Lions Tour

Former Former Former

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As for having it now in SA, I don't agree with that. The players are going to be kept in such a sanitised bubble and obviously there's going to be no supporters around.

They should have pulled the plug but commercial realities exist...that shoes what it's all about at the end of the day.

I genuinely don't understand this line of thinking.

You would rather it did not happen at all, than happen in empty stadiums?

If the players weren't in a bubble, you'd be complaining that they aren't taking any precautions or showing a lack of sensitivity to the local situation.

And if they pulled the plug, you and all the other critics would be jumping down their throats, saying that pulling the plug is incontrovertible evidence that the Lions only care about money, as soon as the figures didn't add up they walked away.

You would be complaining bitterly no matter what happened.

JUST

DON'T

WATCH

IT

starkid

stephen_n wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you, so do England, Scotland and Wales? These things tend to happen when you’re only bringing 30-40 players out of a pool of 160/70.

yeah and i never said it didn't. But funnily enough IReland always seems to get the short end of the stick. i wonder why that is? look alot of it is media bull****, but it still pisses me off. Hickey, ROG, Earls, POC as captain and even Sexton for a bit all got shredded by a stupid British press. I think it wasa that wanker Stephen Jones who mocked us calling us all potatoe eaters (O'Reilly alluded to this)

Its not just cause of us, its the whole imperial notion of the tour. IN reality England and Britain looks down on us.

Anyway its a personal reason. I think the lads are brilliant. But clearly we've overhyped them, and that is a depressing thought. In particularl Larmour, Stockdale, Ryan.

The tour of course still matters. they are still really hard to win. if Furlong, Henshaw, Murray are the lads starting in key positions id be fully behind it.

The point is though its not the same as before (say pre 2009) when 2 or 3 of the teams were so inconsistent and unprofessional. thats just a fact. it doesn't take anything away from it. But its why, shock horror, some rugby fans are indifferent to it. The Islands house some of the greatest teams in the World now. thats the reality. Different story for the players as its probably a pride thing, personal vindication amongst peers. as i said one of the only all star games in rugby.

i know i'm an outlier on this. I have a friend who is on the analyst ticket. he would tell me to stfu. I get it. its not a popular opinion. i'm not trying to convince anybody.

TRC10

starkid wrote: »

Irish rugby is over hyped and the fact we could only muster 8 players this time around goes to show it is. Particularly when we were raving abour Ryan, Larmour, Stockdale and a few others.

No it doesn't. That's just reductive.

TRC10

starkid wrote: »

oh hilarious stuff there

Go get some fresh air, it'll do you good

starkid

TRC10 wrote: »

Go get some fresh air, it'll do you good

another pithy response because you can't tease out your own argument. stating stuff as fact. reductive...what details am i leaving out? we had people saying Ryan captains the bloody squad. Now we just shrug and say oh right great he's playing USA. the details are obviously the other teams and the natural bias of Gatland and media hype. I'll accept that. But clearly our players aren't as highly thought of outside of IReland. And i'm not necessarily saying thse guys are overhyped in my personal opinion they aren't. Like they are seeing now how good Kelleher is. thats why overall, its such a frustrating process. anyway if you can't recall the criticism POC got as captain well then you probabl;y won't know what i'm getting at.

i've given you reasons. Again the argument has to be taken into an overall context. overhyped by fans, media, players themselves. we clearly can't be as good as we think we are when we have 8 lads touring. and how many outside backs? personally i'd be despondent about that. if its not about being overhyped, its still very disappointing.

Look whatever makes you happy. Lets pretend its not an issue. as i said its only but one of the issues i have against it. the squad isn't based on reality either. Farrell starts...why like? Aki shouldn't be anywhere near the squad if it was based on reality and form etc. thats part of the same line of reasoning. and again its why i personally don't get too exicted about it. The rugby itself, as a sport, is always amazing. the rest, the politics and nuances just piss me off.

