General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

Father Hernandez

eigrod wrote: »

https://twitter.com/johncrossmirror/status/1333170270329311233?s=21

It'd be a disgrace if he got a ban for this. Such a non story. The term doesn't literally translate to English, what he is saying is a positive.

eigrod

eigrod wrote: »

https://twitter.com/johncrossmirror/status/1333170270329311233?s=21

If he has used a racist term, it's head in hands stuff. You kinda wonder, when will players learn that Kick It Out and taking a knee before games are not just gestures and virtue signalling, the former is at least also about understanding the significance of words.

eigrod

Father Hernandez wrote: »

It'd be a disgrace if he got a ban for this. Such a non story. The term doesn't literally translate to English, what he is saying is a positive.

Closer to the Bernardo Silva one than Suarez by a Country mile. A one game ban i would think (same as Silva).

eigrod

Father Hernandez wrote: »

It’s closer to Bernardo than Suarez but it’s still a million miles away.

It’s a term for a friend for someone you really like, I speak Spanish. My in-laws use the term, it’s not a slur.

It’s a reference to skin colour, which is taboo now - the FA & Kickitout have zero tolerance on this now. We’ll see what they decide. I’d still say a one game ban.

The negligence of the Arsenal medical team this evening is a far more serious issue though.

Father Hernandez

eigrod wrote: »

It’s a reference to skin colour, which is taboo now - the FA & Kickitout have zero tolerance on this now. We’ll see what they decide.

It’s a reference to a term of endearment in a completely different language and completely out of context.

The word ‘negro’ is a racial slur in English and used as a slur. In Spanish it’s a completely different term.

I’d be shocked if he was ‘guilty’.

~Rebel~

Father Hernandez wrote: »

It’s a reference to a term of endearment in a completely different language and completely out of context.

The word ‘negro’ is a racial slur in English and used as a slur. In Spanish it’s a completely different term.

I’d be shocked if he was ‘guilty’.

You know that was the defence that was wrongly used for Suarez, right?

IMO context is key in both cases. Suarez used the harsher version of it that you mentioned above, and doing it on the pitch in England was completely unacceptable. Cavani using a similar and softer term on social media to a friend is different. But because he now plays in England and represents the Premier League in anything public he does, I could see a 1 game ban like the Bernardo Silva one, which was under similar circumstances.

Agent Coulson

Cavani deleted the post as he was told it could be deemed offensive according to MOTD 2.

Ridiculous if he gets a ban over that. Silva shouldn't have either. However, it was stupid. Cavani should know better at his age. A ban for stupidity rather than racism.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

You know that was the defence that was wrongly used for Suarez, right?

IMO context is key in both cases. Suarez used the harsher version of it that you mentioned above, and doing it on the pitch in England was completely unacceptable. Cavani using a similar and softer term on social media to a friend is different. But because he now plays in England and represents the Premier League in anything public he does, I could see a 1 game ban like the Bernardo Silva one, which was under similar circumstances.

The comparison to Saurez is embarrassing IMO

No context at all and the continued claim that Suarez said Negrito when it was proved he did not in an FA report is even more astonishing nearly 10 years on.

Same lads were in here earlier trying to compare both the scenarios and backed down quickly when they were called on it

It is latched on by a select few because liverpool had a **** weekend in the PL and it's a great auld story to deflect the pain.

Not all or anyone with a bit of sense mind you.

Social media will escalate this needlessly and led by Sky Sports now.

Utd should do the proper thing here and act accordingly and support the FA If they do react but in a sensible way.

I suspect a one match ban similar to Silva

evillive

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I didnt see the game but i heard a Wolves player got booled for diving in a similar incident to the Welbck /Robertson one, Gabriel supposedly made contact but Var did not over rule the ref?

Did anyone see it

Traore took on defender, some contact but he pretty much rode the tackle and was going down after it or when he saw the ball fizzing over the end line. Either way ref should have looked, seemed to be no look from var from the commentary. Penalties given for less, as it was an attempt to stop traore, yellow card should go to arsenal, wolves chance to go 3-1 up. Poor refereeing with the technology to hand. Nothing new to the Wolves there

tanko

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I didnt see the game but i heard a Wolves player got booled for diving in a similar incident to the Welbck /Robertson one, Gabriel supposedly made contact but Var did not over rule the ref?

