General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

Kiith

I love tactical fouls, but they have to be carded. Breaking up play at the right time with a foul should be a perfectly valid tactic, but refs need to ensure that it's not happening constantly. If everyone gets booked immediately for it, it will happen very rarely.

As for the Kane stuff, players have been backing into each other for decades, and will continue to do it till its reviewed by the refs. You know something is wrong when something that would be a yellow in rugby wins a foul in football.

gimli2112

Shearer and Sutton I believe. I'd google it for the exact stats but then y'all think I'm cleverer than I am.

atilladehun

rob316 wrote: »

Time to end this taking the knee it's lost all meaning at this stage and just become part of the pre match routine. I would broadly agree with the Millwall supporters group too that BLM is a political movement and shouldn't be part of football. Time for the PFA to come together and think of some other way.

I think this is the wrong end of the stick. It doesn't take a second and every time someone boos it proves the point that it's needed. When every single fan doesn't really notice it and chats away then it's lost its effectiveness.

What does a black person who has been abused feel when people support it? Hopefully that they're not alone, and not hated. How do they feel when it's booed? Probably a reminder that there's still people who will actively do things to make them feel less.

Racism has always existed and there's been billions of instances of it in the history of the world. It's going to need millions of actions to correct it so all these things will need to add up. It won't be gone in my lifetime, but I hope by the end it's better than it is now. Where you say find another way, I would say add another approach.

The argument that BLM is political is a thinly veiled way to discredit anti racism. BLM is not all of anti racism. Lots of people who are anti racist will say things that can be criticized over the years. By all means challenge the specifics of what they say if you believe it to be wrong bit don't get caught up with the likes of Millwall fans who was to use those flaws to eradicate anti racism.

pjohnson

gimli2112 wrote: »

Shearer and Sutton I believe. I'd google it for the exact stats but then y'all think I'm cleverer than I am.

Pires and Henry I thought?

McFly85

What City are really good at doing is making these fouls look fairly innocuous, more like a coming together or a half hearted attempt(but attempt nonetheless) for the ball-fouls that the ref is probably thinking would be very hard to justify a yellow for. Maybe 3 fouls should automatically result in a yellow(3 more being a red). Would allow teams to pick and choose their moments but not have the game dominated by it.

gimli2112

pjohnson wrote: »

Pires and Henry I thought?

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-greatest-strike-partnerships-of-the-premier-league-henry-shearer-cole/

found this, Newcastle surprisingly well represented and not an Andy Carroll in sight. I think the stat we're talking about is goals where one assisted the other. I thought it was SAS but Pires and Henry would be a good shout too.

Liam O

McFly85 wrote: »

What City are really good at doing is making these fouls look fairly innocuous, more like a coming together or a half hearted attempt(but attempt nonetheless) for the ball-fouls that the ref is probably thinking would be very hard to justify a yellow for. Maybe 3 fouls should automatically result in a yellow(3 more being a red). Would allow teams to pick and choose their moments but not have the game dominated by it.

There should be a third card imo for these. Minor deliberate infractions and there is 3 to a sending off. Most times they're not bad enough for a yellow but still clearly a deliberate foul. Also could incorporate simulation into it. Won't happen but sure it's an idea.

DM_7

'Tactical fouls' in other sports are a sin bin which is a significant penalty.

Deliberate knocking the ball down in Rugby for example is often a professional file.

The current rules in soccer mean it would be foolish to not use the tactical foul. A possible free yellow and free nowhere near the goal is not enough of a penalty to stop teams using the tactic.

A sin bin would sort out the transition type fouls, but I am not convinced that referees in soccer would be able to make an appropriate decision that requires reading and understanding of the game though. If they were then every foul like that would already be getting a yellow anyway.

ERG89

DM_7 wrote: »

'Tactical fouls' in other sports are a sin bin which is a significant penalty.

