Virgin 1Gb now available.

schmoo2k

xboxdad wrote: »

I'm on 500Mbit and Virgin never worked for me well without modem mode + decent router. Is it going to get worse with 1Gbit Virgin you reckon?

If your already in modem mode, then the stability will be the same and the download speed will be faster when the servers support it (sorry for stating the obvious) - realistically how frustrated do you get with the 500 maxed out?

If you don't mind locking in for a full year, it may work out cheaper as a new customer?

xboxdad

schmoo2k wrote: »

If your already in modem mode, then the stability will be the same and the download speed will be faster when the servers support it (sorry for stating the obvious) - realistically how frustrated do you get with the 500 maxed out?

If you don't mind locking in for a full year, it may work out cheaper as a new customer?

I don't mind you stating the obvious as I'm very confused as to why everyone says to stay away from 1Gbit Virgin. I'm on 500Mbit and as far as I can tell, the weakness is in the WiFi part, not in the actual internet connection. So when ppl say someone told them to stay away from 1Gbit Virgin, I think maybe it's maxing out the technology in a way that it shouldn't - making the actual internet connectivity (not talking about WiFi) worse than it was on 500Mbit that did not overdrive the technology.
If that's not the case, it'll work for me.


I'm more frustrated with the 50Mbit upload speed than the 500Mbit download speed and I - wrongly - assumed it'd double at the very least with 1Gbit.
In any case, I'll keep paying the same money for 1Gbit as I'm paying for 500Mbit, so it seems like a no brainer in my case. (I do have SIRO here, but I won't switch over - they lied about a couple of things when they sold it to me so I cancelled - also I don't want more holes on the house...)

TheDoc

xboxdad wrote: »

Do you mean that their 1Gbit is worse than their 500Mbit?

You can see the feedback here. And plenty of evidence elsewhere. The 1gig just isn’t performing well. Seems their infra just saturated. Launched too early.

schmoo2k

xboxdad wrote: »

I don't mind you stating the obvious as I'm very confused as to why everyone says to stay away from 1Gbit Virgin. I'm on 500Mbit and as far as I can tell, the weakness is in the WiFi part, not in the actual internet connection. So when ppl say someone told them to stay away from 1Gbit Virgin, I think maybe it's maxing out the technology in a way that it shouldn't - making the actual internet connectivity (not talking about WiFi) worse than it was on 500Mbit that did not overdrive the technology.
If that's not the case, it'll work for me.


I'm more frustrated with the 50Mbit upload speed than the 500Mbit download speed and I - wrongly - assumed it'd double at the very least with 1Gbit.
In any case, I'll keep paying the same money for 1Gbit as I'm paying for 500Mbit, so it seems like a no brainer in my case. (I do have SIRO here, but I won't switch over - they lied about a couple of things when they sold it to me so I cancelled - also I don't want more holes on the house...)

IMO It is not just the WiFi, but rather the software / hardware implementation simply appears to get swamped relatively easily, causing dropped packages and inaccessible admin page etc.

The final straw for me, was when rebooting it would revert to the UPC defaults which meant the ID/PW on the box didn't even work (something it only seemed to do if under load at the time of reboot - disconnecting cables worked around the issue)!

Like I say, now I am back in modem mode all is good.

xboxdad

schmoo2k wrote: »

IMO It is not just the WiFi, but rather the software / hardware implementation simply appears to get swamped relatively easily, causing dropped packages and inaccessible admin page etc.

The final straw for me, was when rebooting it would revert to the UPC defaults which meant the ID/PW on the box didn't even work (something it only seemed to do if under load at the time of reboot - disconnecting cables worked around the issue)!

Like I say, now I am back in modem mode all is good.

Ok, thank you. I'm using modem mode too as 500Mbit was also very problematic until I started using it like this. So I'm hopeful that 1Gbit will be fine for me.

LeeroyJ.

xboxdad wrote: »

Ok, thank you. I'm using modem mode too as 500Mbit was also very problematic until I started using it like this. So I'm hopeful that 1Gbit will be fine for me.

