Lions Tour

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696531#Comment_117696531

I'm convinced O'Keefe wanted to card Kolbe and one Lions player which obviously would have been a farce. Anyway, he didn't, so I should stop worrying about it I guess.

Dave_The_Sheep

Far, far too late a response from World Rugby.

Fiery mutant

With everything else that is going on during this series, I'm still confused how Rassie is able to enter the field as a waterboy. I thought members of management weren't allowed near the field.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697152#Comment_117697152

As long as he is not mic'd up he can enter.

Fiery mutant

Mic'd up to what. There is an image of him in the RTE website and he clearly has a mic and earpiece on.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697198#Comment_117697198

Hmm...good question. I was somewhat blindly repeating something I had read elsewhere. I guess he just can't be mic'd up while literally on the pitch.

TRC10

It's actually very sad that we're in the middle of one of the 2 biggest events on the rugby calendar and 95% of the chat is about the refereeing.

Burkie1203

I think water carriers should only be allowed on if instructed by match officials. Otherwise if you want water, head to the side line. Game is far too stop start as it is. If they come on without instructed by match official, YC the player who took a bottle.

Also think it's a pretty poor reflection on the Springboks players that they need to be coached through practically every phase of play to this degree.

aloooof

That stat…

https://twitter.com/topofthemoongw/status/1422293330797416455?s=21

TomsOnTheRoof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117697843#Comment_117697843

That's a reflection of the rugby on show. It has been beyond poor.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693498#Comment_117693498

Did you see the game?

Do you think any of the incidents discussed from the match warranted a citing? Do you think the citing officer got it correct with only one citing from the game?

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698215#Comment_117698215

Limerick are playing waterford this saturday same time as the lions.

Im not from either county and am as much a fan of hurling as Rugby, I fully expect it to be one sided game that limerick will comfortably win, but im still going to watch it over the final and deciding test of the lions tour because the rugby that is being played by both sides is drivel. Absolute and utter drivel, and sky sports will be repeating it for the next 4 years so i wont miss it anyway.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698229#Comment_117698229

I did but thats irrelevant. If the process is unfit for process then how do you change it.

Yes there was multiple incidents that deserved another viewing and CCWs at a very minimum.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698487#Comment_117698487

So we agree the process isn't working, it's hardly our responsibility to fix it or even to suggest how to fix it.

If my car is spluttering along I'll take it to a mechanic and if he asked me how should he fix it I'd hightail it out of his place and onto somewhere that actually understands and knows their business.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698229#Comment_117698229

I think people get a bit carried away giving out about a lack of citings. There may have been plenty of missed yellow card offences, but they can't be cited. What red cards were actually missed?

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698572#Comment_117698572

Id say Itoje for kneeling on DDA neck. But i don't actually know if that is a red card. It should be.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698572#Comment_117698572

I know if I answer this we're gone off in a tangent - again. Do you think the current disciplinary process if fit for purpose? I certainly don't want to get into the Rassie stuff but when a team official has to start airing stuff in public then that alone should have World Rugby sitting up and reviewing their processes.

I think two of the yellow cards (tackle on Murray and the trip) could well have been red I'm fairly sure if they were cited then very few here today would be questioning why they were cited. I also think Hogg's mouth on at least the sleeve of an opposition player needs an explanation. To leave it there without an investigation is mind blowing.

thomond2006

Having a process is one thing. Implementing it as intended is another.

swiwi_

What this series desperately needs is the lions to blow South Africa off the park with attacking rugby. There is so much wrong with this tour, which has been as dull as dishwater. I hope Gatland makes some smart selections.

Neil3030

Anyone else hearing rumours that Farrell, Murray, Watson, Hogg and Beirne are all dropped? Also Hendy starting, with Itoje moved to 6.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689127#Comment_117689127

no, the thrust of my post was about the quality of the team

The boks won the WC because and only because england put in a monster performance against NZ ( not exactly vintage themselves)

I dont think Gatland has done much with the lions to be honest, his rugby style didn't make the best use of the riches he had in the past

So is not the man do it with a lesser team this time

on defense, think the lions have been very poor there as the scoreline in the last game and the performance in the 3 disallowed tries in the first show

Scythica

15. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

14. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836

13. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824

12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland) #837

11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841

10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821

9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842

2. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829

3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818

4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825

5. Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761

6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826

7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853

8. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

Replacements:

16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851

17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787

18. *Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814 – subject to outcome of disciplinary hearing.

19. Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852

20. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849

21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790

22. Finn Russell (Racing 92, Scotland) #835

23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822

Certainly some changes there!

Former Former Former

Fair play to Gatland, not afraid to swing the axe when needed.

I think Tom Curry is the luckiest man to have kept his place, bit of a non-entity for me so far.

Clegg

Feel a bit for Henderson. Don't think he's gotten a fair shake on either Lions your despite being in good form.

Aki and Henshaw makes sense considering their familiarity with each other. We might actually try and use the backs this game and a centre partnership that's player together before is vital to that.

Owen Farrell's had a poor tour all things considered. Had a poor season for England too. Probably shouldn't have been selected.

Well.... that's a glorious team if you're Rassie Erasmus

sydthebeat

All the shouts for Faletau and he drops from the 23 altogether

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698990#Comment_117698990

it used be a joke in the wales squad with all the Jones but now its the wyn joneses, no relation

Captain_Crash

Beirne being dropped is a bit harsh especially with Curry being anonymous so far, thought he was solid when he came on in both games, and the 2nd test had gone to **** by the time he came on anyway.

bilston

Garland really doesn't fancy Irish second rows.

Have to feel for Henderson and Beirne.

The pay off for Ireland may be that it fires a rocket up their assess (particularly Henderson) ahead of next season.

I think his hands are tied with AWJ, who I believe to be a legend.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699011#Comment_117699011

I'd have thought VDM is far luckier tbh.

thomond2006

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699011#Comment_117699011

Curry was everywhere in the first test until that idiotic late hit on Faf.

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692532#Comment_117692532

Good point, understandable that someone with a head injury in the past drops like a sack of potatoes clutching his back. Maybe the head injury jumbled up his nerve connections.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698721#Comment_117698721

they need to hypnotize all the players into believing they are trying to stop england winning a grand slam

Historically all the best performances stem from this, well ok or knocking them out of world cup will do

2015 dan biggar is what we need

The good thing about rugby is how much attitude can switch from week to week

Sangre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699011#Comment_117699011

I still can't believe Gatland didn't call up Underhill who was back playing when Tipuric was pulled out. I think he would definitely be in the 23 - unlike Navidi who I think is a great player but not one for South Africa.

I wonder does Gatland regret calling up so many Sarries players who have continued their poor form for the most part other than Itoje of course.

lawrencesummers

My thinking was the first test would have been decided by a red card but it never came. And it didnt come in the second test.

Im certain now the third test will be decided by cards, and with players like Bundee and Beard it could well be a red card to one of then that swings the game.

if the lions can keep 15 on the field and keep the ball in play time high with a decent tempo they can win.

Neil3030

If Price gets quick ball to Biggar, I reckon that team can play a bit of ball.

Bundee has the dual threat of strong carrying and an offloading game. He and Henshaw know each other well. Henshaw in the wider channels is also better for both attacking and defending contestables.

I'm also not too surprised by the pack being unchanged. Beard on the bench is the right shout to then come on and help tighten things up if the Boks replacements get dominance in the second half, particularly in set piece.

Russell is also a genuine game-changer. Just hope he doesn't need to come on after 10 mins....

For the life of me I can't understand VDM retaining his place, unless the plan is to now go after Kolbe and Mapimpi on the ground with his size? Surely Watson would be just as effective...

swiwi_

The glaring problem for the lions is 10 imho. No one on the tour has the skill set or level required for what’s needed. Russell has some of it but too error-prone. I really don’t rate 2021 biggar, goalkicking aside.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699095#Comment_117699095

the officials seem determined not to give a red.

