New self Build - TV distribution Help

dots104

Hi all,

I am building a new house and require some help with the distribution of tv through the house. I'm meeting the electrician soon and would like to know what i should be asking for. Im new to satellite tv as i've previously only had cable tv. I dont want sky as i think it way overpriced (not that cable was much better. Only with them for the good internet). Anyway i dont know where to start and what i should need.

First the requirements are
1) All points to have access to view all UK/Irish free TV channels
2 Ability to record channels simultaneously at two of the TV points
3) Sitting room, & Snug Main points - Other tv points in bedrooms
4) Ability to play recordings from any TV point
5) EPG available at recording TV point

What i've currently allowed for in the spec is 2x coax and 1x cat6 cable to each tv point. Does this allow for the above requirements? Is it possible to achieve above requirements

What else should i be asking to install for now?
What will i need in the 1 satellite dish & 1 Aerial
What type of splitter's should i be looking at?
What type of sat boxs should i be looking a etc
Do i need a sat box at each tv?

Any help would be much appreciated

Johnboy1951

First off I suggest you run two ethernet cables to all outlets. Cable is cheap and you have a fall back in case of some fault.
I have used dual outlets at each point (small extra cost) and was surprised how easily I found use for the second outlet.

Your requirements seems like a suitable candidate for distributing the media on Cat6/5e cable with the tuners centralised in a media press.
All recorded media can then be stored there with access to it from each outlet.
In addition access to the media (live & stored) is available to tablets, phones laptops etc.
A truly distributed set up, with little limitation.

This does require some effort on your part and if not at all comfortable doing it then maybe look for some combination of 'off the shelf' devices to try to fulfil your needs.

There are threads about this type of distribution set up in the HTPC section

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=643

This thread might give you some insight in how I dealt with some of the things that cropped up

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057826211

This is a pic of my present set up ....... the coax cables go only to the media press where the tuners are located, along with the ethernet switch and all the connections to the outlets ...... the client boxes use HDMI to the TVs ....

The Ayatolla

I did something similarly recently.

I ran a HDMI, 2x coax and 1x Cat5e to each TV point. These were all ran back to the attic to a designated spot.

The I had my Sky and internet modem installed in the living room. From there I ran another Coax, Cat5e and HDMI cable to the attic to supply a HDMI splitter, Sky Magic eye distribution and feed by ethernet switch. I also have an aerial in the attic which joins into the "magic eye" distribution to supply Saorview.

At every TV in the house, I have saorview, FTA satellite/Freesat and the ability watch Sky HD (same channel as what's on main TV). Each TV also has an ethernet wired to it for smart functionality etc.

The setup also paves the way for SkyQ down the line with the ethernet cables etc available at each TV. I'm using 'legacy' Sky HD at the moment.

I'd also look into wiring for a mesh wifi system with ethernet backhaul. Something like this. Space them out evenly around the house for one seamless Wifi network and zero-minimal blackspots / speed loss.

LenWoods

Hi,
around two years ago I installed my own setup for three bedrooms and the living room,

The quality of the cable also makes a difference in terms of signal and blocking out interference, Belden are a good manufacturer of quality cables, I've used Belden Webro WF100 twin sat cable to feed satellite and HD100 for the terrestrial aerial,
if your in or close to a town which may be likely to be getting virgin media in then you may also consider running a singe Belden 1694A RG6 cable to each of the rooms from the attic, and two in to the living room from somewhere at the front of the house,

in my opinion: for your new build home installation if you can get 5 x webro WF100 feeds two Belden 1694A and four Cat6 or Cat7 feeds all from the attic to your living room, you can install everything else yourself at a later date saving you a lot of money.
ideally a 2 inch pipe running from the living room straight up to the attic would conquer all potential future installs fit a brush plate over it in the house to prevent heat loss or spider entry.

anyway here's my install, I used pre-terminated CAT7 cables for the network,
i first started with removing the double doors between the kitchen and living room, with the plan of blocking it up and mounting the television on the wall to save space, i could then fit a sofa underneath the television,
with a cabinet in the corner containing all the sattelite box, wifi router etc.

i wanted to make the install future compatible where i could easily add more cables at a later date without much hassle,
so i purchased a 1.5" Plastic hose pipe from a local garden pond shop; its ribbed on the outside making it easier to plaster in or concrete,



