Sinn Fein Omerta

IAMAMORON

Bowie wrote: »

The Mafia never tell their members to talk to the police. Also he was a witness against Brady.
You'll find many senior or long time political party affiliates will touch base with HQ before possibly involving the party name in something or even looking for legal advice.
I certainly don't find it disgraceful.
Even well to do students go to the school principle before the police.

The Times reporting like its a thing is merely another hatchet job.

Condones an Italian criminal organisation with a reputation for Kidnapping, Extortion and Capital Murder. Responsible for the murder of thousands of Italian citizens. Compares it to the IRA.

Then compares it with telling tales to the school principle?

The party "name"..... I will go into hysterical convulsions soon enough, I reckon that ship has sailed, keep it up though, ducky air law etc.

Hubertj

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No it isn't right.
Lots of things about a post conflict/war society are not right.

The fact is that large parts of communities that went through the conflict/war still do not trust the gardai.
Many in what is considered normal society do not trust the Gardai and frankly, this further evidence of leaking info for political purposes is very concerning to me. How many times does it need to happen until people ask questions?

to clarify, there was a terrorist campaign, not a war/ conflict.

Secondly, i think the story is much ado about nothing. The guy did the right thing giving evidence. However, if i was stupid enough to be a member of SF, i would likely talk to the party about it before going to AGS. That is understandable given the history and SF IRA links to crime etc.

FrancieBrady

Hubertj wrote: »

to clarify, there was a terrorist campaign, not a war/ conflict.

Secondly, i think the story is much ado about nothing. The guy did the right thing giving evidence. However, if i was stupid enough to be a member of SF, i would likely talk to the party about it before going to AGS. That is understandable given the history and SF IRA links to crime etc.

The Gardai leaking info for political purposes though...understandable given their history?

The alrming thing about this is the feigned outrage/surprise that some don't trust the Gardai or PSNI yet.

Will this help in building trust? I doubt it.

RandomViewer

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

How could these lowlifes ever be allowed hold the justice portfolio in government?

Michael Noonan was minister for justice in the 1980s, can't get much lower than that.

IAMAMORON

RandomViewer wrote: »

Michael Noonan was minister for justice in the 1980s, can't get much lower than that.

Of course, I distinctly remember Noonan being knee deep in Kidnapping, extortion, kneecapping and murdering civilians during his career as a free state TD. :rolleyes:

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Condones an Italian criminal organisation with a reputation for Kidnapping, Extortion and Capital Murder. Responsible for the murder of thousands of Italian citizens. Compares it to the IRA.

Then compares it with telling tales to the school principle?

The party "name"..... I will go into hysterical convulsions soon enough, I reckon that ship has sailed, keep it up though, ducky air law etc.

I don't see how your dislike of ethnic minorities plays into this.

Can you not read chief or are you just making up ****e?

RandomViewer

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Of course, I distinctly remember Noonan being knee deep in Kidnapping, extortion, kneecapping and murdering civilians during his career as a free state TD. :rolleyes:

Look up Bridget Mc Cole his behaviour was directly responsible for her premature death , should have been thrown out of the Dail back then, oh and ask Garda Williams was Baldy a person of interest in the mid 90s, Youve heard the same rumours as everyone else.

FrancieBrady

SF's angle is that a Detective Inspector went to Adams for help apparently.

If true that is pretty seismic really. That Adams did help and reassured the witness and he testified and gave the Gardai the break in the case, is really a step forward.

A Garda releasing this info is a step back though and a betrayal of trust.

That would be my read of it, if that is the way it happened.

smurgen

Bambi wrote: »

I seem to remember taking flak for posting something about never voluntarily becoming involved with AGS because they are dangerous

Well, here is a classic example why, fella does the right thing, gives vital evidence that convicts a cop killer and still gets f****d over by a garda just because it suited his book to f**k him over.

