Lions Tour

Cosmo Kramer

Although I suspect this will end up being classified as a test match, I think it devalues Lions test caps by doing it. Test caps should be limited to the 23s that make match day squads for the end of series test matches, not given to a load of third rate Scots and the like getting capped in what is effectively a warm up game because Gregor Townsend has pitched for them at the selection meetings and because the English season finished later than the Rainbow Cup.

I see this game as being similar to a world cup warm up game - for what it's worth I don't personally like seeing caps issued for RWC warm up games either - I feel it devalues international caps by doing it.

Dave_The_Sheep

On an unrelated note, I've been streaming the Lions series since 1997 for a few friends to watch together as a build up to the series this year, bit of fun (yes we even watched 2005 again ... why).

We watched the 2009 first test this evening. Quite how SA didn't spend quite a bit of time at the end of the second half at least a man down is beyond me. But all the same, seriously tight game and if Jones had hit his points and Monye hadn't ****ed two tries (even if one was a great tackle from De Villiers), totally different game. I expect to be similarly enraged when we watch the second test when Burger gets a yellow card. Looking forward to that game though, because it was mental.

lawrencesummers

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1407792764226527235?s=19

I don’t see why it’s deeply concerning.

I’m very happy that the best Rugby players in this country are vaccinated so they don’t get sick, and if it’s good enough for the best Irish rugby players then i cant complain when other nations get it.

AFAIK there are no fans traveling so what’s the increased level of risk? I just don’t see what is increasing the risk to say it’s deeply concerning.

Shaka Hislop

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I don’t see why it’s deeply concerning.

I’m very happy that the best Rugby players in this country are vaccinated so they don’t get sick, and if it’s good enough for the best Irish rugby players then i cant complain when other nations get it.

AFAIK there are no fans traveling so what’s the increased level of risk? I just don’t see what is increasing the risk to say it’s deeply concerning.

Just because you are vaccinated doesn't mean you can't get sick
There will be ancillary staff travelling who may not be vaccinated, sports journalists travelling who may not be vaccinated.
People aren't always forthcoming about cases as we see today with North Macedonia in the Europeans, seems they are being investigated for having active cases when playing Holland.
An outbreak, and a third wave approaching does not bode well for SA....the idea of playing rugby while people could be sick and dying in the area is not a very good one imo

lawrencesummers

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

Just because you are vaccinated doesn't mean you can't get sick
There will be ancillary staff travelling who may not be vaccinated, sports journalists travelling who may not be vaccinated.
People aren't always forthcoming about cases as we see today with North Macedonia in the Europeans, seems they are being investigated for having active cases when playing Holland.
An outbreak, and a third wave approaching does not bode well for SA....the idea of playing rugby while people could be sick and dying in the area is not a very good one imo

Every game of rugby in the history of games of rugby has been played while people are sick and dying in the area.

OldRio

The Lions don't worry about other peoples misery. Why would they? It's never bothered them before.
Covid? No problem. Apartheid? Nothing to do with us.

Keep those tills ringing. Money money money.

Shaka Hislop

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Every game of rugby in the history of games of rugby has been played while people are sick and dying in the area.

Not in an area that has approx 60k deaths during a pandemic that seems to be surging again

lawrencesummers

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

Not in an area that has approx 60k deaths during a pandemic that seems to be surging again

None of which are the cause of rugby, or will be cured by not playing rugby.

Moral outrage is a pointless waste of time.

sydthebeat

South Africa itself is still only at level 3 restrictions out of a possible 5 levels.

Shaka Hislop

lawrencesummers wrote: »

None of which are the cause of rugby, or will be cured by not playing rugby.

Moral outrage is a pointless waste of time.

And once again you ignored 90% of my original post... selective quoting seems to be your little forté

lawrencesummers

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

And once again you ignored 90% of my original post... selective quoting seems to be your little forté

That’s because 90% of your post was pointless conjecture not worthy of a response.

Former Former Former

The optics might not be great but there's very little risk in terms of Covid impact to the Lions group or of the Lions making the local situation worse.

