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Rental Agreement

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  • 19-08-2020 1:41pm
    #1
    mickbetty9
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭


    Hi,

    Currently looking to move out of rented apartment due to noise from supermarket deliveries at 3.30/ 4 am in the morning.

    We have received a contract from the landlord but never actually signed the contract due to this above reason.

    Are we liable for any unpaid rent or not receiving our deposit if we leave during rent period?
    due to the fact we have not signed the contact?

    The landlord has us registered with the RTB. Thanks


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    #2
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I assume you are there <6 months?


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    #3
    mickbetty9
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭mickbetty9


    Since January 2020.


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    #4
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    You're bound by the notice periods set out in the Residential Tenancies Act (as amended I think). 35 days IIRC.


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    #5
    mickbetty9
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭mickbetty9


    I have no problem giving adequate notice. What I want to know is can the LL hold me to pay rent / withhold deposit with no contract in place? I'm going to try help find new tenant as the LL is ok.


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    #6
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    mickbetty9 wrote: »
    I have no problem giving adequate notice. What I want to know is can the LL hold me to pay rent / withhold deposit with no contract in place? I'm going to try help find new tenant as the LL is ok.

    My lay opinion is that you are only bound by the notice periods set out in the RTA as no fixed term lease exists because it wasn't accepted by both parties.


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    #7
    silent_spark
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭silent_spark


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    My lay opinion is that you are only bound by the notice periods set out in the RTA as no fixed term lease exists because it wasn't accepted by both parties.

    I don’t think it matters whether or not a contract was signed. The OP was furnished with the details of a rental contract, continued to live there and paid rent at the agreed rate. Is there not assumed agreement?


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    #8
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    Contract doesn’t have to be in writing. The fact that you moved in and paid rent you satisfied all the terms of the contract under contract law. If it’s a fixed 12 month contract as a lot of lease agreements start as such you are liable for the remaining months.
    Why do you think you should not pay? You need to give proper notice and pay up to the 35 day notice period. Deposit can not be used in lieu of notice.


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    #9
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    silent_spark wrote: »
    I don’t think it matters whether or not a contract was signed. The OP was furnished with the details of a rental contract, continued to live there and paid rent at the agreed rate. Is there not assumed agreement?

    This.

    Where there is no contract in place then you are bound by the legislation. Give the notice, move out and get on with life.

    Your landlord can not charge you for rent after the notice period expires.


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    #10
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    If the landlord wants to hold you to the 12 months all you have to do is request to sublet or assign the lease and when they refuse that essentially nullifies the contract and you just give your notice.

    For tenants a fixed term tenancy can be ended if:
    the landlord has refused to allow you to sublet the tenancy. In this case, you must give notice depending on how long you have lived in the property.
    If the landlord has refused a request by you for assignment of the lease.


    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-fixed-term-tenancy

    Your notice period is 35 days

    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/notice-periods-that-a-landlord-should-give


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    #11
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    silent_spark wrote: »
    I don’t think it matters whether or not a contract was signed. The OP was furnished with the details of a rental contract, continued to live there and paid rent at the agreed rate. Is there not assumed agreement?

    I'd say no. The tenants have refused to sign the agreement for a specific reason as outlined in the OP. Therefore one cannot assume a 'meeting of minds'. I'm open to correction and the type of contact acceptance you outline is possible - just not here IMHO.


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    #12
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Baby01032012 wrote: »
    Contract doesn’t have to be in writing. The fact that you moved in and paid rent you satisfied all the terms of the contract under contract law. If it’s a fixed 12 month contract as a lot of lease agreements start as such you are liable for the remaining months.
    Why do you think you should not pay? You need to give proper notice and pay up to the 35 day notice period. Deposit can not be used in lieu of notice.

    Landlord has a duty to mitigate his/her loss, even in this climate the place is unlikely to sit empty for the remainder of the lease period.


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    #13
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Elyse Miniature Bassist wrote: »
    If the landlord wants to hold you to the 12 months all you have to do is request to sublet or assign the lease and when they refuse that essentially nullifies the contract and you just give your notice.

    For tenants a fixed term tenancy can be ended if:
    the landlord has refused to allow you to sublet the tenancy. In this case, you must give notice depending on how long you have lived in the property.
    If the landlord has refused a request by you for assignment of the lease.


    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-fixed-term-tenancy

    Your notice period is 35 days

    https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/notice-periods-that-a-landlord-should-give

    Given the current climate, a LL might be quite happy for a tenant to assign the lease. Of course the tenant has to find someone to assign it to.


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    #14
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Given the current climate, a LL might be quite happy for a tenant to assign the lease. Of course the tenant has to find someone to assign it to.

    That's why I suggested to Mickbetty9 to request to sublet, not many landlords are keen on that option whatever the climate.


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    #15
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Elyse Miniature Bassist wrote: »
    That's why I suggested to Mickbetty9 to request to sublet, not many landlords are keen on that option whatever the climate.

    As long as the LL gets paid, they might be happy for continuity, in a sublet, the op would have to continue paying the LL and would be liable for any rent arrears if the new tenant stopped paying the op. You could give it a shot, but if the LL agrees, what does the op do then?


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    #16
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    If the landlord agrees then the OP sublets it to anyone they want, the landlord has no input.


    Then at a certain point the new person can request to be put on the lease, if denied, there is a possibility of referring a case to the RTB.


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    #17
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Elyse Miniature Bassist wrote: »
    If the landlord agrees then the OP sublets it to anyone they want, the landlord has no input.


    Then at a certain point the new person can request to be put on the lease, if denied, there is a possibility of referring a case to the RTB.

    The op wants out of the lease, not to effectively become the LL by subletting to another tenant.


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    #18
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The op wants out of the lease, not to effectively become the LL by subletting to another tenant.

    The OP wants out of the lease because of noise, he never said he didn’t want to sublet. The OP actually states he will help the landlord find a new tenant.

    If the landlord wants a choice in the new ‘tenant’ then they should refuse to sublet or assign.

    The way out of a fixed term lease is via subletting or assignment for tenants.

    One route makes the tenant the landlord and no landlord wants a tenant picking the tenants.

    This mechanism built into legislation is a major Trump card for the tenant.


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    #19
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Elyse Miniature Bassist wrote: »
    The OP wants out of the lease because of noise, he never said he didn’t want to sublet. The OP actually states he will help the landlord find a new tenant.

    If the landlord wants a choice in the new ‘tenant’ then they should refuse to sublet or assign.

    The way out of a fixed term lease is via subletting or assignment for tenants.

    One route makes the tenant the landlord and no landlord wants a tenant picking the tenants.

    This mechanism built into legislation is a major Trump card for the tenant.

    But if the LL agrees, which at the moment he/she might, it is not a way out unless the op actually has someone to assign/sublet to.

    In a sublet situation, the op remains responsible for payment of rent to the property owner, that is hugely risky. If the sub tenant stops paying the op, the op is still liable for the rent.

    I think you are over complicating this, I suspect the op wants out of the apartment completely, not to become a LL to a sub tenant.


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    #20
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    The only one over complicating it is you by not reading what the OP is stating and putting words in their mouth.

    OP give your 35 days notice if the landlord insists on the remainder of the alleged 12 month fixed term lease, email or write to them with the person you have chosen to sub-let/assign the lease to.

    Remember you chose the tenant but in the case of an RAS or HAP tenant the landlord will still have to fill out the form.


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