General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

CSF

Fitz* wrote: »

I don't think Klopp wants the TV deal changed. He hasn't asked for it.

He just asked that the teams who are picked for Saturday 12.30 are not clubs that have played Wednesday night and will be playing the next midweek again. Pick the team that played Tuesday night, or not at all in midweek.

There are only 7 instances from the start of the season until January that any team can play midweek & weekend. CL weeks make up 6 of these. So 6 clubs basically have the chance to play Wednesday - Saturday 12.30

And of that 6, it's only 3 possible times it can happen because of the Tuesday/Wednesday split. And that is only if Sky don't pick that game.

BT have purposely picked the team that has played the Wednesday night to be on the Saturday 12.30 kick off 4 times out of the 7 possible times when other teams were available. And always when the top 6 team is away from home.

Liverpool 2
Man United 1
Man City 1

Another example the week that BT have picked Liverpool for the 12.30 game v Palace, after Liverpool play Wednesday night. In the same game week Chelsea & Wolves both play the Tuesday night midweek but we're not picked to play again until the following Monday when they could easily have played the 12.30 game. It's a 2 day turnaround versus a 6 day turnaround.

I mean that’s a crazy suggestion. Why would BT intentionally pick a team who plays on the Wednesday? They pick the most commercially viable game available to them after Sky have chosen before them.

Shanotheslayer

Everton goal varred out correctly.

Just off

Fitz*

CSF wrote: »

I mean that’s a crazy suggestion. Why would BT intentionally pick a team who plays on the Wednesday? They pick the most commercially viable game available to them after Sky have chosen before them.

The UEFA games are set with the dates before the PL games are.

BT knew that Liverpool were playing Wednesday night before choosing them as their 12.30 kick off today. Just like they did with Man Utd & Man City before.

As for the future Palace - Liverpool game I'm not sure if they knew in advance but they still chose that game. Both clubs are playing on the Wednesday night.

Shanotheslayer

Good save by Messlier.

Shanotheslayer

Everton Varred again.

Interfering with play Infront of goal keeper.

Facking hell

Shanotheslayer

Leeds post.

Decent game so far for a neutral. Infruiating for me tho :pac:

Richard Hillman

There will be less scope to flex the schedules now that fans are allowed back.

Klopp has to take some responsibility himself for the injuries. He was playing pretty much a full team right up until the last few games of the season, after he had the league confirmed. On the last day of the season against Newcastle (who were playing for nothing too) he started Van Dijk, Robertson, Gomez, Keita, Milner, Wijnaldum. 4 of those are injured now. He even left the likes of Shaqiri and Harvey Elliott as unused subs, guys who needed/wanted game time.

They were one of the first teams back for Pre-Season. Liverpool played 4 games before the season started. The team they played today Brighton, played 1 game before the season started. Most teams played between 1-3 games. Liverpool had the community shield but even Arsenal only played 3 games. And the one of the biggest complaints from Klopp was that Pre-Season was not long enough.

Liverpools tactics involve the high press, always always pressing. They run amongst the most distance of any team. Liverpool are a very hard working team. The manager demands it.

Klopps tactics, his excess training, his refusal to rotate and make earlier subs have all contributed to his problems. I'm not saying it's either-or, they schedule of games is not good for them. But he is a just as much the cause for their issues as the congestion is.

Unfortunately for Liverpool, there is nobody at the club that will call him for it. No matter what walk of life you are in, if there is nobody to call you out on your errors then the future is bleak.

He has started to rotate the team, modify the tactics and He has to start using his U23s more.

CSF

Fitz* wrote: »

The UEFA games are set with the dates before the PL games are.

BT knew that Liverpool were playing Wednesday night before choosing them as their 12.30 kick off today. Just like they did with Man Utd & Man City before.

As for the future Palace - Liverpool game I'm not sure if they knew in advance but they still chose that game. Both clubs are playing on the Wednesday night.

I’m not suggesting they weren’t aware. But they’re not intentionally picking games from Wednesday teams. They’re picking the best game available to them, which is exactly what you would expect them to do.

No idea how BT out of everyone are made out to be the bad ones here.

yourdeadwright

Rock77 wrote: »

Ah now, come on..

it’s ok to not get the ball and kick the opponent in the box because..........???

It doesn’t matter what may have happened if Robertson didn’t connect! Lol

He didn’t get the ball, he kicked Wellbeck..

It was very similar to one given against Fernándes that was over turned,

davemckenna25

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It was very similar to one given against Fernándes that was over turned,

Except Fernandes got the ball first, so actually not similar at all.....

Fitz*

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There will be less scope to flex the schedules now that fans are allowed back.

Klopp has to take some responsibility himself for the injuries. He was playing pretty much a full team right up until the last few games of the season, after he had the league confirmed.