On the other hand, the SARU have (presumably) been banking on the income from this tour. I'd imagine the IRFU, WRU, SRU and RFU can afford to take the hit a lot more than the hosts. They would be the big losers from a cancellation.

I doubt anyone will be pushing to pull the plug.

TXPTGR1

Would be fantastic if this farce of a “sporting” event was cancelled
I guess apartheid didn’t stop lions touring to South Africa (until we’ll after everyone else) so why would a pandemic eh

Shaka Hislop

lawrencesummers wrote: »

That’s because 90% of your post was pointless conjecture not worthy of a response.

Nothing worthy to add, as usual, cool

Former Former Former

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

Not in an area that has approx 60k deaths during a pandemic that seems to be surging again

In fairness, the Covid situation in Ireland in January was worse and no one suggested that we cancel the 6N.

Thrashssacre

Anyone know any pubs showing the Japan test? Can't trust the locals with the euros on and only one TV available.

lawrencesummers

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

Nothing worthy to add, as usual, cool

What’s the point in responding to your line about “just because your vaccinated doesn’t mean you can’t get sick”

Should i examine the risk factors related to flying versus somebody who has received a proven vaccine and then determine how stupid a statement you just made is? Surely there is a risk of flying as well that is equally as tiny.

Should I point out to you that very publicly the Lions have indicated that ALL members of the touring party are vaccinated? Even though you seem to worry that some aren’t?

Should I point out that journalists travel for work? And if they are not vaccinated then they have refused a vaccine as is their want and they will be subject to testing and quarantine protocols as determined locally.

So yea, 90% of what you posted is tripe. The lions are taking a huge number of measures and they have been granted permission by the local authorities to proceed, the stadiums will be empty unfortunately so please point out what the actual risks are because of this tour an il gladly accept your point.


Otherwise I’m looking forward to watching it.

lawrencesummers

TXPTGR1 wrote: »

Would be fantastic if this farce of a “sporting” event was cancelled
I guess apartheid didn’t stop lions touring to South Africa (until we’ll after everyone else) so why would a pandemic eh

Imagine you had another channel on your TV and didn’t have to watch it. Or if there were other forums on boards so you could just ignore it completely.

lawrencesummers

Former Former Former wrote: »

In fairness, the Covid situation in Ireland in January was worse and no one suggested that we cancel the 6N.

And the players or staff hadn’t been vaccinated either.

Cookiemunster

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Anyone know any pubs showing the Japan test? Can't trust the locals with the euros on and only one TV available.

The Lions game is on at 3pm. The first Euros game on Saturday kick off at 5pm. There's no clash.

Sheep Shagger

Hits the nail on the head....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/matt-williams-lions-spin-can-t-simply-gloss-over-covid-reality-in-south-africa-1.4596367%3fmode=amp

Lads, it's a money making machine now nothing else, has been since the late 90s.

All you hear is stage managed sanitised bull **** on social media and post match tour DVDs.

sydthebeat

when he compares the lions tour with the hunger games.... urrggghhh

Thrashssacre

Furlong starting at 3 now not ideal prep for the game losing two starters already.

theVersatile

So... do any of ye actually enjoy the Lions tours?

Former Former Former

I don't understand the "it's all about the money" angle.

Like, the Lions tour is about the only thing left over the amateur era that is basically the same. If some bank wants to hand over a wedge of cash to be the "offical financial services partner" of the Lions, who cares? It doesn't make any odds to the games. I don't see why people get so worked up about it, it makes absolutely no difference to the rugby. If you're upset that there is too much Lions promo stuff on your social, <deep intake of breath> spend less time on social media. Yes, it can be done.

On the other hand, this week we heard that Ireland are going to play a match against the rugby titans of the USA Eagles in that stronghold of the oval ball, Las Vegas, in a direct clash with the new URC only a month after it kicks off. That is all about the money.

This is pro sport. Money is a big part of it and that genie isn't going back in the bottle. I love the Lions, I think it's absolutely brilliant - and I just ignore all the commercial stuff, ignore Sky Sports hype and watch the games.

