Lions Tour

markest

TomsOnTheRoof wrote:

Funnily enough, even before yesterday's game I would have said that Keenan would have had the best shout out of that group, possibly after Ryan. Keenan has been superb this season and I'd have him second only to Hogg at 15 in Britain or Ireland. Probable Irish tourists for me would be:

1. Rala

Downlinz

AdamD wrote: »

This is exactly why I thought players would pull out. Lockdown has been a pain the arse, people have been restricted from seeing their familes, some of these players have spent months in bubbles etc. Now their countries are opening up, they'll get a chance to see their families etc. but instead they'll get sent off in another lengthy bubble to a country under stricter restrictions.

Doesn't sound great so the money must be good.

It doesn't sound too appealing at all and I'd imagine the players are going to be very restricted in what they can do once they're in South Africa in terms of travel, visiting attractions etc. Not to mention the expected quarantine once they return home.

Though apparently 50 or so players have been sent a letter to indicate an expression of interest so it'll be more a case of bankers not being selected in the initial announcement and everyone wondering why rather than players being selected and refusing.

Cookiemunster

Squad to be announced starting at 12:28 on Thursday.

https://twitter.com/lionsofficial/status/1389474877233668096

The Parish King

Some of the UK media outlets seem to have some information on the 50 odd players that have been put on standby duty for the Lions.

It’s widely known that Ben Youngs has asked not to be included in this list, but it also appears that Marcus Smith, Danny Care, Sam Simmonds and Ben Spencer have all made the longlist.

I’d be quite surprised if any of those four travelled, although I could see the logic in bringing Care due to the lack of a experienced options at 9 bar Murray.

From an Irish perspective I think the best chance of a bolter is probably Ronan Kelleher, although if Sam Simmonds is on the longlist I wouldn’t be shocked if Conan is in the conversation as well after his performances against Exeter and England, and to a lesser extent La Rochelle.

TRC10

It would be pretty wild if Marcus Smith got selected.

Squidgy Black

TRC10 wrote: »

It would be pretty wild if Marcus Smith got selected.

Has had a pretty outstanding season for Quins this year in fairness.

The scrumhalf rumours are mad, the English media are reporting that Care is almost definitely travelling and that Spencer is a strong contender, and the Welsh are reporting that Williams and Hardy are both in the running and likely to travel alongside Davies

sydthebeat

I wouldnt at all be surprised if Sam Simmonds travels

sprucemoose

The Parish King wrote: »

It’s widely known that Ben Youngs has asked not to be included in this list, but it also appears that Marcus Smith, Danny Care, Sam Simmonds and Ben Spencer have all made the longlist.

other than simmonds, that has to be a joke. im a big fan of care but hes not at lions standard anymore, i know he's playing fantastic stuff for quins but for all the flack the pro14 gets the premiership isnt that amazing either when it comes down to it

awec

sprucemoose wrote: »

other than simmonds, that has to be a joke. im a big fan of care but hes not at lions standard anymore, i know he's playing fantastic stuff for quins but for all the flack the pro14 gets the premiership isnt that amazing either when it comes down to it

What is Lions standard?

Not many options at 9 as the best 9 in the NH by a mile is ineligible. Conor Murray will be lucky to get picked as well.

Buer

awec wrote: »

What is Lions standard?

Not many options at 9 as the best 9 in the NH by a mile is ineligible. Conor Murray will be lucky to get picked as well.

Murray will go. There's nobody else really there with experience now that Youngs has withdrawn. But if it was being picked purely on form right now, he'd struggle to be in the top 4 options.

sprucemoose

awec wrote: »

What is Lions standard?

Not many options at 9 as the best 9 in the NH by a mile is ineligible. Conor Murray will be lucky to get picked as well.

murray will go imo since hes been on 2 previous tours and is getting back to some bit of form. agreed not a lot of choice apart from him especially since youngs has ruled himself out, but care hasnt been involved with england for a while now and spencer is occasionally in their squads. smith shows bits and pieces in fairness but was pretty poor against munster so id be shocked if he were involved

TRC10

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Has had a pretty outstanding season for Quins this year in fairness.

The scrumhalf rumours are mad, the English media are reporting that Care is almost definitely travelling and that Spencer is a strong contender, and the Welsh are reporting that Williams and Hardy are both in the running and likely to travel alongside Davies

Oh I know, I'm not knocking Marcus Smith, he's unreal.

