Non relationship with mother all life, looks like she'll die soon, unsure how to feel

LegacyUser

This may go into personal depth, I guess I'm in the right forum.
Love anonymity here.

My mother comes from a difficult background and has had emotional issues her entire life.
She was a great mother in the practical sense. All kids educated, athletic, interested, always supportive in the practical sense.
Those things, I have zero complaints.

Not saying life was a breeze but, the opportunities I had growing up and frankly how they continue to support me; in perspective of others opportunities, in my mind, that made me privileged.

She herself however came from a somewhat broken home with a half sister who tortured her emotionally, as I understand it.
Just an ugly situation.

Result being, she always carried this emotionally unstable state around her entire life.
She was assertive when she needed to be which is good, strong, she never took sh1t.
But being a family member, I could always see her instability and unhappiness.

As a toddler/kid she basically had me latch onto her hugely, to the point where I'd break down in tears of anxiety when she was gone from the house to long.
Looking back, I knew she just wanted that level of intimate contact with another human being because, her emotional state meant she could basically trick a toddler into having that with her, but she couldn't connect with another human being that way.

Result was my transition into adulthood as a sh1t scared kid was not the easiest, but ultimately like I said I had every opportunity to take the reigns and guide my own vessel, so after not to long I got things on track and that was cool.

....

However, she seemed to resent the fact I "abandoned" her, which was basically me stopping being a child and becoming a man.
Since then, my overly attached relationship with her as a child, turned into caustic malice in adolescents and non-contact as an adult.

I realized to become a normal person, I'd have to simply disconnect her instability from my life.

Since then she's always been terribly miserable and unhappy, threatening suicide, looks beaten down, weathered, just a terribly unhappy person.

Misery loves company and, unfortunately even now when I try to stay in touch, conversation descends into snide remarks and disparagement, that horrible persona and bringing me down (she can say these subtle things which instantly degrade, it's remarkable) seems to be the only thing that makes her feel better about herself.
As a result, I've had to cut her off almost entirely, including blocking her phone numbers (cause she can get crazy sometimes, calling in the middle of the night etc).

I still visit from time to time, more to check up on them (parents are still together).
Cause if there was anything I could do to help them in anyway, something I could provide, someone who needed talking to on their behalf, I would do it, no questions asked.
But unfortunately this cannot involve emotional support of just being there for them, as my mother is just too caustic to get involved with personally.


Most recently she's become ill and requires treatment after treatment.

I don't know how to feel about.
I honestly think she's lost most or any joy at being alive, and personally believe she actually wants to die.
I don't want her to have a drawn out death however.

And my own man, where'd he be without his companion?

It's just a funny situation cause, as a kid with that over-attachment I used to cry thinking anything would happen to the mother I was so attached to.
And now as a mature adult, I mean, I wish she would have a long life, full of good health and happiness, but that seems unlikely now.

Flimsy_Boat

I had the exact same relationship with my mother: overly attached as a teen and no contact as an adult. She was supportive of me and I also feel lucky. But the minute I turned 19 and went to college, she resented my independence. She was later hospitalised and diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Emotional instability and feelings of abandonment are characteristic of this disorder. Interpersonal relationships are very difficult and suicidality is common too. Maybe if you read up on this condition you will gain an understanding of why she treats you this way and why it isn't anything to do with you. Unfortunately, without your mother undergoing intensive therapy, things are unlikely to change ( in the case of Borderline personality disorder it is a therapy called DBT, or dialectical behavioural therapy).

Best of luck and feel free to ask any questions.

sunshinew

This is an incredibly confusing and emotional time for you. I went through something similar and was estranged from my father for 20 years, found out he was terminally ill and those few weeks before he died were torture.

It opens a can of worms of reflection, wishing things had been different and it's a very different sense of loss, anger, sadness, relief all rolled into one. I was split down the middle between anger and resentment towards him, and guilt and sympathy and sadness. I find unless somebody has a similar dysfunctional relationship with a parent they can't relate. They see things through rose tinted glasses and you get the comments around "making peace before it's too late" and they look at you like you are some horrifically cold person to not rush to their besides etc. So choose carefully who you confide in.

