Sinn Fein Omerta

end of the road

markodaly wrote: »

Like it was not IRA policy to blow up toddlers and kill women, but **** happens... right?

not what i said at all and it's not something i would say.
i have been clear, plenty of times across multiple threads on the subject and i will be clear again, i never have and do not condone civilian killings regardless of who they were or are carried out by.
what i stated was that from anything i have read on the subject, it doesn't look to have been IRA policy to target civilians, all be it elements of it did so, yet it was not sanctioned by the organisation.
it was wrong for them to carry out those acts.

Edgware

end of the road wrote: »

not what i said at all and it's not something i would say.
i have been clear, plenty of times across multiple threads on the subject and i will be clear again, i never have and do not condone civilian killings regardless of who they were or are carried out by.
what i stated was that from anything i have read on the subject, it doesn't look to have been IRA policy to target civilians, all be it elements of it did so, yet it was not sanctioned by the organisation.
it was wrong for them to carry out those acts.

So what were the military targets in the Le Mon hotel and the Birmingham pubs, Bloody Friday in Belfast? Were they all unauthorised actions?
You are posting absolute rubbish

Truthvader

end of the road wrote: »

not what i said at all and it's not something i would say.
i have been clear, plenty of times across multiple threads on the subject and i will be clear again, i never have and do not condone civilian killings regardless of who they were or are carried out by.
what i stated was that from anything i have read on the subject, it doesn't look to have been IRA policy to target civilians, all be it elements of it did so, yet it was not sanctioned by the organisation.
it was wrong for them to carry out those acts.

Just who is this drivel directed at?

onh81

Edgware wrote: »

So what were the military targets in the Le Mon hotel and the Birmingham pubs, Bloody Friday in Belfast? Were they all unauthorised actions?
You are posting absolute rubbish

Edgware, we get it, you hate republicanism but don’t let your hatred cloud your ability to think rationally.

The IRA didn’t always target military targets. Even someone with the most remedial knowledge of the troubles appreciates they also targeted economic, political and infrastructural targets.

No one disputes the IRA killed civilians. No one is condoning it. No one is excusing it. In all cases you mention the IRA had fücked up their warnings. In all cases innocent civilians sadly lost their lives. To suggest the IRA deliberately targeted and killed them as part of a wider policy aimed at innocent civilians however is well wide of the mark and is the kind of hysterical revisionism that would make most loyalists blush. A brief look at those killed by the IRA will show the vast majority were security forces.

IAMAMORON

onh81 wrote: »

Edgware, we get it, you hate republicanism but don’t let your hatred cloud your ability to think rationally.

The IRA didn’t always target military targets. Even someone with the most remedial knowledge of the troubles appreciates they also targeted economic, political and infrastructural targets.

No one disputes the IRA killed civilians. No one is condoning it. No one is excusing it. In all cases you mention the IRA had fücked up their warnings. In all cases innocent civilians sadly lost their lives. To suggest the IRA deliberately targeted and killed them as part of a wider policy aimed at innocent civilians however is well wide of the mark and is the kind of hysterical revisionism that would make most loyalists blush. A brief look at those killed by the IRA will show the vast majority were security forces.

Mmmmmmm. Say that to the people of Enniskillen or Omagh.

Or Warrington.

Or Guildford

Or Birmingham

Or the 508 " civilians " murdered during the troubles. That's right 508 times people were murdered by apparent "missed targets" as your explanation so poorly explains. That is a lot of phuck ups pal, a lot.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/

In fairness you will get more respect if you admit to the atrocities that went on and blamed them on the war itself. You don't get away with trying to massage over the truth, not in my book anyway.

batman75

In terms of dealing with the past what would SF need to do to be more palatable to the majority of the Irish people?

James Brown

batman75 wrote: »

In terms of dealing with the past what would SF need to do to be more palatable to the majority of the Irish people?

