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Woman pushed into Royal Canal

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    #482
    SlowMotion321
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭SlowMotion321


    kenmm wrote: »
    What crimes do we allow a quick beating for? Who gets selected to be a bat holder? I'm excited, this could be good for Dublin - can I get a bat?


    Talkin' in class - That's a paddlin!

    No Homework - That's a paddlin!

    Pushing people in to the canal - You better believe that's a paddlin!


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    #483
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kenmm wrote: »
    Sorry klaz, I didn't mean my whole post directed at you.. I was on mobile and couldn't be bothered splitting it.

    I never generally to those who say a few slaps and 'back in my day' etc

    The one thing I disagree with tho is, hitting kids at all (even at home) is always the worst. No matter what parenting skills present.

    I fully expect this to be interpreted by some as 'soft', 'left', 'snowflake' or some other comment which detracts from the topic.

    Edit: klaz- wasn't all directed at you, sorry again. To summarise- I accept you recognise it's a multi faceted problem. I disagree with some if what you say regarding how to fix.

    Ahh well, I never use the term snowflake or such about posters and their opinions. I'll argue what I disagree with, and agree with the rest. I appreciate your viewpoint, since it is reasonable. However, to say that hitting kids/teens is always wrong, ignores the fact that some people grow up warped. Whether it's from their upbringing, their environment, or some personality disorders, they don't conform to society and it's rules. Others will only respect force, and will prey on those who fail to stand up to them. People like to ignore that physical punishment can be the only way in dealing with some people, and also ignore that the soft approach doesn't work with them.

    Those who argue against corporal punishment tend to lean towards absolutes, in that it's always wrong to do so. I prefer to think that it should be used as a last resort, but still a tool in the arsenal for parents or adults in dealing with teens who fail to respond to the other methods of control/discipline.

    In any case, my original post was more about asking what has been provided to parents/adults in dealing with teens instead of physical punishment? Not vague references to better parenting but specifics, and whether there has been any determined efforts to impart this better method to those parents?


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    #484
    onlinenerd
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭onlinenerd


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    That doesn't mean it's racist.these scum are as likely to attack me for wearing glasses and call me 4 eyes

    True these lads are feral and don't need a reason to pick on anyone but in this situation they said something racist and and so are branded racists. If they robbed a shop and killed someone, you would hardly call them thieves, they are murderers.


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    #485
    onlinenerd
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭onlinenerd


    kenmm wrote: »
    And if the parents are not in receipt of welfare?

    Also how are you supposed to show children right from wrong without any income?

    This a big question for modern society because if the parents dont know what are good morals the how in the world can we show it our offspring what is right an wrong


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    #486
    SlowMotion321
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭SlowMotion321


    I have heard the case made before that parents should be held to account legally for the actions of their children, kids don't lick these attitudes off the stones! This is not the sole answer, a multi faceted approach needs to be taken to deal with the issue. The old saying goes that it takes a village to raise a child, none of my neighbors would have given me a slap when I was a kid if i did wrong but you would be damn sure they would let my parents know about it and expect them to deal with it. One size does not fit all, but just leaving it to the Gards and our almost useless judiciary is certainly not the answer on it's own, but if some parents don't give a **** what their kids get up to then yes they should shoulder a significant amount of the responsibility and be treated accordingly!


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    #487
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    A group of 10 of so young adults have been running riot here in the centre of town this evening and not a Garda car in sight. The Garda station is 5 minutes away by foot.

    I was going to give them a call and I didn't. I ask myself why, and the reason is I get the feeling the Guards will just think I'm some busybody and they arn't too bothered about this kind of low-level social disruption.

    These people are the town knackers, they are not travellers, and I don't think the term knacker was ever meant to refer to travellers in the first place. But somehow you can't use the term anymore because a/ it's racist, and b/ how dare you use terms that put ppl down as if you are somehow better than anyone else. Well I'm sorry, but ppl are better than other ppl. If you don't believe that then we're doomed.


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    #488
    SlowMotion321
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭SlowMotion321


    AllForIt wrote: »
    A group of 10 of so young adults have been running riot here in the centre of town this evening and not a Garda car in sight. The Garda station is 5 minutes away by foot.

    I was going to give them a call and I didn't. I ask myself why, and the reason is I get the feeling the Guards will just think I'm some busybody and they arn't too bothered about this kind of low-level social disruption.

    These people are the town knackers, they are not travellers, and I don't think the term knacker was ever meant to refer to travellers in the first place. But somehow you can't use the term anymore because a/ it's racist, and b/ how dare you use terms that put ppl down as if you are somehow better than anyone else. Well I'm sorry, but ppl are better than other ppl. If you don't believe that then we're doomed.