In my case, I was put under pressure to see him before he died and the experience will be forever etched in my memory. My "rose-tinted" friends thought it would give a sense of closure or forgiveness etc but he was the same man on his death bed as he had been during my life so there was no great revelation, more confirmation that the estrangement had been the right choice for me. However, I probably gave him some comfort (I hope i did as i felt so sorry for him and how his life turned out) and I got closure in a different way. I don't regret going - equally i would have no judgement for anybody not going (my sibling didn't go).

I went to counselling for the week before and the few weeks after he died. I would recommend it. There is no one size fits all in this situation. Be kind to yourself OP. It's a very difficult time for you. People dismiss your situation if they know you weren't close - however your mother has had a huge impact on your life and who you are- it stirs up a huge amounts of feelings.

LegacyUser

This resonates hugely with me. I think my mother has an undiagnosed personality disorder as well, probably BPD, and the instability of mood is constant, even now when she is older.

Our house growing up was hell'ish, she could flip any minute and she did, dark clouds descended, no matter where we were, no thought to consequences, what she said or how it effected anyone, how she hurt or upset people by her comments, she would verbally abuse my father, say humiliating things to him in front of us and how they stayed together until he passed away is a mystery, probably because he loved us kids and financially it would have been a disaster. Back then where could he go, and he was sick in the later years. When I was a kid my father once said that Mum feared abandonment, so he knew well something was off and probably what the issue was, but how the hell was I gonna process that information as a child.

Despite it all, she provided for us, she did work hard and her income supported the family for sure. Us kids (I have 6 siblings) did ok, all college educated, work hard and doing well in our jobs. On that level there can be no issue. She had and still has her strong points.

But the emotional baggage and issues from the emotional instability are still here to this day in spades.

Most of my siblings are totally enmeshed with her even now all grown adults, if she is in bad form it’s like they are thrown off centre, just like when we were kids. They can’t cope unless all is well between them and mother. Real crazy mother/adult-child family enmeshment stuff. Everyone running around like co-dependent zombies appeasing her. And if you cant meet her constant demands and intrusions (including into our relationships/marriages), daily phone calls and visits trying to complain about everything (including other siblings, their partners, how grandkids are being raised, and pretty much everything that's making her unhappy) she could just let loose with abuse and then your stuck with dealing with that. I now just see all of these requests as constant tests of our attention and loyalty to her, rather than a mum needing a bit of help - which in and of itself would be fine.

Other issues around substance abuse and difficulty in forming lasting relationships (particular my 4 brothers), competition between siblings (i.e. who'se mums favourite this month aka who is giving mum most attention lately) and so much more. ITS EXHAUSTING!!

I am presently trying to deal with the enmeshment and the constant demands and intrusions (I have a job, husband and kids), which ramp up when she feels that her control at/as the centre of my life is slipping. I'm sick of being the emotional soother, the surrogate spouse, the sponge to her constant complaining and venom like what my father endured. I’m trying to get to a point where I am not so emotionally triggered by my mother and her bile.

I don’t have an answer, OP, other than to repeat what someone said to me years ago: you didn’t cause it, you cant control it and you cant cure it. I sensed an element of grief (grief is sometimes called guilt) in your post, I can relate to that as well - we didn't get the relationship with mum that we needed. Thinking that in the long run, for my own mental health and my own family and marriage, low contact with her is the only option.

I don’t think you did anything wrong in your approach and probably did the best you could for your own sanity. Its sad, but its also life I'm afraid.

LegacyUser

Well, I'm certainly glad to hear others experiences on this.

Sometimes on the outside, of course as a society we're obligated to keep the "sunny side out", "not air our dirty laundry in public" etc.

So without the anonymity of internet it can be difficult to discuss these details.

Not to mention, in person, people got their own problems, don't necessarily need the burden of someone else's.


Funny thing about this situation is I almost feel my mother anticipated and safeguarded against her own nature.
As in given her own family history she wanted to ensure her children didn't descend into that also, thus all the opportunity I was given and always encouraged to "become my own man".

It sounds contradictory to what I've said in OP (resentment at leaving etc), and it is.

It was contradictory when it was happening.