Did anyone see it

Penalties have been given this season for tackles like that.
Oliver is a brutal ref, it didn't say if VAR said anything to the ref about it.

pjohnson

Between seeing Romain Grosjean survive his car being torn in two and exploding into a fireball followed by Joe Canning leaving Croke Park in a neck brace and then Raul Jimenez knocked unconscious and leaving the field I'm glad theres no more sport today.

Definitely saw my fair share of nasty incidents today.

~Rebel~

Deleted User wrote: »

The comparison to Saurez is embarrassing IMO

No context at all and the continued claim that Suarez said Negrito when it was proved he did not in an FA report is even more astonishing nearly 10 years on.

Same lads were in here earlier trying to compare both the scenarios and backed down quickly when they were called on it

It is latched on by a select few because liverpool had a **** weekend in the PL and it's a great auld story to deflect the pain.

Was it? Honestly, I just read through the thread, and didn't notice anything malicious like that... i saw someone ask if that was the word Suarez used... one person said yes, and then someone else clarified no, and that was kind of it? It seemed a pretty bland normal forum conversation with no digs of any sort (well, there were a few anti-liverpool ones involving tshirts and such, but i didnt see any anti-utd or anti-cavani ones)...

Not all or anyone with a bit of sense mind you.

Social media will escalate this needlessly and led by Sky Sports now.

Utd should do the proper thing here and act accordingly and support the FA If they do react but in a sensible way.

I suspect a one match ban similar to Silva

yup, most likely.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Was it? Honestly, I just read through the thread, and didn't notice anything malicious like that... i saw someone ask if that was the word Suarez used... one person said yes, and then someone else clarified no, and that was kind of it? It seemed a pretty bland normal forum conversation with no digs of any sort (well, there were a few anti-liverpool ones involving tshirts and such, but i didnt see any anti-utd or anti-cavani ones)...



yup, most likely.

Dont think so. Knew well what they were at. Didn't work out unfortunately.

Asking a question clearly knew the answer too.

Yep a one match ban is sufficient if that's the case.

mightyreds

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Was it? Honestly, I just read through the thread, and didn't notice anything malicious like that... i saw someone ask if that was the word Suarez used... one person said yes, and then someone else clarified no, and that was kind of it? It seemed a pretty bland normal forum conversation with no digs of any sort (well, there were a few anti-liverpool ones involving tshirts and such, but i didnt see any anti-utd or anti-cavani ones)...

Everything's a battle ground in here to some posters.

~Rebel~

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont think so. Knew well what they were at. Didn't work out unfortunately.

Asking a question clearly knew the answer too.

Yep a one match ban is sufficient if that's the case.

I mean, obviously they didn't, because it wasn't...

And I didn't see anyone "trying to compare the scenarios" - unless you literally mean asking if that was the word. Which i'm really not sure counts as comparison... and i didnt' see anyone deflecting using it as "a great auld story"... I saw people even when they thought it was the same word actively pointing out the very different contexts though...

I suppose my broader question about the way you see those messages, is do we always have to have this assumed maliciousness between fans of different clubs? Is it possible to take messages that don't have any malicious content at face value? Cause it's bloody exhausting in here sometimes, purely because of perceived slights.

Which folds neatly into this actual subject, of the risk of people making negative assumptions about other peoples public messages that perhaps were not there.

eigrod

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I mean, obviously they didn't, because it wasn't...

And I didn't see anyone "trying to compare the scenarios" - unless you literally mean asking if that was the word. Which i'm really not sure counts as comparison... and i didnt' see anyone deflecting using it as "a great auld story"... I saw people even when they thought it was the same word actively pointing out the very different contexts though...

I suppose my broader question about the way you see those messages, is do we always have to have this assumed maliciousness between fans of different clubs? Is it possible to take messages that don't have any malicious content at face value? Cause it's bloody exhausting in here sometimes, purely because of perceived slights.

