Lions Tour

TRC10

Buer wrote: »

I think blindside is a straight shoot out between Lawes and Beirne. Lawes is a real dark horse to be in the 6 jersey. Gatland is a fan and he was a test Lion in 2017. All of his recent caps for England have come at blindside and given his injury interrupted season, he's going to be fresh and raring to go when they touch down in SA.

With the options that the Lions have selected at 7 and 8, I can't see the Lions going with anything but a big unit at blindside against PSDT and co.

Yeah you may well be right there.

Although I wouldn't rule out Itoje starting at 6 either.

I personally think there's a lot to be said for having Henderson in the 2nd row as he's probably the most physical, abrasive lock we have. We know he can mix it up physically with the likes of Etzebeth, as we've seen on multiple occasions before. A pairing of Itoje and AWJ is a world class pairing but it lacks size, which Henderson would bring. That would of course leave Itoje to play 6.

4-Henderson
5-AWJ
6-Itoje
7-Curry
8-Faletau
Would be my pick

lawrencesummers

TRC10 wrote: »

Yeah you may well be right there.

Although I wouldn't rule out Itoje starting at 6 either.

I personally think there's a lot to be said for having Henderson in the 2nd row as he's probably the most physical, abrasive lock we have. We know he can mix it up physically with the likes of Etzebeth, as we've seen on multiple occasions before. A pairing of Itoje and AWJ is a world class pairing but it lacks size, which Henderson would bring. That would of course leave Itoje to play 6.

4-Henderson
5-AWJ
6-Itoje
7-Curry
8-Faletau
Would be my pick

Beirne would surely be ahead of hendo, he’s just as physical and far better at the breakdown.

pickarooney

Unless they brought Johnny Hill for his kicking he's the most physical lock in the bunch I reckon. Although giving away brainless penalties at altitude is asking for trouble.

Paul Smeenus

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Beirne would surely be ahead of hendo, he’s just as physical and far better at the breakdown.

I wouldn't put him as physical as Hendo at all, and Henderson is a much better, more experienced line-out caller. Surprisingly, AWJ doesn't call the lineout for Wales. Henderson also gives away far fewer penalties, with will be an issue at altitude where they can be pinged over from anywhere.

But I suspect It'll be AWJ and Itoje, with Beirne at six.

Red Silurian

For anybody interested ESPN+ are to cover the Lions tour in the USA and they offer a 7 day free trial so if anybody has a VPN or DNS service that can connect you might be in luck

AbusesToilets

Red Silurian wrote: »

For anybody interested ESPN+ are to cover the Lions tour in the USA and they offer a 7 day free trial so if anybody has a VPN or DNS service that can connect you might be in luck

Are they showing the games?

Sheep Shagger

Now TV are doing a months sky sports access for €15 (then €34.99 a month), offer ends 30/6.

Planning to sign up on the 30th and cancel straight away (service remains for the month you just paid for).

That will get all except the last 2 games, will worry about those later, who knows they might even do another deal in July.

lawrencesummers

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I wouldn't put him as physical as Hendo at all, and Henderson is a much better, more experienced line-out caller. Surprisingly, AWJ doesn't call the lineout for Wales. Henderson also gives away far fewer penalties, with will be an issue at altitude where they can be pinged over from anywhere.

But I suspect It'll be AWJ and Itoje, with Beirne at six.

There is no question that Awj and Itoje will start in the second row.

Bar injury that is.

It’s up to Beirne and Lawes to get the 6 jersey, with hendo or other on the bench.

That might not happen with injury, but I reckon it’s the plan at the moment

AbusesToilets

lawrencesummers wrote: »

There is no question that Awj and Itoje will start in the second row.

Bar injury that is.

It’s up to Beirne and Lawes to get the 6 jersey, with hendo or other on the bench.

That might not happen with injury, but I reckon it’s the plan at the moment

Not sure I would be so bullish on Itoje, he's hasn't had a great season or been in top form. I'd say hendo is in with a strong shout to start.

lawrencesummers

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Not sure I would be so bullish on Itoje, he's hasn't had a great season or been in top form. I'd say hendo is in with a strong shout to start.

Yea, that’s a fair point, he has effectively been in retirement since Sarries were relegated and didn’t exactly set the world on fire in the 6 nations.

