Lions Tour

Louis Friend

My preference would be to kick it out to 2022.

Yes, there are other tours scheduled, but most of the unions (e.g. Ireland) would probably take your hand off for a few bob to keep quiet.

If things are absolutely normal by early summer in this part of the world, you could see the Tests happening here, but things won’t be 100% normal. And without full stadia, the whole proposal doesn’t really work.

lawrencesummers

Has Tom Court changed his 2021 SA holiday to 2022 yet?

boetstark

Louis Friend wrote: »

This will be my 5th Lions Tour and I’ve been at 7 World Cups, so I’d consider myself pretty experienced. Seven, Jesus, I had to add them up!

I book it all myself. The hotels are fully cancellable. The tickets are from the South African Union via a pal of mine in South Africa so refundable if it doesn’t go ahead. And the flight can be rebooked so I’ll just use it to go somewhere else.

Was he successful in the ballot for tickets. All that is left for public sale is provincial games

boetstark

Louis Friend wrote: »

Ridiculous from Jones as usual.

Furlong will travel, Healy may travel, Ryan will travel, Stander will travel, Murray will travel, Sexton will travel, Ringrose will travel and Larmour may travel.

If Stander is back living in SA he will hardly play for lions v Springboks

lawrencesummers

I can’t remember how long ago it was that sexton played a game where i felt he looked likely to go on the next lions tour. Experience and attitude might get him on the plane, but currently form isn’t doing it.

He really needs to show in the next few months, and in the 6 nations because I think there are at least 5 others ahead of him:

F Russell
O Farrell
G Ford
Dan Biggar
Joe Simmons

sprucemoose

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I can’t remember how long ago it was that sexton played a game where i felt he looked likely to go on the next lions tour. Experience and attitude might get him on the plane, but currently form isn’t doing it.

He really needs to show in the next few months, and in the 6 nations because I think there are at least 5 others ahead of him:

F Russell
O Farrell
G Ford
Dan Biggar
Joe Simmons

russell showed in the H cup final why he at the very most would deserve to be on the bench, he's in the madigan/carbery camp of great player but not a great 10, scotland would be best putting him back at 12 where he played for the U20s and leave hastings at 10. as good as ford and simmons are i still think theyre behind sexton overall, especially since simmons hasnt played for eng yet. unfortunately sexton isn't getting a run atm without injury so i think hes 50-50 for the lions at this stage

lawrencesummers

sprucemoose wrote: »

russell showed in the H cup final why he at the very most would deserve to be on the bench, he's in the madigan/carbery camp of great player but not a great 10, scotland would be best putting him back at 12 where he played for the U20s and leave hastings at 10. as good as ford and simmons are i still think theyre behind sexton overall, especially since simmons hasnt played for eng yet. unfortunately sexton isn't getting a run atm without injury so i think hes 50-50 for the lions at this stage

50/50 is very generous based on form.

It’s about right based on pedigree, ability and experience.

To me Sexton and Murray are players who need to prove their form because it’s been sketchy for different reason in the last while.

Louis Friend

boetstark wrote: »

Was he successful in the ballot for tickets. All that is left for public sale is provincial games

Yes, he sourced tickets for us by applying a few times.

ersatz

You could win some money betting against the Lions tour happening on this thread. There is no chance of a Lions team going to SA this year, nor an SA team coming north. We will be very lucky if there is a 6N at this stage.

Must love hardship

Could they just postpone the lions tour to 2022, ireland etc. tours to southern hemisphere to 2023 and the rugby world cup to 2024?.

If France, who are due to host the 2024 Olympics, in Paris think they couldn't manage to hold both events in the one year, Ireland could step in to host the rugby world cup for them.

Lots of other large sporting events like Olympics and European championships have already been pushed back a year.

Lost Ormond

Must love hardship wrote: »

Could they just postpone the lions tour to 2022, ireland etc. tours to southern hemisphere to 2023 and the rugby world cup to 2024?.

If France, who are due to host the 2024 Olympics, in Paris think they couldn't manage to hold both events in the one year, Ireland could step in to host the rugby world cup for them.

Lots of other large sporting events like Olympics and European championships have already been pushed back a year.