Using it in modem mode with a Google nest router and have no issues. All my entertainment systems are wired with cat6 cables (TV, series X, PS4/5, switch) and speed is reliably between 800-900. Only issue i have is that some Websites keep telling me there is suspicious activity on my IP. No idea what that's about

LoGiE

As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm in modem mode, and the connection is rock solid. The supplied VM Hub is not up to the job if used in router mode in my opinion and the poor upload speed is an apparent oversight, but I'm happy with the connection and do not regret upgrading. When my contract is up, I'll look at the providers that can offer the same speeds.

I don't have any hard data on the success of VM's 1Gb product. Suppose anyone here had some stats or technical info from a reliable source on the uptake or capacity problems etc. I'd like to see it. You can find threads discussing poor performance for most of the large ISP's because there are a lot of variables. I'd wager that the majority are not because of the speeds delivered to the house but rather the equipment used, the construction of the home, or wireless interference from neighbouring wifi networks.

ED E

LoGiE wrote: »

As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm in modem mode, and the connection is rock solid.

It can be solid, isnt always. The SoC is still underpowered and can be caused to crash.

CoBo55

ED E wrote: »

It can be solid, isnt always. The SoC is still underpowered and can be caused to crash.

What's SoC?

degsie

CoBo55 wrote: »

What's SoC?

System on a Chip. Processing unit + other functions.

CoBo55

degsie wrote: »

System on a Chip. Processing unit + other functions.

Processor, thanks.

LoGiE

ED E wrote: »

It can be solid, isnt always. The SoC is still underpowered and can be caused to crash.

Yep, there's problems reported with the puma chipsets the last few years but I haven't had any issues that I'm aware off. No issues web browsing, Nest cams, Zoom, torrents, Netflix, casual gaming, downloads etc. The vast majority of virgins residential customers use routers using Puma 6/7 chipsets at this point. Neither of us have data on the actual number of customers experiencing issues because of these chipsets. Have you experienced a problem with their router in modem mode you think is down to Puma bugs?

xboxdad

My Hub4 should arrive tomorrow (no 360 TV box) and I'm wondering:

• Is this a splitter (on the photo) that I already have in this Virgin box?
• If it is, it's for my current 500MBit connection. Will I get a new splitter in the 1Gbit package tomorrow?
• If I get a new splitter, do I keep both in the "circuit" or I need to get rid of the original one and build in the new one?
• If I don't get a new splitter, do I just keep the one I already have or I need to get rid of it before connecting the Hub4?

Thank you.



PXL_20201116_171302010.jpg

PXL_20201116_171157117.jpg

LoGiE

Looks like you have the VM branded wall box so it's fairly recent. Just plug the Coax cable from the back of the old hub into the new hub.

GalwayGaillimh

Got the Virgin 1Tb 2 weeks ago
The speed is great but....
I get daily dropouts on it no idea why maybe once or
twice a day a proper pain having to reboot router and login to vpn for work etc.
Is this similar to the issues people are having with the Gigabyte broadband?
The 500 Meg seemed very stable compared to it..

ED E

LoGiE wrote: »

Have you experienced a problem with their router in modem mode you think is down to Puma bugs?

Yep. I've got certain bits running at 4AM so when they semi-regularly drop us the household is asleep.


You can download 10x 1TB files over HTTP and pin util at 100% for days and it won't drop but lots of lower usage TCP connections and it totally ****s the bed. The proof of concept scripts cause it to soft lock at about 5Mbps.


It doesnt impact the majority of users Im sure but if you're going to sell a 1G package then expect power users to sub to the service. They'll notice.


A good example is let steam download unlimited (240Mb package) and watch latency (external to your router) spike to circa 400ms.

The Steam client downloads a game in “chunks” using multiple parallel TCP sessions to a selection of the servers in the user’s cell. In our testing we found that the Steam client used six parallel TCP sessions. Using multiple parallel connections to multiple CDNs is a good way of working around congested paths between a user’s ISP and any one specific CDN.

Old article, I suspect its quite a few more now.

schmoo2k

ED E wrote: »

You can download 10x 1TB files over HTTP and pin util at 100% for days and it won't drop but lots of lower usage TCP connections and it totally ****s the bed. The proof of concept scripts cause it to soft lock at about 5Mbps.

