Sinn Fein Omerta

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has to be asked, is it right that a senior Gardai can release information like this.

It's the fault of the Gardai, yeah.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Complete misrepresentation and distortion of my post, not for the first time.

Answer the questions and stop the obfuscation, misdirection and whataboutery. Here they are again......

Can you imagine any other political party where the Gardai have to contact the party leader to seek assistance in getting a member to testify? Or even another political party where the Gardai would think that was useful?

Of course I could. Why wouldn't they if the witness thought it had something to do with FG or FF or the Greens etc?
That would be sound policework imo.
What is not sound policework though is leaking info to the media in the middle of an ongoing investigation.
Any comment on that or any idea what the purpose of it was, given SF seem to have done the correct thing from the get go.

James Brown

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The monk has no criminal convictions and was tax compliant. Kinda like Gerry and the boys

Unlike Fine Gael

...and here

and here...

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course I could. Why wouldn't they if the witness thought it had something to do with FG or FF or the Greens etc?
That would be sound policework imo.
What is not sound policework though is leaking info to the media in the middle of an ongoing investigation.
Any comment on that or any idea what the purpose of it was, given SF seem to have done the correct thing from the get go.

Oh, so you are saying that the Gardai and/or the witness had reason to believe that the killing of Adrian Donohoe had something to do with Sinn Fein. That makes more sense all right that the witness would go to the Sinn Fein leadership all right.

Unfortunately, it only strengthens the argument that Sinn Fein are unfit for government given that even its own members would believe that the killing of a Garda would have somethig to do with the party.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Unlike Fine Gael

Desperate situation requires desperate post. Seriously, that is the response?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Oh, so you are saying that the Gardai and/or the witness had reason to believe that the killing of Adrian Donohoe had something to do with Sinn Fein. That makes more sense all right that the witness would go to the Sinn Fein leadership all right.

Unfortunately, it only strengthens the argument that Sinn Fein are unfit for government given that even its own members would believe that the killing of a Garda would have somethig to do with the party.

:D:D I can hear the stretching from here.

The witness thought his being a SF member was a problem...that is all we know about the nature of that.
Even if he thought as people have been inferring from day one on here that SF had something to do with it, SF did the right thing...the councillor informed the Gardai of the witnesses existence thus (according to the Irish Times) giving Gardai their break in the case. And Adams responded to the Garda's request for help with the witness and he gave evidence.

is there anything else here other than the usual faux outrage and insinuation?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Depends on the situation. Given the impossibility of building 100,000 houses in a single night, there has to be a mix of provision from a practical point of view.

Unless you live in a utopian world where people work 24/7/365 for nothing, there is little practical alternatives to the way the current government is doing things.

The silly idea put up here every few weeks of diverting all existing money spent on housing to building social housing has been repeatedly shown to end up leaving thousands more homeless in the short term.

Yeah that didn't really fly before, now several years on it's just in bad taste to keep up the lies. It's always short term need if you never plan long term. But then that's another falsehood. There is no intention of building at any point over leasing/buying...despite...

Revealed: State spends €1.2bn on housing even though building is cheaper

No tax monies for pals in the form of buying, renting, leasing, if we build our own.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is not sound policework though is leaking info to the media in the middle of an ongoing investigation.
Any comment on that or any idea what the purpose of it was, given SF seem to have done the correct thing from the get go.

How would this info affect the ongoing case? Also the why is pretty obvious. You honestly can't think of any reasons why a Guard wouldn't be a fan of SF?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Desperate situation requires desperate post. Seriously, that is the response?

It was regarding tax compliance and criminal convictions. What, you want me to raise something from the troubles?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

How would this info affect the ongoing case? Also the why is pretty obvious. You honestly can't think of any reasons why a Guard wouldn't be a fan of SF?

Would you trust the Gardai with your info after that? This garda has completely undermined any confidentiality you might expect if you go to them with sensitive information.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D I can hear the stretching from here.

