Lions Tour

awec

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

They are off their rocker.
There will be no spectators at any of those games.
No point in playing it behind closed doors.

They'll take a hit not being able to sell tickets and the wider economy won't get the boost from the incoming tourists, but I believe a big chunk of the income comes via sponsorship and then you have tv rights, so they must think they can still make it profitable.

kildare lad

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

They are off their rocker.
There will be no spectators at any of those games.
No point in playing it behind closed doors.

Didn't australia offer to host it with fans and give the gate money to south africa . It won't be much good to SA if fans can't go and pump millions into their economy.

pickarooney

This is hopefully the lowest point ever for the Lions.

Former Former Former

pickarooney wrote: »

This is hopefully the lowest point ever for the Lions.

Lower even than calling up John Hayes? Jesus.

OldRio

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Playing behind closed doors means they can meet commercial obligations though. Its a business at the end of the day and that means more than postponing in the hope supporters can be accommodated.

Unfortunately it became just a money making exercise a good few years ago.
Nothing to do with Rugby just a cash grab.

Louis Friend

Former Former Former wrote: »

Lower even than calling up John Hayes? Jesus.

Tyrone Howe says “take my coat”

The Inbetween is mine

Louis Friend wrote: »

Tyrone Howe says “take my coat”

Tom Court days "hold my beer"

dub_skav

Shane Williams says hold my headset.

Billy Ocean

GreeBo wrote: »

Is Itoje nailed on for a place?
He is on everyones list, but with 12 penalties to his name, at what point is he a liability?

Fair point, the Saracens situation and lack of match sharpness a concern too, suppose its based on alot of credit in the bank for Itoje along with necessity of physicality against the springboks.

redmca2

Louis Friend wrote: »

Tyrone Howe says “take my coat”

No offense to Tyrone Howe who was a good player but his call up was at the expense of Denis Hickie, who was a far better winger, and for that reason it was a travesty

GreeBo

Billy Ocean wrote: »

Fair point, the Saracens situation and lack of match sharpness a concern too, suppose its based on alot of credit in the bank for Itoje along with necessity of physicality against the springboks.

Especially when the lads can kick penalties from 60M...

hahashake

The 6N got much better viewing as time went on despite no crowds, mainly due to the quality gradually increasing. Hopefully we can say the same for the Lions - the SA boys will be mostly very rusty. All I hope is that the last game is not a dead rubber.

Which makes me think, presumably they will go back to the 3 game format?

Lucas44

GreeBo wrote: »

Especially when the lads can kick penalties from 60M...

Itoje is the best forward in the northern hemisphere by a long shot, a few subpar performances don’t change that. Bailed on starter at 5 or 6, will be in the leadership group of the tour

bayern

Itoje will travel.. but if he remains a pen machine he can't be guaranteed a starting spot.

The Inbetween is mine

Sports bodies is SA are petitioning the government to allow 50% crowds at upcoming sporting events over the summer.....
Could lead to up to 47,000 fans at the first Lion's test if approved

GreeBo

Lucas44 wrote: »

Itoje is the best forward in the northern hemisphere by a long shot, a few subpar performances don’t change that. Bailed on starter at 5 or 6, will be in the leadership group of the tour

He has to play pretty well to offset nearly 3 a game he averaged in the six nations!
Stick Mako in with him and thats a lot of potential points you have to make up.

I dont think anyone is arguing that he is an excellent player, but its a side of his game he needs to address. he lived on the line long enough and now is getting pinged for it, it remains to be seen if he can still produce the great performances if he is actually reffed, so far I would say the jury is still out?

sydthebeat

Lucas44 wrote: »

Itoje is the best forward in the northern hemisphere by a long shot, a few subpar performances don’t change that. Bailed on starter at 5 or 6, will be in the leadership group of the tour

i think a lot of his below par performances is down to rustiness... same as most of the sarries based players.

hes a guy who lives on the edge and is a complete pain at the breakdown

I was delighted to see him get pinged for an offside on a box kick chase down against us... but thats prime example of the rustiness in his game this season.

the one player who may find himself completely out of the english panel for giving away mindlessly stupid penalties is Jonny Hill.

Lucas44

GreeBo wrote: »

He has to play pretty well to offset nearly 3 a game he averaged in the six nations!
Stick Mako in with him and thats a lot of potential points you have to make up.

I dont think anyone is arguing that he is an excellent player, but its a side of his game he needs to address. he lived on the line long enough and now is getting pinged for it, it remains to be seen if he can still produce the great performances if he is actually reffed, so far I would say the jury is still out?