Depends who is doing it, New Zealand got away with a ridiculous amount of blatant tactical fouling for years giving away penalties to avoid conceding tries but would get away with it

In the GAA the use of black cards is at best inconsistent so when anyone is through on goal teams always foul just outside the box. There is on average 20-30 scorable frees in most hurling matches now but f**k all cards being given to go with that many fouls.

klose

Has kanes thuggery (and it is, just try and defend that its not, go on I'm listening) been pointed out in the mainstream media yet or is still just twitter accounts posting about it? Because it will be interesting if managers start to point it out, if I was managing a team playing spurs next I'd be having a word with the ref to keep an eye on kane when this sort of foul happens.

Fitz*

klose wrote: »

Has kanes thuggery (and it is, just try and defend that its not, go on I'm listening) been pointed out in the mainstream media yet or is still just twitter accounts posting about it? Because it will be interesting if managers start to point it out, if I was managing a team playing spurs next I'd be having a word with the ref to keep an eye on kane when this sort of foul happens.

The irony is, the best manager currently in a PL job to call out his actions, is Mourinho!

In terms of Spurs next games, I don't think that Hodgson will point it out. And I wouldn't think that Klopp would say anything, unless provoked into it via a direct question on it. Can't see Rodgers or Nuno creating an issue around it.

The media won't call him out on it as he is English and their captain. Even look at the reaction to Coast's dive last night which has got no media attention, or Grealish last week and compare it to Salah or any other Johnny Foreigner. Kane is "being clever" in his actions. He is not being dangerous according to media.

Maybe if it happens again soon, the act can't be ignored.

gimli2112

they certainly have no issue calling a Sengalese or an Egyptian a diver or call out Uruguayans for their racism (allegedly)

AdamD

McFly85 wrote: »

What City are really good at doing is making these fouls look fairly innocuous, more like a coming together or a half hearted attempt(but attempt nonetheless) for the ball-fouls that the ref is probably thinking would be very hard to justify a yellow for. Maybe 3 fouls should automatically result in a yellow(3 more being a red). Would allow teams to pick and choose their moments but not have the game dominated by it.

I think this is a good point, the obvious shirt drag backs are nearly always booked. Its the bodychecks/coming togethers that have the same intention and effect that players sometimes get away with

Brendan Flowers

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I know. I beleive Man U fans will be rooting for Liverpool for the same reason....

Some people will try to spin this narrative, while the truth is a lot of Utd fans still hold Jose in high regard. It didn't work out for him at Old Trafford. These things happen. But he seems to have found a new lease of life at Tottenham (possibly back living in London has helped). And I think it'd be an huge achievement for him if he could ever win a title managing Spurs.

8-10

I still think Chelsea are the ones to beat this season. At the start of the season I thought Chelsea would be second to Liverpool but after a few weeks I changed my prediction to Chelsea winning the league

Potential Underachiever

8-10 wrote: »

I still think Chelsea are the ones to beat this season. At the start of the season I thought Chelsea would be second to Liverpool but after a few weeks I changed my prediction to Chelsea winning the league

Still think it will be Liverpool or City, Chelsea and Spurs are doing very well at the minute but it's just a touch early to say whether they can last the pace.

Fitz*

8-10 wrote: »

I still think Chelsea are the ones to beat this season. At the start of the season I thought Chelsea would be second to Liverpool but after a few weeks I changed my prediction to Chelsea winning the league

At the moment, I don't think so. They haven't beaten a top half team this season yet. Their next 7 or 8 games are against top half sides, and Arsenal, so we'll know more then. If they win a few of those games and are still at the business end of the table, then I will reassess my view!

Drumpot

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Still think it will be Liverpool or City, Chelsea and Spurs are doing very well at the minute but it's just a touch early to say whether they can last the pace.

I think that prob should be the top 4.

Spurs - Jose looks a new man and happy at spurs , best most effective manager in the sport when he’s happy

City/pool - the last 4 years both have won the league by a country mile from the nearest teams outside of these two

Chelsea - over quarter of a billion has to be factored in with expectations

United - There isn’t really many reasons why we should make the top 4. Some blame the manager but every United manager has been accused of not getting the most out of whatever squad they have had at any given time over the last 7 years. How good is this United squad? Every year our squad is supposedly better on paper then we get on field. It’s an expensive squad but that’s partially because of how poorly our transfers and contract extensions are done.