Which folds neatly into this actual subject, of the risk of people making negative assumptions about other peoples public messages that perhaps were not there.

Very eloquently put 👏🏻

DeanAustin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't think they will stay there but do expect Spurs to pick up a trophy this year and finish in the CL places

They don't have the squad to match Liverpool and City over the duration of the season IMO to mount a real challenge but you never know if they can stay injury free

Spurs may not win the league but the squad is strong. Today they had Winks, Alli, Doherty, Alderweireld and Lamela not on the bench (Lamela and Alderweireld were injured) that comprised of Hart, Bale, Moura, Vinicius, Lo Celso, Sanchez and Davies. All internationals bar Vinicius who is a quality backup to Kane.

Spurs have more depth than pretty much anyone.

~Rebel~

DeanAustin wrote: »

Spurs may not win the league but the squad is strong. Today they had Winks, Alli, Doherty, Alderweireld and Lamela not on the bench (Lamela and Alderweireld were injured) that comprised of Hart, Bale, Moura, Vinicius, Lo Celso, Sanchez and Davies. All internationals bar Vinicius who is a quality backup to Kane.

Spurs have more depth than pretty much anyone.

Yeah, they've added really well over the past year - particularly to some major problem areas. And even having the bonus x-factor of Bale for the second half of the season if he can get fully fit and sharp. What an incredible guy to be able to unleash when the rest of the league is getting tired!

A lot of course comes down to Kane, and if he ends up missing his usual few months. But they're equipped to rest and rotate him a bit in a way they've never been before.

Cookiemunster

6 wrote: »

Ridiculous if he gets a ban over that. Silva shouldn't have either. However, it was stupid. Cavani should know better at his age. A ban for stupidity rather than racism.

Except that Cavani doesn't speak English and has never played in England before. How is it stupidity and how should he know better if he is unaware that the context of a word that is a term of endearment in his own language is seen as something else in a language he doesn't speak?

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I mean, obviously they didn't, because it wasn't...

And I didn't see anyone "trying to compare the scenarios" - unless you literally mean asking if that was the word. Which i'm really not sure counts as comparison... and i didnt' see anyone deflecting using it as "a great auld story"... I saw people even when they thought it was the same word actively pointing out the very different contexts though...

I suppose my broader question about the way you see those messages, is do we always have to have this assumed maliciousness between fans of different clubs? Is it possible to take messages that don't have any malicious content at face value? Cause it's bloody exhausting in here sometimes, purely because of perceived slights.

Which folds neatly into this actual subject, of the risk of people making negative assumptions about other peoples public messages that perhaps were not there.

Nothing obvious about it. It's easy enough to connect the dots. You can build a repertoire considering people post with the same name. Not that hard to believe.

You can see it in a positive light. That's on you also.

I would rather have a bit of a more realistic take on the reason it was posted.

DeanAustin

DeanAustin wrote: »

Spurs may not win the league but the squad is strong. Today they had Winks, Alli, Doherty, Alderweireld and Lamela not on the bench (Lamela and Alderweireld were injured) that comprised of Hart, Bale, Moura, Vinicius, Lo Celso, Sanchez and Davies. All internationals bar Vinicius who is a quality backup to Kane.

Spurs have more depth than pretty much anyone.

Think the quality for Spurs is overplayed here.

Comparing the squads directly with both City and Liverpool suggests they are still much stronger than Spurs.

It's a coping mechanism I believe for some

~Rebel~

Deleted User wrote: »

Think the quality for Spurs is overplayed here.

Comparing the squads directly with both City and Liverpool suggests they are still much stronger than Spurs.

It's a coping mechanism I believe for some

Their full squads, definitely. But with Liverpool absolutely slaughtered with injuries, and City regularly missing three key players in Aguero, Laporte, and Fernandinho, and something weird going on with Sterling, there's a little gap there for Chelsea or Spurs to take advantage of. Either would need to stay injury free, and find a longer term consistency that they haven't shown yet under their current managers, but those injury woes mean it's more open than it's been in a few years.