Very hard to push all these out by a year. You also run risk of hurting your media coverage if you do move everything.
France wouldnt be happy about having both the Olympics and Rugby World Cup on in same year.
The Olympics and Euros were on this year and people thought it might have got back to normal by summer 2021. You cant just push events back another year.
If Ireland wasnt thought as being able to host a world cup a few years ago when decision was made it isnt ready now as none of the issues that arose then have been fixed/improved much.

Louis Friend

I think it’s just a decision tree.

There is no reason to move the 2023 World Cup, and as you rightly point out, the Olympics are in Paris in 2024 anyway.

Ireland, England, and Wales (plus Scotland, presumably) are due to tour in 2022 and it’s all part of World Cup preparation so they’re not going to want that disrupted.

But the Lions is a cash cow, so everyone wants it to happen at some stage.

lawrencesummers

Having the first choice players on a lions tour with a “B” team or partly B team taking the field against other Southern Hemisphere opposition would be good for us because it would give other people opportunity against top class opposition.


The problem is that NZ won’t be happy if we don’t bring out best team because it risks impacting ticket sales and competitiveness

The same goes for Eng / Sco \ Wales

Saw a good suggestion earlier to move the Lions in SA to 2025 and have the Lions instead tour either Aus or NZ and play against a 'Tri Nations' side in a three match tour.

sprucemoose

Deleted User wrote: »

Saw a good suggestion earlier to move the Lions in SA to 2025 and have the Lions instead tour either Aus or NZ and play against a 'Tri Nations' side in a three match tour.

never gonna happen on the rugby side. and a political side, i dunno how happy aus/nz would be bringing an irish & uk squad over anytime soon given the current situation here

hahashake

Depends on whether they were tested before departure/vaccinated and willing to quarantine for 2 weeks.

Louis Friend

They need the fans there too to make the economics work.

hahashake

Moved to correct thread.

Buer wrote: »

Indeed i.e. it will be a commercial decision overall.

They can push it to 2022 but there will be a massive knock on impact with respect to other tours. For example, will NZ be happy to give up a 3 match test series against Ireland?

They'll have little or no appetite (and neither would Ireland ) to have a game involving an Irish team stripped of their 5-10 best players. Similarly, Australia aren't going to want to host an England side minus 10-15 players. They have enough trouble filling their stadiums at the best of times.

A discussion for another thread anyway.

stephen_n wrote: »

The unions would not be happy with a 2022 tournament. Given the affect the lions tours usually have on form and fitness for the following 12 months. That could be seriously damaging for England and a lesser extent for Ireland and Wales.

My $0.02: There is no way SA will be able to host full stadiums in 2021. I hope I'm wrong but what I have read about their situation and vaccine rollout, it simply won't be possible. The fact most countries are still dealing with Covid 12 months on, doesn't give me a lot of hope for a place like SA.

So you have a NH-based Lions tour or SA 2022.

Boscoirl

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0130/1194080-rugby-australia-make-offer-to-host-lions-tour-report/


“The possibility of a Lions Tour taking place in 2021 has been re-ignited amid reports that Rugby Australia have stepped in and offered to host the series.

The 2021 tour was due to take place in July and August but the seriousness of the pandemic in South Africa has rendered a standard tour highly unlikely.

Alternatives mooted include a behind-closed-doors tour of South Africa or opting to stage the matches in the UK.


However, tonight, the London Times revealed that Rugby Australia chief Hamish McLennan has contacted both World Rugby and the South African union with an offer to host the tests in Australia.

"We have already staged rugby here around Covid with the precautions we took to play the Rugby Championship," McLennan told The Times. "And this weekend, after the players have finished quarantine, the Australian Open tennis starts with 30,000 people allowed in.

"There are so many ex-pats living around Australia from South Africa and the UK and Ireland that we still feel we could fill the grounds," he said.

While the offer is deemed a plausible one, it remains to be seen whether it will come to fruition.