Maybe Ole isn’t good enough, but the only difference I’m seeing from most seasons is better football and a better capacity to get back into games we were losing. We are no further from winning a league now then we were anytime the last 7 years with different levels of managers. If Ole gets us into the top 4 it will be a great achievement given the competition this season.

yourdeadwright

Drumpot wrote: »

I think that prob should be the top 4.

Spurs - Jose looks a new man and happy at spurs , best most effective manager in the sport when he’s happy

City/pool - the last 4 years both have won the league by a country mile from the nearest teams outside of these two

Chelsea - over quarter of a billion has to be factored in with expectations

United - There isn’t really many reasons why we should make the top 4. Some blame the manager but every United manager has been accused of not getting the most out of whatever squad they have had at any given time over the last 7 years. How good is this United squad? Every year our squad is supposedly better on paper then we get on field. It’s an expensive squad but that’s partially because of how poorly our transfers and contract extensions are done.

Maybe Ole isn’t good enough, but the only difference I’m seeing from most seasons is better football and a better capacity to get back into games we were losing. We are no further from winning a league now then we were anytime the last 7 years with different levels of managers. If Ole gets us into the top 4 it will be a great achievement given the competition this season.[/QUOTE


United squad on paper is far better than Spurs
Ole replaced the current Spur's manger who wasn't good enough for United,
There is no reason Spurs should finish ahead of Untied on paper I'd say the same for Chelsea ,

Is Chelsea squad better than United's ?

It should not be seen as a good achievement for Ole to make top four (he came 3rd last year)
Its the opposite if Ole doesn't get top four he should be sacked

,

El Gato De Negocios

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Some people will try to spin this narrative, while the truth is a lot of Utd fans still hold Jose in high regard. It didn't work out for him at Old Trafford. These things happen. But he seems to have found a new lease of life at Tottenham (possibly back living in London has helped). And I think it'd be an huge achievement for him if he could ever win a title managing Spurs.

For me personally, I think it would be fantastic to see JM and Spurs win the league however not for any kind of altruistic reasons. If they did it with him in charge it a MASSIVE bloody nose for Ed Woodward and Uniteds hierarchy. It will mean that United is the only club that Jose did not win a league title. He had his legs cut from under him in the summer of 2018 and jose doing jose things hit the self destruct button rather than eat shyt from the powers that be. They (United board) made a deal with the devil and welched on it despite him getting the best points tally and league position since SAF left.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Some people will try to spin this narrative, while the truth is a lot of Utd fans still hold Jose in high regard. It didn't work out for him at Old Trafford. These things happen. But he seems to have found a new lease of life at Tottenham (possibly back living in London has helped). And I think it'd be an huge achievement for him if he could ever win a title managing Spurs.

Fair enough so where do the Cehslea fans stand then?!

rob316

I'll sit up and start taking Spurs deadly serious if they can go to Anfield on the 16th and get a result. Only one team has managed it in the last 32 games and the champions were on holidays at the time.
Spurs look really good though and most importantly Jose is happy.

Spurs won't get a better time to play Liverpool tbh.

Contests have been even enough in recent times at Anfield.

El Gato De Negocios

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

For me personally, I think it would be fantastic to see JM and Spurs win the league however not for any kind of altruistic reasons. If they did it with him in charge it a MASSIVE bloody nose for Ed Woodward and Uniteds hierarchy. It will mean that United is the only club that Jose did not win a league title. He had his legs cut from under him in the summer of 2018 and jose doing jose things hit the self destruct button rather than eat shyt from the powers that be. They (United board) made a deal with the devil and welched on it despite him getting the best points tally and league position since SAF left.

Spurs look a better fit for Mourinho. Utd were expecting him to win leagues or at least challenge. He wasn't at the races and squandered a lot of money on sub standard players. Does Woodward gets a larger % of the blame for this? Depends who you talk to. Any Utd fans I know couldn't wait to see the back of Jose. I know I was personally sad to see him leave as an opposition supporter!

The pressure at Spurs is tiny in comparison. Their last trophy was 2008. Any silverware would be a success tbh. Top 4 and a fa cup would be excellent for Spurs. The league title would be glorious for them.

cj maxx

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Some people will try to spin this narrative, while the truth is a lot of Utd fans still hold Jose in high regard. It didn't work out for him at Old Trafford. These things happen. But he seems to have found a new lease of life at Tottenham (possibly back living in London has helped). And I think it'd be an huge achievement for him if he could ever win a title managing Spurs.