TRC10

starkid wrote: »

another pithy response because you can't tease out your own argument. stating stuff as fact. reductive...what details am i leaving out? we had people saying Ryan captains the bloody squad. Now we just shrug and say oh right great he's playing USA. the details are obviously the other teams and the natural bias of Gatland and media hype. I'll accept that. But clearly our players aren't as highly thought of outside of IReland. And i'm not necessarily saying thse guys are overhyped in my personal opinion they aren't. Like they are seeing now how good Kelleher is. thats why overall, its such a frustrating process. anyway if you can't recall the criticism POC got as captain well then you probabl;y won't know what i'm getting at.

i've given you reasons. Again the argument has to be taken into an overall context. overhyped by fans, media, players themselves. we clearly can't be as good as we think we are when we have 8 lads touring. and how many outside backs? personally i'd be despondent about that. if its not about being overhyped, its still very disappointing.

Look whatever makes you happy. Lets pretend its not an issue. as i said its only but one of the issues i have against it. the squad isn't based on reality either. Farrell starts...why like? Aki shouldn't be anywhere near the squad if it was based on reality and form etc. thats part of the same line of reasoning. and again its why i personally don't get too exicted about it. The rugby itself, as a sport, is always amazing. the rest, the politics and nuances just piss me off.

Who are these people who think we're better than we are?

Can you give any examples? Players? Pundits? Journalists?

I think most people we're pretty realistic about how many we'd have in the current squad given we've been pretty poor for 3 years now. If anything, people were expecting fewer than 8. I for one, wasn't expecting either Ryan or Ringrose.

starkid

TRC10 wrote: »

Who are these people who think we're better than we are?

Can you give any examples? Players? Pundits? Journalists?

a quick glance at tonnes of threads on here will you give you the answer. Pick up a few papers as well.

Why are you sealioning for such freely available information.

anyway as i should make clear, I personally think James Ryan is an amazing lock forward. Lacking a small bit of bulk. It could be as easily framed as Britain underrating our players. i should have said that as well. kind of like the way Irish footballers cost nothing but their English equivalents go for multiple millions. that too pisses me off. SO either we are overhyping them, or UK underrates us, or we are just damn unlucky always picking form in the wrong years in between tours or world cups. Loads of Welsh and ENglish players ridiculously overrated as individual players. look it is what it is. its my personal opinion, wrong or not.

JAmes Ryans based on stats alone should be on tour. The Irish players know this. I think Henderson said he was shocked. Based on stats that loads of people on the forum always use as backup for the people who get criticised for "unseen" work. Again a tour based on loads of hype either way. Stander was one of the top carriers in the 6 Nations that kind of jazz. I don;t like his style but the facts and stats back him over Conan. Again its the part of the way the tour completely distorts reality. I'm not arguing the IRish players are over hyped per se, in that sense. On reflection the underrating of "the Paddy" is what pisses me off most. I should have really framed it that way. again this was evident with some of our best ever players. POC as captain and Sexton being demoted on kicking and being left out. Drico as well that time. Rugby is the only time in life i get that chip on the shoulder about Britain and its attitudes towards us. the slating Earls got on those early games was toxic imo. It wouldn't have happened if he was British.

TomsOnTheRoof

The above poster does make some valid points, even if they are stirring quite a bit. Gatland is without a doubt a brilliant coach but it has become stale with him at the helm. It's the same faces, the same story that we've gotten since 2013.

We also do have a tendency to massively over hype our players. Ryan is a perfect example of this. People have had him earmarked as a future Irish captain since day one. At this moment in time he shouldn't even be starting for us. Ringrose is another. A very good club player but to my mind he lacks what it takes to become a world class international. I'd have Henshaw ahead of him at 13 all day long. To be clear it's not just Leinster players who suffer from this, it's just that they tend to get the most coverage.

