Sinn Fein Omerta

piplip87

astrofool wrote: »

Maybe the Garda should have checked with the local SF representative first.

Maybe seeing if there was any single female SF councillors ? The last one to Marry a cop killer is now a TD

piplip87

FrancieBrady wrote: »

the media who attempt to embarrass the party politically (an ongoing campaign since the election and before)

Ah here we go again. Let's all remember the true victims of this whole event. Sinn Fein are the victims. The media have it out for them....... Anytime Marylou gets asked a question she can't answer let's blame the media. Anytime SF are exposed for their handling of many murderes, rapes or subsequent cover ups, let blame the media ......

Its not surprising though as the Donald did attend the odd fundraiser back in the day. Maybe he is advising Marylou how to use the term "fake news" and biased media.

FrancieBrady

astrofool wrote: »

Maybe the Garda should have checked with the local SF representative first.

Glib and funny as you think that is, seems to me it's a pretty serious slight on the Gardai again.

If they want trust, they have to be trustworthy.

FrancieBrady

piplip87 wrote: »

Ah here we go again. Let's all remember the true victims of this whole event. Sinn Fein are the victims. The media have it out for them....... Anytime Marylou gets asked a question she can't answer let's blame the media. Anytime SF are exposed for their handling of many murderes, rapes or subsequent cover ups, let blame the media ......

Its not surprising though as the Donald did attend the odd fundraiser back in the day. Maybe he is advising Marylou how to use the term "fake news" and biased media.

Typical cry there.

SF did the right thing here when approached. Hard for you to get away from that fact.

John Hutton

SF should be applauded for encouraging and supporting a key witness to come forward.

The retired Gardai should be condemned for leaking the identity of the witness and those who supported him - they have all been put in danger.

muffler

IAMAMORON wrote: »

honest politicians trying to run the country.

Really? That's news to me.

James Brown

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sinn-f%C3%A9in-witness-consulted-party-over-aaron-brady-case-before-speaking-to-garda%C3%AD-1.4332502

Very strange case here. A witness in a murder trial of a member of AGS refused to speak to police without first checking with the powers that be in Sinn Fein.

That's not normal behaviour for a political party. That's how criminal organisations like the Mafia operate.

Anyone else think this is disgraceful carry on?

The Mafia never tell their members to talk to the police. Also he was a witness against Brady.
You'll find many senior or long time political party affiliates will touch base with HQ before possibly involving the party name in something or even looking for legal advice.
I certainly don't find it disgraceful.
Even well to do students go to the school principle before the police.

The Times reporting like its a thing is merely another hatchet job.

Ush1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What actually happened again:

A nervous witness (we don't know the nature of his reticence BTW) approaches an elected SF councillor and the councillor contacts the Gardai in Feb 2017.

The garda subsequently leaks the information to the media who attempt to embarrass the party politically (an ongoing campaign since the election and before) which is the only reasonable explanation as to why a garda would release this in the middle of an investigation. It certainly wasn't to encourage more witnesses to come forward anyhow.

Again...am I missing anything about this?

Or would it be that members of the public with information on a crime should go directly to AGS rather than getting "advice" off a local councillor first?

James Brown

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Are they not, currently, “under orders” to step back from “engaging”, P?

I thought you lads were lost. Welcome back

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What’s going to be the more interesting story is who the TD contacted for advice on the matter.

Maria Bailey Thread

FrancieBrady

Ush1 wrote: »

Or would it be that members of the public with information on a crime should go directly to AGS rather than getting "advice" off a local councillor first?

Ideally yes.
But the simple fact of an abnormal society (and it is still in some quarters) that the Gardai and PSNI are not trusted.

Would YOU be happy if a Garda did this to you for what can only be political purposes.
If somebody broke the law here in how this was handled the appropriate action was the Gardai to take them to court. Not leak info about an ongoing case to the media.

FrancieBrady

tyrdfffh wrote: »

Are you and your mates Bowie et al getting paid to spend all day every day defending Sinn Fein on boards.ie?

Would you not get a job and contribute something of value to the country?

I'm semi retired...why are you not at work?