Or managing a team and not having to constantly hear about playing 'the utd way' and a md who knows to leave the football side of things to the professionals and not stick his oar in at every bad result.

doc_17

Mino Raiola has just said in an interview that it’s over for Pogba at Man Utd. On the eve of a massive CL match.....no class there.

doc_17

doc_17 wrote: »

Mino Raiola has just said in an interview that it’s over for Pogba at Man Utd. On the eve of a massive CL match.....no class there.

Must be a transfer window coming up... Oh yes, there is!

Pogba leaving would be a good thing for every party. An expensive flop. Not sure how much he'd go for now? £50m?

gimli2112

I think Utd will improve when he leaves. No doubt there's talent there but he's such a distraction and his on field output hasn't been anywhere near consistent enough.

DVDM93

I think Jose is being genuine here, a class act.

https://twitter.com/footballdaily/status/1335659605536464897?s=20

JPA

DVDM93 wrote: »

I think Jose is being genuine here, a class act.

https://twitter.com/footballdaily/status/1335659605536464897?s=20

If I was Mikel Arteta or an Arsenal fan I'd have 2 words for Jose.

I'd be praising him too if I was the manager of their biggest rivals!!

Agent Coulson

Jose praising him for playing right into his hands.

ERG89

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Jose praising him for playing right into his hands.

You will only ever discover how a manager feels about another manager after he loses to him. Other than that all you'll hear is that he's a great lad who is doing a great job.

~Rebel~

DVDM93 wrote: »

I think Jose is being genuine here, a class act.

https://twitter.com/footballdaily/status/1335659605536464897?s=20

Even aside from wanting competing teams to not make changes when they're struggling, I always see these kinds of comments as; "Manager calls for other manager to be given more time in industry where managers get sacked a lot".

It always just feels like a statement that up front is supportive, but in practice is probably a bit more self serving, effectively backing themselves for when the bad times inevitably come.

tom1ie

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Drumpot wrote: »

I think that prob should be the top 4.

Spurs - Jose looks a new man and happy at spurs , best most effective manager in the sport when he’s happy

City/pool - the last 4 years both have won the league by a country mile from the nearest teams outside of these two

Chelsea - over quarter of a billion has to be factored in with expectations

United - There isn’t really many reasons why we should make the top 4. Some blame the manager but every United manager has been accused of not getting the most out of whatever squad they have had at any given time over the last 7 years. How good is this United squad? Every year our squad is supposedly better on paper then we get on field. It’s an expensive squad but that’s partially because of how poorly our transfers and contract extensions are done.

Maybe Ole isn’t good enough, but the only difference I’m seeing from most seasons is better football and a better capacity to get back into games we were losing. We are no further from winning a league now then we were anytime the last 7 years with different levels of managers. If Ole gets us into the top 4 it will be a great achievement given the competition this season.[/QUOTE


United squad on paper is far better than Spurs
Ole replaced the current Spur's manger who wasn't good enough for United,
There is no reason Spurs should finish ahead of Untied on paper I'd say the same for Chelsea ,

Is Chelsea squad better than United's ?

It should not be seen as a good achievement for Ole to make top four (he came 3rd last year)
Its the opposite if Ole doesn't get top four he should be sacked

,

What United players would get into the spurs squad?

Unearthly

ERG89 wrote: »

You will only ever discover how a manager feels about another manager after he loses to him. Other than that all you'll hear is that he's a great lad who is doing a great job.

It reminds me of when Fergie became very friendly and complementary to Wenger, when Wenger stopped challenging for titles

Agent Coulson

Good to Ings back on the bench for Southampton after that knee injury looked so bad.

TitianGerm

tom1ie wrote: »

What United players would get into the spurs squad?

De Gea, AWB, Maguire, Fernandez would all start. Rashford would be close on the LW position.

If Pogba ever bothered his arse he'd probably get into most teams but his attitude is a joke.

TheadoreT

Wellbeck only turned 30 last week, feels like he's been past it for far too long for a player that age.