We could well see a few Sarries players down the pecking order and some others finding form as the tour goes on.

One thing is for sure, the lions need the Sarries players in top form and the Sarries players need gametime to discover that form.

Captain_Crash

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Now TV are doing a months sky sports access for €15 (then €34.99 a month), offer ends 30/6.

Planning to sign up on the 30th and cancel straight away (service remains for the month you just paid for).

That will get all except the last 2 games, will worry about those later, who knows they might even do another deal in July.

Don’t cancel straight away, get the deal and set a reminder in your phone to cancel a couple of days before renewal. When you go to cancel they’ll offer you the same deal for another month.

sydthebeat

Kelleher staying on with the lions for another week.

irelandrover

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Not sure I would be so bullish on Itoje, he's hasn't had a great season or been in top form. I'd say hendo is in with a strong shout to start.

I don't think itoje is certain to start. He's been blown off the park during the six nations. You can't afford that during the lions

Clegg

sydthebeat wrote: »

Kelleher staying on with the lions for another week.

You'd have to guess that he'll be the first call up if one of the hookers in the squad gets injured.

This is a fantastic opportunity for him to develop his game. He'll be training with world class players and coaches from outside the Ireland and Leinster system and learning different methods. BOD said he improved a lot as a player after being exposed to different coaching methods on the 2001 tour.

AbusesToilets

Clegg wrote: »

You'd have to guess that he'll be the first call up if one of the hookers in the squad gets injured.

This is a fantastic opportunity for him to develop his game. He'll be training with world class players and coaches from outside the Ireland and Leinster system and learning different methods. BOD said he improved a lot as a player after being exposed to different coaching methods on the 2001 tour.

I was genuinely astounded he got left out. I wonder if there's some regret on Gatlands part now. He was the form hooker by a mile, played CD off the park.

TRC10

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I was genuinely astounded he got left out. I wonder if there's some regret on Gatlands part now. He was the form hooker by a mile, played CD off the park.

Gats probably still had concerns over his set piece from the 6N.

To be fair to Kelleher it looks as though he's ironed out some of those issues since the 6N, in the big European games his darts were fairly sound. But it probably came too late in the season to put him ahead of LCD.

Bridge93

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I was genuinely astounded he got left out. I wonder if there's some regret on Gatlands part now. He was the form hooker by a mile, played CD off the park.

I would say its more to do with Jamie George's season only ending yesterday and Cowan Dickie being away for another week. Just need bodies

TRC10

So with the Exeter guys in a final on Saturday and the Bristol, Saracens and Sale players only coming into camp this week, we'll probably see something like this v Japan.

I think Gats will go with as many of his test team as he can to build continuity and familiarity etc and also because it's against a good side.

15-Williams
14-Watson
13-Henshaw
12-Aki
11-LRZ
10-Biggar
9-Murray
1-Sutherland/Jones
2-Owens
3-Furlong
4-Henderson
5-A.W.Jones
6-Beirne
7-Watson
8-Faletau

16-George/Kelleher?
17-Jones/Sutherland
18-Fagerson
19-Lawes
20-Tipuric/Conan
21-Davies/Price
22-Farrell/Russell (Not ideal as they're both only coming into camp this week, but there's no other cover at 10, Hogg not there either)
23-VDM/Adams

AbusesToilets

Bridge93 wrote: »

I would say its more to do with Jamie George's season only ending yesterday and Cowan Dickie being away for another week. Just need bodies

For sure, it's more that he could look at the respective performances and rate those players ahead of him. Water under the bridge at this stage.

theVersatile

https://www.lionsrugby.com/2021/06/22/lions-team-to-play-japan-in-1888-cup

Starting XV

15. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833
14. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales)
13. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland)
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland)
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
9. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
1. Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland)
2. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland)
4. Iain Henderson (Ulster Rugby, Ireland) #808
5. Alun Wyn Jones – Captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761
6. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland)
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland)
8. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland)

Replacements:

16. Jamie George (Saracens, England) #819
17. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales)
18. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
20. Taulupe Faletau (Bath Rugby, Wales) #779
21. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland)
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816

Shaka Hislop

A mix of test definites & maybes...good balance...Conan has a chance to stake a big claim here

blackwhite

One or two Scots in there who wouldn't be expected to make the Test 15

sydthebeat

a completely non english starting 15

TRC10

Great chance for Tadhg Beirne early on. That 6 jersey is wide open.