I've chased out the floor and burried it in the wall and floor going from the corner of the living room in to the corner of the kitchen where it exits inside a plasterboard cavity which travels up to the floor of the hot-press,
i can then route cables through this pipe from the television in the living room all the way up to the attic.





see the white PVC trucking on the left side of the door frame there contains all cables feeding to and from the living room likened to the attic for distribution throughout the bedrooms.



back in the living room then for a moment; i purchased a 1" flexible drain pipe in woodies DIY and fished all the HDMi cables along with a C13 power cable, terrestrial feed and a Cat7 through the 1" pipe which i later presented to the builder to have it placed inside the wall prior to him installing the 1.5" insulated plasterboard.





when planning television installs on walls instead of fitting a bulky socket and plug at the rear; i always recommend fitting a C13 power cable and plug it in somewhere hidden, a C13 also known as a kettle cable, can be easily converted to a figure 8 with the use of an adaptor, so if you buy a sony Bravia and it takes a C13 plug it straight in, or if you buy a Samsung and it takes a figure 8 then fit one of these to your C13



back to the living room for a moment again then,
i had the PVC drain pipe fitted inside the wall where i can easily pull back the excess cable to the location on the left behind the future cabinet.





fitted sockets and F-type face plate manufactured by Schneider Electric these are "Clipsal Classic" feel like a beach pebble glossy polycarbonate sockets and switches, can fit RJ45, HDMI or RJ11 etc. in to the faceplate,





I've fitted five coaxial webro WF100 feeds to my living room from the attic, which i will now explain the reason for each.
two feeds are coming down from the satellite,
one feed is going up from the living room to the attic
one feed is coming down from the attic to the living room
one feed is coming down from the attic to the living room television.



now the reason for all those, well the two satellite are obvious enough, the one down and one up are like a train track loop is a way i like to explain it, this loop runs from the living room to the attic and back down to the living room again,
ive fitted two Edison HDMi modulators to this loop, one in the attic and one in the living room,
the train track runs through both of these HDMi modulators to allow me to add two channels to my terrestrial line up.
the train track loop then goes in to a 4 channel distribution amplifier where all of the terrestrial channels are sent to each room along with the broadcasts from both of the HDMI modulators,
which explains the fifth cable in the line, it goes in to the living room television containing all terrestrial and two HDMi broadcasts.



the HDMi modulator in the living room is linked to a blue-ray player, saves me purchasing a second player, i can broadcast the one in the living room on all televisions at the same time.
the HDMi modulator in the attic is linked to a CCTV system with the cameras fitted on the facia outside the house and storage recording unit hidden in the attic, i can view the cameras on any television at any time, tuned in along side RTE, or Virgin media 3

so in the attic then, ive run 3 x Cat7 cables from the wifi router in the living room up to the attic,
i then fitted a distribution panel to the neighboring wall inside the attic, with a Netgear GS305 metal cased LAN router, one dedicated to each bedroom, which enables the ability to isolate a room remotely by fitting a wifi socket to the power supply of the router, a great grounding tool lol

LenWoods

The living room plan isint fully complete, but I've purchased a cheap cabinet in ikea for the moment which I've cut a section out of the back to allow the cables to recess inside, hidden by an extra shelf which I've fitted vertically to hide the cables, to create a false back to the cabinet,
home telephone, satellite, virgin media and wifi hub all connected and linked throughout the house,
enough room under the tv for a sofa too.



in the bedrooms then; ive fitted some floating boxes tight to the ceiling to contain sky multiroom boxes which contain an old uk sky card for use as freeview, also put a virgin media multiroom box in there, both boxes have a CAT7 and C13 cable aswell as two satellite feeds and HDMi cables linked to the television on the other wall, all items are plugged in up in the attic with a timeclock fitted to the plug of the television which turns off the power at 20:00 until 10:00am the following morning.





another shot of the fold out cabinet desk there very cool





I've also fitted a CAT7 and HDMi connection down low next to the sockets for a games console or laptop connection in the future,

LenWoods

similar process in Bedroom 03 fitted floating boxes and connections in the wall.









bedroom 02

i used some 1" PVC flexi drain pipe and a rectangular PVC extraction pipe to house the cables on both sides of the chimney wall,
followed by cladding the neighboring wall with 1.5" insulated plasterboard, all devices are set on to of the freestanding wardrobe, i plan to fit them inside a built in wardrobe at a later date,













overall then to summarize,
in my opinion: for your new build home installation if you can get 5 x webro WF100 feeds two Belden 1694A and four Cat6 or Cat7 feeds all from the attic to your living room, you can install everything else yourself at a later date saving you a lot of money.
ideally a 2 inch pipe running from the living room straight up to the attic would conquer all potential future installs fit a brush plate over it in the house to prevent heat loss or spider entry.

