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Sinn Fein Omerta

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    #452
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    My point is that the only one who can clear Paul Quinn's name about his involvement in criminality for Mrs Quinn is the PSNI.


    Everyone else is just guessing.


    You are asking the PSNI to retract a statement they never made. Why exactly would you think they would ever do that?

    Sinn Fein need to explain why the statement was made in the first place, if they have proof to say he was a criminal present it to the PSNI and also any evidence they have on who carried out the murder

    Not lie for the last 7 years. How would you even think they should not do the above?

    Even if not a political party any decent human would do the above.

    Also nobody would be guessing if SF didn't try to cover up for the PIRA by trying to say this man was a criminal. As if it is ok just to murder criminals. What sort of person thinks that is an excuse????


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    #453
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    You are asking the PSNI to retract a statement they never made. Why exactly would you think they would ever do that?

    Sinn Fein need to explain why the statement was made in the first place, if they have proof to say he was a criminal present it to the PSNI and also any evidence they have on who carried out the murder

    Not lie for the last 7 years. How would you even think they should not do the above?

    Even if not a political party any decent human would do the above.

    No, I'm asking them to confirm that Paul Quinn was not involved in criminality (which is what Mrs Quinn is asking of Sinn Fein).

    The Guards say something like the victim was ''not known to them'' when someone innocent gets caught up in some gangland violence.


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    #454
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    jm08 wrote: »
    My point is that the only one who can clear Paul Quinn's name about his involvement in criminality for Mrs Quinn is the PSNI.


    Everyone else is just guessing.

    Even if the young lad was involved in small time criminality it doesn’t mean he deserved the savage death he was subjected to. There’s a very sinister attempt in this and other threads to try and somehow minimise what happened to him. No bunch of ‘good republicans’ are allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner in their local communities.

    Dirty scumbags carried out the crime, and a SF MLA knows who was involved. So does Gerry Adams. That’s repulsive proto-fascism.


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    #455
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    No, I'm asking them to confirm that Paul Quinn was not involved in criminality (which is what Mrs Quinn is asking of Sinn Fein).

    The Guards say something like the victim was ''not known to them'' when someone innocent gets caught up in some gangland violence.


    The PSNI never said he was a criminal. Why would they need to say he isn't?


    Sorry but no idea why this is confusing to you. This is a mess made by Sinn Fein trying to drag the PSNI or any other organization now in to cover that up is just finger pointing


    The PSNI don't thrust SF, most people don't, if they made a statement you can be damn siure SF would be on the TV 2 mins later with some BS story about it.


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    #456
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    How the f**k is it the elephant in the room? the PSNI never said he was a criminal?

    The elephant in the room is that report from the Gardai and the PSNI that Bertie Ahern was quoting and the IMC report which says (and has not been retracted that I am aware of)
    We think that the attack on Paul Quinn was planned and carried out by local people and that it arose from local disputes. Whatever the immediate reason for the killing certain aspects of these disputes go back some time and were not unconnected with continuing illegal activity;

    Who do you think the IMC got that info from? The RA or the PSNI?


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    #457
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Even if the young lad was involved in small time criminality it doesn’t mean he deserved the savage death he was subjected to. There’s a very sinister attempt in this and other threads to try and somehow minimise what happened to him. No bunch of ‘good republicans’ are allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner in their local communities.

    Dirty scumbags carried out the crime, and a SF MLA knows who was involved. So does Gerry Adams. That’s repulsive proto-fascism.


    Murder seemingly according to some individuals on here is nothing worse than robbing a few sweets in the cornor shop.


    It really shows how far the human race has sunk when you have people actually posting this sort of stuff, ahh sure it was ok to beat him and break every bone in his body, killing him because he was a XYZ.....absolute scumnbags. Even for a SF politician to think of that shows a sick mind.


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    #458
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Even if the young lad was involved in small time criminality it doesn’t mean he deserved the savage death he was subjected to. There’s a very sinister attempt in this and other threads to try and somehow minimise what happened to him. No bunch of ‘good republicans’ are allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner in their local communities.