Nail on the head. Let's not forget the head of the gardai Drew Harris said that Mary Lou was the head of the IRA army council with no evidence at the height of the election and was not questioned about this to a great extent. This was repeated by Leo at the time and not one shred of evidence produced. He should have been forced to resign for interference in the election. He clearly is so biased against SF that he would work with Government parties to undermine our democratic elections.

https://www.thejournal.ie/harris-ira-sinn-fein-comments-5023259-Feb2020/

seamus

John Hutton wrote: »

If I was privy to information that could jail one member of a large murderous gang I would seek advice from people I trust in the large murderous gang before giving a statement to the Gardai.

FYP

I trust my Dad, but I don't think he'd be much help if I was trying to decide whether testifying against a gang member is a good idea. I'd search out someone who knew the gang well enough to clear it with them.

Just like this witness did.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF's angle is that a Detective Inspector went to Adams for help.

If true that is pretty seismic really. The Adams did help and reassured the witness and he testified and gave the Gardai the break in the case.

It's odd, if true, that the witness contacted SF at all, never mind why.
The 'disgraceful' element, as the OP put it, for me is that this made a top story and that once again the Garda are leaking stories with a political angle.
As you say the story could have been given a positive spin for SF however the matter of it being leaked remains.

IAMAMORON

Bowie wrote: »

I don't see how your dislike of ethnic minorities plays into this.

Can you not read chief or are you just making up ****e?

Throw as much mud as you like. I have no dislike of any ethnic minorities.

You are the person spoofing about the mafia, the IRA and schoolkids in the same sentence. Anything to clear the party " name ".

Shows what an undemocratic shambles Sinn Féin really are when they have to resort to shaming everything else to counteract their own litany of unending mire. Their members cannot even have an honest conversation or discussion.

You must get tired, do they not give you a holiday at all?

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Throw as much mud as you like. I have no dislike of any ethnic minorities.

You are the person spoofing about the mafia, the IRA and schoolkids in the same sentence. Anything to clear the party " name ".

Shows what an undemocratic shambles Sinn Féin really are when they have to resort to shaming everything else to counteract their own litany of unending mire. Their members cannot even have an honest conversation or discussion.

You must get tired, do they not give you a holiday at all?

You didn't comprehend my easy to read comment even upon quoting it.

Now you're off on a rant

Pkiernan

If the IRA-SF were in power, would they appoint a Minister for Truth?

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Throw as much mud as you like. I have no dislike of any ethnic minorities.

You are the person spoofing about the mafia, the IRA and schoolkids in the same sentence. Anything to clear the party " name ".

Shows what an undemocratic shambles Sinn Féin really are when they have to resort to shaming everything else to counteract their own litany of unending mire. Their members cannot even have an honest conversation or discussion.

You must get tired, do they not give you a holiday at all?

It was the Gardai who leaked this info in the middle of an ongoing case when they are actively looking for witnesses to come forward. Why? To try to shame SF.

IAMAMORON

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It was the Gardai who leaked this info in the middle of an ongoing case when they are actively looking for witnesses to come forward. Why? To try to shame SF.

I know.... it is so unfair, I wish the cops would play by the rules more, bastards aren't they?

TomTomTim

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It was the Gardai who leaked this info in the middle of an ongoing case when they are actively looking for witnesses to come forward. Why? To try to shame SF.

Weren't you pretending to not be a SF supporter for years on here?

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I know.... it is so unfair, I wish the cops would play by the rules more, bastards aren't they?

Cop out answer as usual...excuse the pun and all that.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you have assumed it was 'permission' and not 'reassurance'.

Excellent.

because thats what it was. You can claim 'reasurrance' if you mean 'Reassurance that the party and its hidden friends wouldnt kneecap him as a result'. If thats what you mean then yeah, reassurance

RandomViewer

Does the Garda leaking this give Brady grounds for appeal?

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Does the Garda leaking this give Brady grounds for appeal?

no. He can only appeal under certain circumstances. The case if over, people can speak about it

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

I've no idea what the situation is with any party. We don't know he was made to. I would suggest you are free to do so should you wish.
You can call your Granny or pal too I'd imagine. It's not something I would do. Likely I'd contact friend or family myself. It's unlikely people wouldn't talk to anybody.
If SF are found to have obstructed justice those responsible should be held to account.
Here we have another case of the finer details of a case being leaked. I don't recall any stories about who a witness did or did not contact before speaking with the police. Accused folk, yes. This reads like the Times trying to link SF to the murder, even though the chap was a witness against. It's of little consequence. This kind of spin is tired and dried up. The lads will get a few hours of japes before we get back to the troubles etc.

that shrug of the shoulders and vague "I dunno" doesnt really work when you just stated;

Bowie wrote: »

You'll find many senior or long time political party affiliates will touch base with HQ before possibly involving the party name in something or even looking for legal advice.

