Lions Tour

Burkie1203

partyguinness wrote: »

Going back to the captaincy question I don't even think it's a question of why AWJ should get it but rather give a good reason why it should be taken off him.

But it just dawned me, I could see AWJ actually asking not to have it and taking a step back as VC.

Have they not changed it to a tour captain with a test captain to be picked the week of the first test?

Louis Friend

There are really only three main contenders, aren’t there?

AWJ, Itoje, and Farrell. I wouldn’t include Sexton in the discussion as some have.

I think there’s merit in sticking with history and having a forward as captain in South Africa.

There would also be some obvious historic significance in having a black guy lead the side.

Either AWJ or Itoje for me, with AWJ probably getting the nod for me.

partyguinness

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Have they not changed it to a tour captain with a test captain to be picked the week of the first test?

Yeah that's probably correct. Sure we had POM captaining the first test last time.

Burkie1203

Twitter rumours

Jac Morgan and Zebo selected. Priestland too

Maybe someone has had too many cola bottles

Buer

English media reporting Simmonds and Daly both in. Tuilagi was the toss of a coin in the final discussions. Only Saracens contender to be left out is Billy V.

20/16 split which means versatility is going to be key in the backs which will count against the likes of Ringrose.

TomsOnTheRoof

Rumoured squad

theVersatile

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Rumoured squad

Vunipola in brackets?

Some conflict with English media, who reported Elliot Daly as an inclusion.

Squidgy Black

theVersatile wrote: »

Vunipola in brackets?

Some conflict with English media, who reported Elliot Daly as an inclusion.

Sutherland has a shoulder injury and it's reported he'll be racing to get fit for the tour so would make sense that vunipola is named as contingency. I think they've done similar before

taffey

Sutherland injured,,Vunipola to step in if so

ClanofLams

Maybe a lack of options but Ringrose be very fortunate to make it based on Ireland & Leinster form over last twelve months.

theVersatile

I'd be fairly peeved if I were CJ, and Simmonds was selected ahead of me.

Squidgy Black

ClanofLams wrote: »

Maybe a lack of options but Ringrose be very fortunate to make it based on Ireland & Leinster form over last twelve months.

Was one of our best players last season until his jaw injury in October and had to have two surgeries on it, he's had minimal game time in fairness since

ronanc1000

Who's aboard the Keith Earls train? Praying he gets the call. Had an brilliant 6N this year. Deserves it. Better option than VDM and Adams imo. I'd have him with May, Watson, LRZ, Williams and Hogg.

TomsOnTheRoof

theVersatile wrote: »

Vunipola in brackets?

Some conflict with English media, who reported Elliot Daly as an inclusion.

Yeah I just saw it there about 20 minutes ago. Maybe there are questions surrounding Sutherland's fitness. So many bits and pieces floating about so hard to know who said Daly was in.

TomsOnTheRoof

theVersatile wrote: »

I'd be fairly peeved if I were CJ, and Simmonds was selected ahead of me.

I think he could feel very hard done by. Going by the stats that were linked earlier he was the best eight in the 6 Nations. He also covers blindside.

RugbyLover123

Gatland must want to pull a fast one on Jones by picking Simmonds. Don’t see how he doesn’t get shut down vs the Boks just like he did in 2018 vs Ireland and vs Leinster a few weeks ago. Worry about ball carrying options with the supposed back row.

TRC10

Louis Friend wrote: »

I’d look at the Irish runners and riders as follows:

Definites:

Henshaw
Murray
Sexton
Ryan
Furlong

Probables:

Ringrose
Stander
Beirne
Henderson

Possibles:

Keenan
Aki
Porter
Kelleher
Earls

I can’t believe that there are people questioning whether Itoje will be selected.

I'd say Beirne is more of a definite than Sexton.

Also I'd say Porter is definitely a probable, if not a definite.

Henderson is more of a definite than Ryan I'd say.

thomond2006

I hate that there's leaks. The previous announcements IIRC were spoiler-free (captain aside) and were great as a result.

unplayable

Very interested in peoples opinions on this. Obviously we are all talking about who makes the squad for now. The rumoured squad to me look poor in comparison to previous squads.

I would make South Africa big favs to win the series. The lions are odds on!!! I cannot believe this. It will be the toughest tour ever for the players. This could easily be a 3-0 South Africa.

TRC10

thomond2006 wrote: »

I hate that there's leaks. The previous announcements IIRC were spoiler-free (captain aside) and were great as a result.

The leaks are usually bull****. Wouldn't pay much attention.

Squidgy Black

thomond2006 wrote: »

I hate that there's leaks. The previous announcements IIRC were spoiler-free (captain aside) and were great as a result.

Even stranger that players like Genge and Marler have said that they weren't on the shortlist at all before the announcement.

Usually players are completely stum on that sort of thing. But it sort of sums up this lions tour as a whole

bilston

Urrgghhh...thats worse than a spoiler for a good TV show. Hopefully its just made up.

TRC10

bilston wrote: »

Urrgghhh...thats worse than a spoiler for a good TV show. Hopefully its just made up.

It's made up.