    Dirty scumbags carried out the crime, and a SF MLA knows who was involved. So does Gerry Adams. That’s repulsive proto-fascism.

    So do the Gardai, so do the PSNI so do the IMC and so do the locals.

    However, standing in a court and saying 'I know something', has never been acceptable as evidence. (Except in Kangaroo and Special Criminal Courts)

    Have you any idea how big a hole in a case a defense would tear if you stood in court and said 'I know who did it' but had no other evidence, forensic or otherwise?


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    #459
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The PSNI never said he was a criminal. Why would they need to say he isn't?[


    Because they are the only ones who actually know.


    Its got nothing to do with what they said or did not say.


    Sorry but no idea why this is confusing to you. This is a mess made by Sinn Fein trying to drag the PSNI or any other organization now in to cover that up is just finger pointing


    Actually, the mess was made by Bertie Ahern who should not have said what he did.

    The PSNI don't thrust SF, most people don't, if they made a statement you can be damn siure SF would be on the TV 2 mins later with some BS story about it.


    Untrue. Sinn Fein supports policing in Northern Ireland now that it has been reformed. Wasn't Michelle O'Neill getting death threats recently from dissident republicans for doing so? It was the PSNI who actually informed her of the threats and that they were credible.


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    #460
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So do the Gardai, so do the PSNI so do the IMC and so do the locals.

    However, standing in a court and saying 'I know something', has never been acceptable as evidence. (Except in Kangaroo and Special Criminal Courts)

    Have you any idea how big a hole in a case a defense would tear if you stood in court and said 'I know who did it' but had no other evidence, forensic or otherwise?

    Why hasn't Conor Murphy been expelled from the party for associating with the murderers?


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    #461
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    jh79 wrote: »
    Why hasn't Conor Murphy been expelled from the party for associating with the murderers?


    How would you go about expelling him for that?


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    #462
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Even if the young lad was involved in small time criminality it doesn’t mean he deserved the savage death he was subjected to. There’s a very sinister attempt in this and other threads to try and somehow minimise what happened to him. No bunch of ‘good republicans’ are allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner in their local communities.

    Dirty scumbags carried out the crime, and a SF MLA knows who was involved. So does Gerry Adams. That’s repulsive proto-fascism.

    Low level diesel smuggling / laundering along the border, plenty of young lads his age involved in it. What happened to him was absolutely horrific and unjustified. I personally think C.Murphy should've been drop kicked out of SF over his links to those involved - it would've sent a clear message that this kind of activity is no longer tolerated.


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    #463
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    Because they are the only ones who actually know.


    Its got nothing to do with what they said or did not say.






    Actually, the mess was made by Bertie Ahern who should not have said what he did.





    Untrue. Sinn Fein supports policing in Northern Ireland now that it has been reformed. Wasn't Michelle O'Neill getting death threats recently from dissident republicans for doing so? It was the PSNI who actually informed her of the threats and that they were credible.


    Are you saying Bertie came out and told the press it was ok to kill the lad because he was a criminal?

    The whole point of the thread is SF don't support policing. If they did it wouldn't have taken weeks for them to ok a person to talk to the Garda about a murder. No idea how you are missing this


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    #464
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    jm08 wrote: »
    How would you go about expelling him for that?

    " We are expelling you from Sinn Féin for associating with known dissident republicans and suspected involvement with cross border criminality"

    Or something similar ?


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    #465
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    jm08 wrote: »
    No, I'm asking them to confirm that Paul Quinn was not involved in criminality (which is what Mrs Quinn is asking of Sinn Fein).

    The Guards say something like the victim was ''not known to them'' when someone innocent gets caught up in some gangland violence.

    99% of people on this island believe that Gerry Adams was a leader in the IRA and directed terrorist activity. Yet, whenever I raise this, SF acolytes point to the lack of a criminal conviction.

    A tiny tiny minority of people, mostly Shinnerbots on Twitter, believe that Paul Quinn was involved in criminality, yet you are demanding that the PSNI issue a statement clearing him of criminality?