Reynal, even being a NH ref, is also very very slow to give reds. two incidents in exeter v leinster could and probably should have been reds... in this tour its unlikely they would have even been penalties.

Reynal allows murder at the breakdown. He allows flopping all over the ball and is slow to award a poacher.

very much advantage boks in my opinion.

i also find the selections quite confusing. is price there to move the ball away from contact or to kick the leather off it? the selection of adams and williams seems to suggest the latter. so why is murray on the bench? he snot a 9 you want coming on if youre chasing the game, even moreso if russell comes on as well. The selection of the reserve front row and beard suggests a very much structured "pressure, pen, maul" endgame.... but yet finnsanity is as much likely to throw a clanger against the bokke blitz defence as throw a worldy. Daly is even more illogical, but perhaps his continued selection is down to gats stubbornness at only bringing one 13 on tour. whats Daly going to do if the boks are winning in the last 20 and their game plan is to keep the ball as far away from their try line as possible? Daly is much more likely to get monstered behind the gainline than pick a hole to either arc throw or put a runner through.

Neil3030

Faf gone?

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699240#Comment_117699240

He went off injured at the end of the game on Sat and he looked in pain, that’s likely why he’s not involved

monkeybutter

the selection of adams and williams dont change the game plan, they just had to come, seeing as the back 3 couldn't even handle the simple game thats going to be played, all of the back 3 should have gone, that has been the worst part of the tour, they knew what was coming, i believe both of the Kearny borthers are still available right, gaaa skilzz

There is zero chance he is going to play rugby at this stage of his coaching career and if he was, he would have started Russell

tbm

And no Vermeulen? He'd be very short on game time though.

Absolutely monster pack with Mostert in the back row.

Neil3030

Move that heavy pack around the pitch for even a few phases and it will be penalty city for the Lions.

No Faf either is huge.

LCD and Beard to bring some grunt to match the Bomb squad (which itself isn't looking hugely intimidating).

Could be a fairly hefty win for the Lions imo.

AbusesToilets

Disappointed for Henderson. On balance, I think he would offer more than AWJ around the park, but he was never going to be dropped. I'd have had him on the bench ahead of Simmonds mind.

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699326#Comment_117699326

Completely different players and occupying different roles. If Henderson was on the bench ahead of Simmonds it would give us no back rower on the bench at all. Simmonds hasn't had a great tour but he gives the Lions something no other option does in terms of speed and carrying. If the Lions are down by 10 points with 20 minutes left, Simmonds is the back row player you want to bring on. Beard is already giving the set piece/maul option in the front five and is deservedly in the 23.

TomsOnTheRoof

After seeing that selection I'm done with the tour. Beirne has been treated very very poorly considering he was one of the standout players in the warm ups. Henderson is another who hasn't been given a chance.

I really hope this is the end of Gatland's involvement with the Lions. Regardless of results I've found the last two tours to be miserable enough affairs. His selections are routinely naff and his tactics are even worse. I might be in the minority but as far as I'm concerned he's sucked all the fun out of the Lions. I think I'll take Lawrence's advice and watch the hurling instead.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699461#Comment_117699461

It's a good debate. Are results the be all and end all for the Lions? Gatland has delivered decent results, but has the enjoyment of the Lions suffered? Is that Gatland's problem? His job is to win a series in fairness.

But I'd say 2001 was peak Lions for me even though the Lions lost the series. I suppose watching rugby in general was just much more enjoyable in those days. Maybe I'm just a grumpy 40 year old now!

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699461#Comment_117699461

one of the best players leading up to the tests, was nailed on as a starter for most people. lawes was decent in the first test (bit overhyped imo but was very good for the last 20 mins) but was one of those who went missing on sat. AWJ has offered almost nothing either tbh, although id have henderson on the bench with Beard starting instead of jones

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699175#Comment_117699175

If your winning Murray is the percect sub. if your winning Russell is a terrible idea off the bench.

if your losing Murray is a terrible sub to chase a game with, and Russell is as good a plan B as exists if your chasing a game and a test series.

swiwi_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699318#Comment_117699318

It’s the hope that gets you.