I think Conan will thrive v Japan. But he has a big job on his hands beating Faletau to the 8 shirt. Hopefully he has a big game.

The halfbacks will probably be the 1st test pairing. Very excited to see how they go.

Big opportunity for Sutherland too, as loosehead is wide open too.

No lack of familiarity in the centres. Wouldn't be the first time they have a big game in Murrayfield...

Shaka Hislop

sydthebeat wrote: »

a completely non english starting 15

And all of the Irish players in the 23

Cosmo Kramer

From an Irish point of view big early opportunities for Aki, Beirne, Conan and Henderson in this game. The risk is that the first game can be as much an opportunity to play your way out of contention as it is to play your way in. The Lions looked extremely disjointed in their first game four years ago and for a few players involved it was the beginning of the end of their test hopes. This is a slight concern as all seven Irish players have been named in the 23 for this game.

They will need to hit the ground running here, with no midweek games during the tests there's going to be a dozen or so players holding tackle bags for the last three weeks of the tour so a good start will be needed to avoid that fate.

ブレイブ・ブロッサムズ
15. Gerhard van den Heever
14. ヴァル アサエリ愛
13. 稲垣 啓太
12. ヘルウヴェ
11. 姫野 和樹
10. リーチ マイケル
9. 小沢直樹
1. 新井幸輝
2. 松田 力也
3. 田村 優
4. 中村 亮土
5. 高橋太一
6. 山中 亮平
7. 茂野海人
8. 堀越 康介

Squidgy Black

sydthebeat wrote: »

a completely non english starting 15

Would imagine the fact that the English season ran so late played a part in that but still mental to see.

arsebiscuits1

TRC10 wrote: »

Gats probably still had concerns over his set piece from the 6N.

To be fair to Kelleher it looks as though he's ironed out some of those issues since the 6N, in the big European games his darts were fairly sound. But it probably came too late in the season to put him ahead of LCD.

His set piece issues are a misnomer in the 6 nations.

Between the beginning of the 6 nations and up to Leinster game against Ulster on the 13th of May Kellehers success rate was 89% from touch

He had no losses against Wales, one against France (which was recovered for his try), 1 against Italy, 1 against Scotland, none against England.

Comparable stats to George and Owens

TRC10

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

His set piece issues are a misnomer in the 6 nations.

Between the beginning of the 6 nations and up to Leinster game against Ulster on the 13th of May Kellehers success rate was 89% from touch

He had no losses against Wales, one against France (which was recovered for his try), 1 against Italy, 1 against Scotland, none against England.

Comparable stats to George and Owens

He was on the bench for 4/5 6N games, so it makes sense that he'd have only a few misses.

He's been very good for Leinster recently, which is probably why his percentages are good, but I think most would agree that throwing has been a weakness in his game up until recently.

TRC10

Jeremy Beagle wrote: »

ブレイブ・ブロッサムズ
15. Gerhard van den Heever
14. ヴァル アサエリ愛
13. 稲垣 啓太
12. ヘルウヴェ
11. 姫野 和樹
10. リーチ マイケル
9. 小沢直樹
1. 新井幸輝
2. 松田 力也
3. 田村 優
4. 中村 亮土
5. 高橋太一
6. 山中 亮平
7. 茂野海人
8. 堀越 康介

Big call to leave out ランダムな日本人

TRC10

TRC10 wrote: »

Big call to leave out ランダムな日本人

That's random

lawrencesummers

TRC10 wrote: »

Big call to leave out ランダムな日本人

It’s a sign.

Lost Ormond

Is this first time we've had a game where a player from each of the provinces starts for the Lions

bilston

This might be a stupid question, but I take it this is a proper test match, therefore all these players involved will be Test Lions after Saturday?

sydthebeat

bilston wrote: »

This might be a stupid question, but I take it this is a proper test match, therefore all these players involved will be Test Lions after Saturday?

I don't think that decision has been made yet.

Its likely it will be, but that's not office yet

Lost Ormond

bilston wrote: »

This might be a stupid question, but I take it this is a proper test match, therefore all these players involved will be Test Lions after Saturday?