The Lions can be great to watch, they've given us some classic tests down through the years and you occasionally get decent midweek games too. However, the relentless coverage and the matey banter of fellas like Quinnell and Co. are a turnoff. It's in danger of becoming a parody of itself.

aloooof

starkid wrote: »

another pithy response because you can't tease out your own argument. stating stuff as fact. reductive...what details am i leaving out? we had people saying Ryan captains the bloody squad. Now we just shrug and say oh right great he's playing USA. the details are obviously the other teams and the natural bias of Gatland and media hype. I'll accept that. But clearly our players aren't as highly thought of outside of IReland. And i'm not necessarily saying thse guys are overhyped in my personal opinion they aren't. Like they are seeing now how good Kelleher is. thats why overall, its such a frustrating process. anyway if you can't recall the criticism POC got as captain well then you probabl;y won't know what i'm getting at.

i've given you reasons. Again the argument has to be taken into an overall context. overhyped by fans, media, players themselves. we clearly can't be as good as we think we are when we have 8 lads touring. and how many outside backs? personally i'd be despondent about that. if its not about being overhyped, its still very disappointing.

Look whatever makes you happy. Lets pretend its not an issue. as i said its only but one of the issues i have against it. the squad isn't based on reality either. Farrell starts...why like? Aki shouldn't be anywhere near the squad if it was based on reality and form etc. thats part of the same line of reasoning. and again its why i personally don't get too exicted about it. The rugby itself, as a sport, is always amazing. the rest, the politics and nuances just piss me off.

Are you not just doing the exact same thing here yourself?

Anyways, not to get too bogged down in the arguments, I always enjoy the novelty of the Lions, even if the hype / media gets ridiculous. The culmination of that in the last series was a Warburton interview after the 2nd test. The interviewer, so keen to lean on the hype, tripped over himself to use the phrase "grandchildren to tell time moment".

sprucemoose

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Ringrose is another. A very good club player but to my mind he lacks what it takes to become a world class international. I'd have Henshaw ahead of him at 13 all day long.

im afraid you are simply incorrect on this. ringrose has the talent to be one of the best centres in the world but he is incredibly injury prone unfortunately and so we havent seen enough of it from him yet. when theyre on form though ringrose and henshaw are our best combination by a mile

starkid

aloooof wrote: »

Are you not just doing the exact same thing here yourself?

Anyways, not to get too bogged down in the arguments, I always enjoy the novelty of the Lions, even if the hype / media gets ridiculous. The culmination of that in the last series was a Warburton interview after the 2nd test. The interviewer, so keen to lean on the hype, tripped over himself to use the phrase "grandchildren to tell time moment".

yeah i am but at least ive proffered a reasoning. And ive stated its an outlier.

YEah agreed look i think the actual rugby itself is usually fantastic. i hope a good chunk of the Irish players can be core members of a winning tour.

And i suppose thats all that matters.

TomsOnTheRoof

sprucemoose wrote: »

im afraid you are simply incorrect on this. ringrose has the talent to be one of the best centres in the world but he is incredibly injury prone unfortunately and so we havent seen enough of it from him yet. when theyre on form though ringrose and henshaw are our best combination by a mile

I don't agree. I think he lacks the top end pace necessary to exploit those little half breaks. If he was a more physically direct player this wouldn't be an issue but he isn't. He may be injury prone but I think we've seen plenty enough of him to gauge what he's capable of. Just to be clear, I have nothing against him. I think he's a fine player but I don't buy into a lot of the hype about him being one of the first names on the team sheet.

starkid

Ringrose is unlucky. But he's an example of a guy where people would have laughed if you said he's not going on the Lions in 2021 when he finally became a mainstay of the IRish team. Same with Ryan. I have a weird feeling Ryan will get a call up due to injury.

Its kind of sad we don't have any back three players in the conversation.

Dave_The_Sheep

Indeed. He just can't exploit those little half breaks. I've heard it all now.

Various.

All of two minutes.

sydthebeat

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

I don't agree. I think he lacks the top end pace necessary to exploit those little half breaks. If he was a more physically direct player this wouldn't be an issue but he isn't. He may be injury prone but I think we've seen plenty enough of him to gauge what he's capable of. Just to be clear, I have nothing against him. I think he's a fine player but I don't buy into a lot of the hype about him being one of the first names on the team sheet.

hummmm

TomsOnTheRoof

sydthebeat wrote: »

hummmm

To be fair it's a great break but he's hardly ripping it up there. I've seen Stander and Whitelock run them in from that distance.

sprucemoose

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

To be fair it's a great break but he's hardly ripping it up there.

he sort of is though.......