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing obvious about it. It's easy enough to connect the dots. You can build a repertoire considering people post with the same name. Not that hard to believe.

You can see it in a positive light. That's on you also.

I would rather have a bit of a more realistic take on the reason it was posted.

Agh, it's just a bit of a shame though, eh? It basically means there will always be hostile responses to benign comments, with no chance of a bit of common ground in conversation. Feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

DM_7

okay folks, suggestions of posters acting in an unwelcome way to deflect/rise/bait start arguments etc should be done privately by reporting posts. Public suggestions are against our charter.

We can discuss the league instead.

DM_7

Sorry Arsenal fans.

I really liked Wolves first goal, after chat of the inverted wide players in Chelsea v Spurs and impact on the game for full backs by Neville it was nice to see a right sided player burst beyond the full back (a good one btw) for a cross and a goal following.

Shanotheslayer

Spurs and squad depth is not something I would associate with each other.

Their cover is probably good enough to challenge top 4 but their main men Kane and Son are irreplaceable.

Alli is a differently player now. Whatever happend to him. Such a massive fall. He was incredible for a season or two.

Id argue that Spurs had more depth attacking wise a few years ago when I was Son/Kane/Alli/Eriksen.

Hope Spurs do well always liked them. And the meltdown in here would be fairly comical :pac:

Agent Coulson

It looks like he will get a ban of some sort going by this piece in The Guardian as new guidelines were brought in at the start of the season so you would have to imagine all clubs and players would have been informed of these guildlines.

In the post – which was later deleted – the words “gracias negrito!” are used to thank a follower congratulating Cavani on his performance in the match at St. Mary’s.

Social media postings are covered by FA Rule E3, and if a comment is deemed to include a reference to a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race or nationality, then that will be regarded as a potential aggravating factor in any punishment. The rules also make it clear that the owners of social media accounts are responsible for any content posted from their account, whether by themselves or by a third party.

Additionally, deleting an inappropriate post does not necessarily prevent a sanction from being imposed. Last year, Manchester City’s Bernardo Silva was banned for one match after posting and then deleting a tweet comparing his teammate Benjamin Mendy to the cartoon figure on a brand of Spanish chocolate. If the FA decides to pursue the case it will write to Cavani in the next few days asking for his written observations. Any charge must be issued by next Monday.

The word in question – “negrito” – was the same one used by Cavani’s friend and Uruguay teammate Luis Suárez to Patrice Evra during a game between Liverpool and Manchester United in 2011. At the time, Suárez argued that the word was a term of endearment and not intended as a form of racial abuse. However, the FA’s disciplinary panel rejected this explanation, and Suárez was banned for eight matches.

At the start of this season, the FA issued fresh guidelines on racist language and behaviour on social media, with offences carrying a minimum ban of three matches. Manchester United were not available for comment on Sunday night.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/30/edinson-cavani-fa-investigation-social-media-instagram-post

Will I Am Not

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The word in question – “negrito” – was the same one used by Cavani’s friend and Uruguay teammate Luis Suárez to Patrice Evra during a game between Liverpool and Manchester United in 2011.

The Mandela effect.

gimli2112

UK's cyber security agency assisting Manchester United after attack

The UK’s cyber security agency is assisting Manchester United over a cyber attack earlier this month which has left the football club unable to yet fully restore its computer systems.
The Premier League club confirmed the hacking on November 20 and said it was not “aware of any breach of personal data associated with our fans and customers”.
As of Thursday night, club staff still did not have access to email, and some other functions were also unavailable.
The National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) is now assisting the team.
A spokesperson said: “The NCSC is aware of an incident affecting Manchester United Football Club and we are working with the organisation and partners to understand impact.

It's either Liverpool or the North Koreans

Quazzie

gimli2112 wrote: »

It's either Liverpool or the North Koreans

I know Klopp went off on one at the weekend, do you think this is why they're accusing him or Kim Jong-un?

DeanAustin

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Spurs and squad depth is not something I would associate with each other.

Their cover is probably good enough to challenge top 4 but their main men Kane and Son are irreplaceable.

Alli is a differently player now. Whatever happend to him. Such a massive fall. He was incredible for a season or two.