He has started to rotate the team, modify the tactics and He has to start using his U23s more.

Gonna snip your quote down to just these lines.

Resting players 4 moths ago in August is not going to prevent injuries as direct result of having to play 3 games in 7 days, with short turnarounds.

James Milner had to start all 3 games because of other injuries and the short turnaround and picked up a muscle injury. He was tested a lot at the end of last season after the title was wrapped up.

And as for the u23s - in case you haven't noticed but May Philips, Rhys Williams, Neco Williams & Curtis Jones have played a combined 8 games between this week alone. Those players are being given a chance.

I'm not sure how you can say that Klopp is not rotating enough when he made 5 & 6 changes for both the midweek & weekend game this week.

Rotation options are practically gone now with all the injuries.

TAA injury meant Neco Williams & Milner were being used as the RB. Milner is now injured so Neco is going to have to play every game.

VVD & Gomez are injured, along with Matip's current issue which means Fabinho is forced to play every game. He had his own injury too. Both Matip & Fabinho need to manage their game time but have to play every other game because of the depleted options across the pitch.

Tsimikas was injured for 7 weeks so Robertson had to play every game.

Thiago, Henderson, Keita & Ox have all being injured for the last 6 or 7 weeks, or longer so the only fit midfielders were Gini, Jones & Milner. They are being forced into playing every game. Milner is now injured so that increases the burden on Jones & Gini as Henderson is only just coming back from injury. Gini really needs a break but he can't get one as there are so many other midfielders injured and unavailable.

Shaqiri has been missing from games too as a hybrid midfielder / attacker and Salah / Mane both missing games too. The other attackers have to carry the burden of the team.

"Just play the u23"s.....they already are 3 or 4 playing every game. You can't just drop in 5 or 6 teenagers into first team football at the top end of PL or CL football and expect them all to find their feet instantly, and at the same time.

Mushy

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Leeds post.

Decent game so far for a neutral. Infruiating for me tho :pac:

Not good for the heart eh?

Shanotheslayer

Mushy wrote: »

Not good for the heart eh?

It's used to disappointment it's the hope that kills me

Mushy

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

It's used to disappointment it's the hope that kills me

Look at who ye are playing, not alone in that feeling

Rock77

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It was very similar to one given against Fernándes that was over turned,

The Fernandez one looked a penalty to me.

But your rationale for the Liverpool one is hilarious.

‘It shouldn’t have been a pen against Liverpool because of what might of happened if Robbo didn’t foul Wellbeck’

Just hilarious!

Agent Coulson

I wish I could bend down to my hunkers for 90 seconds never mind 90 minutes like a Bielsa.

Shanotheslayer

Mushy wrote: »

Look at who ye are playing, not alone in that feeling

At home to a promoted team from the Championship?

Shanotheslayer

Bamford goal disallowed.

Mushy

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

At home to a promoted team from the Championship?

And never an ounce of disappointment in those years

Shanotheslayer

Mushy wrote: »

And never an ounce of disappointment in those years

Ah I thought you referencing an Everton perspective my bad :pac:

Shanotheslayer

Mushy wrote: »

And never an ounce of disappointment in those years

Ah I thought you referencing an Everton perspective my bad :pac:

yourdeadwright

Rock77 wrote: »

The Fernandez one looked a penalty to me.

But your rationale for the Liverpool one is hilarious.

‘It shouldn’t have been a pen against Liverpool because of what might of happened if Robbo didn’t foul Wellbeck’

Just hilarious!

Contact alone does not mean its a penalty

Walton and the other ex prem ref both said to them it was not a penalty,

As they pointed out the ref goes over to the monitor to look for contact, but contact does not mean its a penalty both said the ref should look at the context of the contact

How many time shave we seen a player run into the box knock a ball to far ahead of himself that itll run out then they look for contact to go down for a ref to say no penalty,

Brighton players have said they didnt think it was a penalty,

Watch it in real time and youll see the touch on Welbecks foot from Robbo didnt impede him or chance the outcome of what was happing, Its not a foul, a foul is stopping or impeding someone doing what they are trying do Robbo touch did not do that at all

Shanotheslayer

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Contact alone does not mean its a penalty

Walton and the other ex prem ref both said to them it was not a penalty,

As they pointed out the ref goes over to the monitor to look for contact, but contact does not mean its a penalty both said the ref should look at the context of the contact

How many time shave we seen a player run into the box knock a ball to far ahead of himself that itll run out then they look for contact to go down for a ref to say no penalty,

Brighton players have said they didnt think it was a penalty,

What Brighton players said that? I haven't seen any say that can you send me on the link please?

yourdeadwright

One last thing could you imagine the uproar on social media if Salah or another Jonhnny foreigner on a top 6 side had of went down like Wlebck 3 steps after the incident and got that pen

