Parental rights during covid

Moonriver99

Hi, so i married but separated from husband both irish. He is living in london amd im currently living at home. We have a 22 month old.

This year has been hard because of covid and him coming home to see her. He hasnt seen her since the lockdown began.

My issue is coming home soon (her birthday) . I know he is to self isolate for two weeks before he can go about the country. He also says he cannot take three weeks off work in order to do that.

Now, i have asked him to take two weeks off at least and isolate for a week at least and i knowthats not quite right but im not sure what else to do. But now he is saying he can only come home for a few days and will see her at a distance.

Firstly im mad because i feel he should be making a huge effort to see his daughter for a longer period but according to him, he has little holidays but i dont believe this as sure he hasnt been anywhere this last year due to covid. He has been made take a few days off alright cos he cant carry them over until next year. Im not being difficult. But him coming over for four or five days wont cut it especially because of guidelines due to covid. Its been months since hes been here. Obviously not his fault but hes always put his job first and i think with everything thats happened due to the pandemic, he should be acquiring time to see his daughter.

Am i unreasonable or how do i sort it?
Before the pandemic he wouldnt be home that often but she would see him when she could. I just feel their bond is important and she knows who he is.

Dravokivich

Just because he hasn't gone anywhere doesn't mean he hasn't taken a significant amount of days off. I don't think that's the real issue though, he's using it to bargain with you. He needs to think about more than himself. You aren't being unreasonable to reference the isolation requirements in place.

Shelli2

I'd honestly tell him not to bother if he's not going to isolate for the 14 days. The UK is rife and I wouldn't let my child mix with someone not willing to to do what's needed to keep them safe.
Seeing a 22 month old at a distance is unfair, the child won't understand and will either be upset or it'll be pointless.

I'm in the same position but my son is much older luckily and so he understands why his dad can't come over from the UK. He hasn't seen him this year and just calls or Skypes.

Moonriver99

Thanks guys. Ive already pulled her out of creche due to rising covid cases locally. He thinks i worry too much. I call it being a parent. He hasnt gone on holidays anywhere but think hes been forced to take some of them. To be honest his work always does come first but i guess im trying to persuade him this time will never come again

Moonriver99

Thanks guys. Ive already pulled her out of creche due to rising covid cases locally. He thinks i worry too much. I call it being a parent. He hasnt gone on holidays anywhere but think hes been forced to take some of them. To be honest his work always does come first but i guess im trying to persuade him this time will never come again. He accuses me of saying he ia diseased etc but its not that, we all know we have to isolate. Ive done the whole lockdown not meeting peoplw but he is meeting others over there, probably not many but still. Thanks for replies. I guess i worry about him legally coming after me.

TheBoyConor

How could he legally come after you though? You are the woman and it is he who should be worried about you coming after him!

Shelli2

I'm sure even if he went the legal route he'll just he told that he has to isolate according to restrictions and then he's welcome to see his child, which is exactly what you want.

maxsmum

Am I the only one who thinks rules can be stretched when it comes to access? It's so important for a child to see their parents. I have friends working in the UK back at weekends, they couldn't go without seeing their kids.
I'm ready for some backlash here but if it was my child I wouldn't stop access, as long as there weren't any older or vulnerable people in my household.

bee06

maxsmum wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks rules can be stretched when it comes to access? It's so important for a child to see their parents. I have friends working in the UK back at weekends, they couldn't go without seeing their kids.
I'm ready for some backlash here but if it was my child I wouldn't stop access, as long as there weren't any older or vulnerable people in my household.

But that’s the problem. If everyone thinks they can stretch the rules because of their “special” circumstances we’re screwed.

maxsmum

bee06 wrote: »

But that’s the problem. If everyone thinks they can stretch the rules because of their “special” circumstances we’re screwed.

Not everyone. I mean weddings have been exempted from the new rules. They are special circumstances. I'm not in the OPs position but I would imagine overseas parents aren't very common. Just my two cents.

bee06

maxsmum wrote: »

Not everyone. I mean weddings have been exempted from the new rules. They are special circumstances. I'm not in the OPs position but I would imagine overseas parents aren't very common. Just my two cents.