OneLungDavy

Ringrose is a strange one. I think we over-hype him in Ireland, not sure he's really rated outside these shores. He's quality but he's missing something to punch him onto the next level, injuries most likely hampering him. Some absolute brain-farts don't help his case either.

Richie_Rich89

Good support play by Gibson-Park in that try against Clermont. Ringrose's dummy wouldn't have been on if JGP hadn't been there for a pass.

I wouldn't mind seeing Ringrose going off to play for the 7s in the World Series to round out his game ahead of the World Cup. Stockdale too, maybe.

sydthebeat

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

To be fair it's a great break but he's hardly ripping it up there. I've seen Stander and Whitelock run them in from that distance.

strange reply

poster "i dont think player A is good at doing X"

reply "heres videos clips of Player A doing X"

poster "ah that doesn count cos but ive seen others do that"

lets not forget his first irish caps were on the wing.
you dont put a slow player on the wing in a test game.

aloooof

sydthebeat wrote: »

you dont put a slow player on the wing in a test game.

This is gonna open up a Dave Kearney-shaped can of worms, isn't it...

Former Former Former

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

To be fair it's a great break but he's hardly ripping it up there. I've seen Stander and Whitelock run them in from that distance.

CJ Stander? From inside his own 10 metre line?

Former Former Former

sydthebeat wrote: »

lets not forget his first irish caps were on the wing.
you dont put a slow player on the wing in a test game.

He played wing for Leinster but never Ireland IIRC.

sydthebeat

Former Former Former wrote: »

He played wing for Leinster but never Ireland IIRC.

my bad.. getting his debuts mixed up

sprucemoose

sydthebeat wrote: »

lets not forget his first irish caps were on the wing. you dont put a slow player on the wing in a test game.

no, his first leinster caps were from what i remember. he played 13 against canada and 12 against NZ & Aus

Former Former Former wrote: »

CJ Stander? From inside his own 10 metre line?

in one of his early games for munster he scored one from his own 22 from what i remember. mightve been playing 7 too but im not too sure

starkid

Former Former Former wrote: »

CJ Stander? From inside his own 10 metre line?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botCDr52vKY

unfortunately for Stander this level of skill was coached out of him by Joe and others.

Richie_Rich89

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botCDr52vKY

lawrencesummers

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

I don't dislike the Lions tour I've been fortunate to do two tours (to NZ and SA) to see it. Its fast being priced out of Joe soaps reach though as corporates hoover up tickets.

There's also aspects of the past that have gone, they now play professional teams in the midweek games instead of amateur teams. Often they try and portray its like the old days but its not really.

As for having it now in SA, I don't agree with that. The players are going to be kept in such a sanitised bubble and obviously there's going to be no supporters around.

They should have pulled the plug but commercial realities exist...that shoes what it's all about at the end of the day.

In saying all the above of course ill still watch it...

The tour isn’t priced out of anyone’s hands, the official travel is expensive, but you can go it alone an not stay in 4 star hotels if you want. That’s a lot cheaper. Japan cost 5k per person on an official tour that mimicked for under 2.

As for playing professional teams only it would be stupid and downright negligent putting those athletes up against anything other than fully developed professionals.

If SA came here and played an AIL team how do you think that would fare out physically for the Irish players?

People seem to forget the physical difference between the modern day athlete and the historic part timer that played rugby in between bouts of drunkness and smoked fags consistently.

Former Former Former

starkid wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botCDr52vKY

Begorrah.

starkid wrote: »

unfortunately for Stander this level of skill was coached out of him by Joe and others.

Sweet jesus you've some list of grudges.

starkid

Former Former Former wrote: »

Begorrah.