The witness thought his being a SF member was a problem...that is all we know about the nature of that.
Even if he thought as people have been inferring from day one on here that SF had something to do with it, SF did the right thing...the councillor informed the Gardai of the witnesses existence thus (according to the Irish Times) giving Gardai their break in the case. And Adams responded to the Garda's request for help with the witness and he gave evidence.

is there anything else here other than the usual faux outrage and insinuation?

Again, all perfectly understandable from the perspective that Sinn Fein are unfit for government because of their dodgy relationship with the IRA and with criminal elements.

RandomViewer

blanch152 wrote: »

Now that was good for a laugh. That is the most bizarre interpretation I have read to date, but well done for the imaginative defence of Sinn Fein.

If that was the case, he would have asked the Gardai if that was an issue for them, not Sinn Fein.

Guards needed a conviction, most judges are members of FG , if the witness had been a member of the BNP or the KKK you'd be flying but the mere mention of SF would have jeopardized the trial.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would you trust the Gardai with your info after that? This garda has completely undermined any confidentiality you might expect if you go to them with sensitive information.

What confidential info relevant to the case or person has been revealed?

JohnnyFlash

Has anyone worked out why this dude felt he had to run it by Gerry Adams first before he went to the Gardaí?

Like if a FG member had vital information on the murder of a police officer then he wouldn’t have to ask Leo for advice and the nod of approval before going to the police.

What a deeply unpleasant and shady party SF are. Things like this and the Bobby Storey funeral allow society to see that behind the thin facade of respectability lie a party who hates the Irish state, all it stands for, and takes its instructions from sociopaths and serial killers from Belfast.

Yuck.

RandomViewer

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The monk has no criminal convictions and was tax compliant. Kinda like Gerry and the boys

Gerry has a record from memory, can't be arsed looking it up, but your confirmation that FG are beholden to the Monk is much appreciated

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, all perfectly understandable from the perspective that Sinn Fein are unfit for government because of their dodgy relationship with the IRA and with criminal elements.

Where is the IRA involvement here?

Have you completely jumped the shark? If the IRA were involved then why have the Gardai not informed the government of that. They have duties under the GFA if the IRA are still operational.

Are you insinuating the Gardai are covering up an IRA crime here? What are you saying?

RandomViewer

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Has anyone worked out why this dude felt he had to run it by Gerry Adams first before he went to the Gardaí?

Like if a FG member had vital information on the murder of a police officer then he wouldn’t have to ask Leo for advice and the nod of approval before going to the police.

What a deeply unpleasant and shady party SF are. Things like this and the Bobby Storey funeral allow society to see that behind the thin facade of respectability lie a party who hates the Irish state, all it stands for, and takes its instructions from sociopaths and serial killers from Belfast.

Yuck.

SF councillor brought the witness to the guard's in the first place, my only reading would be to check that this guard could be trusted, would imagine there rivalry in the diesel laundering industry and every guard has a side line.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where is the IRA involvement here?

Have you completely jumped the shark? If the IRA were involved then why have the Gardai not informed the government of that. They have duties under the GFA if the IRA are still operational.

Are you insinuating the Gardai are covering up an IRA crime here? What are you saying?

Yawn, you know full well what I am saying. The mere fact that a member felt the need to go to the party leadership before talking to the Gardai tells the story of a state within a state. Not a good look at all.

Bowie's comparison of a schoolchild seeking advice from the school principal before going to the police is an apt one, and shows the control that Sinn Fein have over its members.

JohnnyFlash

RandomViewer wrote: »

SF councillor brought the witness to the guard's in the first place, my only reading would be to check that this guard could be trusted, would imagine there rivalry in the diesel laundering industry and every guard has a side line.

LOL!

RandomViewer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where is the IRA involvement here?

Have you completely jumped the shark? If the IRA were involved then why have the Gardai not informed the government of that. They have duties under the GFA if the IRA are still operational.

Are you insinuating the Gardai are covering up an IRA crime here? What are you saying?

Willie McCrea and the Christmas lights in Magherafelt. He was the official light switcher, flicks the switch , the trip blew, he blamed the Ra

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where is the IRA involvement here?

Have you completely jumped the shark? If the IRA were involved then why have the Gardai not informed the government of that. They have duties under the GFA if the IRA are still operational.