So either you know or you dont and your original comment is suggesting you know.

maccored

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I hope you got permission from the Ard Comhairle before posting here?

I would hate to see members dragging the parties' good name and reputation through the dirt, not fair on upstanding members who haven't a rashers what they're really voting for?

Ducky air law etc etc , up the republic and all that yeh?

Just to clarify - you are telling me I needed permission to post something?

Thats what you are saying, yes?

I can categorically tell you yer talking bollocks. Or else you think you are hilarious (that didnt work either Im afraid)

FrancieBrady

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

because thats what it was. You can claim 'reasurrance' if you mean 'Reassurance that the party and its hidden friends wouldnt kneecap him as a result'. If thats what you mean then yeah, reassurance

Or reassurance that the Gardai could be trusted.
The 'Gardai' who were handed this witness by a SF rep, the Gardai who apparently turned to Adams for help. If you believe that Adams at the time was the head of a Mafia like organisation of crims....you know what that means don't you?

RandomViewer

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

no. He can only appeal under certain circumstances. The case if over, people can speak about it

I just read the article in the link, evidence wasn't used anyway , my reading was that because the witness was a member of SF he thought this would be an issue for the Gardai not SF .

James Brown

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

that shrug of the shoulders and vague "I dunno" doesnt really work when you just stated;

It does horse. I said I don't know if party members of any party are forced to get in touch with HQ for such matters. And I don't.

I also said, "You'll find many senior or long time political party affiliates will touch base with HQ before possibly involving the party name in something or even looking for legal advice."

I don't see what's confusing you.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So either you know or you dont and your original comment is suggesting you know.

See above.

rdwight

Ush1 wrote: »

I wouldn't go to a politician about a crime I witnessed so I can't answer that.

Do you think it's right that people are effectively vetting information through politicians(who you said aren't trustworthy anyway) than to AGS?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No it isn't right.
Lots of things about a post conflict/war society are not right.

The fact is that large parts of communities that went through the conflict/war still do not trust the gardai.
Many in what is considered normal society do not trust the Gardai and frankly, this further evidence of leaking info for political purposes is very concerning to me. How many times does it need to happen until people ask questions?

You want us to believe the witness went to SF to ask them if he/she could trust the Gardai?

Good try, Francie.

RandomViewer

rdwight wrote: »

You want us to believe the witness went to SF to ask them if he/she could trust the Gardai?

Good try, Francie.

if you read the link the SF councillor approached the guard about the witness, there seemed to be some reticence with the Gardai in accepting the witness because he was a member of SF, in the end the evidence wasn't used anyway

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

You want us to believe the witness went to SF to ask them if he/she could trust the Gardai?

Good try, Francie.

Well how else did it play out.
Witness goes to SF rep who in Feb 2017 goes to the Gardai immediately and tells them of his existence thus 'giving Gardai a break in the case' (according to Irish Times).

Detective Inspector asks Adams to help convince the witness. Witness gives evidence.

Is it credible that the DI asked Adams to give a witness permission to give evidence? A witness that SF told the gardai about in the first place?


Spin that one, as they say.

RandomViewer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well how else did it play out.
Witness goes to SF rep who in Feb 2017 goes to the Gardai immediately and tells them of his existence thus 'giving Gardai a break in the case' (according to Irish Times).

Detective Inspector asks Adams to help convince the witness. Witness gives evidence.

Is it credible that the DI asked Adams to give a witness permission to give evidence? A witness that SF told the gardai about in the first place?


Spin that one, as they say.

This may be off, Garda want Brady, have witness but are reticent because witness is member of SF and all likelihood judge will be paid up member of FG, it's all political posturing from every angle

Three More Big Sleeps

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

How could these lowlifes ever be allowed hold the justice portfolio in government?