This is exactly what I observed!

LoGiE

Ok, so you're using the 1Gb package too. Can you post a link to the scripts you're using? I'd like to give this a go myself. The information available is very mixed. Some users in the UK reporting that a firmware rolled out last year fixed the issue and others saying it's still an issue for them. VM Community Thread

I'm transferring a lot of data using TCP rather then HTTP (Torrents , VPN, Steam etc) and can't say I've had latency or drops affecting Zoom, gaming or Nest cams. If I can identify something I'd definitely engage with VM to either resolve or cancel my contract.

GalwayGaillimh

Was onto virgin about my connection daily dropouts
Yesterday evening and he said to reset router and it would
Do a firmware update...
I reset the router but didn't see any green flashing on it to show it was doing a software update.
That said I've had no connection drop out today
Was getting a dropout once or twice a day since I got the 1 gig 2 weeks ago...

ED E

LoGiE wrote: »

I'm transferring a lot of data using TCP rather then HTTP (Torrents , VPN, Steam etc) and can't say I've had latency or drops affecting Zoom, gaming or Nest cams. If I can identify something I'd definitely engage with VM to either resolve or cancel my contract.

If you're not having issues with authentic use I dont know why youd start disputing it over synthetic use that doesnt impact you.

They cant solve it, they used the PUMA6, it was torn to shreds by the industry, then they went ahead and used a PUMA7 system which is similarly weak. Thats all they offer in RoI.

LoGiE

ED E wrote: »

If you're not having issues with authentic use I dont know why youd start disputing it over synthetic use that doesnt impact you.

They cant solve it, they used the PUMA6, it was torn to shreds by the industry, then they went ahead and used a PUMA7 system which is similarly weak. Thats all they offer in RoI.

Yep... understand all that. You've said you're having a problem, I haven't noticed one and would like to see if I am in fact experiencing an issue unbeknownst to me. This may be something that impacts me in the future.

If you can't help, fine. Maybe another user has a definitive way to test for this issue. VM claims to have fixed this with firmware if that's untrue I'd like to know this when I'm out of contract in a few months time.

ED E

LoGiE wrote: »

If you can't help, fine. Maybe another user has a definitive way to test for this issue. VM claims to have fixed this with firmware if that's untrue I'd like to know this when I'm out of contract in a few months time.

They say "fix", everyone else says mitigate or mask. The prior latency spikes are massively reduced but its in no way fixed.

https://github.com/nallar/Puma6Fail

HUB3 is PUMA6, HUB4(New model) is PUMA7 and may be slightly better but still junk.

LeeroyJ.

What chip does the v2 router use?

schmoo2k

LoGiE wrote: »

Ok, so you're using the 1Gb package too. Can you post a link to the scripts you're using? I'd like to give this a go myself. The information available is very mixed. Some users in the UK reporting that a firmware rolled out last year fixed the issue and others saying it's still an issue for them. VM Community Thread

I'm transferring a lot of data using TCP rather then HTTP (Torrents , VPN, Steam etc) and can't say I've had latency or drops affecting Zoom, gaming or Nest cams. If I can identify something I'd definitely engage with VM to either resolve or cancel my contract.

Kick off 50 popular torrents at a single time while the kids are trying to game and stream!

quokula

I've just had this installed today and sounds like I have similar problems to those described. Got it installed this morning, it worked great for about an hour then stopped working. I restarted the modem, it worked fine for another 4 or 5 hours then stopped working again until I restarted it again.