Matt Williams. Come on.

shootermacg

theVersatile wrote: »

So... do any of ye actually enjoy the Lions tours?

I don't really see the point of them myself. The always leave the players too overworked to manage the next season, and, we now have the case where most of the top 8 can beat the others, so it's not as big a deal taking the best from 4 teams, it's almost too much of an advantage.

TRC10

shootermacg wrote: »

I don't really see the point of them myself. The always leave the players too overworked to manage the next season, and, we now have the case where most of the top 8 can beat the others, so it's not as big a deal taking the best from 4 teams, it's almost too much of an advantage.

133 years of tradition, brilliant spectacle for fans and pinnacle of careers and greatest honour for the players

Didn't do our players too much harm after the last 2 tours.

What's the point in anything I guess

SoapMcTavish

TXPTGR1 wrote: »

Would be fantastic if this farce of a “sporting” event was cancelled
I guess apartheid didn’t stop lions touring to South Africa (until we’ll after everyone else) so why would a pandemic eh

Why are you on this thread ? Go to a pleasing thread.

FlubberJones

Absolutely LOVE the Lions tours, superb entertainment and an incredible spectacle when things are going "well / normal"

This year is a crazy logistical challenge but I really hope it pays off, as its the one and only time I can cheer for the Ire, Eng, Scot players... and cheer I do, all of these lads wearing the Lions jersey, brilliant stuff.

TRC10

It amazes me how many "rugby fans" are so keen to get rid of one of the few great things unique to rugby.

lawrencesummers

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Hits the nail on the head....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/matt-williams-lions-spin-can-t-simply-gloss-over-covid-reality-in-south-africa-1.4596367%3fmode=amp

Lads, it's a money making machine now nothing else, has been since the late 90s.

All you hear is stage managed sanitised bull **** on social media and post match tour DVDs.

When did sport become about money?

Say it ain’t so.

OldRio

SoapMcTavish wrote: »

Why are you on this thread ? Go to a pleasing thread.

Perhaps the poster is just making his or hers point. You know 'posting'

Former Former Former

shootermacg wrote: »

I don't really see the point of them myself. The always leave the players too overworked to manage the next season, and, we now have the case where most of the top 8 can beat the others, so it's not as big a deal taking the best from 4 teams, it's almost too much of an advantage.

Too much of an advantage?

In five tours this century, the Lions have one series win.

OldRio

lawrencesummers wrote: »

When did sport become about money?

Say it ain’t so.

Rugby about 1995ish.

lawrencesummers

theVersatile wrote: »

So... do any of ye actually enjoy the Lions tours?

I like watching rugby.
Doesn’t matter the team just once it’s some bit decent quality.

The lions has the greatest collection of players selected mostly on merit against a top class SH team so i find it great to watch.

Former Former Former

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I like watching rugby.
Doesn’t matter the team just once it’s some bit decent quality.

The lions has the greatest collection of players selected mostly on merit against a top class SH team so i find it great to watch.

And in a sport that never has more than ten competitive teams at international level, anything that adds a bit of variety has to be a good thing.

accensi0n

theVersatile wrote: »

So... do any of ye actually enjoy the Lions tours?

It's the rugby forum, where most of the posters are here because they enjoy rugby... and the Lions tour has rugby matches.. so, probably. :pac:

starkid

Former Former Former wrote: »

Too much of an advantage?

In five tours this century, the Lions have one series win.

i think thats his clear point though. for all intents and purposes its not as big a feat now. It just isn't.

you have four of the most professional teams in the World playing one nation. Its still a great test of rugby etc, but its in no way comparable to before imo. Probably post 2009 tour.

personally i have little love for the Lions as its always coinciding with our fallow periods, gives us a true indication of how overhyped Irish rugby is and also just causes complete bias. the disgraceful treatment by the uk press of POC comes to mind. like i'll watch it and cheer it on but if it was a test match with 1 or 2 of our lads only, i'd have no interest.