Decades of experience holding the Summary Justice portfolio, no?

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

if you read the link the SF councillor approached the guard about the witness, there seemed to be some reticence with the Gardai in accepting the witness because he was a member of SF, in the end the evidence wasn't used anyway

You are reading it wrong. Very wrong

Direct from the article

"The witness wanted to help but told the detective that, as he was a Sinn Féin member, he was “not sure where he stood” about making an official statement without permission, said Mr Marry."

IAMAMORON

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It really makes you cringe when you see them looking for reform of the Special Criminal Court in one breath and then standing plain face in Dáil Eireann throwing mud at honest politicians trying to run the country. The worst is that people are voting for these scumbags as a viable alternative, voters are lapping up their tripe, scary enough.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

RandomName2

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It really makes you cringe when you see them looking for reform of the Special Criminal Court in one breath and then standing plain face in Dáil Eireann throwing mud at honest politicians trying to run the country. The worst is that people are voting for these scumbags as a viable alternative, voters are lapping up their tripe, scary enough.

There's a small band of crazies foaming at the lips wanting rivers of blood to avenge ancestral pain.

But I think the majority voting for Sinn Fein are just looking for any old party to reduce property prices. The only reason why they're going for Sinn Fein is because (1) that's what Sinn Fein say they'll do (2) they're a big party and (3) they aren't FF or FG.

That's about it really, I think. I don't think that most people care about anything else in relation to the party in general, for better or worse. I don't see Sinn Fein exhibiting any expertise in terms of housing, but to be fair I can't say I can see any other opposition party being markedly better on that front.

IAMAMORON

RandomName2 wrote: »

There's a small band of crazies foaming at the lips wanting rivers of blood to avenge ancestral pain.

But I think the majority voting for Sinn Fein are just looking for any old party to reduce property prices. The only reason why they're going for Sinn Fein is because (1) that's what Sinn Fein say they'll do (2) they're a big party and (3) they aren't FF or FG.

That's about it really, I think. I don't think that most people care about anything else in relation to the party in general, for better or worse. I don't see Sinn Fein exhibiting any expertise in terms of housing, but to be fair I can't say I can see any other opposition party being markedly better on that front.

Spin again please.

Nothing like a bit of "uisce faoi thalamh" to solve the housing crisis. Like voting Sinn Féin is going to stop the predicament of demand and supply?

The spoofology just never ends.

"So Oisín, would you prefer a transtional society run by paramiltaries and hoods, the bhoys told me they were gonna scalp the price a houses like? "

Get a grip.

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Spin again please.

Nothing like a bit of "uisce faoi thalamh" to solve the housing crisis. Like voting Sinn Féin is going to stop the predicament of demand and supply?

The spoofology just never ends.

"So Oisín, would you prefer a transtional society run by paramiltaries and hoods, the bhoys told me they were gonna scalp the price a houses like? "

Get a grip.

Would you rather buy, rent/lease privately to use as social housing or build social housing? Which is the better deal for the tax payer?

RandomViewer

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Spin again please.

Nothing like a bit of "uisce faoi thalamh" to solve the housing crisis. Like voting Sinn Féin is going to stop the predicament of demand and supply?

The spoofology just never ends.

"So Oisín, would you prefer a transtional society run by paramiltaries and hoods, the bhoys told me they were gonna scalp the price a houses like? "

Get a grip.

Is this the FG donations from the Monk?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or reassurance that the Gardai could be trusted.
The 'Gardai' who were handed this witness by a SF rep, the Gardai who apparently turned to Adams for help. If you believe that Adams at the time was the head of a Mafia like organisation of crims....you know what that means don't you?

Again, that's not what happened though is it?

Even if it was, your only making sf look bad by claiming it.

blanch152

RandomViewer wrote: »

I just read the article in the link, evidence wasn't used anyway , my reading was that because the witness was a member of SF he thought this would be an issue for the Gardai not SF .

Now that was good for a laugh. That is the most bizarre interpretation I have read to date, but well done for the imaginative defence of Sinn Fein.