IItoje plays the ref much as the other team similarly to mccaw. Some refs are more lenient than others.: For me itoje is at a level that no other second row can get to, he shuts down teams attack almost by himself alone & terrorises scrum halves. If you were to tell me he’ll give away 3 penalties a game I’d frankly take it for what comes with it. Imo it will be awj Ryan & itoje at 6 or awj itoje with Beirne/lawes at 6

jacothelad

Lucas44 wrote: »

IItoje plays the ref much as the other team similarly to mccaw. Some refs are more liniment than others.:

Yes, you can rub them up the wrong way....:D

GreeBo

Lucas44 wrote: »

IItoje plays the ref much as the other team similarly to mccaw. Some refs are more liniment than others.: For me itoje is at a level that no other second row can get to, he shuts down teams attack almost by himself alone & terrorises scrum halves. If you were to tell me he’ll give away 3 penalties a game I’d frankly take it for what comes with it. Imo it will be awj Ryan & itoje at 6 or awj itoje with Beirne/lawes at 6

oh I agree, he is great at disrupting the breakdown, but he's no Earls either :P

Cosmo Kramer

After this weekend it seems like a lot of potential Lions won't have a lot of competitive rugby to play between now and the tour. Wonder if it will impact selection. On form the majority of the squad will likely come from Pro 14 teams but they've been poor this weekend and the likes of Munster, Edinburgh, Scarlets etc are all out of Europe.

Cookiemunster

The Saracens players will be playing in the Championship, but a few of them will still be travelling. As long as the Celtic players keep ticking over in the Rainbow Cup they'll be fine.

Cosmo Kramer

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Saracens players will be playing in the Championship, but a few of them will still be travelling. As long as the Celtic players keep ticking over in the Rainbow Cup they'll be fine.

Yes, none of it seems ideal to be honest. I'd say Gatty would have been hoping for better from the Pro14 sides this weekend. Then again, the less competitive nature of the competitions might reduce injuries ahead of the tour. And the Saffers are in the same situation so probably not a major issue.

thomond2006

That was a horror show for the Scarlets players.

Sheep Shagger

A coin collection FFS, is there anything they won't license...

https://absoluterugby.co.uk/collections/official-british-irish-lions-accessories-gifts/products/copy-of-british-irish-lions-iconic-captains-album?goal=0_2194b9e9d7-ca0d85ce94-52859845&mc_cid=ca0d85ce94&mc_eid=62b5218db0

OldRio

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

A coin collection FFS, is there anything they won't license...

https://absoluterugby.co.uk/collections/official-british-irish-lions-accessories-gifts/products/copy-of-british-irish-lions-iconic-captains-album?goal=0_2194b9e9d7-ca0d85ce94-52859845&mc_cid=ca0d85ce94&mc_eid=62b5218db0[/QUOTE

Got to keep the cash flowing.

Money
Get away
You get a good job with good pay and you're okay
Money
It's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team

The Inbetween is mine

Major withdrawals from the Lions coaching party...seems to have slipped right under the radar?
"Gatland had hoped to have Andy Farrell, the Ireland head coach, Steve Borthwick, the Leicester Tigers head coach, and Graham Rowntree, the Munster forwards coach, on his staff for the tour to South Africa" all have withdrawn

sydthebeat

Link?

The Inbetween is mine

sydthebeat wrote: »

Link?

The Times newspaper.. sorry
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-irish-lions-crisis-as-three-key-coaches-pull-out-of-tour-qm3qbs7v8

sydthebeat

Good to hear that the Irish tour seems to be going ahead and Andy is prioritising it over the lions.

I suppose with covid bubbles etc there will be a lot more than just coaches pulling out.

I wonder will gatland change tact this year and contact the players pre announcement to ensure they are willing to travel??

CatFromHue

There's usually some contact between the Lions and any potential players before the squad announced. They check are the players available and their suit size.

Cosmo Kramer

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

After this weekend it seems like a lot of potential Lions won't have a lot of competitive rugby to play between now and the tour. Wonder if it will impact selection. On form the majority of the squad will likely come from Pro 14 teams but they've been poor this weekend and the likes of Munster, Edinburgh, Scarlets etc are all out of Europe.

This could potentially be an issue again with the Rainbow cup in doubt. Obviously SA similarly affected, but potentially a benefit now to being with a team that is still in European competition like Leinster or Ulster than one that has been out for a while like Munster, Scarlets or Edinburgh.

Could run a quick round of interpros instead but something like that is unlikely to have much intensity with little of substance to play for - Leinster and Ulster will be focussed on Europe, Munster and Connacht will just be winding down really other than those aiming for a Lions jersey or a spot in the summer tour squad maybe.

RugbyLover123

Townsend and Tandy both rumoured to be involved in the management team. Can see Scottish numbers increasing if that’s the case with all 50/50 calls involving Scottish players now going there way.

The Inbetween is mine

Robin MacBryde will be the only Irish coaching connection on the Lions touring party.

Pussyhands

Any love lost for the Lions?

I don't really look forward to it as much as I did 12/16 years ago.

Southern Hemisphere teams were traditionally far far better than Northern Hemisphere teams and pooling players from 4 teams together to try and win was a leveller.