The plan would require approval from both the Lions and the Springboks and would need to win the endorsement of broadcasters. “




Personally can’t see it happen but might be the only way to get fans at the games. Then again Perth has just gone into lockdown. I doubt any fans will be allowed travel for it if it happened.

thomond2006

I think that's the best possible option. They'll get in the TV money (or at least some of it), higher gate receipts than they would have done in SA considering the difference in currency/local economy and the global season isn't disrupted.

Must love hardship

Would love to get Rob Kearneys opinion on it.. see how match fit he felt he was after 2 weeks in quarantine. I know there was footage of some of the tennis players doing cardio but some difference in the gym work required for rugby and tennis.

The tour would basically be 2 weeks in a hotel room.

2 weeks of training and 3 test matches spread out over 2 weeks/ 3 weekends with little or no room for warm up games.
For both teams.

Would also love to get Sean O'briens opinion of the idea of being stuck in a room 24/7 with the likes of James haskell for 2 weeks.

lawrencesummers

They should charter a cruise ship and travel by sea.

Get the Australians to allow the quarantine take place on board with plenty of testing and they have gym equipment etc to stay fit while traveling.

It would make a great documentary and be a throwback to olden days.


And better yet they could collect the staffers on the way over.

Pauliedragon

One of the biggest draws of the lions is the travelling fans and the atmosphere they create and there is no way any the Aussies will be letting in travelling fans into the country this year. Rugby in Aus is skint and sounds like they are getting desperate. Even Australian citizens abroad can't get home at the moment they're so strict.

RugbyLover123

Must love hardship wrote: »

Would love to get Rob Kearneys opinion on it.. see how match fit he felt he was after 2 weeks in quarantine. I know there was footage of some of the tennis players doing cardio but some difference in the gym work required for rugby and tennis.

The tour would basically be 2 weeks in a hotel room.

Didn’t go too badly for the Argentinians.

On a side note there’s probably enough Irish alone in Sydney to fill stadiums.

The Inbetween is mine

Lions tour is dead, can't see the Saffers even considering holding it in Aus...I fear we'll hear an announcement in the fortnight to confirm as much

hahashake

SA would definitely need to quarantine if it was held in Europe this year. And imagine the fustercluck if they then had to further quarantine if there was a quarantine outbreak (i.e. uninfected people becoming infected in quarantine - with SA strain). Likewise for an incoming Lions team to Aus.

Agree that you could still have a lot of Lions supporters in Aus just from the massive expat community alone.

RugbyLover123

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Lions tour is dead, can't see the Saffers even considering holding it in Aus...I fear we'll hear an announcement in the fortnight to confirm as much

There is too much money at stake and needed for it to be called off altogether. It will happen in some format I would say.

The Inbetween is mine

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

There is too much money at stake and needed for it to be called off altogether. It will happen in some format I would say.

No money to be made here, it's a break even or slightly better tourney as there are too many fingers in the pie

Jump_In_Jack

With vaccination coming on stream now, why couldn't all the touring players be vaccinated before the tour?
Whatever about no crowds, once the players are vaccinated what's the problem with it going ahead?
Is there any reason the players wouldn't be able to get vaccinated before the summer?

Boscoirl

They are not over 60

Paul Smeenus

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

With vaccination coming on stream now, why couldn't all the touring players be vaccinated before the tour?
Whatever about no crowds, once the players are vaccinated what's the problem with it going ahead?
Is there any reason the players wouldn't be able to get vaccinated before the summer?

a) very hard to justify vaccinating sportsmen ahead of police, teachers etc, never mind health care workers
b) they might be fine, but it hasn't been proven that the vaccine actually stops you passing it on. Transmission is as much of an issue as an individual's health, if not more so

Louis Friend

There’s very little money in that. The Lions makes a truckload of cash for the local union. No fans means no cash.

sydthebeat

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/british-and-irish-lions-committed-to-staging-a-%27traditional-tour-of-south-africa%27/636327

British and Irish Lions chairman Jason Leonard says it may take until April to make a final decision on the tour to South Africa.

Leonard says the board remains committed to staging a “traditional tour of South Africa” this summer but the final decision may have to wait up to two months.

The former British and Irish Lion spoke about the tour at the relaunch of the Front Row Club, a fundraising platform for his charity The Atlas Foundation and was quoted by the Telegraph.