Its throughly depressing that some of our players, that we thought were going to be superstars are not there.

all that matters is once the players always buy in on both sides then its here to stay. its the harlem globetrotters, all star game of rugby. The Barbarians lost any ounce of glamour so this is it really, so its good to have it.

icdg

Lions v Japan has been picked up very late by VMTV it seems, and will be shown on VM Two, for anyone who doesn’t have access to Channel 4.

Former Former Former

starkid wrote: »

i think thats his clear point though. for all intents and purposes its not as big a feat now. It just isn't.

you have four of the most professional teams in the World playing one nation. Its still a great test of rugby etc, but its in no way comparable to before imo. Probably post 2009 tour.

Nah, that's just not true. Lions could just as easily have lost in 2013, needed some very lucky breaks and an Australian injury crisis in the first test to win, and then snatched a series draw in 2017 thanks to a refereeing call that was marginal at best.

Could have lost in 1989, could have won in 1993, could have lost in 1997, could/should have won in 2001, hammered in 2005, could have won in 2009, could have lost in 2013, could/should have won/lost in 2017. So going back 30 years, only one tour was a decisive win for either side and that ABs side of 2005 would have annihilated anyone; every other series could easily have gone the other way.

The nature of the Lions has not changed, only people's perceptions of it.

RugbyLover123

The Lions is what got me into rugby. Can’t understand any rugby fan that dislikes it. It may be a bit odd but I’d take it over a World Cup as a fan any day.

As for the moaning about the over commercialisation.. yawn. It’s necessary to engage the younger generation. Personally am loving the mini series on YouTube!

lawrencesummers

You can’t give out about the lions being about Money unless you expect the best professional players to take part for free, and these players undoubtedly deserve to get paid for what they are doing.

Sheep Shagger

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You can’t give out about the lions being about Money unless you expect the best professional players to take part for free, and these players undoubtedly deserve to get paid for what they are doing.

I don't dislike the Lions tour I've been fortunate to do two tours (to NZ and SA) to see it. Its fast being priced out of Joe soaps reach though as corporates hoover up tickets.

There's also aspects of the past that have gone, they now play professional teams in the midweek games instead of amateur teams. Often they try and portray its like the old days but its not really.

As for having it now in SA, I don't agree with that. The players are going to be kept in such a sanitised bubble and obviously there's going to be no supporters around.

They should have pulled the plug but commercial realities exist...that shoes what it's all about at the end of the day.

In saying all the above of course ill still watch it...

TRC10

starkid wrote: »

i think thats his clear point though. for all intents and purposes its not as big a feat now. It just isn't.

you have four of the most professional teams in the World playing one nation. Its still a great test of rugby etc, but its in no way comparable to before imo. Probably post 2009 tour.

personally i have little love for the Lions as its always coinciding with our fallow periods, gives us a true indication of how overhyped Irish rugby is and also just causes complete bias. the disgraceful treatment by the uk press of POC comes to mind. like i'll watch it and cheer it on but if it was a test match with 1 or 2 of our lads only, i'd have no interest.

Its throughly depressing that some of our players, that we thought were going to be superstars are not there.

all that matters is once the players always buy in on both sides then its here to stay. its the harlem globetrotters, all star game of rugby. The Barbarians lost any ounce of glamour so this is it really, so its good to have it.

I'm sorry, what!?

I'd have liked to see how the 2017 team got on against the ABs without Furlong, O'Brien, Murray and Sexton. Not too well I'd imagine.

Furlong, Murray and Henshaw are going to be key players in the test team this year and possibly Beirne and Henderson.

Your comment about the Lions proving how overhyped Irish rugby is, makes no sense.

If anything it shows that we produce just as many world class players as England and Wales and we actually underachieve on the International stage

sydthebeat

TRC10 wrote: »

I'm sorry, what!?

oh please dont go there....... :(

TRC10

sydthebeat wrote: »

oh please dont go there....... :(

sh*t, too late

starkid

TRC10 wrote: »

I'm sorry, what!?