Weddings/mass have been exempted based on NPHETs assessment of how cases are spreading. We don’t get to make up our own exceptions.

Unknownability

So if he goes from England to Northern Ireland and then down, that won't be an issue as there is no need to quarantine.

jrosen

I understand your concern but he is also in a difficult situation and he doesnt have the luxury of living with his child.
Would you consider some compromise. Perhaps if he isolates the 2 weeks before he travels. So at the very least he reduces his interactions pre travel. Suggest he get the ferry? Might be easier to keep social distance on there than a plane.

Or maybe you could travel to the UK? Do you have annual leave to take? You could travel with her and isolate once there for 2 weeks and then he wouldnt have too?

Pawwed Rig

Unknownability wrote: »

So if he goes from England to Northern Ireland and then down, that won't be an issue as there is no need to quarantine.

You would need to quarantine in that scenario

Unknownability

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

You would need to quarantine in that scenario

Why?

Pawwed Rig

Unknownability wrote: »

Why?

Because Britain is not on the green list so if you travel from there you need to isolate.
Only countries on the green list are exempted from this.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/returning_to_ireland/returning_to_Ireland_and_covid.html

SusieBlue

When we were in full lockdown at the height of the surge parents were still allowed to travel any distance around the country in order to honour their custody & access agreements and see their children.

I fully understand your concerns but at the same time, where does it end?
This situation isn’t going anywhere and it’s already been almost six months since he’s seen his child.
If he doesn’t have the annual leave available now, that isn’t going to change by the end of the year (presuming his work calendar goes from January - January).
Does that mean he doesn’t see his daughter again until 2021?
Because I do think that’s unreasonable.

As well as that many employers forced annual leave on their staff during lockdown to avoid a situation where all staff had 20+ days left to take between September and Christmas, which they wouldn’t be able to accommodate. So he could well be telling the truth about not having enough holidays to take 3 weeks off.

Unless you plan to keep your daughter away from him indefinitely you’re going to have to compromise in some way.

I second the suggestion of asking him to isolate for two weeks before he travels.
Ask that he shower and change his clothes when he arrives before coming to see the child to avoid any further potential contamination too.

I think if you are reasonable and compromise it will stand to you.
I just don’t think requesting he take 3 weeks of annual leave when he wants to see his child is going to work going forward. That will mean he’ll have to use all his annual leave on a maximum of 2 visits per year.

I have spoken to a local TD about this as a friend is in a similar situation and apparently guidelines will be released soon as access and custody are a special circumstance and must be accommodated.

Oranage2

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

You would need to quarantine in that scenario

There's no quarantine, you are only asked to restrict your movement.

Though the guideline says:

-do not visit others

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b4020-travelling-to-ireland-from-a-country-that-is-not-on-the-covid-19-travel-advice-list/

It's up to op, if you don't want the father to see his child for safety reasons then show him the government guidelines.

Though it if you think it's necessary you could let them meet with masks and socially distance by 2 meters if you think that's possible.

bee06

bee06 wrote: »

But that’s the problem. If everyone thinks they can stretch the rules because of their “special” circumstances we’re screwed.

The irony is that Ireland has higher cases per head of population than the UK right now, by previous criteria UK should be on the green list now with no quarantine at all coming here.

My daughter lives in London and came home for 7 days recently , she couldn’t stay longer due to her job, she came home as her other sister had just arrived home from Vancouver and was self quarantine with me for 14 days. They hadn’t met for 2 years and were not putting it off any longer ,

A colleague at work has 2 daughters who are in UK and both have retuned home for a week to visit, if they hadn’t and if my daughter hadn’t then it would be 8 months at this stage I hadn’t seen her . Sorry but life has to be lived in my opinion and this Covid could go on for years!!


You need to be flexible and work out some kind of compromise with your daughters Dad. You really need to put your daughter first here, I’ve been down this road years ago and my girls have had a very good relationship with their dad despite the breakdown of our marriage.