Very nice work!

One question did you consider centralising everything as in just put all the boxes in the attic and feed them down to the rooms, blue ray in the attic etc so there is nothing in the rooms bar cabling to the TVs? Or did you see pitfalls for this?

I ask as in my new build it’s what I’m looking at doing, I have a dedicated room upstairs in my plans for a server room and my plan to install everything in this room and terminate all sat cables, CAT cables, camera and possibly even speaker cabling as the amp would be in the room. Every box would then be installed here, media server, sat boxes, raspberry pi, Apple TV’s etc and can be distributed to any room in the house via CAT7, maybe hdmi to some locations as back up too. I’d also get my internet connection to this room from the outside and will have conduit in the walls to enable this.

I plan on doing all this install myself just getting the electrician to do all the chasing for me. I’ve done CAT6 installs in family houses before so have the termination kit etc for running unterminated also. I will need to do a lot of planning yet though on how to lay everything out and also if centralising everything is the best way or do something half way with some cerntralised and some with boxes at the locations.

LenWoods

Brittany Important Yak wrote: »

Very nice work!
One question did you consider centralising everything as in just put all the boxes in the attic and feed them down to the rooms, blue ray in the attic etc so there is nothing in the rooms bar cabling to the TVs? Or did you see pitfalls for this?

Thanks very much,
Space is limited in my house and the attic gets quite warm in the summer months, I had to make do with the living room being the main location really,
I mounted all the attic distribution on to the wall panel with the intention of converting the attic space at a later date; some plasterboard and cabinet doors will keep it looking tidy.

I have eliminated noise from the virgin media multiroom boxes by fitting solid state drives so there's zero noise from any of the bedroom installs and I quite like the floating boxes,]

unfortunately the main horizon box in the living room can't be upgrade to solid state drive; I did try but no success; so there's a hum from that,

If I had the additional space; I would have considered an install like your planning; my next addition is a network attached storage device, been looking at fitting a solid state drive to it for zero noise but they work out close to 450 for a 1TB drive.

You will save a fortune by routing all the cables yourself and I find it quite therapeutic, also you might get good use out of an F-type crimping tool and cutter,
The cutter has two adjustable blades for stripping the coaxial cables
Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crimper-Coaxial-Compression-Stripper-Connectors/dp/B07JP5ZK27/ref=mp_s_a_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=f+type+crimping+tool&qid=1599043740&sprefix=f+type+cri&sr=8-12

Gerry Wicklow

Nice work @LenWoods
One small tip which you may have done but I didn't spot in the pics. It's a good idea to run an extra length of string in the conduits for future use. Then if /when adding anything else, tie another string to that so you always have a spare string.

Johnboy1951

Brittany Important Yak wrote: »

Very nice work!

One question did you consider centralising everything as in just put all the boxes in the attic and feed them down to the rooms, blue ray in the attic etc so there is nothing in the rooms bar cabling to the TVs? Or did you see pitfalls for this?

I ask as in my new build it’s what I’m looking at doing, I have a dedicated room upstairs in my plans for a server room and my plan to install everything in this room and terminate all sat cables, CAT cables, camera and possibly even speaker cabling as the amp would be in the room. Every box would then be installed here, media server, sat boxes, raspberry pi, Apple TV’s etc and can be distributed to any room in the house via CAT7, maybe hdmi to some locations as back up too. I’d also get my internet connection to this room from the outside and will have conduit in the walls to enable this.

HDMI cables are not all equal and today's spec cable might well be obsolete in a couple of years.

IMO you might be better served having backup Cat 7 cable runs.

I plan on doing all this install myself just getting the electrician to do all the chasing for me. I’ve done CAT6 installs in family houses before so have the termination kit etc for running unterminated also. I will need to do a lot of planning yet though on how to lay everything out and also if centralising everything is the best way or do something half way with some cerntralised and some with boxes at the locations.