Shanotheslayer

Raphina 0-1 great goal

RasTa

yourdeadwright wrote: »

One last thing could you imagine the uproar on social media if Salah or another Jonhnny foreigner on a top 6 side had of went down like Wlebck 3 steps after the incident and got that pen

Similar to if it was Salah, you'd be saying there was contact so it was a stonewall peno tbh

Rock77

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Contact alone does not mean its a penalty

Walton and the other ex prem ref both said to them it was not a penalty,

As they pointed out the ref goes over to the monitor to look for contact, but contact does not mean its a penalty both said the ref should look at the context of the contact

How many time shave we seen a player run into the box knock a ball to far ahead of himself that itll run out then they look for contact to go down for a ref to say no penalty,

Brighton players have said they didnt think it was a penalty,

Watch it in real time and youll see the touch on Welbecks foot from Robbo didnt impede him or chance the outcome of what was happing, Its not a foul, a foul is stopping or impeding someone doing what they are trying do Robbo touch did not do that at all

Dude, seriously... its as clear as day when you see the replays. When it happened live, I didn’t even notice it, I’m sure the Brighton players didn’t either (except Wellbeck, who looked for it straight away)

And your rationale is still all over the shop!

If the ball is down the other end of the field and the defender kicks me, it’s a pen.

y0ssar1an22

i don't understand this fixture congestion. league cup aside (if you wanna win it, fair play). serie a and la liga both have 38 games, have their cup competition and european games.

what's the difference?

You play the same amount of games in the year. Does a few hours (or a day, which you lose on the far side) really make that much difference?

crunching the numbers....league, fa cup and champions league = 57 games.
lose 90 through summer, and about 35 for internations leaves 240 days for the 57 games or a game every 4.2 days. which means playing wed, sun, thurs, monday, friday, tuesday, sat, wednesday; and repeat.

clubs and TV stations might like that. liverpool/utd playing in the league on a tuesday night would be pretty good for ratings i imagine. dont think managers would like this as they like the schedule of midweek/weekend.

so what are people's optimal solution to solve this issue?

i think i've drank too much :pac:

yourdeadwright

Rock77 wrote: »

The Fernandez one looked a penalty to me.

But your rationale for the Liverpool one is hilarious.

‘It shouldn’t have been a pen against Liverpool because of what might of happened if Robbo didn’t foul Wellbeck’

Just hilarious!

RasTa wrote: »

Similar to if it was Salah, you'd be saying there was contact so it was a stonewall peno tbh

I wouldn't actually, i dont want the game to go the way it is going
Feels lile there a couple of penalties every game its not right regardless of who there for

Shanotheslayer

That's a terrible miss by Leeds

Mushy

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

That's a terrible miss by Leeds

Thank christ was offside in the end

Shanotheslayer

Mushy wrote: »

Thank christ was offside in the end

Oh really? Thought he was just on. Thought Keane was keeping him on.

Thought it was Bamford on first view and the FPL manager in me was fuming he missed :pac:

Mushy

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Oh really? Thought he was just on. Thought Keane was keeping him on.

Thought it was Bamford on first view and the FPL manager in me was fuming he missed :pac:

The auld fierce late flag. Var would've had a look alright, probably tighter than linesman thought.

Now that's a bad miss!

Shanotheslayer

Leeds should have been out of sight at the end. Absolutely dominated 2nd half.

Great result for Leeds

Rock77

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I wouldn't actually, i dont want the game to go the way it is going
Feels lile there a couple of penalties every game its not right regardless of who there for

I agree and I’d rather goal line tech was used and that’s it..

But they are using the technology so the Brighton one is a pen by the letter of the law..

The one that gets me is a goal from a corner.. let’s say Brighton get a corner that’s clearly a goal kick and score from it.. clear and obvious error, why do phases of play matter?

Offside too, dodgy lines, millimetres, is the frame stopped when the ball is being played.. you can’t use var for that stuff.

yourdeadwright

Rock77 wrote: »

I agree and I’d rather goal line tech was used and that’s it..

But they are using the technology so the Brighton one is a pen by the letter of the law..

The one that gets me is a goal from a corner.. let’s say Brighton get a corner that’s clearly a goal kick and score from it.. clear and obvious error, why do phases of play matter?

Offside too, dodgy lines, millimetres, is the frame stopped when the ball is being played.. you can’t use var for that stuff.

I get what your saying but i dont think its the letter of the law,

I share your thoughts on the corner one its crazy
On the off sides they can't say if the freeze frame they are using is the exact moment the ball has left the passer foot which makes a huge difference,

They only issue with offside is there will always be ones to close to call no matter where you set the bar for instance of they gave you a 30cm leeway, there would be ones that are 31 or 29 on the leeway so its the same issue all over again

Everton 4 points from 18. Slump or just reverting to type?