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It really makes you cringe when you see them looking for reform of the Special Criminal Court in one breath and then standing plain face in Dáil Eireann throwing mud at honest politicians trying to run the country. The worst is that people are voting for these scumbags as a viable alternative, voters are lapping up their tripe, scary enough.

When the boyos create a tribunal with teeth and consequences for their decades of crony and 'inappropriate behaviour' get back to me.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

The Mafia never tell their members to talk to the police. Also he was a witness against Brady.
You'll find many senior or long time political party affiliates will touch base with HQ before possibly involving the party name in something or even looking for legal advice.
I certainly don't find it disgraceful.
Even well to do students go to the school principle before the police.

The Times reporting like its a thing is merely another hatchet job.

No sorry, a ff member does not need to contact head office to get permission to make a statement to police. Absolutely not.

Of they are a suspect they may seek legal advise. If it's a party issue, they will take to senior people but a witness in a murder? No.

I'll defend sf here though, they appear to have made active effort to facilitate the investigation team.

FrancieBrady

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No sorry, a ff member does not need to contact head office to get permission to make a statement to police. Absolutely not.

Of they are a suspect they may seek legal advise. If it's a party issue, they will take to senior people but a witness in a murder? No.

I'll defend sf here though, they appear to have made active effort to facilitate the investigation team.

So you have assumed it was 'permission' and not 'reassurance'.

Excellent.

Ush1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ideally yes.
But the simple fact of an abnormal society (and it is still in some quarters) that the Gardai and PSNI are not trusted.

Would YOU be happy if a Garda did this to you for what can only be political purposes.
If somebody broke the law here in how this was handled the appropriate action was the Gardai to take them to court. Not leak info about an ongoing case to the media.

I wouldn't go to a politician about a crime I witnessed so I can't answer that.

Do you think it's right that people are effectively vetting information through politicians(who you said aren't trustworthy anyway) than to AGS?

FrancieBrady

Ush1 wrote: »

I wouldn't go to a politician about a crime I witnessed so I can't answer that.

Do you think it's right that people are effectively vetting information through politicians(who you said aren't trustworthy anyway) than to AGS?

No it isn't right.
Lots of things about a post conflict/war society are not right.

The fact is that large parts of communities that went through the conflict/war still do not trust the gardai.
Many in what is considered normal society do not trust the Gardai and frankly, this further evidence of leaking info for political purposes is very concerning to me. How many times does it need to happen until people ask questions?

Dyr

I seem to remember taking flak for posting something about never voluntarily becoming involved with AGS because they are dangerous

Well, here is a classic example why, fella does the right thing, gives vital evidence that convicts a cop killer and still gets f****d over by a garda just because it suited his book to f**k him over.

James Brown

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No sorry, a ff member does not need to contact head office to get permission to make a statement to police. Absolutely not.

Of they are a suspect they may seek legal advise. If it's a party issue, they will take to senior people but a witness in a murder? No.

I'll defend sf here though, they appear to have made active effort to facilitate the investigation team.

I've no idea what the situation is with any party. We don't know he was made to. I would suggest you are free to do so should you wish.
You can call your Granny or pal too I'd imagine. It's not something I would do. Likely I'd contact friend or family myself. It's unlikely people wouldn't talk to anybody.
If SF are found to have obstructed justice those responsible should be held to account.
Here we have another case of the finer details of a case being leaked. I don't recall any stories about who a witness did or did not contact before speaking with the police. Accused folk, yes. This reads like the Times trying to link SF to the murder, even though the chap was a witness against. It's of little consequence. This kind of spin is tired and dried up. The lads will get a few hours of japes before we get back to the troubles etc.

"nothing to see here"

lol ye are gas lads.

the next little thing worth having a dig at from the parties that actually run the country will be worth twenty threads from the usual accounts, but this is not worth a mention.

be funny if it wasnt actually deeply serious

IAMAMORON

Bowie wrote: »

The Mafia never tell their members to talk to the police. Also he was a witness against Brady.
You'll find many senior or long time political party affiliates will touch base with HQ before possibly involving the party name in something or even looking for legal advice.
I certainly don't find it disgraceful.
Even well to do students go to the school principle before the police.

The Times reporting like its a thing is merely another hatchet job.