I think they do alright as regards the majority of the electorate.
I'd lose respect for any party tries re-write it's history to cadge a few votes.

blanch152

end of the road wrote: »

not what i said at all and it's not something i would say.
i have been clear, plenty of times across multiple threads on the subject and i will be clear again, i never have and do not condone civilian killings regardless of who they were or are carried out by.
what i stated was that from anything i have read on the subject, it doesn't look to have been IRA policy to target civilians, all be it elements of it did so, yet it was not sanctioned by the organisation.
it was wrong for them to carry out those acts.

If you plant a bomb in a place where there are civilians, you target civilians.

You may only be targeting them to terrorise them rather than kill them, but it is a bare face brazen lie to say that the IRA did not target civilians. No amount of rightthink or doublethink will change that.

blanch152

batman75 wrote: »

In terms of dealing with the past what would SF need to do to be more palatable to the majority of the Irish people?

Fess up would be a start, then when the whole bloody thing is laid out in full when they admit it, they could be properly judged.

None of this truth and reconciliation stuff from them, this is needed for the electorate down South to see the truth and judge. No hiding, no equivocation, after all what have they to hide?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Fess up would be a start, then when the whole bloody thing is laid out in full when they admit it, they could be properly judged.

None of this truth and reconciliation stuff from them, this is needed for the electorate down South to see the truth and judge. No hiding, no equivocation, after all what have they to hide?

They don't have a problem with a truth recovery process if all sides take part.

The British and Loyalists won't take part.

joseywhales

I could never vote for them, not just because of the civilian deaths. To me their history is too connected with the provisional ira. They came down here to the republic of ireland pointed guns in my parents faces and demanded money at banks in order to fund their "war" which was not sanctioned by us or anyone I know. My mom's friend was killed in the dublin bombing, men in balaclavas appeared at the funeral to "pay their respects" uninvited, parents were devastated. Using an innocent Irish girl's death as a recruitment opportunity for their agenda. Those people are not patriots. They have no honor. Sinn fein are a political party with new faces but I do not believe that they would work against the interests of former ira leadership if it was in the interest of the Irish state, therefore they have a conflict of interest which means I would never vote for them.

I would also be concerned about any intervention in the administration of the gardai when it comes to policing republican paramilitaries. They would be more palatable if they condemned convicted men like slab murphy instead of trying to undermine his conviction by calling for a trial by jury or referring to him as a "good republican". I think them taking an active role in turning on their own and helping the state to convict a republican criminal would go some way to creating trust.

Truthvader

blanch152 wrote: »

Fess up would be a start, then when the whole bloody thing is laid out in full when they admit it, they could be properly judged.

None of this truth and reconciliation stuff from them, this is needed for the electorate down South to see the truth and judge. No hiding, no equivocation, after all what have they to hide?

£26,000,000

Edgware

Apart from the sectarian murder campaign which their military wing carried out the magic beans economics policies would hammer decent working people and benefit the welfare spongers

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They don't have a problem with a truth recovery process if all sides take part.

The British and Loyalists won't take part.

The British and Loyalists aren’t running for election in this State, so I don’t give a fu@k whether they take part. Only need Sinn Fein and Aontu and a few other lowlifes to take part down here. Full accountability for everything they have done.

batman75

Is it in Gerry Adam’s gift to unburden SF from it’s sins of the past? I think that Adams knew of and has knowledge of most of the IRA operations since 70s right up to the murder of Jock Davison. If he were to offer a comprehensive disclosure of all he knows in return for immunity from prosecution that would be a start.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The British and Loyalists aren’t running for election in this State, so I don’t give a fu@k whether they take part. Only need Sinn Fein and Aontu and a few other lowlifes to take part down here. Full accountability for everything they have done.

And you kick the memory of John Hume in the face with your partitionist nonsense. That didn't take long.
The solution to the conflict/war was what it had to be 'an all Ireland one', so to must be the recovery and healing. Your lust for one-sided retribution will be resisted and batted away again and again.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And you kick the memory of John Hume in the face with your partitionist nonsense. That didn't take long.
The solution to the conflict/war was what it had to be 'an all Ireland one', so to must be the recovery and healing. Your lust for one-sided retribution will be resisted and batted away again and again.