    Pedant alert: A knacker was someone you brought your old worn out horse to and they would give you a few quid for it, the horse was then slaughtered and it's remains (bones I think) were rendered down into glue which he then sold! : Pedant alert.

    So now knacker refers to someone who is kind of unsavoury, where the reference to travellers comes from i don't really know!


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    #489
    celticWario
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭celticWario


    "Don't try to chastise children or you are asking to be assaulted"


    Battered Spouse Syndrome, people have been conditioned to look at their feet and mind your own business, it's an attitude that permeates from these areas, don't be a rat, don't be a busybody, don't be telling parents how to raise their kids, then we wonder why we are where we are with these feral teens.


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    #490
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    SlowMotion321 wrote: »
    Pedant alert: A knacker was someone you brought your old worn out horse to and they would give you a few quid for it, the horse was then slaughtered and it's remains (bones I think) were rendered down into glue which he then sold! : Pedant alert.

    So now knacker refers to someone who is kind of unsavoury, where the reference to travellers comes from i don't really know!

    I wouldn't mind melting down some people to turn them in something more useful, like glue.


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    #491
    SlowMotion321
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭SlowMotion321


    AllForIt wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind melting down some people to turn them in something more useful, like glue.

    Soylent Green?


    Edit: younger folks may need to google!


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    #492
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,494 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    NasserShammaz wrote: »
    The parents of these vermin have no doubt seen the video of what their kids are like.

    Unfortunately we can only abort up until 26 weeks should be 26 years for all these skum.

    But as has been said nothing will happen to these cockroaches no consequences for anything in ireland just walk around dublin city centre a complete ****hole epidemic of skanks junkies dealers and skum... local salt of the earth skum....all paid for by the taxpayer...staycation my arse I wouldn't send a dog to this hole

    If I was a parent of a kid who did that, I saw the video, I’d be asking the kid wtf was going on... and on receipt of a non satisfactory answer the kid is in the car and I’m on the way with them to the local Garda station for them to make a statement/confession... that would ensure that a repeat performance wasnt happening...

    I remember when I was a kid, my uncle told me about when he was small, he took the wing mirror off a car on the street with his ball, he legged it home, said nada till the next day when his conscience got the better of him and said it to his mother... my granny had a strong dislike of the family who owned the car, but still she marched him down to their front door for him to apologize... he offered to cut their grass for six weeks to account for the damage which was acceptable...parents need to fûcking parent, kids need to learn to be accountable for their actions and behaviors.

    Parents need to parent. You can be loyal to your kids, up to a point. When they start assaulting people, throwing them in rivers... you’ve failed at parenting to a point... Garda station next stop,


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    #493
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    If I was a parent of a kid who did that, I saw the video, I’d be asking the kid wtf was going on... and on receipt of a non satisfactory answer the kid is in the car and I’m on the way with them to the local Garda station for them to make a statement/confession... that would ensure that a repeat performance wasnt happening...

    You're overlooking the part where you show up to the station, and the Gardai do not care. You're an inconvenience bringing him down to the station. And when it gets to a court (if ever) the Judge also doesn't care.

    Your son, who committed a fairly serious assault, will just get to see in person how indifferent the whole system is and that there's no punishment. This is what happens to them all eventually, and they realise they can do what they want. A normal person doesn't push someone into a canal. These wasters have been tormenting people for years and probably pushed many people into the canal, but there just wasn't a video of it.

    There has to be a systematic change, to include proper punishment, or we'll be having the same conversation for decades to come.


  • Options
    #494
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,494 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You're overlooking the part where you show up to the station, and the Gardai do not care. You're an inconvenience bringing him down to the station. And when it gets to a courtroom (if ever) the Judge also doesn't care.

    Your son, who committed a fairly serious assault, will just get to see in person how indifferent the whole system is and that there's no punishment. This is what happens to them all eventually, and they realise they can do what they want. A normal person doesn't push someone into a canal. These wasters have been tormenting people for years and probably pushed many people into the canal, but there just wasn't a video of it.

    There has to be a systematic change, to include proper punishment, or we'll be having the same conversation for decades to come.

    We can talk about Gardai and courts and I’m sharing your sentiments, but with video, a confession, an assault of that nature, as dreadful as many Gardai are...they’d have little wiggle room to let that get brushed under the carpet..


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    #495
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    I'd honestly love to say I'd disown my scumbag son if he did that to a woman.