Id argue that Spurs had more depth attacking wise a few years ago when I was Son/Kane/Alli/Eriksen.

Hope Spurs do well always liked them. And the meltdown in here would be fairly comical :pac:

Are Mane and Salah replaceable? Aguero looks like he isn’t at City, Jesus is a pale imitation.

Kane or Son get injured and you still have Bale, Moura, Alli, Vinicius, Lamela and Bergwijn to cover those positions. Do Liverpool and City have those sorts of options? And they’d be very unlucky to lose Son and Kane together so you’d have to assume that one of those will be available too.

I think there’s a bit of a status quo bias with Spurs at the moment (“sure Spurs can’t challenge coz they are Spurs and their squad has always been weak beyond the first eleven”). They have the squad to challenge. Whether they will or not remains to be seen but most of the pieces seem to be in place.

Wuff Wuff

hope he has a speedy recorvey,

very nasty injury

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1333339893406310401?s=20

yourdeadwright

Wuff Wuff wrote: »

hope he has a speedy recorvey,

very nasty injury

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1333339893406310401?s=20

Horrific injury for the fella

Remember the lad at Hull think he was ex Spurs , something Mason he had to retire from a similar one very very sad to see ,

An injury like that could literally change your life ,
Fingers crossed he comes back stronger ,

DM_7

Raul has had surgery and hopefully he will recover well.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55125293

Wolves striker Raul Jimenez has had surgery on a fractured skull suffered in a clash of heads during his side's Premier League win at Arsenal.

Sunday's match at Emirates Stadium was in its early stages when Jimenez and Gunners defender David Luiz accidently collided at an Arsenal corner.

He was given oxygen on the pitch before being taken to hospital.

"Raul is comfortable following an operation last night," Wolves said in a statement.

"He has since seen his partner Daniela and is now resting. He will remain under observation for a few days while he begins his recovery.

"The club would like to thank the medical staff at Arsenal, the NHS paramedics, hospital staff and surgeons who, through their skill and early response, were of such help."

The game was stopped for around 10 minutes to allow Jimenez, 29, to receive treatment before he was carried off the pitch on a stretcher.

"You start hearing 'code red'," Wolves boss Nuno Espirito Santo said.

"It was a bad moment. What was the reaction? Panic, panic panic. You could see the faces on the team-mates. It was a serious situation. It's awful and terrible."

Nuno's Arsenal counterpart Mikel Arteta said he knew "something really bad is happening" from the reaction of the players.

Brazil centre-back Luiz, 33, played on with a bandage wrapped around his head before being substituted at half-time.

Speaking on Match of the Day 2 about the decision to allow Luiz to continue playing, former England striker Alan Shearer said: "Football needs to get real and wake up. It needs to get serious, not next month, now. This has been going on for far too long. The [concussion] protocols in football are not acceptable."

eigrod

Wuff Wuff wrote: »

hope he has a speedy recorvey,

very nasty injury

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1333339893406310401?s=20

Awful. Best wishes to him.

Shanotheslayer

DeanAustin wrote: »

Are Mane and Salah replaceable? Aguero looks like he isn’t at City, Jesus is a pale imitation.

Kane or Son get injured and you still have Bale, Moura, Alli, Vinicius, Lamela and Bergwijn to cover those positions. Do Liverpool and City have those sorts of options? And they’d be very unlucky to lose Son and Kane together so you’d have to assume that one of those will be available too.

I think there’s a bit of a status quo bias with Spurs at the moment (“sure Spurs can’t challenge coz they are Spurs and their squad has always been weak beyond the first eleven”). They have the squad to challenge. Whether they will or not remains to be seen but most of the pieces seem to be in place.

Aguero has missed long periods before and they definitely had the cover their. Sterling played there plenty of times and was scoring for fun.

Although none are replaceable the options those teams have I would think are significantly better. The only reason I'm not discussing Bale is given the past few years etc I have no idea if he's still a good footballer nowadays :pac:

Liverpool also have a baller in Jota who has stepped up to the plate to rotate with Salah/Mane.