As in I'd be receiving encouragement to get out there and become my own person, and at the same time I'd be receiving criticism for leaving them behind.

And I understand that.

Bitter sweet, as a collective institution in a sense, my folks took the self compromising route in favor of their children's benefit.

And as a kid I was BY FAR my moms favorite, so when I bailed it naturally made the biggest impact.

But what it comes down to is, having taken advantage of all the opportunity I was given and decisions they made to my betterment, my moms is still effectively going to die alone, unable to communicate with her favorite child.

It's just sad.

I'm sorry about this situation.

Having examined the variables, as the poster above me pointed out, I believe I took every last measure to yield in a sense, the best possible outcome.

It's far from perfect, but considering the emotional damage she embodied, history of instability, horrible emotional backgrounds with alcohol and substance abuse etc having run in the family for generations, things could be a damn sight worse.


To be honest it felt like an issue cascading from one generation to the next to the next, that instability, like it's written in the gene code.

And reality of my having broken that cycle now is that, for intents and purposes it's like I'm from a different culture and we simply can't relate to one another.

And for all her efforts as a mother she's gonna die without the child she invested so much into (but also to be fair, unloaded so much on), really even having exchanged one pleasant, non-grief stricken, non-ugly-demeaning conversation with.

And it seems that's just how it's got to be.

I always thought somehow she find her own peace and happiness, especially with myself establishing my own independence, like it would have been a weight off her mind and she could just release the concern over her children, their well being and carry on with her own life.

But it seems what she wanted was to have a part on my life in particular, which given her intractable resentment and for intents and purpose, how my very presence seems to grind her gears to the point she has to degrade me, is just not possible.

irishblessing

"Sometimes on the outside, of course as a society we're obligated to keep the "sunny side out", "not air our dirty laundry in public" etc."

That statement above really resonated with me. It's so outdated and old fashioned, harmful thinking. I think this is what we need to normalise in society. That it's okay to talk about our struggles. It's okay to talk about our mental health. It's okay to speak up about abuse even when it comes from family (physical abuse is not the only type that leaves scars). I have learned that speaking up and out is good for everyone. It's good for the person to unburden themselves and find support in healing. As long as you temper certain reactions or "advice" by considering the source (someone lacking empathy & direct experience, for ex). And when we tell our stories, not only do we find healing but it often becomes a guide and a balm for others who are suffering.

Some of us grieve living parents too. It is always on them to find their own healing and do the work but we can't make them. So we have to put in the healthy boundaries. We didn't get the love and relationship we deserved and needed and that takes a lot of processing your feelings and time to work through.

It is a super sad reality isn't it; take your time to feel and process all your emotions and through multiple outlets. Talking, therapy, journaling, meditation, exercise... whatever feels right to you. Well done breaking the cycle and being healthier for your family. That's extremely important and often so hard to do. You're on the right track!

LegacyUser

irishblessing wrote: »

"Sometimes on the outside, of course as a society we're obligated to keep the "sunny side out", "not air our dirty laundry in public" etc."

That statement above really resonated with me. It's so outdated and old fashioned, harmful thinking. I think this is what we need to normalise in society. That it's okay to talk about our struggles. It's okay to talk about our mental health. It's okay to speak up about abuse even when it comes from family (physical abuse is not the only type that leaves scars). I have learned that speaking up and out is good for everyone. It's good for the person to unburden themselves and find support in healing. As long as you temper certain reactions or "advice" by considering the source (someone lacking empathy & direct experience, for ex). And when we tell our stories, not only do we find healing but it often becomes a guide and a balm for others who are suffering.

I agree however, really on matters like this I'd only entrust confiding to someone with a non-judgemental level of professionalism, an actual professional.... or anonymously on an internet forum.

Historically my experience is that often confiding personal matters can be used against oneself when done in social circles.

So I agree, but perhaps back in the day before technological revolution, we could have confided in sage old neighbors etc.
For me anonymous internet works is my preferred route currently.

Some of us grieve living parents too. It is always on them to find their own healing and do the work but we can't make them. So we have to put in the healthy boundaries. We didn't get the love and relationship we deserved and needed and that takes a lot of processing your feelings and time to work through.