    I'd be so ashamed I'd brought up someone that was capable of doing that.

    What an absolute fxxking filth scxmbag dirt, waste of life.

    Funny thing is a 'normal' or 'educated' young man normally wouldn't do this either, so more than likely if you showed up at their parents door they wouldn't care either.

    I guarantee you, these boys are capable of this then their parents probably laughed at it when they got home. "ha ha little paddy pushed a chinese wan into a lake, dats hilariouzz"

    Makes me sad really.


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    #496
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    We can talk about Gardai and courts and I’m sharing your sentiments, but with video, a confession, an assault of that nature, as dreadful as many Gardai are...they’d have little wiggle room to let that get brushed under the carpet..


    It's not carpet-brushing, though. That's the system.. there'll be no punishment, or anything that could be construed as a punishment, so the Gardai know they're wasting their time dealing with it from the word go.


  • Options
    #497
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,494 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's not carpet-brushing, though. That's the system.. there'll be no punishment, or anything that could be construed as a punishment, so the Gardai know they're wasting their time dealing with it from the word go.

    It’s carpet brushing. The Gardai are there to serve the public... the Gardai can’t worry about punishment. As frustrating as it must be for them to exercise their duties, work hard and the justice system not to back them or the victims of crime with suitable punishment... they can’t just turn around and say well... “fûck it, I’m not bothered”. Need to do their bit and not worry about courts.


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    #498
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    It’s carpet brushing. The Gardai are there to serve the public... the Gardai can’t worry about punishment. As frustrating as it must be for them to exercise their duties, work hard and the justice system not to back them or the victims of crime with suitable punishment... they can’t just turn around and say well... “fûck it, I’m not bothered”. Need to do their bit and not worry about courts.




    Absolutely agree. In a perfect world they would be that determined. In real life, though, they have no interest.


    Have you ever had to deal with them? Lovely people, and easy to get on with. Generally pleasant and a bit of a laugh. But professionally, they try to pass everything off as a 'civil matter' and there's an almost audible 'tut' and a huff when they have to do anything that's in any way difficult at all.


    'There wouldn't really be a whole lot we can do about that' should be the slogan on the side of the patrol cars.


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    #499
    wandererz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭wandererz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Absolutely agree. In a perfect world they would be that determined. In real life, though, they have no interest.


    Have you ever had to deal with them? Lovely people, and easy to get on with. Generally pleasant and a bit of a laugh. But professionally, they try to pass everything off as a 'civil matter' and there's an almost audible 'tut' and a huff when they have to do anything that's in any way difficult at all.


    'There wouldn't really be a whole lot we can do about that' should be the slogan on the side of the patrol cars.

    Yes. In real life i called them Saturday before last. At least 3 times.
    Informed them that a woman sounded in distress. They did nothing.

    Apparently all units were out on a major incident or emergency call and could not deal with this.
    Ridonculous!


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    #500
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wandererz wrote: »
    Yes. In real life i called them Saturday before last. At least 3 times.
    Informed them that a woman sounded in distress. They did nothing.

    Apparently all units were out on a major incident or emergency call and could not deal with this.
    Ridonculous!

    So you were informed that all units were dealing with a major incident & that there was not enough gardai to attend the call.
    And yet you still blame the gardai.
    It's their fault that there isn't enough of them?


  • Options
    #501
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    So stopping payments will make them behave better?

    only a fool thinks that these animals will change their behaviour, so may as well save some money for the tax payer.


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    #502
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    only a fool thinks that these animals will change their behaviour, so may as well save some money for the tax payer.

    Well if the more "deprived" areas have kids like this as is, they'd be even worse with less money I would have thought. Hard to swallow but it's true.
    The truth is it was even rougher around there in the 80s and 90s, when it was considerably poorer. You couldn't even drive down there never mind walk down there on your way to your job at Facebook. I often see foreign programmer looking types walking down Seville Place etc these days, they wouldn't get 10 feet into the kip 30 years ago.
    So I'm afraid taking money from them would probably only make matters worse.


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    #503
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    bubblypop wrote: »
    So you were informed that all units were dealing with a major incident & that there was not enough gardai to attend the call.
    And yet you still blame the gardai.
    It's their fault that there isn't enough of them?

    Seems to me the way to combat that is to exaggerate the extent of your story if you want them to serve and protect you or your community.