Sweet jesus you've some list of grudges.

ha yeah i do. well i wouldn;t say grudges, just particular points of view. uncommon and unpopular.

but in fairness if he could still do that, like the one against Italy as well he'd be on the Lions tour i'd imagine.

btw do we reckon Standers on the standby list or is he gone gone..

molloyjh

starkid wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botCDr52vKY

unfortunately for Stander this level of skill was coached out of him by Joe and others.

Yep, because Irelands lost successful coach was all about de-skilling players.

Hot takes everywhere I see. Wonderful.

AbusesToilets

If Ringrose played in Super Rugby, he'd probably look a lot better, in that defenses in NH tend to be stingier. He's very good at running back against the grain and doing that half duck through defenders to make the break.

He's one of the best passing centres playing at the moment, he's far better than Davies is for example. I hope the trend of him being used as a playmaker is continued. I wonder if the recent uptick of him kicking is him looking to expand his value as a player?

starkid

molloyjh wrote: »

Yep, because Irelands lost successful coach was all about de-skilling players.

Hot takes everywhere I see. Wonderful.

well according to Best and now Tuohy its not really a myth. Stander became a much simpler player. Possibly a better one but one that isn't associated with the above. so much so people had it scrubbed from their minds. The same stuff "he's good on hard ground" etc etc when it comes to Lions talk, forgetting CJ was made from those same grounds. Schmidt clearly wanted Stander to be a close in carrier. Its indisputable and on record. I'd even iamgine we'll hear more from CJ about it.

Will be interesting to see if he's on a list.

And yeah i also think Ringrose has suffered from the same inate conservatism in Irish rugby. Such a shame.

bilston

I thought Ringrose would have made it up until about halfway through the 6Ns. He is an integral part of the Irish backline. Did he miss some of the 6Ns? I can't really remember. I know he had the jaw injury earlier in the season.

It seems to me that Ryan and Ringrose had ill timed injuries. Stockdale has had injuries, but the biggest issue is his confidence after dropping the ball over the line against Leinster a couple of years in the European Q/F.

All three can come again and are young enough to be part of the 2025 and maybe even 2029 Lions tours if form and fitness allow.

Larmour I'm less sure about. A great talent, very exciting in open spaces. Has he translated that into test rugby yet? Again he has had injuries. He has time on his side, but I didn't think he was ever part of the Lions conversation.

Ryan will have been close, so too clearly was Kelleher. Ringrose missed out, but so did Jonathan Davies. The midfield selected isn't exactly inspirational when you think of the last few tours with the likes of BOD, Davies, Greenwood and Roberts etc, maybe Ringrose could have brought something a bit different. It just shows how Gatland sees his centres. Part of me wouldn't be that surprised if Chris Farrell was as close to selection as Ringrose. All moot now he is injured anyway I suppose.

thomond2006

"Joe Schmidt was the worst thing to ever happen to Irish rugby."

A comment once overheard by yours truly in Thomond Park.

Bazzo

bilston wrote: »

I thought Ringrose would have made it up until about halfway through the 6Ns. He is an integral part of the Irish backline. Did he miss some of the 6Ns? I can't really remember. I know he had the jaw injury earlier in the season.

He started all but the last game in the 6N which he missed due to injury but it was a string of fairly muted performances. Aki and Henshaw performed much better in the England match as a pair, although obviously Aki gets marked down for KOing Billy V.

Former Former Former

Just on Stander.

In his first season here, he couldn't even break into the Munster first team.

Within 4 years, he was a Lions test player.

Whatever coaching he got here, it seems to have worked.

sprucemoose

Bazzo wrote: »

He started all but the last game in the 6N which he missed due to injury but it was a string of fairly muted performances.

id say he was carrying an injury for the 6N, he was fairly muted apart from Italy and didnt notice him getting a knock or anything against scotland

Bazzo wrote: »

Aki and Henshaw performed much better in the England match as a pair, although obviously Aki gets marked down for KOing Billy V.