Why would you have an electrician do a builder's labourer's work?
There is nothing electrical in chasing walls and as you are doing this yourself you specify the routes and chases. Get a local handyman or a labourer who has done this before to do it for you. I have never seen an electrician do this ..... they get a labourer to do it for them!


Planning is the key. You just cannot do enough of it!

Also I strongly suggest multiple RJ45 outlets per room.
You can never tell how a room might be used in the future ...... furniture moved about; TV used in different location; room used for a completely different purpose.
It is best to prepare for this as it would be a huge job to do it in the future.

I have been running a centralised system for some years now and I am very glad I did not use the attic, but a dedicated media press with all the connections and backend devices there, including internet connection and router.

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

HDMI cables are not all equal and today's spec cable might well be obsolete in a couple of years.

IMO you might be better served having backup Cat 7 cable runs.

I’ll be running a number of CAT7/8 cables to each room, in fact I may run some fibre even as I will be running some fibre to external points on the site so might run some internally. The hdmi I will see on how I set things up either way I’ll have large conduit so I can pull back and change any cables I need to.

I will be running a high end Linux box on which I can mix saorview, freesat and iptv for subscription channels to the main living room so that would be the link

I’d be thinking of running hdmi rather than having the box local. Also an Apple TV for plex, Disney etc. Other option is hdmi over Ethernet which I will consider also. All other tv points I may just have an Apple TV or raspberry pi hidden behind the tv and connected by Ethernet rather than centralising them but that I’ll have to think on. The Apple TV will give me everything all the apps, locally stream sat and saorview and iptv app so they are preferable for flexibility but probably make do with RPis in some locations. Anyway that’s getting too into the real detail it’s higher level I need to plan at now.

My aim is really to not see a single wire or box anywhere in the house all you have is tv’s on walls and nothing else but with all the functionality at each tv. The one issue I’m foreseeing is how I will make it work with sound as all the connections pass through the amp but centrally locating it will make running the speaker cables complicated. I’d be planning surround sound systems in 2 rooms at least.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Why would you have an electrician do a builder's labourer's work?
There is nothing electrical in chasing walls and as you are doing this yourself you specify the routes and chases. Get a local handyman or a labourer who has done this before to do it for you. I have never seen an electrician do this ..... they get a labourer to do it for them!

Lazy wording, I just meant who ever is chasing for the electrics in the house.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I have been running a centralised system for some years now and I am very glad I did not use the attic, but a dedicated media press with all the connections and backend devices there, including internet connection and router.

Yeah centralised is definitely the way I’m going, got my architect to include a small room especially for it about 1m x 1.5m and everything will go though this room.

LenWoods mentioned heat and that is something I’m keeping in mind too so I’ll have a heat recovery vent on extract in the server room so the heat generated will actually not go to waste in winter and in summer it should keep the room from getting too hot.

The Ayatolla

Aren't those converters for Cat5e/6 cables to HDMI costly?

Or is there a cheap and convenient way to turn a Cat5e cable into HDMI?

Johnboy1951

The Ayatolla wrote: »

Aren't those converters for Cat5e/6 cables to HDMI costly?

Or is there a cheap and convenient way to turn a Cat5e cable into HDMI?

I bring the Cat5e to the TV point and use a cheap Android box (€30 - €40) there running a client app suited to the backend server so each client has all the functions available.

So centralised tuner backend/server and individual client boxes at TVs (where required). Tablets, phones PCs etc can also access the full functions available.

Johnboy1951

Brittany Important Yak wrote: »

I will be running a high end Linux box on which I can mix saorview, freesat and iptv for subscription channels to the main living room so that would be the link

You might be surprised at how little resources are required for the tuner server.
I had originally built a reasonably well specc'd HTPC only to find I had wasted about €700.
A €30 Android box running a JeOS Linux does the job equally well for me.

Of course if you must re-encode files for some reason then more resources would be required.

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You might be surprised at how little resources are required for the tuner server.
I had originally built a reasonably well specc'd HTPC only to find I had wasted about €700.
A €30 Android box running a JeOS Linux does the job equally well for me.

Of course if you must re-encode files for some reason then more resources would be required.