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    #504
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Well if the more "deprived" areas have kids like this as is, they'd be even worse with less money I would have thought. Hard to swallow but it's true.
    The truth is it was even rougher around there in the 80s and 90s, when it was considerably poorer. You couldn't even drive down there never mind walk down there on your way to your job at Facebook. I often see foreign programmer looking types walking down Seville Place etc these days, they wouldn't get 10 feet into the kip 30 years ago.
    So I'm afraid taking money from them would probably only make matters worse.

    I agree, but what exactly is a "foreign programmer looking type"? :)


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    #505
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    kenmm wrote: »
    I agree, but what exactly is a "foreign programmer looking type"? :)

    Laptop backpack, chinos, shoes from ECCO, maybe a fleece body warmer over a shirt... that kind of thing.


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    #506
    kenmm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭kenmm


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Laptop backpack, chinos, shoes from ECCO, maybe a fleece body warmer over a shirt... that kind of thing.

    Interesting - thanks (I mean genuinely - interested to see what the stereotype was these days!)


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    #507
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Laptop backpack, chinos, shoes from ECCO, maybe a fleece body warmer over a shirt... that kind of thing.

    Rimless glasses?


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    #508
    AlanG
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭AlanG


    Many of those asking for this to be dealt with by handing out a few slaps have a very similar mentality to those who carried out the attack. You believe people from a socio / demographic group you don’t associate with should be treated differently. If one of your kids got a beating from an adult just because they decided he / she deserved it then you would have a different tune.

    Back in the day you are harping back to there was regularly what would now be classed as riots along the canal from Ashtown down to Cross Guns. Those involved were most often from homes where a kid stepping out of line would get a slap for misbehaving.

    The stretch of the canal is way safer now and there is a lot less trouble from groups of kids than 30 years ago when many boys were thought that the answer to problems was violence. Back in those days there would have been almost no one walking along that stretch of canal on their own but now thousands of people do so with very few problems.


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    #509
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,494 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Absolutely agree. In a perfect world they would be that determined. In real life, though, they have no interest.


    Have you ever had to deal with them? Lovely people, and easy to get on with. Generally pleasant and a bit of a laugh. But professionally, they try to pass everything off as a 'civil matter' and there's an almost audible 'tut' and a huff when they have to do anything that's in any way difficult at all.


    'There wouldn't really be a whole lot we can do about that' should be the slogan on the side of the patrol cars.


    Yes, I’ve had that EXACT response. My phone stolen in hospital. Actually my relative was LAUGHED at by a Garda in the station while trying to report it... “haha look, there is no point in me taking that complaint as there is no CCTV in the wards, stuff goes missing there daily.” Then got thick when my relative said... “ well, I won’t be going anywhere until you DO take a complaint, so I’ll be standing here for the duration “... attitude changed considerably from an arrogant, glib and sneering cûnt to a toys out of the pram sulk merchant.


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    #510
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Well if the more "deprived" areas have kids like this as is, they'd be even worse with less money I would have thought. Hard to swallow but it's true.
    The truth is it was even rougher around there in the 80s and 90s, when it was considerably poorer. You couldn't even drive down there never mind walk down there on your way to your job at Facebook. I often see foreign programmer looking types walking down Seville Place etc these days, they wouldn't get 10 feet into the kip 30 years ago.
    So I'm afraid taking money from them would probably only make matters worse.
    But that's just the skangers being edged out, there's very few would have become programmers. The problem just moved or is being masked.
    Funny thing is the skangers deeply resent the foreigners coming in taking their job as a cloud arck e teck or CEO. And then expect to have the same lifestyle as people who work, so people who work should be treated with disdain for not giving them more money.
    Everyone should be working (community projects etc), no dole if you don't work. No one is being forced to work, same as people in regular jobs, feel free to not turn up on monday and not get paid.


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    #511
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,312 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Tea drinker wrote: »
    But that's just the skangers being edged out, there's very few would have become programmers. The problem just moved or is being masked.
    Funny thing is the skangers deeply resent the foreigners coming in taking their job as a cloud arck e teck or CEO. And then expect to have the same lifestyle as people who work, so people who work should be treated with disdain for not giving them more money.
    Everyone should be working (community projects etc), no dole if you don't work. No one is being forced to work, same as people in regular jobs, feel free to not turn up on monday and not get paid.

    They're not really being edged out of that area, they knocked down the flats in the 90s and put housing there for them. Now as the population grows they're given the nice apartments in the IFSC and Grand Canal Dock. I suppose there are just more professionals living nearby that might walk through the area that wouldn't have before. But there are loads and loads of kids around there and they'll continue to grow as they're given apartments in the area.
    The resentment is just generations of hating anyone different and thinking they're hard done by because they don't have as much money as other folk.


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