4 years ago, everyone was reporting that Jamie Roberts was in and Joseph was out. They were all wrong.

bilston

TRC10 wrote: »

It's made up.

4 years ago, everyone was reporting that Jamie Roberts was in and Joseph was out. They were all wrong.

Am I right in thinking the players don't even know? They find out when we do?

Be pretty bad form if it was leaked, and it could only come from the management.

So yeah you're probably right.

TRC10

bilston wrote: »

Am I right in thinking the players don't even know? They find out when we do?

Be pretty bad form if it was leaked, and it could only come from the management.

So yeah you're probably right.

Yeah they don't know, they watch the announcement like us.

There are probably 6 people on earth who know the squad right now.

leakyboots

Would be very surprised if CJ doesn't travel

aloooof

leakyboots wrote: »

Would be very surprised if CJ doesn't travel

It’d be a fitting way for CJ to bow out, would love to see him get the nod.

Louis Friend

It’d save the Lions money too…CJ’s not coming back so just a one-way flight

TRC10

aloooof wrote: »

It’d be a fitting way for CJ to bow out, would love to see him get the nod.

100%

It would be a great "f*ck you" to South Africa playing backrow against them for the Lions when they told him he was too small to play there

The Inbetween is mine

I'd be surprised if Navidi goes ... personally think he's a shadow of the player from 2 or 3 years ago

TRC10

Having thought about it, I think theres a chance Elliot Daly gets in at that 4th winger slot. Purely because versatility will be so important if theres only 16 backs and he can play full back, wing or centre.

Larbre34

Taking all things into account, particularly Gatland himself, I would only actually put a single Irish player down as a definite and thats Furlong.

Both Beirne and Henshaw certainly should go, but that depends on combinations and strategy.

Neither Sexton nor Murray are better than 50/50 for me and I actually feel Sexton will miss out altogether in favour of more versatile players and players in better form, not to mention fit.

I don't think Earls offers more than his rivals for a spot, so won't go. Likewise Herring and Kelleher. A year ago you'd say James Ryan was nailed on, but he's out of sorts.

Will any Irish backrow eclipse an English or Welsh player in Gatland's eyes? Our very best ones aren't fit and available.

McBryde will fight for Leinstermen and that could advantage Ringrose, but frankly Keenan deserves the pick more.

The last one with a chance is Henderson, but I don't think it'll be him AND Beirne in any event.

So, I'm saying 4 Irish to travel in the first squad. Perhaps one or two to be brought out in the event of injuries.

By this time tomorrow I think there will be much introspection taking place in Irish rugby.

mystic86

What time is the announcement tomorrow?

TRC10

mystic86 wrote: »

What time is the announcement tomorrow?

12 Noon.

Streamed on the Lions website

UAEguy2020

Picking Care and Simmonds would be a big part in why I find it difficult to route for the Lions year on year, forget Ali Price and the likes of Stander who had excellent six nations but instead pick two players not considered good enough for their country just because they impress against the likes of Worcester and Newcastle...It makes a mockery of the whole thing and I honestly will lose a lot of respect for Gatland if he sells out to the media and picks these two.

UAEguy2020

Larbre34 wrote: »

Taking all things into account, particularly Gatland himself, I would only actually put a single Irish player down as a definite and thats Furlong.

Both Beirne and Henshaw certainly should go, but that depends on combinations and strategy.

Neither Sexton nor Murray are better than 50/50 for me and I actually feel Sexton will miss out altogether in favour of more versatile players and players in better form, not to mention fit.

I don't think Earls offers more than his rivals for a spot, so won't go. Likewise Herring and Kelleher. A year ago you'd say James Ryan was nailed on, but he's out of sorts.

Will any Irish backrow eclipse an English or Welsh player in Gatland's eyes? Our very best ones aren't fit and available.

McBryde will fight for Leinstermen and that could advantage Ringrose, but frankly Keenan deserves the pick more.

The last one with a chance is Henderson, but I don't think it'll be him AND Beirne in any event.

So, I'm saying 4 Irish to travel in the first squad. Perhaps one or two to be brought out in the event of injuries.

By this time tomorrow I think there will be much introspection taking place in Irish rugby.

Henshaw is a definite starter, if he was Welsh or English we’d say the same because of him being Irish we try to overthink a way to not pick him in an attempt to be impartial.

Murray will definitely travel, it’s just a question of weather he starts or not but he and Williams are certainties to travel.

With McBryde involved it wouldn’t surprise me if someone left field like even Kelleher travels, he’s as good as any of the hookers favored but may miss out due to lack of experience.

UAEguy2020

unplayable wrote: »

Very interested in peoples opinions on this. Obviously we are all talking about who makes the squad for now. The rumoured squad to me look poor in comparison to previous squads.

I would make South Africa big favs to win the series. The lions are odds on!!! I cannot believe this. It will be the toughest tour ever for the players. This could easily be a 3-0 South Africa.

Well SA haven’t played a test in almost 2 years come the test series.

Louis Friend

Larbre34 wrote: »

Taking all things into account, particularly Gatland himself, I would only actually put a single Irish player down as a definite and thats Furlong.