What is "modem mode"? Does it just mean turning off the wifi? I'm already connecting everything wirelessly to a TPLink Deco Mesh router, which has a base station connected to the Virgin Media router by ethernet cable. The modem is next to the tv and has the playstation and xbox connected directly to it by cable too though. Does modem mode mean they can't connect directly? The Deco doesn't have any free ethernet ports to connect to it by any means other than wirelessly.

quokula

Hmm I looked at the instructional video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq7Q8mkG2wY

And that modem mode button just doesn't exist for me. The rest of the admin UI looks identical, but without that button

LeeroyJ.

quokula wrote: »

Hmm I looked at the instructional video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq7Q8mkG2wY

And that modem mode button just doesn't exist for me. The rest of the admin UI looks identical, but without that button

Modem mode mean you connect your own router to it which handles the majority of the workload, make sure you have a good router you want to use before activating it
. To activate the setting you need to get into virgin via chat or phone and tell them you want to switch to IPV4. They will instruct you to reboot and wait 24 hours and the setting will be there. In my case it took 2 hrs to show

quokula

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

Modem mode mean you connect your own router to it which handles the majority of the workload, make sure you have a good router you want to use before activating it
. To activate the setting you need to get into virgin via chat or phone and tell them you want to switch to IPV4. They will instruct you to reboot and wait 24 hours and the setting will be there. In my case it took 2 hrs to show

So I've read through many pages of this thread now (wish I had done before getting it installed...)

Am I right in saying that if I get them to switch me to IPV4, and I switch to modem mode and use my own router, then the service should run pretty well then?

Or is it better to cancel the whole thing while I'm still within 14 days and going to someone like Digiweb? I have siro here, in fact we've just switched from 1GB with Sky to Virgin due to various problems we had with a broken Sky Q box and terrible customer service. The broadband through siro was fine with Sky, but we'll need some solution for TV - Virgin don't seem to give you the option of TV only. I assumed switching from Sky 1GB to Virgin 1GB would have been fairly seamless.

allanroche

quokula wrote: »

So I've read through many pages of this thread now (wish I had done before getting it installed...)

Am I right in saying that if I get them to switch me to IPV4, and I switch to modem mode and use my own router, then the service should run pretty well then?

Or is it better to cancel the whole thing while I'm still within 14 days and going to someone like Digiweb? I have siro here, in fact we've just switched from 1GB with Sky to Virgin due to various problems we had with a broken Sky Q box and terrible customer service. The broadband through siro was fine with Sky, but we'll need some solution for TV - Virgin don't seem to give you the option of TV only. I assumed switching from Sky 1GB to Virgin 1GB would have been fairly seamless.

I would run for the hills if you have the opportunity.

LeeroyJ.

quokula wrote: »

So I've read through many pages of this thread now (wish I had done before getting it installed...)

Am I right in saying that if I get them to switch me to IPV4, and I switch to modem mode and use my own router, then the service should run pretty well then?

Or is it better to cancel the whole thing while I'm still within 14 days and going to someone like Digiweb? I have siro here, in fact we've just switched from 1GB with Sky to Virgin due to various problems we had with a broken Sky Q box and terrible customer service. The broadband through siro was fine with Sky, but we'll need some solution for TV - Virgin don't seem to give you the option of TV only. I assumed switching from Sky 1GB to Virgin 1GB would have been fairly seamless.

Hard to say from an external view. Personally I was close to switching until I hooked up my Google nest router, since then I've had very few issues and everything runs smooth. Without i had constant lags, drops and smart devices disconnecting

LoGiE

Moving to your own equipment and using the Hub in Modem mode seems to resolve a lot of issues for people using the service. It's been years since I've used VM supplied kit as a router and wifi access point. The supplied stuff is total crap in my opinion.

If you're already using SIRO you're going to take an upload hit too. Virgin's upload speeds are 50Mbps. So might be worth considering another provider if you're still in the cooling-off period. The TV from VM will be far better then what's provided by Eir or Vodafone if that's also something that's important to you.

quokula

Well my first attempt at resolving it hasn't gone well. I contacted support this morning, they switched me to IPV4 and said I'd need to press the reset button on the modem for ten seconds to see the changes and be able to switch to modem mode.

I did the reset just now at lunch time, and now the internet isn't working at all and when I go to 192.168.0.1 I get the Virgin Home Hub welcome page where I pick my language then enter the password, but it says the password that is written on the router is incorrect - I know it's the correct one because, aside from triple checking it, Chrome remembered it from last time I logged in and it was correct then.

