What can I ask for as a LL?

Session2019!

Smee_Again wrote: »

And you wouldn’t get the house. I’d be looking to see how you pay your existing rent, if you’ve redacted everything then I’ll pass. Or ask for a bigger deposit but probably just move on to the next interested person.

I’m taking on a risk of thousands of Euro and I want to minimize that risk. This is how I do it.

I pay by a magical thing called a standing order. One would think that if your requesting a landlord reference from a potential tennent that would confirm it but then again I'm not a over reaching LL looking for the most ridiculous information.

Would you show me where my rent money goes? If its used to pay a mortgage on an existing house then I should expect you to show me that payment on a bank statement and at the very least every month going forward during my tenancy

Gumbo

Session2019! wrote: »

I pay by a magical thing called a standing order. One would think that if your requesting a landlord reference from a potential tennent that would confirm it but then again I'm not a over reaching LL looking for the most ridiculous information.

Would you show me where my rent money goes? If its used to pay a mortgage on an existing house then I should expect you to show me that payment on a bank statement and at the very least every month going forward during my tenancy

Your choice. The OP will just move onto the next tenant.
We all have the right to pick and choose what info we give to a prospective LL.

Smee_Again

Session2019! wrote: »

I pay by a magical thing called a standing order. One would think that if your requesting a landlord reference from a potential tennent that would confirm it but then again I'm not a over reaching LL looking for the most ridiculous information.

Would you show me where my rent money goes? If its used to pay a mortgage on an existing house then I should expect you to show me that payment on a bank statement and at the very least every month going forward during my tenancy

Landlord reference ain’t worth much, bank statements are where I’d be looking.

No I would not because you are not the one taking on the financial risk. I am.

gauchesnell

Smee_Again wrote: »

Landlord reference ain’t worth much, bank statements are where I’d be looking.

No I would not because you are not the one taking on the financial risk. I am.

Again a bank statement doesnt show someone is living within their means or realistic expenditure.

I can provide you with the bank statement from the account I use to pay my rent and bills....no other activity on the account. What does that show you. Again just interested.

eleventh

Smee Again wrote:

Landlord reference ain’t worth much, bank statements are where I’d be looking.

Bank statements shouldn't be the deciding factor. Obviously showing rent paid in the past is important, but if you think having a large bank balance vs average bank balance automatically means better tenant, think again.

No I would not because you are not the one taking on the financial risk. I am.

It is absolutely a risk for the tenant. Moving costs time and money. It's an investment of sorts (unless it's the foreign travel, airbnb type of tenant).
A LL could be in trouble and decide to sell up a few months later, where does that leave the tenant.

gauchesnell

eleventh wrote: »

Bank statements shouldn't be the deciding factor. Obviously showing rent paid in the past is important, but if you think having a large bank balance vs average bank balance automatically means better tenant, think again.
It is absolutely a risk for the tenant. Moving costs time and money. It's an investment of sorts (unless it's the foreign travel, airbnb type of tenant).
A LL could be in trouble and decide to sell up a few months later, where does that leave the tenant.

well said ..my last LL was fantastic except for entering my home while I was there. Finally called him on it and it stopped thankfully. Scary.

So yes renting is a risk.

Smee_Again

eleventh wrote: »

Bank statements shouldn't be the deciding factor. Obviously showing rent paid in the past is important, but if you think having a large bank balance vs average bank balance automatically means better tenant, think again.

Balance is irrelevant, my own account today has about €20 in it. Its the method and frequency of payments that I am interested in. Is the rent paid by standing order or manual payment, is it on the same date each month, does the STO ever bounce, any late payment fees on the account etc.

It is absolutely a risk for the tenant. Moving costs time and money. It's an investment of sorts (unless it's the foreign travel, airbnb type of tenant).
A LL could be in trouble and decide to sell up a few months later, where does that leave the tenant.

Sure, and the tenant can ask questions of the landlord to minimise this risk. I always tell any tenant I'm dealing with how long the landlord has owned the property and what their medium to long term plans are and that these do not involve selling. This is information that if I was renting I would like to know for the reasons you mention above.

But the risk to the tenant pales in comparison to that of the landlord, the higher the risk the higher the level of due diligence.

For me its a purely business relationship and I treat it as such, go to any other business where one side is expected to take on a risk of c. €16K and see what information and documentation they ask for.