Both Beirne and Henshaw certainly should go, but that depends on combinations and strategy.

Neither Sexton nor Murray are better than 50/50 for me and I actually feel Sexton will miss out altogether in favour of more versatile players and players in better form, not to mention fit.

I don't think Earls offers more than his rivals for a spot, so won't go. Likewise Herring and Kelleher. A year ago you'd say James Ryan was nailed on, but he's out of sorts.

Will any Irish backrow eclipse an English or Welsh player in Gatland's eyes? Our very best ones aren't fit and available.

McBryde will fight for Leinstermen and that could advantage Ringrose, but frankly Keenan deserves the pick more.

The last one with a chance is Henderson, but I don't think it'll be him AND Beirne in any event.

So, I'm saying 4 Irish to travel in the first squad. Perhaps one or two to be brought out in the event of injuries.

By this time tomorrow I think there will be much introspection taking place in Irish rugby.

That far too conservative.

Murray is absolutely nailed-on, so to claim he’s 50/50 kind of blows a hole in your argument.

Robbie Henshaw is almost a dead cert.

We’ll have a decent contingent of at least 8 I would estimate, probably more.

Cosmo Kramer

Will be interesting to see how accurate the leaks and reports are. If true, then it would seem that Gatland has been heavily influenced by the English media and has weighted the English Premiership above the Champions Cup and in some cases the 6 Nations.

The situation with the Scots was to be expected. In a 36 man squad (if it is indeed 36) it looks like there will be a few token selections to appease Townsend, but given that these players have no realistic prospect of starting test matches, it only serves to weaken the depth of an already slimmed down squad even further.

AudreyHepburn

leakyboots wrote: »

Would be very surprised if CJ doesn't travel

It would be beyond ridiculous if he isn’t picked. He’s a great player and it’d be the perfect way for him to bow out.

AudreyHepburn

Louis Friend wrote: »

That far too conservative.

Murray is absolutely nailed-on, so to claim he’s 50/50 kind of blows a hole in your argument.

Robbie Henshaw is almost a dead cert.

We’ll have a decent contingent of at least 8 I would estimate, probably more.

I’d agree with this.

I don’t understand why people are so determined that more of our lads won’t go or don’t deserve to go.

As a team we haven’t been at our best it’s true but that doesn’t mean there haven’t been some incredible individual performances.

I would definitely tip Sexton, Murray, Henshaw, Furlong, Beirne, Henderson, Stander as definitely getting on the plane.

Burkie1203

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It would be beyond ridiculous if he isn’t picked. He’s a great player and it’d be the perfect way for him to bow out.

Gatland doesn't do sentiment.

Louis Friend

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’d agree with this.

I don’t understand why people are so determined that more of our lads won’t go or don’t deserve to go.

As a team we haven’t been at our best it’s true but that doesn’t mean there haven’t been some incredible individual performances.

I would definitely tip Sexton, Murray, Henshaw, Furlong, Beirne, Henderson, Stander as definitely getting on the plane.

36 players go, so 9 is “Level Par”, but then the Scots are crap, so an equal share is even more than 9.

South African pals of mine are convinced Aki will go, which would surprise me.

I think we’ll get 11…Henshaw, Ringrose, Earls, Murray, Sexton, Stander, Beirne, Ryan, Henderson, Furlong, and Porter

Louis Friend

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Gatland doesn't do sentiment.

Of course he does!

Do you not remember 2013 in Sydney when…

I’ll get my coat!

aloooof

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Gatland doesn't do sentiment.

He doesn't, but for me CJ deserves to be there on merit.

RugbyLover123

Gatland couldn’t care less if it would be a nice way for CJ to finish up. Personally I’d be more surprised if he was on the plane then not.

KBurke85

Louis Friend wrote: »

36 players go, so 9 is “Level Par”, but then the Scots are crap, so an equal share is even more than 9.

South African pals of mine are convinced Aki will go, which would surprise me.

I think we’ll get 11…Henshaw, Ringrose, Earls, Murray, Sexton, Stander, Beirne, Ryan, Henderson, Furlong, and Porter

If you think Ireland are gonna get 11 players picked this is going to be a very frustrating day for you I believe.

AudreyHepburn

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Gatland doesn't do sentiment.

It’s not just about sentiment though. CJ deserves to be there on performance and merit. Those Gatland does do.

sydthebeat

My squad

Hogg
DVDM
Watson
LRZ
L Williams
Daly
Ringrose
Henshaw
Foxy
Slade
Farrell
Sexton
Biggar
Murray
Davies
Price

Mako
Healy
W jones
LCD
owens
George
Porter
Furlong
Sinckler
Itoje
AWJ
Ryan
Gray
Beirne
Curry
Navidi
Tipuric
Watson
Faletau
Stander

phog

The Irish players that I see will travel are Furlong, Porter, Beirne, Ryan, outside chance of CJ being on the plane, Murray, Ringrose and Keenan as a bolter. I think Sexton being out with concussion related injuries might have him staying at home.

I'd love to see Earls get the nod but that's sentiment on my side.

Edit to add Henshaw