Saying they have the squad to challenge, what are you basing that on?

Lamela 16 goals 159 games
Moira 15 goals 82 games
Alli 50 goals 158 games( a lot of those goals were probably a couple of years ago)
Berg 3 goals 20 games

Those spread of goals are very thin. They have a good and what looks to be a youngish squad. I think they can get a cup this year and maybe next year with an additional signing or two mount some sort of challenge.

Spurs won't win the league if Kane misses a good chunk of the season.

He'll get 25+ league goals if he plays full season.

DM_7

DM_7 wrote: »

Raul has had surgery and hopefully he will recover well.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55125293

Brazil centre-back Luiz, 33, played on with a bandage wrapped around his head before being substituted at half-time.

This stuff has to stop. I don't understand why head injuries aren't taken more seriously.

Father Hernandez

6 wrote: »

This stuff has to stop. I don't understand why head injuries aren't taken more seriously.

Football seems to be so backward in comparison to other sports with head injuries.

No reason why they can't introduce a head injury sub or similar to allow David Luiz the time to see how he is and not rush him back onto the field.

Him coming off at HT proves there was no way he should've been back on the pitch.

I think there is a serious lack of player compassion in the PL. Injuries, unbelievable amount of games, shít KO times right afetr European action, etc.

I think there's a feeling of, well they're paid enough money so don't be complaining. They're not robots.

eigrod

It may seem like fantasy now, but I wonder will ‘scrum caps’ become compulsory in football and rugby at some point in the future.

yourdeadwright

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Football seems to be so backward in comparison to other sports with head injuries.

No reason why they can't introduce a head injury sub or similar to allow David Luiz the time to see how he is and not rush him back onto the field.

Him coming off at HT proves there was no way he should've been back on the pitch.

I think there is a serious lack of player compassion in the PL. Injuries, unbelievable amount of games, shít KO times right afetr European action, etc.

I think there's a feeling of, well they're paid enough money so don't be complaining. They're not robots.

Arteta said Luiz passed all the tests and wanted to go back on ,
So what do you do ?

The point on the amount of games and so on I agree is a money grab and its killing players,

Loafing Oaf

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Spurs and squad depth is not something I would associate with each other.

Their cover is probably good enough to challenge top 4 but their main men Kane and Son are irreplaceable.

Alli is a differently player now. Whatever happend to him. Such a massive fall. He was incredible for a season or two.

Id argue that Spurs had more depth attacking wise a few years ago when I was Son/Kane/Alli/Eriksen.

Hope Spurs do well always liked them. And the meltdown in here would be fairly comical :pac:

Here's a brilliant article about the Mourinho renaissance. Didn't even know this guy was a writer as well as a presenter
Tommy Martin: Wherever he misplaced it, Jose Mourinho has his famous mojo back

By now, a year in, the jig was supposed to be up. He would have fallen out with Harry Kane, put Moussa Sissoko up front, and wheeled Nemanja Matic in on a gurney.

It should be full trainwreck mode at this stage. Tantrums and tiaras. Sneering at the little people in press conferences. Gloria Swanson in a tracksuit: I am still big, it’s the clubs that got small.

Father Hernandez

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Arteta said Luiz passed all the tests and wanted to go back on ,
So what do you do ?

The point on the amount of games and so on I agree is a money grab and its killing players,

I think he passed the current protocols but they're asking if they are the correct protocols.

He was then taken off at HT so obviously wasn't feeling right yet passed original tests. IMO he was rushed back on because it was either that or play with 10 men. Bring in a rule for a head injury sub, allow a player to take his place, assess Luiz properly.

You can't take David Luiz's word for it, any player will want to continue playing.

DeanAustin

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Aguero has missed long periods before and they definitely had the cover their. Sterling played there plenty of times and was scoring for fun.

Although none are replaceable the options those teams have I would think are significantly better. The only reason I'm not discussing Bale is given the past few years etc I have no idea if he's still a good footballer nowadays :pac:

Liverpool also have a baller in Jota who has stepped up to the plate to rotate with Salah/Mane.

Saying they have the squad to challenge, what are you basing that on?