€16K being roughly the average annual rent in Ireland, and 12 months being the time taken to evict a non-paying tenant. (and this ignores the value of the property).

LawBoy2018

I would never give a landlord my PPS number.

Dav010

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

I would never give a landlord my PPS number.

It is required to register the tenancy.

https://www.rtb.ie/register-a-tenancy/how-to-register-a-tenancy

kenmm

Smee_Again wrote: »

Sure, and the tenant can ask questions of the landlord to minimise this risk. I always tell any tenant I'm dealing with how long the landlord has owned the property and what their medium to long term plans are and that these do not involve selling. ).

Wait, you are an agent?

Maybe it works differently here, but agents I've used in the past, I've made sure they do enough of a due diligence to minimise this risk (but not Ireland).


Maybe that's what's needed here, agents with more power.
I know in other places they would do a full credit check, they need to make sure the LL is properly registered and there would be deposit segregation as well to give a bit more confidence to the tenant.


No system is foolproof of course, but I think that would help trust on both sides (I.e. a proper middleman that you can trust with data etc)

Smee_Again

kenmm wrote: »

Wait, you are an agent?

Maybe it works differently here, but agents I've used in the past, I've made sure they do enough of a due diligence to minimise this risk (but not Ireland).


Maybe that's what's needed here, agents with more power.
I know in other places they would do a full credit check, they need to make sure the LL is properly registered and there would be deposit segregation as well to give a bit more confidence to the tenant.


No system is foolproof of course, but I think that would help trust on both sides (I.e. a proper middleman that you can trust with data etc)

Not an agent, just helping out a family member.

Yeah, allowing the landlord hold on to the deposit is an issue. Too many consider the deposit their money rather than the tenants.

gauchesnell

Smee_Again wrote: »

Balance is irrelevant, my own account today has about €20 in it. Its the method and frequency of payments that I am interested in. Is the rent paid by standing order or manual payment, is it on the same date each month, does the STO ever bounce, any late payment fees on the account etc.




Sure, and the tenant can ask questions of the landlord to minimise this risk. I always tell any tenant I'm dealing with how long the landlord has owned the property and what their medium to long term plans are and that these do not involve selling. This is information that if I was renting I would like to know for the reasons you mention above.

But the risk to the tenant pales in comparison to that of the landlord, the higher the risk the higher the level of due diligence.

For me its a purely business relationship and I treat it as such, go to any other business where one side is expected to take on a risk of c. €16K and see what information and documentation they ask for.

€16K being roughly the average annual rent in Ireland, and 12 months being the time taken to evict a non-paying tenant. (and this ignores the value of the property).

sorry as previous poster has asked are you an agent or LL - ah ok you clarified.

where are you getting your figures from ...am I wrong but are you quoting Eur 1333 per month rental. That doesnt reflect the current rental market

also as mentioned I can provide you a bank account which doesnt show any rental transactions.

I know the property in question is not located is not in Dublin - any idea where this in. General area. Interest seems low from the figures quoted earlier.

Smee_Again

gauchesnell wrote: »

sorry as previous poster has asked are you an agent or LL - ah ok you clarified.

where are you getting your figures from ...am I wrong but are you quoting Eur 1333 per month rental. That doesnt reflect the current rental market

also as mentioned I can provide you a bank account which doesnt show any rental transactions.

I googled average rent Ireland and RTE took the first number I saw. TBF that’s more than the rent on the places I look after but the Q1 nationwide average was €1418 so it’s not too far out.

Yes you can, it won’t get you the property though.

eleventh

Smee_Again wrote: »

Sure, and the tenant can ask questions of the landlord to minimise this risk. I always tell any tenant I'm dealing with how long the landlord has owned the property and what their medium to long term plans are and that these do not involve selling. This is information that if I was renting I would like to know for the reasons you mention above.

Should a tenant ask for documentation?

But the risk to the tenant pales in comparison to that of the landlord, the higher the risk the higher the level of due diligence.

For me its a purely business relationship and I treat it as such, go to any other business where one side is expected to take on a risk of c. €16K and see what information and documentation they ask for.

€16K being roughly the average annual rent in Ireland, and 12 months being the time taken to evict a non-paying tenant. (and this ignores the value of the property).

There's a small number of criminal-minded tenants out there, in the same way there's a small number of criminal-minded landlords.