No. Would be same as Argentinian game before 05 tour. its just a warm up game and not a test match.

sydthebeat

Lost Ormond wrote: »

No. Would be same as Argentinian game before 05 tour. its just a warm up game and not a test match.

They retrospectively made that a test game.

Buer

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Is this first time we've had a game where a player from each of the provinces starts for the Lions

1983, a player from each province started together in a test match:

Ciarán Fitzgerald
Mike Kiernan
Ollie Campbell
David Irwin

Captain_Crash

bilston wrote: »

This might be a stupid question, but I take it this is a proper test match, therefore all these players involved will be Test Lions after Saturday?

It’s confirmed that players will receive a cap and a lion number, but whether it’s a test cap or not hasn’t been decided yet. I’d expect them to classify it as a test tho!

TRC10

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It’s confirmed that players will receive a cap and a lion number, but whether it’s a test cap or not hasn’t been decided yet. I’d expect them to classify it as a test tho!

You receive a number for any game you play for the Lions, test match or not.

This is a tricky one because I suppose it is technically a test match because it's against an international team.

But traditionally the 'test series' is the climax of a Lions tour and those who play in the series are considered 'test Lions'

So while those we play on Saturday will technically have played a test match, they won't be considered Test Lions for playing in it.

But anyone who plays for the Lions, against anyone, is a Lion and they get a number.

Captain_Crash

TRC10 wrote: »

You receive a number for any game you play for the Lions, test match or not.

This is a tricky one because I suppose it is technically a test match because it's against an international team.

But traditionally the 'test series' is the climax of a Lions tour and those who play in the series are considered 'test Lions'

So while those we play on Saturday will technically have played a test match, they won't be considered Test Lions for playing in it.

But anyone who plays for the Lions, against anyone, is a Lion and they get a number.

Just rehashing what I read on Sky, I presumed the number was a reference to it not being a tour game but numbers still being given! I don’t know if that’s always been case of not tho

arsebiscuits1

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It’s confirmed that players will receive a cap and a lion number, but whether it’s a test cap or not hasn’t been decided yet. I’d expect them to classify it as a test tho!

Given how hard World Rugby have been pushing Japanese rugby in recent years and how beneficial it is to everyone for Japan to cement themselves as a genuine tier 1 nation I think making this game a bona fide Test is no brainer.

I'm aware World Rugby have no sway in this decision, just pointing out what has happened in recent years.

I think it would be quite a big deal for Japanese Rugby to say they've played a Test against the Lions.

If we were in a position where we needed to play France in a warm up game, I have no doubt there would be no ambiguity as to the test status of it

Clegg

Hamish Watson is out of this weekends game after suffering a concussion during training. He'll be replaced by Justin Tipuric. Watson is now following the RTTP. That probably rules him out of the first test Vs South Africa. Also makes his chances of getting a place for the remaining tests very questionable.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1407696191450669056?s=09

Cookiemunster

Clegg wrote: »

Hamish Watson is out of this weekends game after suffering a concussion during training. He'll be replaced by Justin Tipuric. Watson is now following the RTTP. That probably rules him out of the first test Vs South Africa. Also makes his chances of getting a place for the remaining tests very questionable.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1407696191450669056?s=09

The first test is a month away. He could be back in training in a week. The concussion doesn't rule him out of anything.

Sheep Shagger

Radio coverage of the tour will be on Off the ball (Newstalk)....

https://radiotoday.ie/2021/06/newstalk-to-broadcast-lions-test-series-with-otb/

Clegg

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The first test is a month away. He could be back in training in a week. The concussion doesn't rule him out of anything.

So it is.

Got my dates mixed up. Thought the first test was on the 17th of July.

TRC10

Having given it some thought, I absolutely don't think the Japan game should be classed as a "test match"

We won't be saying on Saturday, that A.W.Jones has played his 10th Lions test.

If Duhan van der Merwe doesn't play a minute vs SA, we won't be saying he's a "test Lion" because he played against Japan.

Lions tours are about the test series. The Lions shouldn't be playing other international teams outside the test series in the first place.

But seen as they are, I think it devalues the concept of Lions tests if they call this game a test match. Gatland doesn't even have a full squad to pick from.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1407792764226527235?s=19

Dave_The_Sheep

Almost like having a Lions Tour during a pandemic in a country that's riddled with it isn't actually a good idea, but all about the money.