I already have the box, use it at my main tv in my current setup but can stream to other devices from it too. I’d plan to still use this box directly in my main living room (even if the box isn’t physically in the room). Also for the main living room tv it has to be able to run iptv along side saorview and freesat I can build bouquets with channels from all three sources - I can do this with my current box.

I run a linux server for plex, torrenting etc and if I need to add extra tuners for other rooms I would add tuner cards to this most likely.

Rick_

LenWoods, I remember seeing your progress pics on another site (same as above) and loved what you have done. Really nice looking stuff. When I get round to buying a house hopefully next year, I would like to do almost exactly what you have done. Every room to have the ability to receive all FTA terrestrial and satellite channels, with the option of having subscription services, but also a wired connection for TV/desktop devices and a strong wireless signal throughout and a central HDD for storage of archived programmes that can be accessed and played back from any room in the house.

m8

Ho long were your HDMI cables?

The Ayatolla wrote: »

I did something similarly recently.

I ran a HDMI, 2x coax and 1x Cat5e to each TV point. These were all ran back to the attic to a designated spot.

The I had my Sky and internet modem installed in the living room. From there I ran another Coax, Cat5e and HDMI cable to the attic to supply a HDMI splitter, Sky Magic eye distribution and feed by ethernet switch. I also have an aerial in the attic which joins into the "magic eye" distribution to supply Saorview.

At every TV in the house, I have saorview, FTA satellite/Freesat and the ability watch Sky HD (same channel as what's on main TV). Each TV also has an ethernet wired to it for smart functionality etc.

The setup also paves the way for SkyQ down the line with the ethernet cables etc available at each TV. I'm using 'legacy' Sky HD at the moment.

I'd also look into wiring for a mesh wifi system with ethernet backhaul. Something like this. Space them out evenly around the house for one seamless Wifi network and zero-minimal blackspots / speed loss.

The Ayatolla

The Ayatolla wrote: »

Aren't those converters for Cat5e/6 cables to HDMI costly?

Or is there a cheap and convenient way to turn a Cat5e cable into HDMI?

I’d be looking at hdmi over IP rather than the point to point HDMI to Ethernet converters. HDMI over IP looks far superior from what I’ve looked into and also gives you point to multipoint.

Cost wise like anything there is a big variation 40 or 50 per unit is probably the cheapest last time I looked but I will be looking at the best way to do it rather than the cheapest as I want it done right.

The Ayatolla

m8 wrote: »

Ho long were your HDMI cables?

Longest was 20M I think

Jonathan

LenWoods wrote: »

Out of interest, what is the Virgin Media plug with Coax going into it (bottom left plug) for?

Nice setup btw.

LenWoods

Jonathan wrote: »

Out of interest, what is the Virgin Media plug with Coax going into it (bottom left plug) for?

Nice setup btw.

Thanks,
That mains plug is a power supply for the brown box outside the house which has the fibre optic to RG6 converter inside,
Virgin run an additional RG6 feed in to the house and fit this mains plug to it; to power the fibre optic decoder
(if that's what it should be called, takes in fibre-optic puts out RG6)
I have three RG6 feeds come in from the box outside;
1 x for power supply
1 x to the living room; split then for broadband & TV
1 x feeding up to the attic split then in to three output one to each bedroom upstairs for multiroom.

Here's a link to a similar unit on eBay to allow me to show you the item in more detail: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Virgin-Media-cable-signal-booster-CATV-2-way-HDU-200-Sky-Aerial-Freeview-Booster/124314508472?hash=item1cf1b8dcb8:g:0Y4AAOSwtbBbaFEx

My full home improvement thread includes a very detailed virgin media install in my estate and then run in to my home see page 03 of this link for virgin media install
Link: https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/80864-living-room-project/

I decided to document it in great detail to show others what is involved when choosing to get it installed as I had very little knowledge of the process prior to having it done in my own home and couldn't find much information online at the time.

I was the second house in our estate to sign up,
I later re-installed the entire system also adding two bedrooms using Belden 1694A RG6 which is silver shielded against 4G and possibly 5G but let's not go there lol
bottom line the Belden cable improved the already fantastic internet speeds,
I also purchased an F-type crimping tool and proper virgin media crimp on F-type terminals on eBay UK so everything looks like a proper installation but better quality cable which should last longer in to the future before becoming obsolete.

Thanks.