I've reset it a few times, switched it on and off a few times, no luck. Back onto support this afternoon I guess

allanroche

quokula wrote: »

Well my first attempt at resolving it hasn't gone well. I contacted support this morning, they switched me to IPV4 and said I'd need to press the reset button on the modem for ten seconds to see the changes and be able to switch to modem mode.

I did the reset just now at lunch time, and now the internet isn't working at all and when I go to 192.168.0.1 I get the Virgin Home Hub welcome page where I pick my language then enter the password, but it says the password that is written on the router is incorrect - I know it's the correct one because, aside from triple checking it, Chrome remembered it from last time I logged in and it was correct then.

I've reset it a few times, switched it on and off a few times, no luck. Back onto support this afternoon I guess

Is the splash screen blue by chance? If you reset sometimes it will switch to UPC which looks identical. Try reset the hub again until the login screen is red and all should work fine.

Hurrache

Does it need a reset of just a power boot? I had mine reset too, internet dropped for a short bit, I have an IPv4 address but no Bridge option yet, but I did read it can take a couple of hours to appear.

allanroche

It can take an actual reset, long press the hidden reset button for 30secs or until the lights flicker.

schmoo2k

allanroche wrote: »

Is the splash screen blue by chance? If you reset sometimes it will switch to UPC which looks identical. Try reset the hub again until the login screen is red and all should work fine.

Look at the Welcome screen carefully - is there a UPC logo at the top?
If so unplug all cables and then do the hard reset again, wait for 5 mins, connect cables and then try logging in.

Hurrache

I'll give that a try later so.

It's pretty irritating setting this all up when you've no devices anymore that come with ethernet ports.

quokula

Mine came back and is working again after another reset - I think I might not have been holding it in long enough the previous time. I didn't notice if there was a UPC logo anywhere when it wasn't working, but the screen was very much covered in Virgin branding and was orange and white.

Hurrache

Bridge Mode pops up on the left of your main menu now?

deravarra

Has anyone else had issues cancelling the 1 Gig and reverting to their original package?
I cancelled through a phonecall, and about 2-3 weeks after what was supposedly a successful cancellation, I got notice that the new modem was to be delivered.
I managed to get through to them again, and they apologised for the mistake on their part. I asked them to confirm that I could revert to the original package, and they said I could. I got a message from the courier the next day to say the delivery was cancelled.
Now, almost 2 months later, I got billed for the 1 Gb service.

Do they have to put in extra effort to be this incompetent?

quokula

So after a few hiccups they got me switched over to IPV4 and I switched the hub to modem mode. About 30 minutes later I lost internet and had to reset the modem again, which made me think it may have fixed nothing.

But it's been two days since then, and there have been no more issues. I'm going to keep an eye on it, if it's solid for the next week I'll stick with it, any more issues and I'll see about cancelling.

The speed is good when it's working, for download at least. I got 920Mbps down in a speed test, along with 50Mbps up.

FrankGrimes

I'm currently on VM 240Mb Limitless broadband and Horizon TV Max. I use a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite and Unifi Access Points around the house - these are great and generally solid vs the previous dire wifi of the VM gear (mysterious 5Ghz interference issues in recent weeks aside).

We hate the Horizon TV with a passion and were looking at going with the 360 TV.Currently out of contract and would be open to committing to contract of 12mths if I knew broadband would be solid and TV would be an improvement.

But reading this thread has me worried - 4th kid just arrived and I don't have the hours I once did to drain on investigating networking issues, I need something that just works. Is 1Gb where the technology infrastructure transitions to the new (and by the sounds of this thread, not quite ready) network? i.e. if I go for 500Mb will that be more likely to be solid?

S.E.A.L.s

FrankGrimes wrote: »

I'm currently on VM 240Mb Limitless broadband and Horizon TV Max. I use a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite and Unifi Access Points around the house - these are great and generally solid vs the previous dire wifi of the VM gear (mysterious 5Ghz interference issues in recent weeks aside).

We hate the Horizon TV with a passion and were looking at going with the 360 TV.Currently out of contract and would be open to committing to contract of 12mths if I knew broadband would be solid and TV would be an improvement.

