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Giving early notice on lease (obligations/costs)

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    #32
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »
    So an unsubstantiated threat.

    All hot air as usual here from a certain cohort.

    It's a real disservice to the sector that the most vocal are the ones with the least knowledge.

    Dear God...pay attention.

    Punitive damages = an award apart from actual damages suffered. RTB cannot award apart from illegal evictions.

    Actual damages = monetary loss from breach of legislation or lease.

    There is an obligation to mitigate your losses throughout the courts system.

    Reletting costs are actual losses suffered by the LL.

    Empty unit costs are also losses. But LL must mitigate loss....

    Btw, you know a little, but not enough to be acting like an a**


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    #33
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »
    So an unsubstantiated threat.

    All hot air as usual here from a certain cohort.

    It's a real disservice to the sector that the most vocal are the ones with the least knowledge.

    If you have an issue with a post- refute it factually without attacking other posters. Casting aspersions concerning other posters is not acceptable behaviour if you wish to continue using this forum. This is a one and only warning.


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    #34
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    A landlord will be awarded if a tenant ups and leaves a fixed term tenancy. They may get awarded one month to three months rent depending on the steps taken to mitigate the loss. They will be awarded for any damages and it's a very detailed process if you cared to read how the panel calculate this.

    No where in all my years has a landlord been awarded for reletting costs.

    It's a given a landlord may be awarded for lost rent but a landlord always has to re-rent the property and they are not awarded for this.


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    #35
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    If a tenant is unable to remain in their tenancy for the duration of their tenancy agreement, they should firstly speak with their landlord and explain the situation and see if an amicable resolution can be found. If a resolution cannot be found and the tenant leaves early, a landlord must also aim to mitigate their losses and find a replacement for the tenant to ensure that they face as few costs as possible.

    If a replacement cannot be found, there could be bigger losses facing the tenant to cover what was due to the landlord for the time remaining within the tenancy agreement.


    https://www.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Comms%20and%20Research/FAQs_on_Emergency_Legislation_Final.pdf


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    #36
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »
    If a tenant is unable to remain in their tenancy for the duration of their tenancy agreement, they should firstly speak with their landlord and explain the situation and see if an amicable resolution can be found. If a resolution cannot be found and the tenant leaves early, a landlord must also aim to mitigate their losses and find a replacement for the tenant to ensure that they face as few costs as possible.

    If a replacement cannot be found, there could be bigger losses facing the tenant to cover what was due to the landlord for the time remaining within the tenancy agreement.


    https://www.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Comms%20and%20Research/FAQs_on_Emergency_Legislation_Final.pdf

    None of what you have posted deals with letting fees being excluded from damages, the duty to mitigate or the examination of costs by the RTB is not disputed so why are you posting this?

    And you are now quoting the RTB's published material, the same source you argued was not valid earlier. If you cannot specifically find something relating to letting fees, that is the point where you should stop....


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    #37
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    davindub wrote: »
    None of what you have posted deals with letting fees being excluded from damages, the duty to mitigate or the examination of costs by the RTB is not disputed so why are you posting this?

    And you are now quoting the RTB's published material, the same source you argued was not valid earlier. If you cannot specifically find something relating to letting fees, that is the point where you should stop....

    Apologies you were using the summaries from the RTB earlier so I thought this would be easier for you to comprehend as you don't seem to want to read the Acts.


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    #38
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    Financial loss to a landlord as defined in the act is a loss of rent or a loss as a result of damage. There is no other loss. You have failed to provide an example in the legislation of how loss would permit so called 're-letting' fees.

    Further, the landlord is advised to mitigate against further loss in the case of a tenant ending a fixed term tenancy prematurely therefore a landlord has to advertise the property as soon as it is evident the tenant has left because he will only be awarded damages for loss for a period. He will not be awarded for leaving a property vacant till the end of the fixed term tenancy.

    I have provided two examples of determinations in cases of breaches of fixed term tenancy and if you cared to read them you would see that any award was calculated for actual damage to property and loss of rent for a period of time not for the remainder of the fixed term tenancy.