Again, who cares about that, except you? We can deal with that if ever the people of the North vote for unity. In the meantime, a crowd of psychopaths are trying to get elected in the South. Let’s hear the truth about them.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, who cares about that, except you? We can deal with that if ever the people of the North vote for unity. In the meantime, a crowd of psychopaths are trying to get elected in the South. Let’s hear the truth about them.

As they say...you don't need the 'truth', allegations are sufficient for you.

How is barring them gates working out for you and the Greens? (I presume that is the 'we' you refer to?)

jm08

joseywhales wrote: »

I could never vote for them, not just because of the civilian deaths. To me their history is too connected with the provisional ira. They came down here to the republic of ireland pointed guns in my parents faces and demanded money at banks in order to fund their "war" which was not sanctioned by us or anyone I know. My mom's friend was killed in the dublin bombing, men in balaclavas appeared at the funeral to "pay their respects" uninvited, parents were devastated. Using an innocent Irish girl's death as a recruitment opportunity for their agenda. Those people are not patriots. They have no honor. Sinn fein are a political party with new faces but I do not believe that they would work against the interests of former ira leadership if it was in the interest of the Irish state, therefore they have a conflict of interest which means I would never vote for them.

I would also be concerned about any intervention in the administration of the gardai when it comes to policing republican paramilitaries. They would be more palatable if they condemned convicted men like slab murphy instead of trying to undermine his conviction by calling for a trial by jury or referring to him as a "good republican". I think them taking an active role in turning on their own and helping the state to convict a republican criminal would go some way to creating trust.

I too have a friend whose mother was killed in the Dublin bombings. You do realise that it was loyalists aided by MI5 were responsible for that bombing? Both the British & Irish States have been more than reticient in providing information to the families of the victims. Thats why FFG are terrified that Sinn Fein will actually dig up their part in the cover-up.


Slab Murphy was convicted by the way and you do realise that there were plenty of IRA soldiers imprisoned in the south. There was a republican wing in Portlaoise Jail.



Its hard to see how you actually trust FFG bearing in mind their mucky past and complicity in covering up the Dublin-Monaghan bombings.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, who cares about that, except you? We can deal with that if ever the people of the North vote for unity. In the meantime, a crowd of psychopaths are trying to get elected in the South. Let’s hear the truth about them.

Name the psychopaths that are trying to get elected?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As they say...you don't need the 'truth', allegations are sufficient for you.

How is barring them gates working out for you and the Greens? (I presume that is the 'we' you refer to?)

Why are Sinn Fein supporters so afraid of the truth coming out? Seriously like, if you are so proud of everything that your heroes in Sinn Fein and the IRA did, why are you so afraid of it coming out?

Why don’t you want them to just fess up, get it over with, and move on to the next election?

end of the road

the electorate are very happy with sf, the voting numbers are growing and as the last election shows they are now within an ear shot of being in government.
all they need to do is to keep selling their modernisation plan to the public.

IAMAMORON

jm08 wrote: »

Its hard to see how you actually trust FFG bearing in mind their mucky past and complicity in covering up the Dublin-Monaghan bombings.

Absolute garbage. Why bother? There has never been any evidence of either party involved. Pure rubbish talk.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Why are Sinn Fein supporters so afraid of the truth coming out? Seriously like, if you are so proud of everything that your heroes in Sinn Fein and the IRA did, why are you so afraid of it coming out?

Why don’t you want them to just fess up, get it over with, and move on to the next election?

Because I think that would completely destroy what has been achieved. Something I know you don't care about as you and your hero's carve the state up between you over din dins.

One side telling what they know would be so destabilising and painful for the people who actually got hurt and had loved one's killed on all sides, it would be criminal to do it.

But all you want is the wet dream of some partitionists - 'Get Gerry', the cost doesn't come into it.