.......i dont think they did in attack though? defensively they were solid but for all of the positives from the game, there was nothing in attack outside sexton really

TRC10

sprucemoose wrote: »

.......i dont think they did in attack though? defensively they were solid but for all of the positives from the game, there was nothing in attack outside sexton really

Nah to be fair Aki was pretty good in attack. Especially in the 1st half and in the lead up to Conan's try, his distribution was very good (underrated part of his game as he was used purely as a crash 12 under Schmidt)

Think you're also being a bit unfair to Earls (who scored a couple of crackers) and also Stockdale and Keenan who were very good

aloooof

TRC10 wrote: »

Nah to be fair Aki was pretty good in attack. Especially in the 1st half and in the lead up to Conan's try, his distribution was very good (underrated part of his game as he was used purely as a crash 12 under Schmidt)

Think you're also being a bit unfair to Earls (who scored a couple of crackers) and also Stockdale and Keenan who were very good

Completely agree with this, tbh. The OP's sentiment has popped up once or twice recently, but I don't think it's well founded.

For the Conan try in particular we saw a number of note-worthy non-Sexton related things including:
- Aki stepping in at scrum-half, and with some good passing in general phase play.
- Earls stepping in at first receiver twice.
- A Furlong offload.
- Every player with the ball in their hands, outside of Henderson and Herring
- Conan scoring the try on penalty advantage, whereas previously we've been criticised for kicking it away.
- Patience. We had made little progress after 11 phases but continued with possession. Given how far England were hitting us behind the gainline in previous meetings, this was a clear improvement.

TRC10

[HTML][/HTML]

aloooof wrote: »

Completely agree with this, tbh. The OP's sentiment has popped up once or twice recently, but I don't think it's well founded.

For the Conan try in particular we saw a number of note-worthy non-Sexton related things including:
- Aki stepping in at scrum-half, and with some good passing in general phase play.
- Earls stepping in at first receiver twice.
- A Furlong offload.
- Every player with the ball in their hands, outside of Henderson and Herring
- Conan scoring the try on penalty advantage, whereas previously we've been criticised for kicking it away.
- Patience. We had made little progress after 11 phases but continued with possession. Given how far England were hitting us behind the gainline in previous meetings, this was a clear improvement.

In previous games, an Irish player would have just stepped over the ball and waited for the 9 to get there and play it, even if there was an overlap waiting to be untilised.

I know the term "heads up rugby" has been thrown around a lot and has become a bit of a cliché, but that's a perfect example of what's meant by "heads up rugby". Nobody thinks Ireland should become Fiji. Of course structure is important, but players shouldn't be made stick to the structure to the detriment of overlaps or try scoring opportunities.

I'm hoping that game wasn't just our typical flash in the pan performance because it's England, at home, last day, blah blah blah. But that it's actually the beginning of Ireland starting to build something.

bilston

TRC10 wrote: »

[HTML][/HTML]

I'm hoping that game wasn't just our typical flash in the pan performance because it's England, at home, last day, blah blah blah. But that it's actually the beginning of Ireland starting to build something.

I know we are in danger of going off topic a bit, but I'm very much in the "Ireland are building something" camp. However there are obvious issues at 10 and the fact we maybe lack a bit of X Factor in the backline, that's why I think a fully fit and on form Ringrose is essential to Ireland.

sydthebeat

bilston wrote: »

I know we are in danger of going off topic a bit, but I'm very much in the "Ireland are building something" camp. However there are obvious issues at 10 and the fact we maybe lack a bit of X Factor in the backline, that's why I think a fully fit and on form Ringrose is essential to Ireland.

ringrose, balacoune, larmour / stockdale, keenan

as 13 - 15 would have a decent level of X factor ie the ability to do things off the cuff regularly

TRC10

bilston wrote: »

I know we are in danger of going off topic a bit, but I'm very much in the "Ireland are building something" camp. However there are obvious issues at 10 and the fact we maybe lack a bit of X Factor in the backline, that's why I think a fully fit and on form Ringrose is essential to Ireland.

Personally, I'm skeptical.