    (b) in the case of a failure that does result in financial loss or damage to the landlord or his or her property—

    (i) to pay adequate compensation to the landlord (or, if the failure consists of the non-payment of rent, pay the arrears of rent) or repair the damage fully, and

    (ii) unless the failure is not of a continuing nature, to desist from the conduct that constitutes the failure or comply with the obligation concerned, as the case may be.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print.html

    Damage and loss is directly associated with rent, rent arrears and damage to property. It is not associated with the costs of being a landlord or their obligations. As you will see from determinations you will not be awarded for a damaged rug when the rug is ruled as being old.


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    #39
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »
    Apologies you were using the summaries from the RTB earlier so I thought this would be easier for you to comprehend as you don't seem to want to read the Acts.

    I did not use any RTB reference, I pointed you to the term in the legislation which references damages for breach of contract.

    I will be blunt, you posted a lot of "hot air" here and now you resort to interpreting the legislation yourself. Anyway, I'll leave you in your ignorance of anything useful relating to the matter.


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    #40
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Habata wrote: »
    Ok thanks. Landlord isn't making any moves towards renting it to someone else, and is insisting that I'm liable for next month, and have to forfeit the deposit.

    Perhaps I should try and assign the tenancy

    I have a friend who wanted to get out of a fixed term lease so emailed the agent to tell them and open the dialogue at how best to facilitate this. The agent refused to engage with any break of the lease so my friend asked to assign. The agent reiterated that the lease could not be broken so my friend said he was leaving on the last day before the next month's rent was due and told the agent the deposit could be kept in lieu of notice and that vacant possession would be provided on X date. The agent had no choice but to meet my friend, do an inspection and take the keys back.

    Moral of the story, circumstances change and what's strictly legal isn't always the most pragmatic approach, particularly in an RTB context where tenants are favoured and a tenant acts reasonably.


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    #41
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    davindub wrote: »
    I did not use any RTB reference, I pointed you to the term in the legislation which references damages for breach of contract.

    I will be blunt, you posted a lot of "hot air" here and now you resort to interpreting the legislation yourself. Anyway, I'll leave you in your ignorance of anything useful relating to the matter.

    You made a post S57M without comment.

    I broke it down for you, with real life experiences and legislation, you resorted to personal attacks and now are storming out.


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    #42
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    OP - why are you breaking the lease?


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    #43
    Habata
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Habata


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    I have a friend who wanted to get out of a fixed term lease so emailed the agent to tell them and open the dialogue at how best to facilitate this. The agent refused to engage with any break of the lease so my friend asked to assign. The agent reiterated that the lease could not be broken so my friend said he was leaving on the last day before the next month's rent was due and told the agent the deposit could be kept in lieu of notice and that vacant possession would be provided on X date. The agent had no choice but to meet my friend, do an inspection and take the keys back.

    Moral of the story, circumstances change and what's strictly legal isn't always the most pragmatic approach, particularly in an RTB context where tenants are favoured and a tenant acts reasonably.

    I've a friend that lost their job and needs to offer 84 days notice in their rental. And they're considering leaving and forfeiting the deposit. How likely is it that they would be pursued for the remainder?


    JustAThought wrote: »
    OP - why are you breaking the lease?

    Can't afford it after a change in work.


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    #44
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Habata wrote: »
    I've a friend that lost their job and needs to offer 84 days notice in their rental. And they're considering leaving and forfeiting the deposit. How likely is it that they would be pursued for the remainder?

    Its extremely rare that a landlord would pursue a tenant in this manner (unless there were other reasons to do so- such as abnormal damage to the unit for example). I'd be exceptionally surprised if anything came from it.


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    #45
    tuisginideach
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭tuisginideach


    Habata wrote: »
    I've a friend that lost their job and needs to offer 84 days notice in their rental. And they're considering leaving and forfeiting the deposit. How likely is it that they would be pursued for the remainder?
    .

    Hope they have the decency to tell their landlord the situation and not just walk out....


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    #46
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Habata wrote: »
    Ok thanks. Landlord isn't making any moves towards renting it to someone else, and is insisting that I'm liable for next month, and have to forfeit the deposit.

    Perhaps I should try and assign the tenancy

    OP, you should definitely try to assign the tenancy, the LL either agrees (but runs the risk of you getting a less than desirable replacement tenant) and you continue looking for someone or he doesn't agree and you're free to leave with notice


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