Think ahead, think to future like 18th,21st, weddings, grandchildren , there are so many life events that your daughter will want her dad to be part of her life, try and compromise now to make trips happen if at all possible and keep a relationship with her Dad. It really matters as life goes on, you don’t know what’s ahead.

P.s. at lot of companies (including my job) limited annual leave or changed leave terms due to different work practices due to Covid.

Unknownability

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Because Britain is not on the green list so if you travel from there you need to isolate.
Only countries on the green list are exempted from this.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/returning_to_ireland/returning_to_Ireland_and_covid.html

You haven't read your own link.

"The only people who do not need to restrict their movements are:

People arriving from Northern Ireland"

Dravokivich

Unknownability wrote: »

You haven't read your own link.

"The only people who do not need to restrict their movements are:

People arriving from Northern Ireland"

But in your scenario they didn't arrive from Northern Ireland, they just traveled through it.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

How could he legally come after you though? You are the woman and it is he who should be worried about you coming after him!

Access is in the interest of the child. Not either parent.

Unknownability

Dravokivich wrote: »

But in your scenario they didn't arrive from Northern Ireland, they just traveled through it.

They've arrived into Ireland from Northern Ireland. It's a loophole the government are aware of that they haven't bothered to address.

Anyway that's off topic.

Moonriver99

Hi guys, ye make some good points. And actually if i didnt live with my vunerable parent who is older, has COPD and diabetes, id probably have a different view. I absolutely want him to have a relationship with our daughter but i think in some way he has to isolate and ensure our safety. I myself have an immune problem which i get every few years so id be worried about that too.

I guess all im essentially asking him to do is come home for at least two weeks. Isolate for one so we can have some sort of isolation in place. His plan is to just come for a week, travel through northern ireland and escape the 14 day rule but he isnt taking into account my family who are vunerable and i have a few of them one as well with CF. Look i know this virus isnt going away and anyone can have it but i want some level of protection. I know him, Hes just going to turn up, do what he wants and use the fact that id feel guilty not allowing him see her. I feel at a loss because i know he will make me look bad. His parents are much older too. This is all because he cares more about his job than protecting us and that makes me upset. He knows he has a daughter who he hasnt seen in months and should at best trying to save some holidays and working on a plan that helps us all.

I get on good with his parents and call them and im half wondering should i in some way see what their view is on it. He listens to them, not me at all.

Timberrrrrrrr

Moonriver99 wrote: »

Hi, so i married but separated from husband both irish. He is living in london amd im currently living at home. We have a 22 month old.

This year has been hard because of covid and him coming home to see her. He hasnt seen her since the lockdown began.

My issue is coming home soon (her birthday) . I know he is to self isolate for two weeks before he can go about the country. He also says he cannot take three weeks off work in order to do that.

Now, i have asked him to take two weeks off at least and isolate for a week at least and i knowthats not quite right but im not sure what else to do. But now he is saying he can only come home for a few days and will see her at a distance.

Firstly im mad because i feel he should be making a huge effort to see his daughter for a longer period but according to him, he has little holidays but i dont believe this as sure he hasnt been anywhere this last year due to covid. He has been made take a few days off alright cos he cant carry them over until next year. Im not being difficult. But him coming over for four or five days wont cut it especially because of guidelines due to covid. Its been months since hes been here. Obviously not his fault but hes always put his job first and i think with everything thats happened due to the pandemic, he should be acquiring time to see his daughter.

Am i unreasonable or how do i sort it?
Before the pandemic he wouldnt be home that often but she would see him when she could. I just feel their bond is important and she knows who he is.

Just on the bolded part, the rules in the UK have changed in relation to leave and you can now carry days over into the next two years

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rules-on-carrying-over-annual-leave-to-be-relaxed-to-support-key-industries-during-covid-19

The regulations will allow up to 4 weeks of unused leave to be carried into the next 2 leave years, easing the requirements on business to ensure that workers take statutory amount of annual leave in any one year.