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    #466
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    jm08 wrote: »
    Because they are the only ones who actually know.


    Its got nothing to do with what they said or did not say.






    Actually, the mess was made by Bertie Ahern who should not have said what he did.





    Untrue. Sinn Fein supports policing in Northern Ireland now that it has been reformed. Wasn't Michelle O'Neill getting death threats recently from dissident republicans for doing so? It was the PSNI who actually informed her of the threats and that they were credible.

    The truth of what politicians have to say about Paul Quinn was set out in full for you already, yet you continue with the lies and foolishness.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2008-02-07/5/


    Rory O'Hanlon: "A few weeks after the murder, I called to the Quinn household in Cullyhanna in the company of councillor Geraldine Donnelly. Despite the enormity of the tragedy, I was impressed by the dignity of the family. Briege Quinn told me she desired two things, that Paul's name be cleared of allegations of criminality and that the perpetrators be brought to justice. Paul Quinn's name has been cleared by the Government here and the Taoiseach spoke to Briege. I was present at the meeting. The Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party also accepts that Paul Quinn was an innocent victim."

    Enda Kenny: "The late Paul Quinn was entitled to have his good name and integrity protected by the peace process. I regret the quick response from the Government suggesting that criminal elements may have been involved. As I told Stephen and Briege Quinn, I and the party that I lead never regarded the late Paul Quinn as a criminal. It is important that all parties make that statement so as to bring some consolation to his family. I accept that the Government has confirmed that position in a meeting with his parents."

    Liz McManus: "I have little doubt members of the Provisional IRA carried out the attack on Paul Quinn and were responsible for his murder. I do not know if the murder was sanctioned at a higher level but regardless of this, the provisional movement has an obligation to face up to its responsibilities."

    "I cannot let this occasion pass without making some reference to the injudicious comments made by the Taoiseach in the aftermath of the killing in which he clearly implied that Paul Quinn had been involved in criminal activity. I do not know if the Taoiseach had been poorly briefed or if his desire not to do anything to destabilise the delicate political position in Northern Ireland clouded his judgment. However, the result of his comments was to play into the hands of his killers, provide ammunition for those who wanted to denigrate Paul Quinn and add enormously to the trauma of the Quinn family.

    In fairness to the Taoiseach, six weeks later he eventually withdrew those comments and publicly stated that Paul Quinn was not involved in criminal activity, but these groundless comments should never have been made in the first place."

    She had a lot more to say, well worth a read.

    Minister of State, Sean Power: "I and the Government have no problem stating categorically that the murder of Paul Quinn was not related in any way to any involvement of by him in criminal activities."

    But read the weaselly, sly, words of that creep Caoimhin O'Caoilean, still implying a slur on Paul Quinn's character:

    "The question has been raised as to whether the victim of this murder, Paul Quinn, may or may not have at any time been involved in criminal activity. As I have said before, that has no bearing whatsoever on the heinousness of the crime of murder committed against him."

    I am fed up to the teeth with the sleeveen approach of Sinn Fein supporters on here, continually to peddle lies about Paul Quinn. It is disgusting, it is sewer-like and repugnant.


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    #467
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Even if the young lad was involved in small time criminality it doesn’t mean he deserved the savage death he was subjected to. There’s a very sinister attempt in this and other threads to try and somehow minimise what happened to him. No bunch of ‘good republicans’ are allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner in their local communities.

    Dirty scumbags carried out the crime, and a SF MLA knows who was involved. So does Gerry Adams. That’s repulsive proto-fascism.

    Back sliding. The whole disgusting use of the family for political gain and faux outrage was based on the inference that Quinn was a criminal.
    Now you are trying to make it about the murder but that was not the argument dude.
    Certainly not the point of the thread. Dude.


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    #468
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Even if the young lad was involved in small time criminality it doesn’t mean he deserved the savage death he was subjected to. There’s a very sinister attempt in this and other threads to try and somehow minimise what happened to him. No bunch of ‘good republicans’ are allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner in their local communities.