Are you insinuating the Gardai are covering up an IRA crime here? What are you saying?

Its quite clear the only thing this story is for is more shinner ballbaggery.
If PBP handed FG their arse and put the FF/FG party in jeopardy we'd be reading about them.

IAMAMORON

RandomViewer wrote: »

SF councillor brought the witness to the guard's in the first place, my only reading would be to check that this guard could be trusted, would imagine there rivalry in the diesel laundering industry and every guard has a side line.

This is the best one ever.

Cops are now involved in a diesel smuggling shakedown?

Gotta love it, I would say Slab is shighting in his pants alright?

RandomViewer

IAMAMORON wrote: »

This is the best one ever.

Cops are now involved in a diesel smuggling shakedown?

Gotta love it, I would say Slab is shighting in his pants alright?

Look up the Morris tribunal,

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yawn, you know full well what I am saying. The mere fact that a member felt the need to go to the party leadership before talking to the Gardai tells the story of a state within a state. Not a good look at all.

Bowie's comparison of a schoolchild seeking advice from the school principal before going to the police is an apt one, and shows the control that Sinn Fein have over its members.

We must run a competition sometime that compares silly/mis-informed/illegal/ actions of party members and try and pin it on the party in general.

I think you know yourself what a nonsense this all is blanch. Your stretching is giving you away.

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

This is the best one ever.

Cops are now involved in a diesel smuggling shakedown?

Gotta love it, I would say Slab is shighting in his pants alright?

Ever ask yourself why there hasn't been a crackdown on this activity...it isn't exactly an operation you can carry on discreetly.

rdwight

RandomViewer wrote: »

SF councillor brought the witness to the guard's in the first place, my only reading would be to check that this guard could be trusted, would imagine there rivalry in the diesel laundering industry and every guard has a side line.

Potential witness feels the need to check with SF before giving evidence against criminal from Crossmaglen with murky associates and shinnerbots here claim it's to check if an Garda can be trusted. LOL


I wonder if the prosecution witnesses who failed to give evidence in the Jerry McCabe murder trial also consulted with their local republicans to check if "an Garda could be trusted". Or perhaps they were offered advice on that matter without actually asking for it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/new-laws-on-witness-intimidation-follow-mccabe-case-controversy-1.150964

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ever ask yourself why there hasn't been a crackdown on this activity...it isn't exactly an operation you can carry on discreetly.

Maybe because witnesses seek permission from SF first!

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Maybe because witnesses seek permission from SF first!

Why would they need witnesses to raid a fuel laundering operation?

IAMAMORON

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ever ask yourself why there hasn't been a crackdown on this activity...it isn't exactly an operation you can carry on discreetly.

You should mention to your local SF rep that you suspect there is Garda collusion with the Diesel Smuggling, especially if you think it should be brought to the attention of the Dept of Justice? In fact if you are aware of any such state sponsored racketeering you should report it as being the good upstanding citizen you are?

RandomViewer

rdwight wrote: »

Potential witness feels the need to check with SF before giving evidence against criminal from Crossmaglen with murky associates and shinnerbots here claim it's to check if an Garda can be trusted. LOL


I wonder if the prosecution witnesses who failed to give evidence in the Jerry McCabe murder trial also consulted with their local republicans to check if "an Garda could be trusted". Or perhaps they were offered advice on that matter without actually asking for it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/new-laws-on-witness-intimidation-follow-mccabe-case-controversy-1.150964

Why bring witness to Garda in first place then, again if you want examples of intimidation read the Morris tribunal report or just phone big Frank.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would they need witnesses to raid a fuel laundering operation?

Need witnesses for a prosecution generally. Lets say farmer A saw a local "Good Republican" dump waste in a river, rang Gerry and Gerry said he's one of ours you saw nothing.

How about another example? Pub full of SF members and a man gets gutted on the orders of a "Good Republican" and nobody in the pub saw anything......oh wait that actually happened!

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You should mention to your local SF rep that you suspect there is Garda collusion with the Diesel Smuggling, especially if you think it should be brought to the attention of the Dept of Justice? In fact if you are aware of any such state sponsored racketeering you should report it as being the good upstanding citizen you are?