Kiith

Yeah sorry, i just don't see how United have a better squad then Spurs. Maybe on paper, but clearly not on form.

TitianGerm wrote: »

De Gea, AWB, Maguire, Fernandez would all start. Rashford would be close on the LW position.

If Pogba ever bothered his arse he'd probably get into most teams but his attitude is a joke.

Sorry, but i'd have Dier on current form over Maguire all day long. And Toby is far better then both. Also Lloris.

AWB and Bruno for sure, but i'd still be picking Son over Rashford.

TitianGerm

Kiith wrote: »

Yeah sorry, i just don't see how United have a better squad then Spurs. Maybe on paper, but clearly not on form.


Sorry, but i'd have Dier on current form over Maguire all day long. And Toby is far better then both. Also Lloris.

AWB and Bruno for sure, but i'd still be picking Son over Rashford.

De Gea is a better keeper than Loris. Mcguire is also a better CB than Dier. He's not worth £80m but that doesn't mean he's not better.

You could play Rashford, Kane and Son up top.

Trouser Snake

TitianGerm wrote: »

De Gea, AWB, Maguire, Fernandez would all start. Rashford would be close on the LW position.

If Pogba ever bothered his arse he'd probably get into most teams but his attitude is a joke.

Maguire would only replace Sanchez in Spurs back line, I'd have Tobey, Dier, Tangana and maybe soon Rodon ahead of him.
De Gea yeah, AWB ahead of Reguilon not a hope, Fernandez yeah, Rashford ahead of Son!!! You're having a laugh.

Rashford would work with Son and Kane just from your last post, would oust Moura or Bergiwn.

TheadoreT

TitianGerm wrote: »

De Gea is a better keeper than Loris. Mcguire is also a better CB than Dier. He's not worth £80m but that doesn't mean he's not better.

Not on form they're not. You cant have it all ways. But If it's just based on peak ability Bale gets in all day along with Kane and Son.

Spurs easily have the better XI and squad.

PhlegmyMoses

Jesus, let's give it a minute before we start going over the top with Spurs players. Apart from Kane and Son, a lot of these guys were having a tough time for a good 12-18 months. The usual knee jerk of conflating current form with overall quality going on.

TheadoreT

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Jesus, let's give it a minute before we start going over the top with Spurs players. Apart from Kane and Son, a lot of these guys were having a tough time for a good 12-18 months. The usual knee jerk of conflating current form with overall quality going on.

They were in a Champions league final and finished higher than United in 3 of the last 5 years and higher this year. It's not knee jerk in the slightest that they're a fair bit better.

Kiith

TitianGerm wrote: »

De Gea is a better keeper than Loris. Mcguire is also a better CB than Dier. He's not worth £80m but that doesn't mean he's not better.

You could play Rashford, Kane and Son up top.

I'd love to play Rashford, Son and Kane up top. Sure we'll take him.

I would take Lloris as he's playing right now, but i do think De Gea is overall a better keeper. I'm mainly taking form at the moment though, hence why so few Utd players get in for me.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Jesus, let's give it a minute before we start going over the top with Spurs players. Apart from Kane and Son, a lot of these guys were having a tough time for a good 12-18 months. The usual knee jerk of conflating current form with overall quality going on.

As above, on form, most Spurs players are the better choice. Scoring more, and defending better.

TitianGerm

TheadoreT wrote: »

They were in a Champions league final and finished higher than United in 3 of the last 5 years and higher this year. It's not knee jerk in the slightest that they're a fair bit better.

And United still won more in those 5 years. They also have one of the worst managers in the league and finished above Spurs last season. If Spurs were a fair bit better that wouldn't have happened.

Kiith

TitianGerm wrote: »

And United still won more in those 5 years. They also have one of the worst managers in the league and finished above Spurs last season. If Spurs were a fair bit better that wouldn't have happened.

To be fair, we sacked our manager year, so we beat Utd there too :P

adox

Trouser Snake wrote: »

AWB ahead of Reguilon not a hope

AWB plays RB not LB!

TitianGerm

Kiith wrote: »

To be fair, we sacked our manager year, so we beat you there too :P

I don't support United.