I don't know if treating everyone like they're a potential criminal is a good way to go. Even in a business relationship, it is good to have basic respect.
(People should be vetted of course for criminal record).

Risk to the landlord tends to be mostly financial, that's true. The risk to the tenant can be financial as well, but more often it's psychological and other types of risk such as not feeling safe in the property, not having exclusive enjoyment. Can't put a price/value on these things but not everything is financial.

There are rights and obligations on both sides. There is risk on both sides. Each side will naturally be more aware of their own risk, but good to be aware it's not all one-sided. If people have a good business relationship then things should be ok.

godtabh

eleventh wrote: »

Should a tenant ask for documentation?
There's a small number of criminal-minded tenants out there, in the same way there's a small number of criminal-minded landlords.

I don't know if treating everyone like they're a potential criminal is a good way to go. Even in a business relationship, it is good to have basic respect.
(People should be vetted of course for criminal record).

Risk to the landlord tends to be mostly financial, that's true. The risk to the tenant can be financial as well, but more often it's psychological and other types of risk such as not feeling safe in the property, not having exclusive enjoyment. Can't put a price/value on these things but not everything is financial.

There are rights and obligations on both sides. There is risk on both sides. Each side will naturally be more aware of their own risk, but good to be aware it's not all one-sided. If people have a good business relationship then things should be ok.

You can. Its called a mortgage.

It may be your home but it will never be your house. The only way not feeling safe in the property, not having exclusive enjoyment is to buy your own home and put LL out of business but thats not going to happen.

gauchesnell

Smee_Again wrote: »

I googled average rent Ireland and RTE took the first number I saw. TBF that’s more than the rent on the places I look after but the Q1 nationwide average was €1418 so it’s not too far out.

Yes you can, it won’t get you the property though.

I wouldnt be interested in any property rented from you - thought was clear. I wouldnt deal with anyone handling a property for a friend.

You will see that average will drop dramatically next Q.

40 inquiries about a property which I will assume is advertised online indicates very low interest to be honest but again location would probably factor in that.

Even if I was willing to give a bank statement - someone handling a property for a friend is a red flag.

Did I miss clarification as to what proof of residency was - still wondering?

Smee_Again

eleventh wrote: »

Should a tenant ask for documentation?
There's a small number of criminal-minded tenants out there, in the same way there's a small number of criminal-minded landlords.

I don't know if treating everyone like they're a potential criminal is a good way to go. Even in a business relationship, it is good to have basic respect.
(People should be vetted of course for criminal record).

Risk to the landlord tends to be mostly financial, that's true. The risk to the tenant can be financial as well, but more often it's psychological and other types of risk such as not feeling safe in the property, not having exclusive enjoyment. Can't put a price/value on these things but not everything is financial.

There are rights and obligations on both sides. There is risk on both sides. Each side will naturally be more aware of their own risk, but good to be aware it's not all one-sided. If people have a good business relationship then things should be ok.

Up to you whether you ask for documentation and up to the landlord whether they provide it.

As someone pointed out you can put a price on those things, it’s the price of the house.

As for me, the tenants I pick usually stay for years. The last 2 are in situ now close to 5 years and the people before that were 4 and 20+ and both moved out of their own accord.

I have no qualms about asking for the information I do because I know what I’m doing and how to keep a tenant. I think that comes across when I am meeting new tenants which is why they provide the information requested. I’m selling a service so I make sure they know what I’m offering and what my criteria are.

Dav010

Interesting segment on the Last Word this evening about property sales and a short mention of rents. Seems the Irish market is confounding all forecasts, including the banks, that prices would fall significantly, CSO figures show they haven’t.

gauchesnell

godtabh wrote: »

You can. Its called a mortgage.

It may be your home but it will never be your house. The only way not feeling safe in the property, not having exclusive enjoyment is to buy your own home and put LL out of business but thats not going to happen.

Yeah - I assume you are the LL

enough said.

I am a tenant and a LL btw . A lot of people are.

Smee_Again

gauchesnell wrote: »

I wouldnt be interested in any property rented from you - thought was clear. I wouldnt deal with anyone handling a property for a friend.

You will see that average will drop dramatically next Q.

40 inquiries about a property which I will assume is advertised online indicates very low interest to be honest but again location would probably factor in that.

Even if I was willing to give a bank statement - someone handling a property for a friend is a red flag.

Did I miss clarification as to what proof of residency was - still wondering?