I don't have any info, just a question. like the one in the Kevin Lunney case. It amasses me that 8 years of incidents can go by in this area without a single arrest, intimidating roadsigns can be up along a public road and suddenly on the say so of a higher authority and under public pressure the Gardai can act on these things. Loads of other questions on that one but I won't divert the thread.

Odd.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Need witnesses for a prosecution generally. Lets say farmer A saw a local "Good Republican" dump waste in a river, rang Gerry and Gerry said he's one of ours you saw nothing.

How about another example? Pub full of SF members and a man gets gutted on the orders of a "Good Republican" and nobody in the pub saw anything......oh wait that actually happened!

But we know Gerry said no such thing in this case. Why would he do it in a fuel launderng one?

A decent prolonged series of roadblocks would shut down fuel laundering unless they figure a way to move it in 5 gallon drums...or a series of stings on those buying it and having it dellivered...but nothing like that ever happens.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But we know Gerry said no such thing in this case. Why would he do it in a fuel launderng one?

A decent prolonged series of roadblocks would shut down fuel laundering unless they figure a way to move it in 5 gallon drums...or a series of stings on those buying it and having it dellivered...but nothing like that ever happens.

But we do have "omerta" from SF the night McCartney was murdered by the IRA and now a member looking for permission to give evidence for a murder. Throw in the guy who testified against "Good Republican" Slab who ended up getting a spike through the face and the witness who changed his mind in the trial for the murder of Garda McCabe.

Bit of a pattern here Francie.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

But we do have "omerta" from SF the night McCartney was murdered by the IRA and now a member looking for permission to give evidence for a murder. Throw in the guy who testified against "Good Republican" Slab who ended up getting a spike through the face and the witness who changed his mind in the trial for the murder of Garda McCabe.

Bit of a pattern here Francie.

Firstly he didn't have evidence on the murder, his evidence related to hearing the defendant say he murdered Garda Donohue.

And you still haven't pointed out what SF did wrong here?

JohnnyFlash

Jesus, that hole is getting very deep.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Firstly he didn't have evidence on the murder, his evidence related to hearing the defendant say he murdered Garda Donohue.

And you still haven't pointed out what SF did wrong here?

Go back to my first post on this, i said they did nothing wrong in this case but that it highlighted a culture among SF that they protect their own and hence why the guy felt the need to get permission in case "Good Republicans" were involved.

Ash.J.Williams

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sinn-f%C3%A9in-witness-consulted-party-over-aaron-brady-case-before-speaking-to-garda%C3%AD-1.4332502

Very strange case here. A witness in a murder trial of a member of AGS refused to speak to police without first checking with the powers that be in Sinn Fein.

That's not normal behaviour for a political party. That's how criminal organisations like the Mafia operate.

Anyone else think this is disgraceful carry on?

It’s not really strange at all, you’re aware there’s a border there and people are still alive that were involved in paramilitary behaviour not too long ago? Luckily it’s dying out and will gone soon, but you’re essentially playing dumb in order to bash sinfein

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Go back to my first post on this, i said they did nothing wrong in this case but that it highlighted a culture among SF that they protect their own and hence why the guy felt the need to get permission in case "Good Republicans" were involved.

And a link to how you know the last bit?

I will remind you here that my theory is that many people do not trust the Gardai or PSNI and sometimes that will be individuals within the force known for bias and with agendas.

That is how it is and it is a fairly routine post conflict/war phenomime that takes time to disappear.
I also said if a DI came to Adams and asked for help and got it that that was a fairly seismic event and should be loudly applauded. You either want your political reps to build trust or you don't.

IAMAMORON

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And a link to how you know the last bit?

I will remind you here that my theory is that many people do not trust the Gardai or PSNI and sometimes that will be individuals within the force known for bias and with agendas.

That is how it is and it is a fairly routine post conflict/war phenomime that takes time to disappear.
I also said if a DI came to Adams and asked for help and got it that that was a fairly seismic event and should be loudly applauded. You either want your political reps to build trust or you don't.