If that was the case, he would have asked the Gardai if that was an issue for them, not Sinn Fein.

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Is this the FG donations from the Monk?

The monk has no criminal convictions and was tax compliant. Kinda like Gerry and the boys

FrancieBrady

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Again, that's not what happened though is it?

Even if it was, your only making sf look bad by claiming it.

Here is what we know according to what has been said by various sources.
The Irish Times
Gardai got a 'break in the case' when contacted by a SF rep with details of a witness.

From SF:
A Detective Inspector asked for Adams help as party leader to convince the witness to give evidence.

The witness gave evidence.

The evidence wasn't used.

McMurphy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The monk has no criminal convictions and was tax compliant. Kinda like Gerry and the boys

Kinda unlike a few from within FG though, including, TDs and Minister's, right the way up to former finance minister.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Would you rather buy, rent/lease privately to use as social housing or build social housing? Which is the better deal for the tax payer?

Depends on the situation. Given the impossibility of building 100,000 houses in a single night, there has to be a mix of provision from a practical point of view.

Unless you live in a utopian world where people work 24/7/365 for nothing, there is little practical alternatives to the way the current government is doing things.

The silly idea put up here every few weeks of diverting all existing money spent on housing to building social housing has been repeatedly shown to end up leaving thousands more homeless in the short term.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Depends on the situation. Given the impossibility of building 100,000 houses in a single night, there has to be a mix of provision from a practical point of view.

Unless you live in a utopian world where people work 24/7/365 for nothing, there is little practical alternatives to the way the current government is doing things.

The silly idea put up here every few weeks of diverting all existing money spent on housing to building social housing has been repeatedly shown to end up leaving thousands more homeless in the short term.

Or 160hr weeks that you know TDs and Minister's put in, regularly. We need more builders like these buckos.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here is what we know according to what has been said by various sources.
The Irish Times
Gardai got a 'break in the case' when contacted by a SF rep with details of a witness.

From SF:
A Detective Inspector asked for Adams help as party leader to convince the witness to give evidence.

The witness gave evidence.

The evidence wasn't used.

And isn't that just the problem? Can you imagine any other political party where the Gardai have to contact the party leader to seek assistance in getting a member to testify? Or even another political party where the Gardai would think that was useful?

It is completely extraordinary that it happened, and shows how unfit Sinn Fein are for government.

JohnnyFlash

It’s so funny seeing the usual suspects getting a reel in their head trying to spin this, and trying to make it a positive. Huge levels of whataboutery, and deflection as well.

Must be extremely tiring constantly having to defend the actions and strange occurrences of Sinn Fein. No wonder there’s so much anger on display.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

And isn't that just the problem? Can you imagine any other political party where the Gardai have to contact the party leader to seek assistance in getting a member to testify? Or even another political party where the Gardai would think that was useful?

It is completely extraordinary that it happened, and shows how unfit Sinn Fein are for government.

So if a member of these other parties you refer to, do something stupid/illegal then that means the party in general are unfit for government. Interesting.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

The Mafia never tell their members to talk to the police. Also he was a witness against Brady.
You'll find many senior or long time political party affiliates will touch base with HQ before possibly involving the party name in something or even looking for legal advice.
I certainly don't find it disgraceful.
Even well to do students go to the school principle before the police.

The Times reporting like its a thing is merely another hatchet job.

Interesting that you compare the relationship of a Sinn Fein member to the Sinn Fein leadership with that of a student to a school principal.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So if a member of these other parties you refer to, do something stupid/illegal then that means the party in general are unfit for government. Interesting.

Complete misrepresentation and distortion of my post, not for the first time.

Answer the questions and stop the obfuscation, misdirection and whataboutery. Here they are again......

Can you imagine any other political party where the Gardai have to contact the party leader to seek assistance in getting a member to testify? Or even another political party where the Gardai would think that was useful?

JohnnyFlash

blanch152 wrote: »

Interesting that you compare the relationship of a Sinn Fein member to the Sinn Fein leadership with that of a student to a school principal.

It was an absolutely ridiculous comparison Bowie was trying to make. Bizarre really.