I just don't see how we get to pick to best players from 4 teams and beat a country and think of it as an achievement? The lions players know each other inside out playing each other often in the 6N and HCC and Pro14.

sydthebeat

Pussyhands wrote: »

Any love lost for the Lions?

I don't really look forward to it as much as I did 12/16 years ago.

Southern Hemisphere teams were traditionally far far better than Northern Hemisphere teams and pooling players from 4 teams together to try and win was a leveller.

I just don't see how we get to pick to best players from 4 teams and beat a country and think of it as an achievement? The lions players know each other inside out playing each other often in the 6N and HCC and Pro14.

lions record since 2000

win 1
draw 1
loss 4

if a series win is not much of an achievement, why is it so hard to obtain ?

Pussyhands

sydthebeat wrote: »

lions record since 2000

win 1
draw 1
loss 4

if a series win is not much of an achievement, why is it so hard to obtain ?

Because money.

The Lions in 2017 played 6 games in 17 days before the first test. This is on top of very long seasons with 6N and Champions Cups. Players are not robots. It's a tighter schedule than a football world cup that is not as physically demanding.

If you had Ireland or England play v the cream of NZ, SA and AUS, would you see them winning as an achievement?

Former Former Former

Pussyhands wrote: »

Because money.

The Lions in 2017 played 6 games in 17 days before the first test. This is on top of very long seasons with 6N and Champions Cups. Players are not robots. It's a tighter schedule than a football world cup that is not as physically demanding.

If you had Ireland or England play v the cream of NZ, SA and AUS, would you see them winning as an achievement?

Your middle paragraph utterly undermines your point. You've just told us exactly why it's a big ask to win a tour so you've answered your own question.

But here's the great thing about it... You don't have to watch it. You don't have to get into it. You don't have to post on social media about how you're not interested cos of how sh1t it is. Job done.

aloooof

Pussyhands wrote: »

If you had Ireland or England play v the cream of NZ, SA and AUS, would you see them winning as an achievement?

Certainly less so largely because historically, the SH teams have been superior. SH teams have won 8 RWC's while the NH only has 1.

Pussyhands

Former Former Former wrote: »

Your middle paragraph utterly undermines your point. You've just told us exactly why it's a big ask to win a tour so you've answered your own question.

But here's the great thing about it... You don't have to watch it. You don't have to get into it. You don't have to post on social media about how you're not interested cos of how sh1t it is. Job done.

It's not really a level playing field if one team has to be fatigued and carrying injuries to have a chance of a contest.

ArmaniJeanss

Pussyhands wrote: »

Because money.

The Lions in 2017 played 6 games in 17 days before the first test. This is on top of very long seasons with 6N and Champions Cups. Players are not robots. It's a tighter schedule than a football world cup that is not as physically demanding.

Very few players would play all those 6 games though. It's pretty much a given that there will be weekend players and midweek players.
You could scrap the midweek games and artificially make the schedule look easier, but I doubt anyone wants that. A midweek game for the lesser lights in a provincial ground is part of the charm.

And the comparison with soccer world cup schedule - The teams drawn in the groups last to commence (usually group G & H) will generally play 6 games in 21/22 days if they reach the semi-final. But crucially many of the players will have played all 6 games, so it's not really that easier a schedule.

joseywhales

As much as I want to see Irish players achieve lions caps, for their own careers, I am probably happier if I see less going, since there is bound to be covid incidents on a tour like that in south africa in the middle of covid. Even if they manage through it, it's going to be a stressfull time.

The Inbetween is mine

Could be a few players going who are at their careers end.. CJ .. Toner maybe? Could be a few more in the UK who could take 6-8 spots.... players who their sides don't need back for the seasons start.

redmca2

I understand Gatland will select his squad shortly.
It's a pity that the only "Lions eligible" club still playing in the Champions Cup won't get 1 more chance to show the merits of Kelleher, Keenan, VDF (especially) and many others

Buer

redmca2 wrote: »

I understand Gatland will select his squad shortly.
It's a pity that the only "Lions eligible" club still playing in the Champions Cup won't get 1 more chance to show the merits of Kelleher, Keenan, VDF (especially) and many others

The squad isn't being selected until after the semi finals of the Champions Cup.

redmca2

Buer wrote: »

The squad isn't being selected until after the semi finals of the Champions Cup.

Delighted to be corrected !!

sydthebeat

All players being considered will be receiving letters around now, notifying them to be ready should they be selected

damianmcr

sydthebeat wrote: »

All players being considered will be receiving letters around now, notifying them to be ready should they be selected

I didnt know this was a thing.

redmca2

Buer wrote: »

The squad isn't being selected until after the semi finals of the Champions Cup.

Delighted to be corrected !!

Cookiemunster

damianmcr wrote: »

I didnt know this was a thing.

AFAIK the 'possibles' also usually get measured for suits around the same time they're told they're on the long list. Although I don't know how that would work this time.