Captain Flaps

The number of people in here excusing quarantine dodging or trying to make cases for exceptions is exactly the type of person who's going to end up sending us back to phase one. Being a parent does not excuse you from isolating if you're coming from a country like the UK, you are not special and many people have sacrificed a lot more than you. Man alive.

Unknownability wrote: »

They've arrived into Ireland from Northern Ireland. It's a loophole the government are aware of that they haven't bothered to address.

Anyway that's off topic.

It's not a loophole. If you've travelled to any non green list country in the last 2 weeks you're supposed to isolate for 14 days. Arriving in through NI might mean not being checked but you're still breaking the spirit of the law, if not the letter.

Pawwed Rig

Unknownability wrote: »

You haven't read your own link.

"The only people who do not need to restrict their movements are:

People arriving from Northern Ireland"

He is arriving from England.

I am not getting into the issues of 7 day, 14 day quarantine, or none at all. That is something OP will have to work out, and indeed every single one of us as this goes on. Life has to go on along with Covid. It has been catagorically proven that travel is NOT causing Covid. Groups congregating whether at work or socially are causing the latest spikes. There will always be spikes now.

In my case my 6 month pregnant daughter returned home from Vancouver, along with her 14 month toddler and husband, to live here again in Ireland. If they had missed that window and things close down they would be stuck in Vancouver, with No 2 due she is so relieved they got back. They isolated for 14 days. My other daughter from London visited for 7 days and nobody went outside the door. That was 3 weeks ago, quarantine has passed and we are all well and healthy. Life goes on and people individually have to make that decision about travelling. Neither of my daughters got a phone call even though they filled out the contact tracing form at the airport.

Reading this thread I do think the OP has issues with her ex that are coming across - issues that are nothing to do with the current situation but are probably unresolved things relating to the break up. Again I would say, been there done that.

Mentioning " he will make me look bad" and "this is all because he cares more about his job more than us" kinda point to other issues. Very few people care more about their job than their kids, but maybe his job has been demanding and he needs to climb the corporate ladder/ work longer hours to pay the bills, there is pressure involved with this. Hard to see the other person's side of the story too , particularly if communication is not good and he works in the UK.........when communication, blame, unresolved issues are not dealt with, everything else becomes harder to work out, including access during Covid.

Its not easy, best of luck with it OP, hope you can reach a compromise.

deeperlearning

Unknownability wrote: »

They've arrived into Ireland from Northern Ireland. It's a loophole the government are aware of that they haven't bothered to address.

Anyway that's off topic.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

He arrives from Britain via Northern Ireland.

SusieBlue

Moonriver99 wrote: »

Hi guys, ye make some good points. And actually if i didnt live with my vunerable parent who is older, has COPD and diabetes, id probably have a different view. I absolutely want him to have a relationship with our daughter but i think in some way he has to isolate and ensure our safety. I myself have an immune problem which i get every few years so id be worried about that too.

I guess all im essentially asking him to do is come home for at least two weeks. Isolate for one so we can have some sort of isolation in place. His plan is to just come for a week, travel through northern ireland and escape the 14 day rule but he isnt taking into account my family who are vunerable and i have a few of them one as well with CF. Look i know this virus isnt going away and anyone can have it but i want some level of protection. I know him, Hes just going to turn up, do what he wants and use the fact that id feel guilty not allowing him see her. I feel at a loss because i know he will make me look bad. His parents are much older too. This is all because he cares more about his job than protecting us and that makes me upset. He knows he has a daughter who he hasnt seen in months and should at best trying to save some holidays and working on a plan that helps us all.

I get on good with his parents and call them and im half wondering should i in some way see what their view is on it. He listens to them, not me at all.

I think your concerns are valid and relevant, especially seeing as your parents have underlying conditions but you will have to come up with some sort of plan going forward to accommodate this because he can’t just not see his child any more because of coronavirus.

Because even if you refuse to allow him see her for her birthday he is going to want to see his child at some point this year and you can’t blame the man for that.
Taking 3 weeks off each time he comes over just isn’t practical, no one has that much annual leave to play around with.