    Dirty scumbags carried out the crime, and a SF MLA knows who was involved. So does Gerry Adams. That’s repulsive proto-fascism.


    Who is trying to minimise what happened to him. Everyone has said that he didn't deserve that and are quite shocked at the viciousness of it.


    From what I've read, Murphy spoke to the PSNI. They are the ones who have done nothing about it (because as we have been told there is no evidence as to who did it).


    Maybe the PSNI have learned a lesson in not saying anything to anyone about criminality on the border. No one is saying anything about those involved in the people smuggling deaths in England and where the alleged ringleader from the border area is being extradited to the UK prosecution.


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    #469
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The elephant in the room is that report from the Gardai and the PSNI that Bertie Ahern was quoting and the IMC report which says (and has not been retracted that I am aware of)


    Who do you think the IMC got that info from? The RA or the PSNI?

    The IMC spoke to Sinn Fein and the IRA all the time, how else do you think they verified the disposal of arms etc. If you are throwing doubt on that connection, then you are throwing doubt on everything the IMC said or did. More silliness.

    The IMC were sold a pup by the IRA leadership and believed them when they said they weren't involved. It wasn't the first time.


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    #470
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bowie wrote: »
    Back sliding. The whole disgusting use of the family for political gain and faux outrage was based on the inference that Quinn was a criminal.
    Now you are trying to make it about the murder but that was not the argument dude.
    Certainly not the point of the thread. Dude.

    The point of the thread is Sinn Fein omerta and covering up crime, relevant whether or not Paul Quinn was a criminal. And by the way, Johnny was not backsliding, that is just your misrepresentation of his post, a tactic not unusual.


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    #471
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Bowie wrote: »
    Back sliding. The whole disgusting use of the family for political gain and faux outrage was based on the inference that Quinn was a criminal.
    Now you are trying to make it about the murder but that was not the argument dude.
    Certainly not the point of the thread. Dude.


    The only thing disgusting around here is the lies been spouted by the usual few about the fact Sinn Fein made accusation about the death of a man to cover up for the PIRA


    Disgusting is the right word


    More disgusting is trying to compare murder to Maria Bailey case


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    #472
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    Who is trying to minimise what happened to him. Everyone has said that he didn't deserve that and are quite shocked at the viciousness of it.


    From what I've read, Murphy spoke to the PSNI. They are the ones who have done nothing about it (because as we have been told there is no evidence as to who did it).


    Maybe the PSNI have learned a lesson in not saying anything to anyone about criminality on the border. No one is saying anything about those involved in the people smuggling deaths in England and where the alleged ringleader from the border area is being extradited to the UK prosecution.


    Why are you talking about the PSNI?



    What the f**k have the PSNI got to do with lies from Sinn Fein?


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    #473
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Bowie wrote: »
    Back sliding. The whole disgusting use of the family for political gain and faux outrage was based on the inference that Quinn was a criminal.
    Now you are trying to make it about the murder but that was not the argument dude.
    Certainly not the point of the thread. Dude.

    I don’t know if the lad was involved in low level criminality. What I do know is he crossed the son of a well known ‘good republican’ who is a close confidant of the ultimate ‘good republican’, Thomas Slab Murphy. At least 12 people were present in the shed that night as Quinn was tortured to death. And the entire community up there knows who is involved. Omertà. Silence. Fear.

    And the former leader and president of SF knows exactly who was involved. The bearded sociopath.

    A morally repugnant and deeply abnormal party. A disgusting blight on Irish democracy. Anyone who supports them has absolutely no right to comment on anything else relating to the institutions and structures of this State. Morally bankrupt.


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    #474
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The IMC spoke to Sinn Fein and the IRA all the time, how else do you think they verified the disposal of arms etc. If you are throwing doubt on that connection, then you are throwing doubt on everything the IMC said or did. More silliness.

    The IMC were sold a pup by the IRA leadership and believed them when they said they weren't involved. It wasn't the first time.

    So if they 'were sold a pup'...how come they never changed their opinion?