Like with a junkie sometimes, "I can't help you pal, you got to help yourself".

In many ways I feel like if I went out of my way to try and offer emotional comfort, not only would I leave myself exposed to emotional torture, but I'd be enabling someone who really does need to and can only help themselves ultimately.

Funny thing is in terms of "love we deserved", I never really had complaints with that.
I mean it can be a nasty and cruel world. I was supported every step of the way in every sense really to establish my own strength and the bizarre thing is, in some ways I feel lucky cause being forced into a position to establish that independence (which SUCKED along the way, cause the learning curve can be cruel), I think long term it makes life much better in some ways.
In that I didn't fall into conventional routines that I may not be as happy in.

Took the road less traveled, per se.

But of course the fact remains that, as per topic, I still have a miserable unhappy parent who is going to die that way.

It would be trivial to say that's the only "fly in the ointment". But it's pretty devastating to see a loved one suffering so.

It is a super sad reality isn't it; take your time to feel and process all your emotions and through multiple outlets. Talking, therapy, journaling, meditation, exercise... whatever feels right to you. Well done breaking the cycle and being healthier for your family. That's extremely important and often so hard to do. You're on the right track!

Actually years ago but before I moved overseas at one point, I did actually speak to a therapist who seemed to assure me that, despite the difficulty of ditching a parent, she had seen far worse results when children stuck around for their parents out of loyalty and ultimately adapted their regressive traits.

Not full Norma Vs Norman Bates but, despite the apparent cruelty of ditching an old unhappy person, she seemed to emphatically insinuate it was the way forward and reassured me I had done and was doing the right thing.

In spite of that, that horrid ringing in my head, "ungrateful son".

I mean, if I had the strength of character to tolerate the emotional undermining, the subtle insults, the conversations that would leave a black cloud over my head for days, if I had whatever fantastical qualities that would allow me to do that, I would do it.

That's one kind of knee-jerk piece of rational that occurs to me.

But the idea of someone one person having the ability to intervene say, in the habits of a drug addict and just unburden them of their own internal destructiveness,
It's nice to think that's possible, but experience has left me to conclude nothing other than, all you can do with these people is help then in small ways wherever one can, but keep a healthy distance cause getting in too close can not only validate their own self destruction, but be destructive to the person that only wants to help as well.


Anyways, again it's sad that I just have to stand back and watch a loved one effectively drown before your eyes, knowing there's nothing I can really do to help as they thrash about and cry for help.

Rationally I know I took and am taking the right course but, it still sucks.

Dan133269

Hi CityMouse, first of all I understand this is a terribly difficult and emotionally confusing time for you and I hope you're managing to get through it. As suneshinew said above, unless someone has gone through something like this it's impossible for them to understand.

I've seen a similar situation first hand, and as another poster said above, it sounds to me as well like your mother likely has Borderline Personality Disorder. You seem to have identified the issues quite well - her having you latch on to her as a child and then resent you becoming independent is very much consistent with BPD. You also say that her sister tortured her emotionally, again not surprising. At least partly as a result of this, she probably tortured herself emotionally and those closest to her, such as her children.

When someone's parent has BPD, the type of experiences you're subjected to make it highly likely the children will end up with severely irrational and self-destructive behaviours, often resulting in substance abuse, again as you mentioned yourself. Those who manage to break the cycle of behaviour understand from a young age that having minimal contact is the solution. The problem with this of course is that it means the mother's worst fear comes true, i.e. feeling that they've been abandoned.

It's only my experience of seeing someone in this situation but I saw quite clearly that the person with BPD understood that they were inflicting terrible damage on those closest to them, and for whatever reason they were simply unable to stop. I know this sounds like a cop-out and weak excuse to try and justify someone's terrible actions, but it's a conclusion I reached after a lot of reflection and was a conclusion that I didn't actually want to reach because it made things more difficult to accept. So the person with BPD is unable to stop the destructive behaviour, but separately to this, they are capable of doing some quite positive things that push the children in a positive direction. The result can be crippling and confusing for the child, resulting in mixed emotions, but ultimately it seems to be the best the parent can manage. The end result – depending on the choice and hard work of the child – is that the inter-generational cycle is broken which is the case here. You also need to look at it from that point of view, you have managed to break the cycle which has been passed down through god knows how many generations, and thanks to the sacrifices of yourself, your children won’t have to go through the same thing.