Judging by your posts on here you wouldn’t get past the screening anyway so we’re both safe enough.

gauchesnell

Smee_Again wrote: »

Judging by your posts on here you wouldn’t get past the screening anyway so we’re both safe enough.

Well I know my stuff - from renting and being a LL with my ex

I can spot when something isnt right and it doesnt sound like there is a lot on interest anyway.

only hanging around to see if I can figure out what proof of residency means for a LL or agent. Never came across that before.

eleventh

godtabh wrote: »

You can. Its called a mortgage.

It may be your home but it will never be your house. The only way not feeling safe in the property, not having exclusive enjoyment is to buy your own home and put LL out of business but thats not going to happen.

I was giving examples off the top of my head of the type of risk. I'm sure there are many more, where people ignore rights or obligations or opt to make things difficult.

Personally I'm not interested in a mortgage.

Renting should always be an option. It should be a viable and acceptable option to rent for life if someone wants, or it suits their circumstances, or whatever. It's the attitude that paying rent is 'a step down' from paying a mortgage that contributes to problems.

eleventh

Smee Again wrote:

As someone pointed out you can put a price on those things, it’s the price of the house.

Not what was said.

There is no price on dealing with a landlord who disrespects rights such as by entering property without permission, for example.
In other words, a tenant in that case has agreed/committed to and is paying for something that's defective (the risk).
You can't put a price on peace of mind but it's very valuable, some would say priceless.
Hope that explains it a bit better.

gauchesnell

gauchesnell wrote: »

Again a bank statement doesnt show someone is living within their means or realistic expenditure.

I can provide you with the bank statement from the account I use to pay my rent and bills....no other activity on the account. What does that show you. Again just interested.

But another potential tenant will show their main current account not some side account and if they have a large income and maintain a large balance in their current account even after paying rent, bills and saving etc then you can be fairly confident they are living within their means and are financially secure.

gauchesnell wrote: »

only hanging around to see if I can figure out what proof of residency means for a LL or agent. Never came across that before.

Surely you understand what proof of residency is or in other words the legal right to live in Ireland. An Irish or EU passport, a visa or work permit etc would prove this.

The J Stands for Jay

Adriel Nutty Cowgirl wrote: »

But another potential tenant will show their main current account not some side account and if they have a large income and maintain a large balance in their current account even after paying rent, bills and saving etc then you can be fairly confident they are living within their means and are financially secure.



Surely you understand what proof of residency is or in other words the legal right to live in Ireland. An Irish or EU passport, a visa or work permit etc would prove this.

Who leaves a large balance in their current account?

McGaggs

McGaggs wrote: »

Who leaves a large balance in their current account?

Plenty of people would keep a balance to have free banking it’s 3k with BOI and a surprising number of people just keep all their money in the savings account and could have 10’s of thousands in their current account.

However for the sake of this large balance was probably the wrong term, a healthy balance would probably be worded better I.e. not constantly skirting around the 0 balance or going into overdrafts etc. I don’t even have an overdraft facility and I move a fixed amount to savings and anything else stays in my current account so if I’ve a cheap month the balance starts to build up.

Gumbo

McGaggs wrote: »

Who leaves a large balance in their current account?

It makes no sense to have it anywhere else with near 0% interest rates.

gauchesnell

Adriel Nutty Cowgirl wrote: »

But another potential tenant will show their main current account not some side account and if they have a large income and maintain a large balance in their current account even after paying rent, bills and saving etc then you can be fairly confident they are living within their means and are financially secure.



Surely you understand what proof of residency is or in other words the legal right to live in Ireland. An Irish or EU passport, a visa or work permit etc would prove this.

Does that mean you are requesting 2 forms ID - passport was already on your list. Any chance we could have more info on this property - general area/rent/type.

I know it is not in Dublin but I am interested to know where such requirements come from. Are they unique to one area.

gauchesnell

Adriel Nutty Cowgirl wrote: »

But another potential tenant will show their main current account not some side account and if they have a large income and maintain a large balance in their current account even after paying rent, bills and saving etc then you can be fairly confident they are living within their means and are financially secure.



Surely you understand what proof of residency is or in other words the legal right to live in Ireland. An Irish or EU passport, a visa or work permit etc would prove this.

again that doesnt show debts...a balance in a current account after bills and savings doesnt show how much debt a person can have.

or assets i.e. also being homeowner in different city