Tony EH, have done so in response to my post.

Breaking the cycle of scummy behaviour is needed (including support to show people a better way) as well as tough policing and enforcement of the current laws.

That requires a lot of hard work and investment and we aren't going to see that any time soon (for many reasons, but mainly because there is no want to fix these issues).

Agreed.

There's no desire to implement the hard measures that would be needed to police our youths, because that would require people to acknowledge that the "soft" approach only works on children/teens who wouldn't have been a problem anyway.

Pkiernan

There is a very easy fix.

Lock up the dirtbags. If underage then stop all welfare payment to the animals that bred them.

kenmm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

snip

Sorry klaz, I didn't mean my whole post directed at you.. I was on mobile and couldn't be bothered splitting it.

I never generally to those who say a few slaps and 'back in my day' etc

The one thing I disagree with tho is, hitting kids at all (even at home) is always the worst. No matter what parenting skills present.

I fully expect this to be interpreted by some as 'soft', 'left', 'snowflake' or some other comment which detracts from the topic.

Edit: klaz- wasn't all directed at you, sorry again. To summarise- I accept you recognise it's a multi faceted problem. I disagree with some if what you say regarding how to fix.

kenmm

Pkiernan wrote: »

. If underage then stop all welfare payment to the animals that bred them.

And if the parents are not in receipt of welfare?

Also how are you supposed to show children right from wrong without any income?

Thelonious Monk

Pkiernan wrote: »

There is a very easy fix.

Lock up the dirtbags. If underage then stop all welfare payment to the animals that bred them.

So stopping payments will make them behave better?

ThunbergsAreGo

kenmm wrote: »

And if the parents are not in receipt of welfare?

Also how are you supposed to show children right from wrong without any income?

Fine them.