Would you consider meeting him outside the home with the child in the fresh air so he can see her?
There is very little risk of transmission in outdoor spaces, particularly when distance is kept. You could go to the park or something?

I just think it’s quite unfair that some are trying to paint him as some sort of reckless monster, child access is a special circumstance and I guarantee most wouldn’t be so blasé about it if they hadn’t seen their young child in over 6 months with no end date in sight.

Moonriver99

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I am not getting into the issues of 7 day, 14 day quarantine, or none at all. That is something OP will have to work out, and indeed every single one of us as this goes on. Life has to go on along with Covid. It has been catagorically proven that travel is NOT causing Covid. Groups congregating whether at work or socially are causing the latest spikes. There will always be spikes now.

In my case my 6 month pregnant daughter returned home from Vancouver, along with her 14 month toddler and husband, to live here again in Ireland. If they had missed that window and things close down they would be stuck in Vancouver, with No 2 due she is so relieved they got back. They isolated for 14 days. My other daughter from London visited for 7 days and nobody went outside the door. That was 3 weeks ago, quarantine has passed and we are all well and healthy. Life goes on and people individually have to make that decision about travelling. Neither of my daughters got a phone call even though they filled out the contact tracing form at the airport.

Reading this thread I do think the OP has issues with her ex that are coming across - issues that are nothing to do with the current situation but are probably unresolved things relating to the break up. Again I would say, been there done that.

Mentioning " he will make me look bad" and "this is all because he cares more about his job more than us" kinda point to other issues. Very few people care more about their job than their kids, but maybe his job has been demanding and he needs to climb the corporate ladder/ work longer hours to pay the bills, there is pressure involved with this. Hard to see the other person's side of the story too , particularly if communication is not good and he works in the UK.........when communication, blame, unresolved issues are not dealt with, everything else becomes harder to work out, including access during Covid.

Its not easy, best of luck with it OP, hope you can reach a compromise.

I get your point but actually it feels like you are saying im not communicating in some way. Im pretty clear and straightforward with him on what i want and need(in relation to my daughter) and to add he has never been the one to communicate. Jeepers im on boards. Ie looking for help on what i should do lol. this situation also actually isnt straightforward and i thought here i could see how others compromised. Perhaps me mentioning a few of my thoughts on his character isnt quite necessary but this im juat saying hes not willing to isolate, going against guidelines, not caring for my vunerable just to make things easier for himself. Id like to add he is well aware he has a daughter, he knows he needs time with her but there is nothing ever discussed with me over the past few months on how we can do it despite my attempts at it.

combat14

Moonriver99 wrote: »

Hi, so i married but separated from husband both irish. He is living in london amd im currently living at home. We have a 22 month old.

This year has been hard because of covid and him coming home to see her. He hasnt seen her since the lockdown began.

My issue is coming home soon (her birthday) . I know he is to self isolate for two weeks before he can go about the country. He also says he cannot take three weeks off work in order to do that.

Now, i have asked him to take two weeks off at least and isolate for a week at least and i knowthats not quite right but im not sure what else to do. But now he is saying he can only come home for a few days and will see her at a distance.

Firstly im mad because i feel he should be making a huge effort to see his daughter for a longer period but according to him, he has little holidays but i dont believe this as sure he hasnt been anywhere this last year due to covid. He has been made take a few days off alright cos he cant carry them over until next year. Im not being difficult. But him coming over for four or five days wont cut it especially because of guidelines due to covid. Its been months since hes been here. Obviously not his fault but hes always put his job first and i think with everything thats happened due to the pandemic, he should be acquiring time to see his daughter.

Am i unreasonable or how do i sort it?
Before the pandemic he wouldnt be home that often but she would see him when she could. I just feel their bond is important and she knows who he is.

Why cant you go to the UK for a month or two so your daughter can see her dad?

Most people if they are lucky get 4 weeks holidays in the entire year ... this year has been exceedingly difficult.. what if your ex lost his job and was unable to continue paying child support ... then there would be something additional to whinge about

I'm sure your ex is doing his best cut him some slack for a change!

just a different perspective but I'm probably wrong lol