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    #475
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    I don’t know if the lad was involved in low level criminality. What I do know is he crossed the son of a well known ‘good republican’ who is a close confidant of the ultimate ‘good republican’, Thomas Slab Murphy. At least 12 people were present in the shed that night as Quinn was tortured to death. And the entire community up there knows who is involved. Omertà. Silence. Fear.

    And the former leader and president of SF knows exactly who was involved. The bearded sociopath.

    A morally repugnant and deeply abnormal party. A disgusting blight on Irish democracy. Anyone who supports them has absolutely no right to comment on anything else relating to the institutions and structures of this State. Morally bankrupt.

    In a high percentage of any crime you want to mention...the local community have a fair idea, if not are certain, who is involved.

    That knowledge is useless in a court of law. It will never be, and in civil liberties/rights terms, should never be enough, to convict somebody as it is hearsay.


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    #476
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Bowie wrote: »
    Back sliding. The whole disgusting use of the family for political gain and faux outrage was based on the inference that Quinn was a criminal.
    Now you are trying to make it about the murder but that was not the argument dude.
    Certainly not the point of the thread. Dude.

    I find is distasteful that you are happy to make the murder of a young Irishman into a tit tat of political whataboutism.

    Semantics over who said what or when are simply disrespectful to the victim and his family.

    It is very disrespectful to distract reality over what went on just because some politician somewhere put his foot in it. At the end of the day a young man was tortured and murdered by a gang of chunts and whatever any free state politician says after is highly irrelevant, all things considered.


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    #477
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    In a high percentage of any crime you want to mention...the local community have a fair idea, if not are certain, who is involved.

    That knowledge is useless in a court of law. It will never be, and in civil liberties/rights terms, should never be enough, to convict somebody as it is hearsay.

    Nevertheless, it would allow us to draw our own conclusions, outside of a court of law.


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    #478
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Nevertheless, it would allow us to draw our own conclusions, outside of a court of law.

    Well that's obvious. Your track record is, if it is alleged against SF, it is time to get out the gallows.
    The accused's civil liberties and rights to defend themselves is withdrawn.


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    #479
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The IMC spoke to Sinn Fein and the IRA all the time, how else do you think they verified the disposal of arms etc. If you are throwing doubt on that connection, then you are throwing doubt on everything the IMC said or did. More silliness.

    The IMC were sold a pup by the IRA leadership and believed them when they said they weren't involved. It wasn't the first time.


    I think the PSNI might have sold them the pup:


    Sir Hugh Orde, Chief Constable of the PSNI, when asked if members of the IRA were involved in Paul Quinn's murder he replied: “People who were associated with the IRA at some stage were definitely involved in that crime. That does not mean in any way shape or form that this was an authorised event in the way people believe authorised to mean the hierarchy said do it. I think that's a totally different debate.”


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    #480
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Well that's obvious. Your track record is, if it is alleged against SF, it is time to get out the gallows.
    The accused's civil liberties and rights to defend themselves is withdrawn.

    Nope, never said that either. I do however, put a threshold on suitability for electoral office. Anyone, with a connection to a group that have been involved in thuggish criminality or supported thuggish criminality is unfit for public office - that includes the whole of Sinn Fein.


    Edit: In particular, in the case of Paul Quinn, the fact that Conor Murphy knew who in the IRA to go and have lunch with to check out the Paul Quinn story says more than enough about his lack of suitability for public office.


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    #481
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    I don’t know if the lad was involved in low level criminality. What I do know is he crossed the son of a well known ‘good republican’ who is a close confidant of the ultimate ‘good republican’, Thomas Slab Murphy. At least 12 people were present in the shed that night as Quinn was tortured to death. And the entire community up there knows who is involved. Omertà. Silence. Fear.

    And the former leader and president of SF knows exactly who was involved. The bearded sociopath.

    A morally repugnant and deeply abnormal party. A disgusting blight on Irish democracy. Anyone who supports them has absolutely no right to comment on anything else relating to the institutions and structures of this State. Morally bankrupt.

    And yet Fine Gael, the law and disorder party, lost votes to them.
    FF/FG ride institutions and structures of this State ragged. Give over dude.


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