The end result from the mother's point of view is that they feel they did their best (in spite of some of the horrible things that were done) and their best still wasn’t good enough to keep their children close to them. Hence, regret and anger aimed at the children who were “ungrateful” to understand the effort and sacrifices the mother put in to allow the children to begin the process of breaking the cycle.

The point that was made about dragging people back when they start to get away - this is entirely understandable. I think it's linked to the broader "Irish begrudgery" as well. The point is that once you start to climb out of the pit of this inter-generational trauma, the gulf between those who are still down there and you gets wider, and so they try to drag you back down to their level. They feel on some level that it's only fair that you should all suffer together.

Another point about BPD which is important to acknowledge is that usually the person has experienced trauma at a young age, often child sexual abuse. I'm not saying this is likely the case here but it is a common thing with people with BPD. It seems to be that a child has some biological predisposition and that combined with trauma and the absence of an emotionally supportive figure at that young age results in the person getting the condition. The person I saw with BPD often behaved exactly like a child, wild temper tantrums etc but instead of it being carried out by a child, it was of course carried out by an adult and the consequences are much more permanent. I've only read up a little bit about BPD but it seems that in one way the person with it is still trapped in that childish pattern of behaviour and can't break free. In my case when I understood that the person with BPD had these things in past (all of which were kept entirely hidden of course), I saw them and their situation differently, understanding that they were suffering deeply and carrying this wellspring of pain with them all their lives.

You said “I mean, if I had the strength of character to tolerate the emotional undermining, the subtle insults, the conversations that would leave a black cloud over my head for days, if I had whatever fantastical qualities that would allow me to do that, I would do it.” It seems impossible to try and find any peace with your mother, I see that. But my advice to you would be that it's possible to try and find some peace without having to fix all these issues or even going into the bad things from the past. If you can somehow get across to her that she has helped you in many ways despite her flaws, and now you are on the right path, and part of that is thanks to her - then I think that is exactly what she will want to hear and will bring her some peace.

It doesn’t have to be a big dramatic “I love you and forgive you” moment like a film, but just a simple thing like doing a small nice gesture, maybe getting her a thoughtful present, and then chatting and trying to steer your conversation towards the good times – “remember we went to x place years ago and this happened”. Then look towards the future and say something like “I think when I have children, I will read those same books/stories to them that you read to me.”

I know I've rambled a bit there but I hope this makes some sense and you can take something from it, CityMouse. This kind of situation is probably the most difficult emotionally that I've ever seen and that's why trying to fix it is so hard. We're talking about the mother-child instinct which evolution has refined over millions of years and when something like this goes wrong, it's terribly complicated.

I saw the comedian Des Bishop on the Late Late Show a few months ago and he was talking about something similar. He said his mother was a "formidable woman" and when question that that meant, he said she bet the **** out of him and his brothers. He said the very last thing she said on her deathbed were the words "sorry, sorry" and no one in the family knew what she was talking about, they all presumed it was because she was dying and the morphine and she didn't know what was happening. But Des Bishop said he interpreted that as his mother feeling guilt as a result of how she treated her children. Very sad, but also somewhat comforting to know that her story ended on a note of reconciliation.

Anyway CityMouse, I wish you all the best.
Dan.

Psychiatric Patrick

CityMouse.

Could the fact you are feeling this way mean you really want you and your mother to be at peace with each other now?

Maybe talk to her about you feel or even just say things are not good between but that you just want to spend time together and make her happy.

I've had a great relationship with my mother my whole life. I've had mental heath issues which was hard on her and people told her she was too soft on me but she is th only reason I'm still ticking and was able to get help and move abroad.

Then she needed me so I came back. Now that other siblings stopped finally stopped denying the problems and stepping up they've begun treating me so bad that somedays are a misery and I feel like running off.

So my advice is just do your best to get some happiness between you both both for the time left. You'll bad if you don't, you'll feel good if you do.