England never really fired a shot all game and in the 2nd half we only really had to get into their half and they'd concede a penalty. It's also worth noting that both Scotland and Wales also dispatched of that England team comfortably enough.

I think that England game saved Farrell from having some serious questions asked. Even as it stands, it's been two very average/poor 6 Nations. The only other noteworthy performance of his tenure was against Wales in his 2nd game back in 2020.

stephen_n

starkid wrote: »

yeah and i never said it didn't. But funnily enough IReland always seems to get the short end of the stick. i wonder why that is? look alot of it is media bull****, but it still pisses me off. Hickey, ROG, Earls, POC as captain and even Sexton for a bit all got shredded by a stupid British press. I think it wasa that wanker Stephen Jones who mocked us calling us all potatoe eaters (O'Reilly alluded to this)

Its not just cause of us, its the whole imperial notion of the tour. IN reality England and Britain looks down on us.

Anyway its a personal reason. I think the lads are brilliant. But clearly we've overhyped them, and that is a depressing thought. In particularl Larmour, Stockdale, Ryan.

The tour of course still matters. they are still really hard to win. if Furlong, Henshaw, Murray are the lads starting in key positions id be fully behind it.

The point is though its not the same as before (say pre 2009) when 2 or 3 of the teams were so inconsistent and unprofessional. thats just a fact. it doesn't take anything away from it. But its why, shock horror, some rugby fans are indifferent to it. The Islands house some of the greatest teams in the World now. thats the reality. Different story for the players as its probably a pride thing, personal vindication amongst peers. as i said one of the only all star games in rugby.

i know i'm an outlier on this. I have a friend who is on the analyst ticket. he would tell me to stfu. I get it. its not a popular opinion. i'm not trying to convince anybody.

Scotland got 2 players in 2017, which end of the stick did they get?

Larmour, Stockdale, Ryan and Ringrose have all been in poor form for extended periods of times.

Practically the only team in the last 8 years that might be over represented, would be Wales. That’s purely because it’s easier for a coach to go with what he knows, when it’s a 50/50 call.

Suggesting that our players are overhyped is inaccurate and unhelpful.

lawrencesummers

thomond2006 wrote: »

"Joe Schmidt was the worst thing to ever happen to Irish rugby."

A comment once overheard by yours truly in Thomond Park.

Must have been dub on a rare visit because no self respecting musterman would pronounce his surname like that.

sprucemoose

TRC10 wrote: »

Personally, I'm skeptical.

England never really fired a shot all game and in the 2nd half we only really had to get into their half and they'd concede a penalty. It's also worth noting that both Scotland and Wales also dispatched of that England team comfortably enough.

I think that England game saved Farrell from having some serious questions asked. Even as it stands, it's been two very average/poor 6 Nations. The only other noteworthy performance of his tenure was against Wales in his 2nd game back in 2020.

agree 100% here. that game could be the start of an upturn, but england were very hit and miss in this 6N. for me, we also really struggled to break them down for all the possession we had. hopefully its a starting point but for me the jury is still out

youcancallmeal

It's gas, as far back as I can remember when Lion's tours rolls around all these people come out of the wood work saying how much they hate it and that it should be done away with. I was in South Africa 2009 for the 2nd test and there were people afterwards saying with a straight face, 'it doesn't work anymore, they should retire it'. This was being said despite the fact they had travelled all the way to SA and it was one of the most brutal, exciting, competitive Lion's games ever(imo).

schmoo2k

Ringrose wasn't picked because Gatland likes big straight runners, and this is especially true against SA? Lions is weird as you get to pick your best against a known opposition.

TRC10

schmoo2k wrote: »

Ringrose wasn't picked because Gatland likes big straight runners, and this is especially true against SA? Lions is weird as you get to pick your best against a known opposition.

I'd say it's more because he's struggled to put together a consistent run of form since the world cup.

I wouldn't exactly call Daly a big straight runner. I know there were other factors at play in Daly's selection, but ultimately if Ringrose was playing well enough he'd have been picked.