Ceasefire is now 23 years old and the GFA signed in 1998. People have been in and out of prison for murder in the meantime?

This is an excuse for citizens not contacting the Gards or PSNI as a result of bearing witness to a crime?

Where actually are Sinn Féin on crime across the 32 counties at this point? What comes first, human rights or a united Ireland? Where are Sinn Féin on this one question?

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Ceasefire is now 23 years old and the GFA signed in 1998. People have been in and out of prison for murder in the meantime?

This is an excuse for citizens not contacting the Gards or PSNI as a result of bearing witness to a crime?

Where actually are Sinn Féin on crime across the 32 counties at this point? What comes first, human rights or a united Ireland? Where are Sinn Féin on this one question?

Well we know two reps did their duty and what the party said they would do in the matter of the Garda murder.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And a link to how you know the last bit?

I will remind you here that my theory is that many people do not trust the Gardai or PSNI and sometimes that will be individuals within the force known for bias and with agendas.

That is how it is and it is a fairly routine post conflict/war phenomime that takes time to disappear.
I also said if a DI came to Adams and asked for help and got it that that was a fairly seismic event and should be loudly applauded. You either want your political reps to build trust or you don't.

It's a theory based on past occurrences.

Also where are you getting the idea that the detective asked for help rather than the witness asking for permission from Adams?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

It's a theory based on past occurrences.

Also where are you getting the idea that the detective asked for help rather than the witness asking for permission from Adams?

SF said that was what happened today.

Nobody to my knowledge has contradicted it.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF said that was what happened today.

Nobody to my knowledge has contradicted it.

The retired senior detective told the Irish Independent: "He wasn't sure about making a statement at all. I talked him around that it was the right thing to do.

"He said he was a Sinn Féin member and that he had to get sanction," Mr Marry said.

The investigator made contact with Antóin Watters, who said that this would 'have to come from head office' according to Mr Marry.

He then contacted a Sinn Fein TD, who he did not name, and was told that the party "would do anything" to help the guards.

The TD informed Pat Marry that the witness "is one of us" and that they "got word to him to make a statement and cooperate".

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/witness-in-adrian-donohoe-murder-trial-consulted-with-former-sinn-fein-leader-gerry-adams-before-providing-information-to-gardai-39459065.html

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

The retired senior detective told the Irish Independent: "He wasn't sure about making a statement at all. I talked him around that it was the right thing to do.

"He said he was a Sinn Féin member and that he had to get sanction," Mr Marry said.

The investigator made contact with Antóin Watters, who said that this would 'have to come from head office' according to Mr Marry.

He then contacted a Sinn Fein TD, who he did not name, and was told that the party "would do anything" to help the guards.

The TD informed Pat Marry that the witness "is one of us" and that they "got word to him to make a statement and cooperate".

Which confirms what SF said, the TD was obviously Adams.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF said that was what happened today.

Nobody to my knowledge has contradicted it.

Not only did the witness think he needed permission so did the other guy.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Not only did the witness think he needed permission so did the other guy.

The other guy's sanction was obviously not enough for the member to talk.
Now was a sanction neccessary or was the member deluded?

The other guy immediately, without seeking sanction informed the Gardai...see where this is going?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which confirms what SF said, the TD was obviously Adams.

The detective didn't ask for help from Gerry. The witness and the councillor went to head office for permission and Gerry personally gave that permission.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

The detective didn't ask for help from Gerry. The witness and the councillor went to head office for permission and Gerry personally gave that permission.

Where are you getting that from?
If the TD was Adams, this tallies exactly with what SF said happened.

The investigator made contact with Antóin Watters, who said that this would 'have to come from head office' according to Mr Marry.

He then contacted a Sinn Fein TD, who he did not name, and was told that the party "would do anything" to help the guards

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The other guy's sanction was obviously not enough for the member to talk.
Now was a sanction neccessary or was the member deluded?

The other guy immediately, without seeking sanction informed the Gardai...see where this is going?

Problem is Francie we don't know what could of happened if Brady was better connected.

It's not that long since the SF omerta around the McCartney murder.