Hats off to Leeds.

TheadoreT

6 wrote: »

Everton 4 points from 18. Slump or just reverting to type?

Hats off to Leeds.

The only manager that had them moving upward in the table last few years they booed out of the club thinking they were too good for his style of football. Must be laughing now.

TheadoreT

TheadoreT wrote: »

The only manager that had them moving upward in the table last few years they booed out of the club thinking they were too good for his style of football. Must be laughing now.

Better than Ancellotti??

TheadoreT

6 wrote: »

Better than Ancellotti??

Better for Everton, generally if you do the opposite to what the current trend is you'll tend to be successful, he didnt care about his reputation, just about doing optimal things to get results.

But Carlo is a tad overrated. Only won 1 league at Milan with arguably one of the best sides in modern football, they should have swept up titles.

Shanotheslayer

6 wrote: »

Everton 4 points from 18. Slump or just reverting to type?

Hats off to Leeds.

Reverting to type definitely.

2 of those defeats missing our best players.

This one against Leeds no excuses.

Shanotheslayer

TheadoreT wrote: »

Better for Everton, generally if you do the opposite to what the current trend is you'll tend to be successful, he didnt care about his reputation, just about doing optimal things to get results.

But Carlo is a tad overrated. Only won 1 league at Milan with arguably one of the best sides in modern football, they should have swept up titles.

Yeh we should definitely get rid of him and bring in Big Sam.

Carlo didn't have us moving up the table? We were top for a couple of weeks... His drop of points still has us quite comfortable challenging for top 4/7. We weren't near that previously

Rock77

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I get what your saying but i dont think its the letter of the law,

I share your thoughts on the corner one its crazy
On the off sides they can't say if the freeze frame they are using is the exact moment the ball has left the passer foot which makes a huge difference,

They only issue with offside is there will always be ones to close to call no matter where you set the bar for instance of they gave you a 30cm leeway, there would be ones that are 31 or 29 on the leeway so its the same issue all over again

You think a defender has the right to kick an attacker in the box and it not be a penalty?

If the defender doesn’t get the ball and clearly kicks the attacker it’s a penalty, it doesn’t matter what may have happened if the foul wasn’t committed.

yourdeadwright

Rock77 wrote: »

You think a defender has the right to kick an attacker in the box and it not be a penalty?

If the defender doesn’t get the ball and clearly kicks the attacker it’s a penalty, it doesn’t matter what may have happened if the foul wasn’t committed.

I agree with what you said above but thats not exactly what happened here,

If Welbck had knock it past Robbo then i agree but he didnt he flicked onto Robbos standing foot and at the same time Robbo touched Welbeck foot m

I think it was more of a coming together
Two ex prem ref on tv (walton & cant remember the 2nd) both thought it was not a penalty

But i understand its not black or white

~Rebel~

TheadoreT wrote: »

The only manager that had them moving upward in the table last few years they booed out of the club thinking they were too good for his style of football. Must be laughing now.

Wait... are you seriously making the case that Big Sam was a better manager for Everton than Carlo Ancellotti? I think Everton fans were losing the will to live during that period to be honest - during his time there they were ranked 20th for total shots, 19th for total shots on target, 16th for passing accuracy in the league. I'll give you that he's a pragmatist and will you get you midtable, but christ, at what cost! I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find an Everton fan who'd ever want to return to that style of football.

Guy:Incognito

Surely Wilder isn't going to last much longer?

y0ssar1an22

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Surely Wilder isn't going to last much longer?

was last year a huge fluke? i know most pundits had them as a sure thing to be relegated last season.

pjohnson

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

was last year a huge fluke? i know most pundits had them as a sure thing to be relegated last season.

Henderson and O'Connell being out seems to have completely shattered Wilders entire tactical system.

yourdeadwright

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Surely Wilder isn't going to last much longer?

Didn't nt he take them up from Divison 1,
Itll take a lot more for them to sack him

~Rebel~

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Surely Wilder isn't going to last much longer?

Would be harsh enough... he massively overachieved getting them up, and keeping them up. They've had a rough time of it at the back, losing the Henderson loan, and then having long term injuries to Enda Stevens and especially Jack O'Connell.

It's one of those cases where they can't really say anyone else would do any better this season, but could do much worse if it comes to looking for promotion again next season.

In a way, I almost think they're expecting to go down this season. Their only spend of any significance was on a young championship level striker who was always going to struggle to score in the Premier League - but who could well make a huge difference in trying to come back up next season after a season bedding in. A bit like Solanke who struggled for Bournemouth in the Prem, but is now scoring important goals in the Champ.