I'd have liked to see how the 2017 team got on against the ABs without Furlong, O'Brien, Murray and Sexton. Not too well I'd imagine.

Furlong, Murray and Henshaw are going to be key players in the test team this year and possibly Beirne and Henderson.

Your comment about the Lions proving how overhyped Irish rugby is, makes no sense.

If anything it shows that we produce just as many world class players as England and Wales and we actually underachieve on the International stage

yeah not too well. Four of the best players to have ever played for IReland.

The reality is we've had loads of players we thought were amazing miss out on the Lions in recent years. Or get on tours and flop. So it does mostly prove Irish rugby's hubris. and for me that stings. i hated the way POC was treated by the english hacks when he was captain. some of the anti irish stuff has been pathetic imo.

Irish rugby is over hyped and the fact we could only muster 8 players this time around goes to show it is. Particularly when we were raving abour Ryan, Larmour, Stockdale and a few others.

We have Furlong, Henshaw and Murray most likely as our three starters this time around. Considering how much hype has been built up on thousands of pages on here its not that great. Anyway its to explain my personal dislike of the Lions concept as its always in the wrong period for us. Its a depressing thought that three of our best ever prospects aren't good enough. But thats also my issue with it. The tour isn't about true form at all. Farrell, Williams and one or two others going solely on reputation. Alot of the time it makes zero sense. i don;t like the fact Gatland has coached a few tours now as well. The whole idea is to refresh it imo.

IF thats cool with you, fair enough.

i wouldn't understand anybody wanting to cheer on a Lions team say if Henshaw was the only guy starting. The idea that it trumps the World Cup is just laughable imo. And the whole problem with Rugby Union as a global sport if that is the pervading attitude.

starkid

TRC10 wrote: »

sh*t, too late

oh hilarious stuff there

Lost Ormond

starkid wrote: »

i think thats his clear point though. for all intents and purposes its not as big a feat now. It just isn't.

you have four of the most professional teams in the World playing one nation. Its still a great test of rugby etc, but its in no way comparable to before imo. Probably post 2009 tour.

personally i have little love for the Lions as its always coinciding with our fallow periods, gives us a true indication of how overhyped Irish rugby is and also just causes complete bias. the disgraceful treatment by the uk press of POC comes to mind. like i'll watch it and cheer it on but if it was a test match with 1 or 2 of our lads only, i'd have no interest.

Its throughly depressing that some of our players, that we thought were going to be superstars are not there.

all that matters is once the players always buy in on both sides then its here to stay. its the harlem globetrotters, all star game of rugby. The Barbarians lost any ounce of glamour so this is it really, so its good to have it.

It most certainly is still as big a feat as it was before and the tours certainly dont always coincide with our fallow periods... 09 grand slam just one example.

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

I don't dislike the Lions tour I've been fortunate to do two tours (to NZ and SA) to see it. Its fast being priced out of Joe soaps reach though as corporates hoover up tickets.

There's also aspects of the past that have gone, they now play professional teams in the midweek games instead of amateur teams. Often they try and portray its like the old days but its not really.

As for having it now in SA, I don't agree with that. The players are going to be kept in such a sanitised bubble and obviously there's going to be no supporters around.

They should have pulled the plug but commercial realities exist...that shoes what it's all about at the end of the day.

In saying all the above of course ill still watch it...

Its a professional game so of course they will play pro teams. They overwhelmingly have played pro teams in all tours since the sport went pro. It very much is tied to the old days...

stephen_n

starkid wrote: »

yeah not too well. Four of the best players to have ever played for IReland.

The reality is we've had loads of players we thought were amazing miss out on the Lions in recent years. Or get on tours and flop. So it does mostly prove Irish rugby's hubris.

Irish rugby is over hyped and the fact we could only muster 8 players this time around goes to show it is. Particularly when we were raving abour Ryan, Larmour, Stockdale and a few others.

Did it ever occur to you, so do England, Scotland and Wales? These things tend to happen when you’re only bringing 30-40 players out of a pool of 160/70.