But reading this thread has me worried - 4th kid just arrived and I don't have the hours I once did to drain on investigating networking issues, I need something that just works. Is 1Gb where the technology infrastructure transitions to the new (and by the sounds of this thread, not quite ready) network? i.e. if I go for 500Mb will that be more likely to be solid?

Fellow parent of multiple animals, worked from home years in IT and have heavy usage requirements as well as on a 3rd party router in bridged mode from the Hub (IPv4) because who relies on default ISP equipment alone...

Anyway, we've been on the 500 service since inception and it's been rock solid in our area about 97% of the time as per monitoring

Also, while we don't have the TV package, everyone we know and family who had Horizon TV hated it as well, so, anything else is better

(it's worth mentioning we hate the f***ing price hikes and jig that Chorus NTL/Liberty Global-UPC/Virgin Media seem to do more frequently than other ISP's, as if we're privileged to be allowed a reliable, stable and fast service, so, should embrace the latest and greatest, but we've decided to remain on the middle tier for the time being)

bk

I've a theory (no proof) on why the 1gig service could face reliability problems.

So the 1gig service uses DOCSIS 3.1, while the lower services * use DOCSIS 3.0.

The .1 difference might not sound much, but it is actually a massive upgrade over 3.0. Calling it 3.1 was a marketing move, it really should have been 4.0 or even DOCSIS Next gen, the changes are so significant.

At 3.1 they are handling more channels, a lot more data, high QAM and OFDM. All of these can lead to far greater processing requirements, which if you now pair with an underpowered Puma processor could potentially lead to poorer reliability and issues versus the old 3.0 services.

Basically if you try and do more with an underpowered processor, you can be in for a bad time.

All just a theory on my part, but I thought worth thinking about.

* BTW I'm not sure if the 500 service is on D3.0 or D3.1. I think it is D3.0, but some 500 users have gotten the new D3.1 modems. Also eventually I'd say they will move everyone including folks on the 250/500 service to newer D3.1 modems. In order to take the full advantage of the bandwidth of D3.1, you need to transition everyone over to it.

I really hope they resolve their hardware issues before moving 250 folks to D3.1.

As a father who works from home and is in IT too, I'm sticking to the 250 service. Frankly reliability is more important IMO then headline speeds. Even heavy users will rarely see benefit from a 1gig service IMO. But unreliability are crippling for your work process for things like VPN's, ssh, video calling, etc.

ED E

bk wrote: »

I really hope they resolve their hardware issues before moving 250 folks to D3.1.

Dont see it.

They bought the PUMA6. It was trash. Then they went ahead and bought PUMA7. If they gave a rats they'd have used something based on the BCM3390 (Netgear have the CM1000, CGA4233 from technicolour, Arris TG9442).


If I had the choice between 1Gb from Virgin and 80Mb from an xDSL, I'd choose xDSL. Right now its 1G vs 35ish Mb so its not worth moving.They're in bed with the PUMA7 for now, Ireland gets very infrequent hw updates, HUB4 will be the only option until 2024.

Roll on IFN.

kave2

Just rang VM. Upgraded to 500mbit package from 250mbit. 9 months half price. Great deal and it works already. Getting 500mbit on my phone.

CoBo55

kave2 wrote: »

Just rang VM. Upgraded to 500mbit package from 250mbit. 9 months half price. Great deal and it works already. Getting 500mbit on my phone.

How much?

kave2

CoBo55 wrote: »

How much?

9x35e, 3x70e

CoBo55

kave2 wrote: »

9x35e, 3x70e

BB only? Sorry I should have asked you earlier. I'm on 6 months half price 360 BB and phone. She couldn't remove the phone from the package the system wouldn't let her. Had she removed the phone I would have bumped up to 500.

kave2

CoBo55 wrote: »

BB only? Sorry I should have asked you earlier. I'm on 6 months half price 360 BB and phone. She couldn't remove the phone from the package the system wouldn't let her. Had she removed the phone I would have bumped up to 500.

I think phone is included however I don't think I ever used it. I was on 240 broadband before.