What needs to happen is an open and transparent truth process that has everyone at the table...including the Irish players in the conflict...all of them.

joseywhales

jm08 wrote: »

I too have a friend whose mother was killed in the Dublin bombings. You do realise that it was loyalists aided by MI5 were responsible for that bombing? Both the British & Irish States have been more than reticient in providing information to the families of the victims. Thats why FFG are terrified that Sinn Fein will actually dig up their part in the cover-up.


Slab Murphy was convicted by the way and you do realise that there were plenty of IRA soldiers imprisoned in the south. There was a republican wing in Portlaoise Jail.



Its hard to see how you actually trust FFG bearing in mind their mucky past and complicity in covering up the Dublin-Monaghan bombings.

I do not understand what MI5 have to do with it. Why would uninvited members of the "ira" show up at a funeral?

Some people do not believe in violence even when it is committed against them, it is not your right to choose for them.

Slab murphy was referred to as "a good republican" by Gerry Adams after the criminal assets bureau investigation led to his conviction.

You are right about one thing, there are ira criminals in prison in the south and slab murphy was convicted but this happened not because sinn fein were in power but rather because they were not in power.

Regarding fffg, can you provide evidence that they were complicit in a cover-up of the dublin Monaghan bombings?

IAMAMORON

end of the road wrote: »

the electorate are very happy with sf, the voting numbers are growing and as the last election shows they are now within an ear shot of being in government.
all they need to do is to keep selling their modernisation plan to the public.

In stitches over here, modernise my winking brown eye. Sinn Féin actually have a plan? Pleeeeeeeeeaaassse. Enough with the trap talk, more garbage.

We'd be worse than Cuba except for the weather. Gang of idealistic clowns, the whole country would be broke over night.

Who is going to pay for this modernisation? Are we going to Slab & Co for handouts and a fresh economic outlook?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because I think that would completely destroy what has been achieved. Something I know you don't care about as you and your hero's carve the state up between you over din dins.

One side telling what they know would be so destabilising and painful for the people who actually got hurt and had loved one's killed on all sides, it would be criminal to do it.

But all you want is the wet dream of some partitionists - 'Get Gerry', the cost doesn't come into it.

What needs to happen is an open and transparent truth process that has everyone at the table...including the Irish players in the conflict...all of them.

At least you can finally admit that the truth about what Sinn Fein did would totally repulse normal people.

end of the road

Edgware wrote: »

Apart from the sectarian murder campaign which their military wing carried out the magic beans economics policies would hammer decent working people and benefit the welfare spongers

you are thinking of another party as sf don't have such policies.

blanch152 wrote: »

Why are Sinn Fein supporters so afraid of the truth coming out? Seriously like, if you are so proud of everything that your heroes in Sinn Fein and the IRA did, why are you so afraid of it coming out?

Why don’t you want them to just fess up, get it over with, and move on to the next election?

sf are not afraid of the truth, that is the british, loyalists and ff/fg.
until they agree to take part in any truth process then sf is entitled to not reveal anything that already isn't know.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

At least you can finally admit that the truth about what Sinn Fein did would totally repulse normal people.

No, the truth about what the IRA would, and the truth about what they all did. Because the violence was wrong from the start.

But blanch only wants the 'truth' from his boogeymen. God if only for once you took those cudgels up on behalf of some of the other victims you might have some honour and credibility.

onh81

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Mmmmmmm. Say that to the people of Enniskillen or Omagh.

Or Warrington.

Or Guildford

Or Birmingham

Or the 508 " civilians " murdered during the troubles. That's right 508 times people were murdered by apparent "missed targets" as your explanation so poorly explains. That is a lot of phuck ups pal, a lot.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/

In fairness you will get more respect if you admit to the atrocities that went on and blamed them on the war itself. You don't get away with trying to massage over the truth, not in my book anyway.

I see you’re living up to your name. If you’re going to pretend you know what you’re talking about, please don’t engage in revisionism.

508 civilian fatalities is 508 too many but still only constitutes 29% of those killed by the IRA. Compare that to the British army’s rate of civilian deaths (50%), the RUC (54%) the UDR (63%). The loyalists are even worse, now they *specifically* targeted civilians (almost 900)