It would just be pretty mad if a 22 year old uncapped 10 got picked. But I'd love to see him get picked.

THFC198

Ellis Genge told BBC Radio today that he’s not on the long list being considered, interesting because I would’ve thought it was a straight shootout between himself and Healy for that 3rd LH spot considering Sutherlands injury.

AbusesToilets

THFC198 wrote: »

Ellis Genge told BBC Radio today that he’s not on the long list being considered, interesting because I would’ve thought it was a straight shootout between himself and Healy for that 3rd LH spot considering Sutherlands injury.

No great loss

awec

awec wrote: »

What is Lions standard?

You have to be at least 5ft tall

https://i.redd.it/tibn7bwwf7r61.jpg

THFC198

AbusesToilets wrote: »

No great loss

I like him, brings such a huge impact when he plays, although has been exposed at times in the scrum and can be ill disciplined

sprucemoose

THFC198 wrote: »

Ellis Genge told BBC Radio today that he’s not on the long list being considered, interesting because I would’ve thought it was a straight shootout between himself and Healy for that 3rd LH spot considering Sutherlands injury.

hes realistically 3rd choice for england atm so its probably correct that hes not being considered. side note, dont think he comes across well on the good etc, podcast at all

Buer

THFC198 wrote: »

Ellis Genge told BBC Radio today that he’s not on the long list being considered, interesting because I would’ve thought it was a straight shootout between himself and Healy for that 3rd LH spot considering Sutherlands injury.

Firstly, I genuinely wouldn't believe a word from his mouth. He's a prankster, to put a polite spin on it.

But as a player, he's excellent. I'd be surprised if he wasn't on that long list. He's exactly the type of guy who would go there and not bat an eyelid at the reputation of the opposition. He'd happily take the fight to them and, whilst his discipline is something of a concern, it's what gives him a mean edge on the field which is going to be needed.

Marler is probably a strong contender who is barely mentioned. He's fit and playing well. He wasn't in the 6N at his own request. With Vunipola playing like a drain and Sutherland touch and go due to his fitness, Wyn Jones is the only loose head who is definitely travelling right now.

THFC198

I think Marler would be a great tourist and beat Healy to the spot in 2017, but I’m just wary of bringing someone in who isn’t playing international/high end European rugby plus the fact that McBryde is coach could help Healy

AbusesToilets

THFC198 wrote: »

I think Marler would be a great tourist and beat Healy to the spot in 2017, but I’m just wary of bringing someone in who isn’t playing international/high end European rugby plus the fact that McBryde is coach could help Healy

Healy had a very good game at the weekend imo. Solid in the scrum and one of his best showings carrying in awhile.

Cookiemunster

THFC198 wrote: »

I think Marler would be a great tourist and beat Healy to the spot in 2017, but I’m just wary of bringing someone in who isn’t playing international/high end European rugby plus the fact that McBryde is coach could help Healy

Marler removed himself from the England 6N squad because the bubble required would take him away from his family for too long. No way is he touring with the Lions with the even longer stricter bubble that entails.

TRC10

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Healy had a very good game at the weekend imo. Solid in the scrum and one of his best showings carrying in awhile.

I'd be very surprised if Healy is picked. He is years past his best and has offered very little outside the scrum for a while. And Leinster's scrum got demolished v LAR. It will be Wyn Jones and 2 of Mako.V, Sutherland and Marler.

awec

Buer wrote: »

Murray will go. There's nobody else really there with experience now that Youngs has withdrawn. But if it was being picked purely on form right now, he'd struggle to be in the top 4 options.

I didn't mean he wouldn't get picked.

I meant that despite a few years of fairly mediocre performances Murray will be a Lion this year due to a lack of alternatives.

AbusesToilets

TRC10 wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if Healy is picked. He is years past his best and has offered very little outside the scrum for a while. And Leinster's scrum got demolished v LAR. It will be Wyn Jones and 2 of Mako.V, Sutherland and Marler.

Leinsters scrum was not demolished by Lar, they lost 1 penalty for a slip iirc. Healy had their TH under pressure the whole game.

blackwhite

Louis Friend wrote: »

The money’s not that good TBH.