Condones an Italian criminal organisation with a reputation for Kidnapping, Extortion and Capital Murder. Responsible for the murder of thousands of Italian citizens. Compares it to the IRA.

Then compares it with telling tales to the school principle?

The party "name"..... I will go into hysterical convulsions soon enough, I reckon that ship has sailed, keep it up though, ducky air law etc.

Hubertj

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No it isn't right.
Lots of things about a post conflict/war society are not right.

The fact is that large parts of communities that went through the conflict/war still do not trust the gardai.
Many in what is considered normal society do not trust the Gardai and frankly, this further evidence of leaking info for political purposes is very concerning to me. How many times does it need to happen until people ask questions?

to clarify, there was a terrorist campaign, not a war/ conflict.

Secondly, i think the story is much ado about nothing. The guy did the right thing giving evidence. However, if i was stupid enough to be a member of SF, i would likely talk to the party about it before going to AGS. That is understandable given the history and SF IRA links to crime etc.

FrancieBrady

Hubertj wrote: »

to clarify, there was a terrorist campaign, not a war/ conflict.

Secondly, i think the story is much ado about nothing. The guy did the right thing giving evidence. However, if i was stupid enough to be a member of SF, i would likely talk to the party about it before going to AGS. That is understandable given the history and SF IRA links to crime etc.

The Gardai leaking info for political purposes though...understandable given their history?

The alrming thing about this is the feigned outrage/surprise that some don't trust the Gardai or PSNI yet.

Will this help in building trust? I doubt it.

RandomViewer

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

How could these lowlifes ever be allowed hold the justice portfolio in government?

Michael Noonan was minister for justice in the 1980s, can't get much lower than that.

IAMAMORON

RandomViewer wrote: »

Michael Noonan was minister for justice in the 1980s, can't get much lower than that.

Of course, I distinctly remember Noonan being knee deep in Kidnapping, extortion, kneecapping and murdering civilians during his career as a free state TD. :rolleyes:

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Condones an Italian criminal organisation with a reputation for Kidnapping, Extortion and Capital Murder. Responsible for the murder of thousands of Italian citizens. Compares it to the IRA.

Then compares it with telling tales to the school principle?

The party "name"..... I will go into hysterical convulsions soon enough, I reckon that ship has sailed, keep it up though, ducky air law etc.

I don't see how your dislike of ethnic minorities plays into this.

Can you not read chief or are you just making up ****e?

RandomViewer

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Of course, I distinctly remember Noonan being knee deep in Kidnapping, extortion, kneecapping and murdering civilians during his career as a free state TD. :rolleyes:

Look up Bridget Mc Cole his behaviour was directly responsible for her premature death , should have been thrown out of the Dail back then, oh and ask Garda Williams was Baldy a person of interest in the mid 90s, Youve heard the same rumours as everyone else.

FrancieBrady

SF's angle is that a Detective Inspector went to Adams for help apparently.

If true that is pretty seismic really. That Adams did help and reassured the witness and he testified and gave the Gardai the break in the case, is really a step forward.

A Garda releasing this info is a step back though and a betrayal of trust.

That would be my read of it, if that is the way it happened.

smurgen

Bambi wrote: »

I seem to remember taking flak for posting something about never voluntarily becoming involved with AGS because they are dangerous

Well, here is a classic example why, fella does the right thing, gives vital evidence that convicts a cop killer and still gets f****d over by a garda just because it suited his book to f**k him over.

Nail on the head. Let's not forget the head of the gardai Drew Harris said that Mary Lou was the head of the IRA army council with no evidence at the height of the election and was not questioned about this to a great extent. This was repeated by Leo at the time and not one shred of evidence produced. He should have been forced to resign for interference in the election. He clearly is so biased against SF that he would work with Government parties to undermine our democratic elections.

https://www.thejournal.ie/harris-ira-sinn-fein-comments-5023259-Feb2020/

seamus

John Hutton wrote: »

If I was privy to information that could jail one member of a large murderous gang I would seek advice from people I trust in the large murderous gang before giving a statement to the Gardai.

FYP

I trust my Dad, but I don't think he'd be much help if I was trying to decide whether testifying against a gang member is a good idea. I'd search out someone who knew the gang well enough to clear it with them.

Just like this witness did.