“It is all fluid, there could be a decision in one next week, there could be one in four, six or eight weeks’ time,” said Leonard

“There is nothing on the table at this moment in time where we are saying ‘this is what we need to do’.

“We are still working with all involved to give ourselves the best option of hopefully trying to provide a traditional Lions tour – at least as much as a traditional Lions tour as we possibly can. Obviously, it is not a traditional year so a traditional Lions tour could well be impossible to deliver."

The Inbetween is mine

The Titanic is sinking and Jason Leonard is using a colander to bail out the water

Boscoirl

“There is nothing on the table at this moment in time where we are saying ‘this is what we need to do’.

Bull****. There is zero chance of having B&I fans in SA this year. At least make a call on that so those of who have already paid for a trip can start getting our money back.

Paul Smeenus

"South Africa in shock after AstraZeneca vaccine rollout halted"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-55999678

Sheep Shagger

Nphet virologist: Lions tour to South Africa neither feasible nor safe (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/nphet-virologist-lions-tour-to-south-africa-neither-feasible-nor-safe-1.4483053

The Inbetween is mine

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Nphet virologist: Lions tour to South Africa neither feasible nor safe (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/nphet-virologist-lions-tour-to-south-africa-neither-feasible-nor-safe-1.4483053

And in other news, water is wet and grass is green..
Of course it's unsafe and the very fact it hasn't been postponed already is stupid in the extreme.

Ruggabugga101

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

And in other news, water is wet and grass is green..
Of course it's unsafe and the very fact it hasn't been postponed already is stupid in the extreme.

It's an opinion piece and not news....how anyone can think the tour can still go ahead is beyond me. Is dead for 2021 anyway.

Louis Friend

Well it’s not dead per se.

The prospect of fans being there is dead.

It’ll either be played this summer in empty stadiums or postponed until 2022.

The other options such as playing it here, in Australia, or in Japan just aren’t a runner.

The Inbetween is mine

Louis Friend wrote: »

Well it’s not dead per se.

The prospect of fans being there is dead.

It’ll either be played this summer in empty stadiums or postponed until 2022.

The other options such as playing it here, in Australia, or in Japan just aren’t a runner.

It's dead...can't be played in 2022 as the calendar is already full

LuckyLloyd

Just play the test matches.

Louis Friend

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

It's dead...can't be played in 2022 as the calendar is already full

Yes it can.

The Lions is a financial juggernaut and the Unions are all strapped for cash.

Ireland, as an example, would happily go to New Zealand with some of their frontline guys if they’re paid for the privilege.

lawrencesummers

Louis Friend wrote: »

Yes it can.

The Lions is a financial juggernaut and the Unions are all strapped for cash.

Ireland, as an example, would happily go to New Zealand with some of their frontline guys if they’re paid for the privilege.

As it stands the lions selection will have very very little impact on Ireland.

Louis Friend

lawrencesummers wrote: »

As it stands the lions selection will have very very little impact on Ireland.

Indeed.

At the moment, in terms of dead certs you’d probably only say Henshaw and Ryan.

Realistically, Healy and Furlong should go if fit. Henderson did well in 2017. If Murray and Sexton find form, maybe. Ringrose maybe. Someone like Keenan could be a bolter. Maybe Stockdale if fit and in form. Stander maybe? Van der Flier?

lawrencesummers

Beirne is Irelands only dead cert.

Pudsy33

Henshaw is absolutely nailed on

Louis Friend

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Beirne is Irelands only dead cert.

Ah come on.

Ryan is in the Test XV for most pundits and fans.

And Henshaw will travel.

lawrencesummers

Louis Friend wrote: »

Ah come on.

Ryan is in the Test XV for most pundits and fans.

And Henshaw will travel.

Maybe, but as things stand Beirne is a dead cert travel.

Ryan, henshaw, Doris, CJ, Murray all have a decent chance of making the plane once their fitness plays ball over the next few weeks.

Louis Friend

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Maybe, but as things stand Beirne is a dead cert travel.

Ryan, henshaw, Doris, CJ, Murray all have a decent chance of making the plane once their fitness plays ball over the next few weeks.

Ryan?

As in James Ryan?