They get around £70k plus bonuses if they win Test matches.

It's worth considerably more to them for endorsements etc.

Cosmo Kramer

I think the English rugby media are going to be disappointed with the outcome here, with the possible exception of Simmonds I can't see any of those bolters going. Because they had such a poor six nations they have taken to batting for players from outside the England camp based on Premiership form. I'd question how many of those players are genuinely on the radar though. I'd say that long list was nearer to 60 than 50 and the squad won't include many or maybe any of those unlikely names come Thursday.

Mind you, our own media are in for disappointment as well given some of the squad predictions I've seen from Irish journos in the last few days - 12, 13 Irish players included in some of them. It's just not realistic, there will be 8 to 10 Irish players named I reckon.

Assuming they stick to 36 it will be 12 Welsh, 9 Irish, 9 English and 6 Scots or thereabouts. Still wouldn't be surprised if they upped the numbers late in the day though.

Louis Friend

blackwhite wrote: »

It's worth considerably more to them for endorsements etc.

Nah, it isn’t really. Only the Tier 1 lads make real money from up, e.g. the likes of Itoje and Johnny.

Buer

Whatever about endorsements, it would be worth a significant uplift to any player sitting down to negotiate a contract in the following year.

In fact, I'd say that it would be reflected in their salary across the majority of the remainder of their career. Any player will know his profile and marketing value is forever increased if he gets on a Lions tour and goes well.

roverjoyce

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

I think the English rugby media are going to be disappointed with the outcome here, with the possible exception of Simmonds I can't see any of those bolters going. Because they had such a poor six nations they have taken to batting for players from outside the England camp based on Premiership form. I'd question how many of those players are genuinely on the radar though. I'd say that long list was nearer to 60 than 50 and the squad won't include many or maybe any of those unlikely names come Thursday.

Mind you, our own media are in for disappointment as well given some of the squad predictions I've seen from Irish journos in the last few days - 12, 13 Irish players included in some of them. It's just not realistic, there will be 8 to 10 Irish players named I reckon.

Assuming they stick to 36 it will be 12 Welsh, 9 Irish, 9 English and 6 Scots or thereabouts. Still wouldn't be surprised if they upped the numbers late in the day though.

I think it will be 12 Welsh & English with 7 Irish & 5 Scottish

Gatland will be loyal to the 2017 Lions so George, Lawes, Daly & Nowell who where in the final test squad has a great chance of being picked

Juventu4

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

My interest this year, as someone who usually really enjoys it, is at rock bottom too.

Same as considering Ireland had an average Six Nations, Ulster and Leinster both getting beaten in the second half in their respective semi finals but I reckon once the Squad jets out to South Africa and we get nearer the Test matches I think hype will build for it. It will be July so hopefully pubs open with good weather and kick off time at 7pm.

Losty Dublin

penybont exile wrote: »

The 1971 Lions captain John Dawes passed away earlier today.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/apr/16/john-dawes-wales-and-british-irish-lions-legend-dies-aged-80

A fine player, coach & ambassador for rugby.
.

His funeral is streaming tomorrow from 11:20AM in Llandaff Cathedral.

partyguinness

A little suprised to see that CJ Stander is not being mentioned among the pundits as a certainty for the squad or is he no longer available?

OneLungDavy

partyguinness wrote: »

A little suprised to see that CJ Stander is not being mentioned among the pundits as a certainty for the squad or is he no longer available?

He's still available but he's not a certainty. 6/8 is a competitive position.

partyguinness

OneLungDavy wrote: »

He's still available but he's not a certainty. 6/8 is a competitive position.

TBH there will be injuries so even if he does not make the first squad he will probably end up in the squad at some stage before the end.

Cosmo Kramer

There tends to be a tendency in the UK media to underestimate the Irish options in these circumstances which contributes to the likes of Stander and Henderson being left out of a lot of squad predictions - that said he's not a guaranteed tourist but I expect he'll probably just about make the cut. It is a very competitive area of the squad.

This effort from the ever impartial BBC is a good example of the kind of thing that gets posted on squad selection week - both pundits pick 13 Englishmen and many of their disagreements are between which English players should be selected.