Lamela 16 goals 159 games
Moira 15 goals 82 games
Alli 50 goals 158 games( a lot of those goals were probably a couple of years ago)
Berg 3 goals 20 games

Those spread of goals are very thin. They have a good and what looks to be a youngish squad. I think they can get a cup this year and maybe next year with an additional signing or two mount some sort of challenge.

You look at Liverpool beyond Mane and Salah:

Firmino - 59 in 185
Jota - 5 in 8 for Liverpool. 16 in 67 for Wolves.
Origi - 19 in 92
Shaqiri - 7 in 33

For City beyond Aguero and Sterling:

Mahrez - 22 in 68
Jesus - 43 in 104
Torres - 1 in 7

So City's look better but they are thin on options and Liverpool's look a big step down from Salah and Mane.

You also have to factor in for all these players that they have had stop/start careers, with lots of substitute appearances, at these clubs and a run of games could help them bolster their scoring averages. But as a Spurs fan, I'm very happy with what we have in the attacking areas, we have options in midfield (Lo Celso and Winks didn't start yesterday), cover for the full backs (Doherty and Davies didn't play yesterday). CB is my main concern but we've only conceded 1 in 5 and that goal shouldn't have stood. And yesterday was without Alderweireld with a rookie in his place against what was a free scoring team.

I'm not suggesting for a second that Spurs will win the league or that we are favourites or anything. But I think we're in the mix and it won't be squad depth that'll be our undoing.

TitianGerm

Father Hernandez wrote: »

No reason why they can't introduce a head injury sub or similar to allow David Luiz the time to see how he is and not rush him back onto the field.

.

And have a independent doctor make the call take the decision out of the clubs hand.

AdamD

eigrod wrote: »

It may seem like fantasy now, but I wonder will ‘scrum caps’ become compulsory in football and rugby at some point in the future.

Scrum caps don't do anything for concussion, they protect your ears.

theoneeyedman

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I think he passed the current protocols but they're asking if they are the correct protocols.

He was then taken off at HT so obviously wasn't feeling right yet passed original tests. IMO he was rushed back on because it was either that or play with 10 men. Bring in a rule for a head injury sub, allow a player to take his place, assess Luiz properly.

You can't take David Luiz's word for it, any player will want to continue playing.

It's hard to tell really, there is no evidence at all that Luis was concussed, he didn't look dazed at all afterwards, but he had a nasty gash on his forehead, which was the reason he was eventually removed.

I'd tend to trust the medical professionals that attended him, rather than an ex pro looking for notice on the TV frankly - as I say, no real evidence he was concussed.

Now, whether any head impact means you have to go off is another discussion entirely, but where does that stop in a game where heading is a big part of it, e.g. should Danny Welbeck have had to go off when Fabinho butted him on Saturday?

Hope Jiminez is OK - a fractured skull can mean different things, usually means a tear or a bleed on the lining between the brain and the skull casing. Can be serious if pressure builds up.

gimli2112

TitianGerm wrote: »

And have a independent doctor make the call take the decision out of the clubs hand.

In fairness to clubs they have appropriate medical profesionals who cater for the players welfare. After all it's why Mourinho got sacked from Chelsea.

eigrod

AdamD wrote: »

Scrum caps don't do anything for concussion, they protect your ears.

They provide a level of protection to large areas of the head (not all areas). Peter Cech wore one for that reason hacving come back from a serious head injury following the Hunt challenge. The type he used are the type I mean.

Nerdlingr

John Egan was another one there recently, in the international v England, took a whack to the head and you could see was in no fit condition to carry on. Did anyway and got subbed a few minutes later.
Its about time football took it more seriously.
The medics need to be making decisions that player welfare is their first priority.
Reminds me of the time Eva Carneiro ran on to tend to two injured players and Mourinho went ballistic. First thought in her head was not 'manging the game, or whatever excuse Jose used but the welfare of people in her care.

Wish Jimenez a speedy recovery. horrible incident for him, hopefully he can come back from this but when you look at what cech had to go through and the fact Jimenez is such a predominate header of the ball its difficult to see how its going to work out.