Given that there's nobody really in the room making the case for these English players when the squad is/was picked, it's unlikely anywhere near as many as that will be selected.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56983845

partyguinness

I have to admit I am not buying into all the love for Hamish Watson.

sydthebeat

partyguinness wrote: »

I have to admit I am not buying into all the love for Hamish Watson.

https://contenthubble.com/playground/lions-selection/

The stats would explain the love for him

partyguinness

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://contenthubble.com/playground/lions-selection/

The stats would explain the love for him

Cheers...do you know what I am thinking...Tom Curry does not look so hot but yet he is a nailed down certinty for the BBC.

sprucemoose

partyguinness wrote: »

I have to admit I am not buying into all the love for Hamish Watson.

have to say i agree, seems hes this season's token performing scottish player, been lots of them in the past and only hogg really has consistently performed (and hes relatively inconsistent at that)

AudreyHepburn

Some very interesting decisions ahead - Garland is spoiled for choice in some areas but will have the bare minimum to pick from in others.

One thing I do hope he gets right is the captaincy. For my money Alun Wyn Jones is a shoe in for it but I’ve also heard Owen Farrell and Maro Itoje thrown in as options and to be honest for me neither one should even be a consideration.

Itoje is a penalty liability and Farrell doesn’t have the right temperament for it IMO. I really don’t like how he interacts with the referee and I’m not sure he has the experience and leadership gravitas needed either.

hahashake

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://contenthubble.com/playground/lions-selection/

The stats would explain the love for him

Strange this isn't weighted to minutes played, for a second I though VDF had shocking stats.

partyguinness

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Some very interesting decisions ahead - Garland is spoiled for choice in some areas but will have the bare minimum to pick from in others.

One thing I do hope he gets right is the captaincy. For my money Alun Wyn Jones is a shoe in for it but I’ve also heard Owen Farrell and Maro Itoje thrown in as options and to be honest for me neither one should even be a consideration.

Itoje is a penalty liability and Farrell doesn’t have the right temperament for it IMO. I really don’t like how he interacts with the referee and I’m not sure he has the experience and leadership gravitas needed either.

I think it has to be Jones on many levels and on that basis he is a starter where does that leave Ryan/Itoje? Having said that I would not be surprised if it went elsewhere.

Reminds me of 2013, I felt O'Connell or O'Driscoll were the stand out choices on paper but you felt they were never going to get it.

TomsOnTheRoof

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://contenthubble.com/playground/lions-selection/

The stats would explain the love for him

Jesus, Stander most definitely should be a cert going by that.

AudreyHepburn

partyguinness wrote: »

I think it has to be Jones on many levels and on that basis he is a starter where does that leave Ryan/Itoje? Having said that I would not be surprised if it went elsewhere.

Reminds me of 2013, I felt O'Connell or O'Driscoll were the stand out choices on paper but you felt they were never going to get it.

I’m not actually convinced Itoje should be on the plane at all. He’s a brilliant lock no question but he gives away penalties like it’s going out of fashion and that would be absolutely lethal against the Boks.

The Inbetween is mine

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’m not actually convinced Itoje should be on the plane at all. He’s a brilliant lock no question but he gives away penalties like it’s going out of fashion and that would be absolutely lethal against the Boks.

Itoje probably in the first 3 on the plane

AudreyHepburn

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Itoje probably in the first 3 on the plane

I agree Gats will probably bring him but I’m not convinced he should. Again not disputing his talent, just his discipline.

partyguinness

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I agree Gats will probably bring him but I’m not convinced he should. Again not disputing his talent, just his discipline.

TBH there is no probably about it...:pac:


Plane, starter and a likely captain. Yes his discipline has been an issue but let's put that down to being undercooked in this years 6N.

AudreyHepburn

partyguinness wrote: »

TBH there is no probably about it...:pac:


Plane, starter and a likely captain. Yes his discipline has been an issue but let's put that down to being undercooked in this years 6N.

My guess would Alun Wyn as captain with Itoje and/or Farrell as vice. We know Gatland likes to stick with what he knows.

Former Former Former

There should no debate about captain IMO, AWJ is head and shoulders above all other candidates.

partyguinness

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

My guess would Alun Wyn as captain with Itoje and/or Farrell as vice. We know Gatland likes to stick with what he knows.

Yes. I would pluck for Itoje as VC with both starting.